Edl Yobbo Day Out In Bradford

[dalsingh101]

Worth a watch brothers. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIr3HV-TuOs&feature=player_embedded

[chatanga1]

the edl were always suspected of being racists, which they denied but now they arent even bothering to hide it.

[SURYADEV]

....so who were the baddies? Both sides were behaving like yobbos to me. The isreali flag waving nazi's on one side and the athiest commies(kaffirs)/muslims on the other.

[dalsingh101]

Someone showed how when you click on an EDLer in Facebook, almost all have openly NF or BNP 'online friends'.

Can't see how going into towns mob handed and trying to intimidate all and sundry is really helping to fight Islamists myself?

Just seems like another outlet for that seemingly innate aggression of the 'Angry-Saxons'. Makes a change from fighting over football I guess.

ENG - ER - LAND! lol

[dalsingh101]

....so who were the baddies? Both sides were behaving like yobbos to me. The isreali flag waving nazi's on one side and the athiest commies(kaffirs)/muslims on the other.

Why do you need to define it as such?

You have to grow out of this 'goodies/baddies' concept. They are both probably tossers.

That being said, far right groups did provoke the riots in Bradford last time. Plus the court system threw the book at all the browns afterwards with the longest sentences possible. The filth (cops) over there are barely concealed nazis themselves apparently, typical retarded Northerners. Come on, you know these people, they probably see the EDL lot as 'our lads'.

Personally, I don't have an issue with people defending their hometowns from mobs of gora yobs. Saw a bit of that growing up myself.

[tonyhp32]

Why do you need to define it as such?

You have to grow out of this 'goodies/baddies' concept. They are both probably tossers.

That being said, far right groups did provoke the riots in Bradford last time. Plus the court system threw the book at all the browns afterwards with the longest sentences possible. The filth (cops) over there are barely concealed nazis themselves apparently, typical retarded Northerners. Come on, you know these people, they probably see the EDL lot as 'our lads'.

Personally, I don't have an issue with people defending their hometowns from mobs of gora yobs. Saw a bit of that growing up myself.

Did the NF also provoke Muslims to attack Sikh and Hindu shops in Bradford? It's good the court system threw those tossers in jail. The EDL is the outcome of a frustration when the goray see Muslims trying to take over the country with their sharia BS. The mainstream parties have let the white working class down and so they see another outlet for their frustration. Mind you, I have to agree with the EDL guy saying most of the muslay should be in Guantanamo, never a truer word said.

[dalsingh101]

I hate to say it Tony. But that's exactly why you'd be as useful in combating kuttarh sullay as those EDL guys.

I suppose you'd support the blanket bombing of all sullah land next? Screw the women and children too huh?

I'm no fan of Islam but the way you appeared to have absolutely dehumanised every last one is a sickness in itself.

By the way, you think it is okay for whites to 'cover' their own thugs through the court system? What a typical peasant.

Edited August 31, 2010 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

I just had to share this with you guys.

Hilarious! One punch KO.

Edited September 4, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

Stop lionising rioters and thugs. The courts handed out sentences and some were later reduced by the court of appeal. What do you expect when thugs take the opportunity of a Paki getting stabbed outside a club and then use that to commit their usual mayhem by burning down legitimate businesses like car showrooms? What do you think of these thugs parking burning cars outside the exits of the working men's club and then setting it on fire? Isn't that arson at best or attempted murder at worst? What would you have had the judiciary do? Hand out community service order? I for one am glad the judiciary decided to pass sentences appropriate to the crimes. I suggest you stop reading the Guardian or the Socialist Worker and educate yourself that these rioters weren't innocent victims but criminals.

I don't say every Muslim should be in Gitmo, I agreed with that EDL guy who was referring to a baying mob of Muslims.

Edited September 4, 2010 by tonyhp32

[dalsingh101]

I agreed with that EDL guy who was referring to a baying mob of Muslims.

They (EDL and the 'baying' Muslims), look like different sides of the same coin to me. Those EDLers are mainly the typical brainless, nazi saluting type of yob gora you meet all over the working class world.

And it is hilarious to see one getting clumped out like that.

Truth is, those sullay can defend their areas quite well. We could actually learn a thing or two from that. Which is a sad state for a so called 'warrior' race. That isn't lionising thugs and rioters but facing facts.

PS - You need to stop getting your own information from The Daily Mail?

Edited September 4, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

I'm sure you'll be able to find a youtube video of a Paki getting bashed by a gora during the march that is unless youtube hasn't removed it due to 'islamophobia'! Whatever the yobbishness of the EDL they are reacting to the actions of Muslay who abused the returning soldiers in Luton. They might be going to far when marching in Musla areas like Bradford and their lack of preparation to take on the baying muslay shows they are just a knee jerk reaction rather than a carefully thought out plan.

I think your sympathy to the muslay here is more to do with your previous experience of racism from the police and goray and the events of the 70s and 80s such as Southall riots and the newham 7 and 8. The facts are that the southall protesters never went and smashed down their town and burn businesses like the bradford rioters did. It's interesting that you didn't choose to comment on the fact that Sikh and Hindu businesses were attacked by these rioters. Is that protecting your community? Well, maybe by musla beliefs they were protecting their community by burning kafir businesses. You views seem to be coloured by your experiences of the 70s and 80s but your are still viewing the acts of Muslims of today when they are in an aggressive phase with the Muslims of the 70s and 80s who as usual to their mentality kept a low profile due to their being then a very small minority.

[Mithar]

Between racist Goray and extremist Muslay, Sikhs should not be choosing any side. If both get a chance BOTH will show their true snake mentality and sting the Sikhs with their poisonous hatred. Yes, we know extremist Musley are not good, but knowing that does not mean these racist Goray are all of a sudden good. Just take a look at what apnay have to do through in Australia when racist Goray have their way, they are just as evil as extremist Pakistani muslay.

Choosing the side of racist Goray because of our hatred for extremist Muslay is just as naive as how many of our own become pro Hindu because they are anti-Muslay, or how many of apnay became pro-Muslay all of a sudden after 1984. We need to stop choosing sides and just stay neutral and watch the show when these opposing sides are fighting each other.

[dalsingh101]

You have some valid points there Tony with regard to changes in the sullah community over the periods mentioned. Let's be frank here though, the changes have mainly [or solely?] been in the Pak community really haven't they? I'm not saying we definitely wont see similar changes in future with other sullay subquoms, but right now, that insular, outwardly aggressive, contemptuous, tribal mentality is mainly associated with people in the community mentioned. Especially when it comes to targeting Sikhs. For contrast, go to Edgware Road, a predominatly sullah area, and compare it to Luton, Walthamstow or Bradford - Pak dominated places. How different are they and the people there? You're not even being strategic in identifying pressing problems over potential long term ones.

My general point to you is that neither of these people are really our true friends, goray supremacists or yobs or these kaffir hating sullay. If you talk about the 'nature' of sullay, then I find it unbelievable that you ignore the nature of 'goray' or at least that Anglo ideology which is just as detrimental to us, albeit in a less direct and forwardly violent manner. Maybe your caste bias and people's history of looking up to Anglos as your own leaders and role models (and that across many generations) plays a part in your (mis)conception?

In any case brother, we have to ask, and squarely face the inconvenient question (to our egos) of "why the eff have our lot become soft as shite, disorganised and disjointed and converting to this, that and the other whilst our 'cousins' across the border have organised and strengthened themselves to be able to throw their weight around and defend themselves in a competent manner?"

Our own lot have a lot to answer for by buying into some false sense of security manufactured by others (goray) and placing themselves in a potentially compromised position - if your analysis of sullahness is correct.

PLUS - for God's sake, we have now had numerous occasions as a quom to learn exactly where this setup leads to in the worst case scenario with partition, with 1984, currently with Sikhs in Afghanistan, in NWFP etc. etc. So our leadership in the UK(whoever the hell that is??) has serious answering to do.

In all of this, the biggest 'stupids' seems to be our lot. You can carry on blaming sullay for all our problems but that is just totally relegating any agency we have to carve our own halat and destiny in the world (as a panth), in my eyes. Plus you don't even seem to be able to identify potential issues beyond the blatant ones screaming and chest beating in your face. You, know, take another brother's advice now and then and see issues broader than the sullah threat too. We are old schoolers who've seen a bit in our lives unlike the average young puppo of today. And don't think I haven't directly, up close and personally, seen the worst of those sullay you talk about. I saw how a handful of ਏਸ ਪੀ munday, dealt with those types and had them running. These EDL goray knobs in their thousands can't even do that.

Besides, ਜੇ ਗੋਰੇ ਤੇ ਸੂਲੇ ਇਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਾਲ ਲੜ ਪੇ, ਫੇਰ ਕੀ? ਜੇ ਗੋਰੇ ਕਰ ਸਕੇ, they would have us do their dirty work for them, just like they always have. Your history seems to make you think this is not a big deal, it is to me. Let them fight it out - that way, God forbid but if we have to fight in future, let them waste their energies on each other first. That is EXACTLY how our ancestors strategised.

ਸਾਨੂੰ ਦੋਨੋਂ ਨੂੰ ਕਮਜ਼ੋਰ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਈਦਾ.

I don't have any affection for any side unlike yourself. Be sootantar and focus on why the hell we have become a quom of pajamas in the UK and reversing it without fake macho crap. I mean we've always had pupoos, but good God Tony, look at the new generations, even the gubroo ones have no heart...

We should be learning and replicating (in a modified form) what our brothers did around Hazoor Sahib for the best future in the UK. Be nobodies kooti. Especially a feringhees.

Plus please stop ducking the issue, tell me exactly what got us into our current super-pajama state.

Edited September 6, 2010 by dalsingh101

[SURYADEV]

As an aside, Dalsingh you mentioned SP and how they sorted the mulse out 'back in the day'.

Bought up in brum I've only ever heard of them as a street gang and only come across their SP graffiti on shop shutters.

WHo were these people, what did they do,what was their purpose and maybe more relevant to us today where are they today?

[dalsingh101]

Not worth blabbing about on the Internet Jattboot.

Suffice to say, it turned into a thing with groups all over the place. Some of the groups in certain areas gained a good reputation for what they did, some apparently didn't.

[tonyhp32]

Ok so what exactly is the difference between say the EDL smashing up some Paki shops in Bradford and the SP going to Chalvey and re-enacting the 'Road to Basra' with smashed up Toyotas and Nissans? How should goray act to the Musla threat? What actions by goray would you consider legitimate in this issue rather than a manifestation of their Anglo ways? Are Goray inherently racist so any anti-Musla action by them should be seen as gradually being converted into an anti-Sikh action when the time is right? Lots of questions but what I am getting at is that do you see all resistence to Musla influence by the goray as basically driven by racism rather than by a desire to also protect their own and their culture? The EDL may be racist but they are a manifestation of the gora desire to preserve their culture. The politicians have failed the goras and they now jump into whatever organisation they think is working to save their culture.

I hope you haven't cast me as one of the puppos. I've lived through the late 70s in this country and I was in Southall when the NF came to visit in '79. The received wisdom amongst apnay was that 99% of all goray were racists. the 1% were the Socialist Workers types who would stand with the Asians in fighting against the racist goray. All Asians were equal and stood be united. Now jump a decade on and it was the Muslims that brought their religion into the picture. They were the first to break away from the Asian label and ironically cling to it when some their is something negative in their community and they want to disguise it by taking the asian label.

What I believe is that not all goray are racists. Not even the majority but all Muslims are anti-Kafirs. Now you might think that Arabs aren't as bad as Pakis or Turks have no issue with Sikhs but if there were sizable minorities of Sikhs in these areas then there would be an issue. No all Arabs are extremists as are not all Turks but there is a latent hatred of Non-Muslims which will ignite at any time against Kafirs.

The answer to all this is to see the situation that is developing and make sure that Sikhs are ready in case of a flare up. This is why Gurdwaras should be setting up martial arts classes for the Sikh youth. You made a snide remark about the way my ancestors loyally served the British but by serving the British they were able to maintain their own martial traditions as well as gain knowledge of modern weaponry and tactics. How would the Sikhs have fared in responding to the Muslay in 1947 had there not been lakhs of Sikhs trained in the British Indian army and not having had battle experience in the second world war? It was due to these demobilised soldiers that Sikhs were able to clear East Punjab of Muslims and create space for the refugees from West Punjab. This is why the Sikh regiment in the British Army was such a good idea. No doubt you would gave scoffed at Singhs going fight the 'white man's wars' but the training of these Singhs would have kept us in good stead in any future flare up.

[Mithar]

The last part by Tony Jee was a good point. The direct consequence of Sikhs joining the British army in large numbers is that Sikhs became very battle hardened and even though they were such a small minority in united Punjab(only about 15%), yet they managed to clear all of east Punjab of the Muslims, Otherwise it is very likely that Sikhs would have ended up like the Kashmiri Pandits. Although I must say that killing of Muslims in 1947 was very unfortunate (I really wish it didn't happen) but seeing as how our own people were kicked out in 1947 by Pakistani first, it almost became necessary to do likewise so the Sikh refugees could settle down in east Punjab.

[laalsingh]

'47 reaction was late, but was almost complete, ruthless and fast. 30% population and rulers for centuries, gone in few months.

[dalsingh101]

Ok so what exactly is the difference between say the EDL smashing up some Paki shops in Bradford and the SP going to Chalvey and re-enacting the 'Road to Basra' with smashed up Toyotas and Nissans? How should goray act to the Musla threat? What actions by goray would you consider legitimate in this issue rather than a manifestation of their Anglo ways?

How can you even compare the two? EDL are using the platform of defending their own countries imperialism via their soldiers, as some excuse to beat their chests indignantly about Islamists in UK. Whitey is as guilty as Abdul on the point of going into other countries and trying to impose their own belief/value systems on them as we can see in Iraq. The point that this is THE very thing EDLers are accusing sullay of in the UK is lost on them because they are generally dumb and semi-literate, going by the videos you see of them marching through this or that town. So before they open their mouths they need to check their own society for doing exactly what they complain of. No use crying over what sullay do, when their own lot are doing the same. Plus another big difference between the two groups you mention above is that one had a very high proportion of educated people involved, not the dreg scum of Saxon society.

What happened in Chalvey was the result of sustained, prolonged antagonistic behavior towards Sikhs from that quarter, it was a direct, focused reaction to that. Not randomly going to anywhere where large pockets of Paks existed and sabre rattling like twats - EDL style.

You ask how goray should react to the Musla threat. Well, hows about not going to their lands interfering and training them in the first damn place?

Are Goray inherently racist so any anti-Musla action by them should be seen as gradually being converted into an anti-Sikh action when the time is right?

Like I said, I truly believe you have some deeply rooted cultural imperative to look up to goray in a twisted way. I'm not being snide when I say that, it's something that one can see today from certain quarters, as well as in our recent history. Basically you become an apologist for them due to easily discernible historical reasons. Have you ever considered that we sometimes need to break from the past and not justify what happened today, so as to not end up in the same boat again? I'm not being insulting here, just saying how it is, with the hope that this strange adulation of goray from some apnay ends soon. These people ARE more chuust than us as a quom and WILL find a way of using us if given a chance. Simple.

Lots of questions but what I am getting at is that do you see all resistence to Musla influence by the goray as basically driven by racism rather than by a desire to also protect their own and their culture? The EDL may be racist but they are a manifestation of the gora desire to preserve their culture.

Seriously.....

Which sullay are stopping goray from learning, speaking and promoting English? Note how EDL types are the ones who generally can't be bothered to read their own literature regularly or even pass qualifications in 'their' language.

Which sullay is stopping white people from doing say......Morris dancing? No one, they are ashamed of it themselves.

Is anyone stopping them being Christian or COE? Nope, they disregard their religions themselves.

Are they being asked to wear alien clothes? Nope.

Are they being prevented from getting pissed up on a weekend. Answer X

Is anyone telling whites they are not British/English etc.? No.

So you've lost the plot a bit there Tony and bought into the whole BNP bullshit about them losing their culture. They aren't by any stretch of the imagination but the way you believe they are is yet another clear example of why the hell we need some distance from these people and their lies. Don't buy into them.

The politicians have failed the goras and they now jump into whatever organisation they think is working to save their culture.

Don't act naive, on the eve of the Iraq war, plenty of goray were boosted about what their leaders were doing openly, they thought they were going to bring back their glory empire days. Now those ones are complaining because their plan flopped and they want to blame someone. Had things gone to plan, they would've been really pleased with themselves. God is breaking the backs of the ahankari, witness yourself. Plus all that imperialist bad karma has to come back to them one day....I think we will live through some of that time possibly.

Their culture doesn't need saving as I said before, they just ignore it and do whatever they please and blame everyone else for their problems.

And I'm not casting you as a pappu, and I acknowledge what you say about changes in the Pak community not sullay in general but Paks okay.

What I believe is that not all goray are racists. Not even the majority but all Muslims are anti-Kafirs.......there is a latent hatred of Non-Muslims which will ignite at any time against Kafirs.

This is where we disagree. I think you've got it wrong about goray and they are more racist than they let on, I'm not saying every one is, but a lot more than are open about it are, and it is a feature of their nature/culture. They might give you preference whilst you are useful to them, and that is what trips up most Jatts I guess, past and present.

As for Abdul, I don't think every or most sullay are anti-kafirs but what does happen when the jihadis start to 'roll' is that the others shite their pants and keep a low profile, frankly because we know those jihadis wouldn't blink to knock off one of their own that is dissenting - as can be seen all over the place where jihadis are doing their 'thang'. So I think you're not grasping the dynamics of what goes on in a society when that type of stuff happens.

Your last paragraph covered some very important areas that require serious attention. I'm going to comment on that separately a bit later.

Edited September 7, 2010 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

Guys I'm no fan of Islam myself but look at this guy, Guramit, leaders of the EDL. This is just way too much gora yob phudhu culture, not good......

He's quite offensive so if you're of a naram patola disposition, better not to watch the brief clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5YrJUaG1T8

Edited September 7, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

The last part by Tony Jee was a good point. The direct consequence of Sikhs joining the British army in large numbers is that Sikhs became very battle hardened and even though they were such a small minority in united Punjab(only about 15%), yet they managed to clear all of east Punjab of the Muslims, Otherwise it is very likely that Sikhs would have ended up like the Kashmiri Pandits. Although I must say that killing of Muslims in 1947 was very unfortunate (I really wish it didn't happen) but seeing as how our own people were kicked out in 1947 by Pakistani first, it almost became necessary to do likewise so the Sikh refugees could settle down in east Punjab.

Yes, the events were sad and unfortunate but the Muslim attitude was that they could take the whole of Punjab and even Delhi and resurrect the Mughal empire. In West Punjab there were no attacks on Muslims apart from self defence in areas where non-Muslims were a majority such as Nili Bar and Nankana Sahib tract. The same cannot be said of Muslims in non-Muslim majority areas. Many Sikhs and Hindus were killed in Amritsar before the Jathas got involved. When they were cut up by the Jathas, these same Muslims then acted as if they were innocent victims and demanded protection from the military. In the Bet area of Jagraon tehsil the Muslims who were in a majority attacked Sikhs going through their area. If the Jathas hadn't acted the likelihood is that like you said the Sikhs would have been a minority in East Punjab with agressive Muslims treating them like the Kashmiris treat the Pandits. The Jathas were mainly demobbed soldiers who had gained battle experience during the 2nd world war. There have also been studies done which state that soldiers of the state armies of the Sikh states in civilian dress were dispatched into East Punjab to clear the area of Muslims.

[tonyhp32]

Dalsingh101

Although you have some valid points yet your points are then lost when you continue to accuse goray of still having imperial ambitions and being inherently racist. Do you think the majority of the goray, living off benefits, committing anti-social behaviour and living in many of the sink estates in this country really care for bringing back the British Empire? As for the middle classes, millions turned out and joined hands with Islamists who incidently would not have thought twice about cutting off their heads, protesting against the Iraq invasion.

Incidently instead of being imperialists even those arch racists the BNP want the troops out of Afghanistan. So at least you have something in common with the BNP! The EDL are not so naive to think that they can force Muslims to prove their loyalty by cheering on the returning troops, all they wanted was that Muslims should not be accusing them of being 'child killers' and 'rapists'. No doubt you will bring some case where iraqi kids might have died or even rape but by and large the British army was professional in it's role in these two countries. I remember debating this issue on another forum with a left wing liberal Sikh who made statements such as 'the british army is raping and pillaging in Iraq'

You don't have to be a repressed minority to think that your culture is in danger. Gora culture is not all about drinking, sha**ing and brawling. Goray, even the middle class are feeling that their culture of freedom of speech, freedom of expression, women's rights and even gay rights is in danger from Islam.

[dalsingh101]

The answer to all this is to see the situation that is developing and make sure that Sikhs are ready in case of a flare up. This is why Gurdwaras should be setting up martial arts classes for the Sikh youth.

That needs to be the very least that should be done. We also need to grasp why the papu mentality has become so prevalent in the community. Physical training is an important aspect but we also need to nail that psychological one. Recently you guys may have seen this video that has been floating about by a young brother from Coventry whose family were soldiers (albeit in British army) for a good few generations. You couldn't basically argue that he had not came from a long military background. When I saw the video I was really saddened in that the guy's experiences in the UK seems to have severely knocked his confidence and this was plainly visible in how he carried himself and spoke. What is the lesson to learn? That you can't rely on some genetic boon for warriorship, we need to create the right environment for it. Right now, Niddar looks like he is doing the best job out there in that department, despite beliefs that many mainstream folk would find a bit much (to say the least). I was just thinking to myself anyway, if things ever got ugly, then we would really realise what is important and not and I imagine a lot of the theological/ideological things we argue over would become non issues overnight.

You made a snide remark about the way my ancestors loyally served the British but by serving the British they were able to maintain their own martial traditions as well as gain knowledge of modern weaponry and tactics. How would the Sikhs have fared in responding to the Muslay in 1947 had there not been lakhs of Sikhs trained in the British Indian army and not having had battle experience in the second world war? It was due to these demobilised soldiers that Sikhs were able to clear East Punjab of Muslims and create space for the refugees from West Punjab. This is why the Sikh regiment in the British Army was such a good idea. No doubt you would gave scoffed at Singhs going fight the 'white man's wars' but the training of these Singhs would have kept us in good stead in any future flare up.

I hear what you are saying but this is a double edged sword (the bad kind!) for us. Plus I don't know Tony, from what I hear, a good few of those regiments were far from Panjab giving whitey a send off home whilst Panjab burnt. Plus you seem to let goray off 'Scot free' with what happened in those days. BTW, no one is judging what our lot did (well not me anyway), it was horrible position to find ourselves in. No doubt demobbed soldiers played a part in resistance, but you should also consider that our ancestors generally did pretty well defending our people in our homeland (sure some set backs occurred like the ghallugaras), without any training and help from goray.

Bottom line, in practical terms is that there are other ways of defending ourselves without jumping on the 'Brit' bandwagon which has its own implications in that this army doesn't seem to be faring too well of late for whatever reason. Goray just simply can't go around gallivanting around the globe like tossers anymore. Which is no bad thing. This isn't simply down to changes in attitude by the public but pure practicality and ability in the militarys part. Plus, keep up, they have even more cuts planned in future. We do need to be very careful of hitching our wagon to white misadventures. It just doesn't wash to be their storm troopers in the 21st century. I think it demonstrates some bizarre sort of deference for apnay to even want to do this, in this day and age. Last thing we want is a conspicuous role in widely unpopular conflicts. I guarantee you there will be a hard backlash against apnay for it.

If it kicks off here, it will start with street level tit for tat stuff, so speaking hypothetically, that is what needs to be prepared for, if anything. You can already see Abdul brawlers smacking Johnny English around, they've been on point about protection and preparation for a long time. What have our lot been doing in the meanwhile? Acting like fools over caste and materialistic stuff like we famously do.

About partition: I had family involved in both aspects of the conflict with one saving lots of sullay with a friend and some ....you know. It wasn't any military training that helped any of these but rather being tough, mainly through daily hardcore physical labour and for one at least, shaster vidya (maybe it was gatka?)

We must break this mental dependence on goray and cut our own path one day. Or we will never develop capable leadership of our own.

About your last post: Sure, goray's imperial desire may be attenuated or dampened these days but never forget these guys only operate with an eye on their own 'interests' nothing else. Whatever happened in the past has happened and we need to learn from it. The next big step in our quom's evolution is going to be the post colonial phase, we need to make a break from the past for this and go in alternative directions that safeguard our own interests, instead of yet again, being guard dogs for others interests for paltry sums.

It's our destiny.

You don't have to be a repressed minority to think that your culture is in danger. Gora culture is not all about drinking, sha**ing and brawling. Goray, even the middle class are feeling that their culture of freedom of speech, freedom of expression, women's rights and even gay rights is in danger from Islam.

That is not our problem. Middle class people are the idiots responsible for making decisions that led to the unifying of sullay who were otherwise at each others throats in any case. Under the current circumstances our priority needs to be making ourselves strong enough to withstand attacks. From anyone. Why is it that I sense some sort of lack of imagination on your part to even envisage that we are capable of this without goray? I have a theory that it is possibly related to deeply ingrained conceptions of what you may perceive to be the relationship between your forefathers and goray colonialists. And I'm being straight up, not snidey. You need to snap out of it, we can't be sending this message to our youth, or they may end up like this type of idiot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5YrJUaG1T8

Edited September 10, 2010 by dalsingh101