Sikh-Muslim Couple Gets Cover

[kdsingh80]

CHANDIGARH: In a first, inter-religion live-in partners have got security from the Punjab and Haryana High Court after religious heads refused to solemnize their marriage unless they converted to one religion.

That left them with the only option of marrying under the Special Marriage Act, which requires their parents to be informed.

This has posed danger to their lives as their families are opposed to their marriage. Jagroop Ali and Kulwant Kaur of Moga district in Punjab sought protection from the high court.

The couple, who decided to settle into a live-in relationship after refusing to convert, was granted legal protection from the girl's enraged parents.

Kulwant, who belongs to Jat Sikh community, and Jagroop Ali left their village on June 22 because Kulwant's parents were unwilling to allow their marriage.

Both of them approached gurdwaras and mosques to solemnize their marriage, but both refused as they belonged to different religions. Kulwant and Ali then pledged to live together for life.

Apprehending threat from Kulwant's family, the couple moved a petition before the high court on Wednesday. Hearing the couple's plight, Justice Daya Chaudhary asked the SSP, Moga and other respondents to ensure their life and liberty.

Read more: Sikh-Muslim couple gets cover - Chandigarh - City - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/Hindu-Muslim-couple-gets-cover/articleshow/6482615.cms#ixzz0yS8gLJUg

[SURYADEV]

why is the threat always from the girls family?

[kdsingh80]

why is the threat always from the girls family?

Because These type of cases mean izzat of Girl's family gone forever .They become laughing stock in the eyes of everyone.It is like social Death for them

Edited September 3, 2010 by kdsingh80

[SURYADEV]

Ahh the old 'faux-izzat' garbage again.

izzat only goes when they start issuing death threats against another human and those persons are forced to look outside for protection that their own kin refuse to give them. Au contraire they become rakash to her.

Truth be told. her (and maybe his) days are numbered. she may as well start reading her Kirtan Sohila!

Bete noire of indian advancement.

[Mithar]

The Muslim guy should know better than to mess around with a Sikh girl. I hope he gets caught by the girl's family.

[kdsingh80]

Ahh the old 'faux-izzat' garbage again.

izzat only goes when they start issuing death threats against another human and those persons are forced to look outside for protection that their own kin refuse to give them. Au contraire they become rakash to her.

Truth be told. her (and maybe his) days are numbered. she may as well start reading her Kirtan Sohila!

Bete noire of indian advancement.

Well its easy to say that izzat is garbage but those who undergoes these type of trauma's Whether it is because of Girl or some another cause could understand.

Just tell me if this Girl has a sister do you think that any decent sikh family will want there boy to marry her.Forget about marrying even many will tell there daughters don't befriend her or don't go to her home even

[dalsingh101]

The Muslim guy should know better than to mess around with a Sikh girl. I hope he gets caught by the girl's family.

That sort of jazz has its place but how does it combat the deeper underlying causes of this type of behavior?

What is it about apneean that makes them so prone to this? Globally. It isn't lack of fear because Jatti over here is obviously scared and still did it.

[kdsingh80]

Well It is not only sikh Girls.Thousands of Hindu Girls too marry muslim men.

bollywood actresses are leading in this way

[dalsingh101]

So what do we do?

[kdsingh80]

So what do we do?

There is nothing sikh community can do apart from parents becoming strict

[tonyhp32]

I don't rate the Musla's chances and the girl's family always have the Musla's family to target before they get to him. Good hunting I say.

Is this connected in anyway with apnay helping to build mosques all over the place? There was one built recently in Ajitwal near Moga. That's what you get when you chumlah Muslay.

Edited September 3, 2010 by tonyhp32

[dalsingh101]

That's what you get when you chumlah Muslay.

Fair point. Now open your mouth about how we chumlah our own lot into thinking they are God's gift to earth, so they go on to do this self-centred stuff in the first place. I'm all ears.

Let's have some balance from you. Okay, a sullah being sullah we can't stop - but what about our own lot. At what point do we start to take some responsibility for the messed up actions of apnay and apneean? It's a cop out to just blame others. To easy and lazy and absolves us of any action. Tell me what where we go wrong in all this? And be realistic, don't suggest something that has no chance of happening.

That strictness thing isn't going to happen. We are famous for spoiling our kids rotten, which probably plays a big part in many of them turning out to be snakes like above.

Edited September 3, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

Chumlah of Muslay is the fault or our own and not their fault. So I wasn't criticising the Muslay, being aghirtghan is part of the DNA of a Muslim. Of course this is the fault of apnay, when you chumlah Muslay. As for the family of the girl, it is their fault that they didn't teach her any better and it is they who will suffer the loss of their honour.

Now what is my suggestions to stop this happening. For one, we should we strong enough to teach our kids the truth about what Muslims and Islam is like. No doubt this will give the Islamophiles here a heart attack, but if you look historically how were we able to stop these things happening in the past. There was the restricted freedom given to women and then there was the non-PC attitude about Muslims. Ask anyone over 50 and they will tell you what Muslims and Islam is like. Now compare this with kids in nappies who think Islam is 'peeesse' just because they have some Muslim friend who tells them Islamic BS. Restricting the freedom won't work so giving them the truth about Islam is the next step.

[dalsingh101]

What your suggesting generally doesn't seem to work at all from what I've seen. I think evolutionary factors override all of this in practice, so an apnee couldn't really give a crap about how evil sullay are if her needs are met. If the guy is good looking, makes her feel desired, wanted, important (even if it is an act), they will usually jump on it. When it comes to this, no izzat or loyalty matters. Read chartrio pakyaan and it touches on all this.

In the past conservatism and the threat of violence all round, helped keep communities in line - these forces evaporate in the west. I think the strongest force for influencing behavior, especially for females, is majority influence. Fact is apneean have plenty of 'role models' externally telling them to do what they like. We have a growing number saying/doing the same thing internally as well now.

Thing is, the fact that apneean run off like the above scenario when they come from both liberal families as well as hardcore anti-sullah ones ones (surely we've all seen this now), indicate that we need a different approach?

[GtLoc]

Dharam, raj to bina nahi reh sakda.

[jaikaara]

it is getting frequent in punjab, i remember a case in our area wherein the gal runs away with musla who told her he was a doc , in reality he was a slum dweller and had met the gal online ..still both ran away and then were traced and brought back by the police. the gal was adamant about her not wanting to go back to her parents and was brainwashed in accepting islam as her faith. We saw the inspector request and plead her to not do this and go back to her parents however she dint budge.

it was a emotional scene, the gal was older than 18 years and lawfully nothing could be done.

Sometimes i feel we need to forget the law and the emotions and just straighten this out our 'style'

[GtLoc]

Is it because we don't teach about our entire history? I remember punjabi school in Canada talked about Guru his etc but with Muslims in seats of power. Nothing about Chamkaur, in detail, nothing about baba bagel Singh, baba jassa Singh ahluwalia, or anything to showcase a modern martial spirit. I thought we had become colonized like others didn't know about the gaddars and that we won militarily. In our effort to be accepted, and loved by Al we're losing our shine, and this is reflecting to sisters and daughters. How hard is it to pop through guy, what's the point of a corrupt Punjab Police then?

[HSD1]

It's because we teach a skewed form of our history and we dont quite get the world we live in. If you live in a predominantly muslim area you cant expect not to be dragged down with them.

In the 80s Sikhs used to encourage their boys to get educated but told the girls they might as well just get jobs after school as their husbands would look after them financially. This caused a 'class gap' to form where boys were well educated and had gone to unis and mixed with white girls where as Sikh girls had gone and got jobs and stayed working class. The paki boys werent that smart but were more on the same level as the Sikh girls and they could relate. Sikh girls were too stupid to see what was going on. A lot of other Sikhs didnt care. Living so close to them and not knowing the other tricks the sulleh have just goes makes most of this grooming go over most Sikh's heads.

Even today the way religion is taught gives girls a skewed view of men that they convince themselves that what they see is true even though the reality is different.

Teaching your girls that everyone is the same and that everyone is good just leads to a quixotic viewpoint in these girls. They hear that and grow up around Sikhs who get up to all sorts and are far from the perfrect model of humanity that we like to convince ourselves everyone else is like. They also grow up in poor ghettoed areas and make the mistake of linking their poverty in upbringing to Sikhs as community rather than realising the realities of immigrant development and their own recent history. Once they go out in the big bad world and come across some gorah or sulleh or kaleh they are like lambs to the slaughter. All a gorah has to say is 'oh you guys are the ones with the golden temple right? oh man you guys are so cool and you fought for us in the world wars, man I would love to know more about you guys and increase my spirituality' , and whereas a typical asian girl would think 'oh great a perv with an asian fetish', sikh girls are like 'omg! he says he likes my religion so he cant be a racist! wow I could save him and make him a Sikh and my family would love him and we could get married and have piles of mixed race babies and everyone would love us and we just be perfect! I would get to know a white family and feel accepted and not be an immigrant no more! Oh Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru!', rather than realising he probably says it to any girl who will listen. The girl gets into a relationship and gives the guy the one thing he wants. If he sees there is no sexual/social/money reason to stick around he just tells her it wont work out and goes off to give the line to the next girl. If there is a reason to stick around they end up like those couples you see in London. The Sikh bint then has to evaluate what just happened if she gets dumped. She's too perfect so it cant be her (lol). The bloke is perfect so it cant be him (lol). Sikhi is perfect so it cant be that. Of course it's those dirty smelly Punjabis in the wider family and community! They ruin everything! They should have worshipped the bloke and gone overboard to make him stay and not driven him away! At this point the girl goes in overdrive hating on her own community and causing the rest of us grief until she gets used and dumped a few more times before it sinks in what is going on. At that point she wants an arranged marriage to a rich Sikh bloke if some gorah doesnt see a reason to get married to her first.

Even if girls know this they still fall for other tricks. People like to hit on a girl from a different race and if they cant get their way they call her racist. No one likes being called racist right? Dumb girls fall for that as well. Sometimes this boils down to an intelligence thing.

Sulleh on the other hand try the forbidden thing or play on girls boredom or unhappiness within their community. Trying to get girls to be more religous aint going to help. Involving and including them in the community and not raising them solely to be good housewives would help. That doesnt mean trying to stick turbans on them or keeping them in the Gurdwara all weekend. It means doing things that real culture does. But hobbies and wider culture arent flavour of the month amongst us.

Kaleh play off being cool and again use the thing about giving girls something they dont get in their own community. When their living in a council flat with a kid they suddenly arent so proud of what they've done but it's too late by then.

At the end of the day look after the women in your family and wider community. Keep an eye out and do something. Nothing criminal, but reason with them. Show them what is really going on and how they are being used. Raise them with the self respect and intelligence they need to not turn into victims. Raise your sons to want women like that.

[user2969]

It's because we teach a skewed form of our history and we dont quite get the world we live in. If you live in a predominantly muslim area you cant expect not to be dragged down with them.

In the 80s Sikhs used to encourage their boys to get educated but told the girls they might as well just get jobs after school as their husbands would look after them financially. This caused a 'class gap' to form where boys were well educated and had gone to unis and mixed with white girls where as Sikh girls had gone and got jobs and stayed working class. The paki boys werent that smart but were more on the same level as the Sikh girls and they could relate. Sikh girls were too stupid to see what was going on. A lot of other Sikhs didnt care. Living so close to them and not knowing the other tricks the sulleh have just goes makes most of this grooming go over most Sikh's heads.

Even today the way religion is taught gives girls a skewed view of men that they convince themselves that what they see is true even though the reality is different.

Teaching your girls that everyone is the same and that everyone is good just leads to a quixotic viewpoint in these girls. They hear that and grow up around Sikhs who get up to all sorts and are far from the perfrect model of humanity that we like to convince ourselves everyone else is like. They also grow up in poor ghettoed areas and make the mistake of linking their poverty in upbringing to Sikhs as community rather than realising the realities of immigrant development and their own recent history. Once they go out in the big bad world and come across some gorah or sulleh or kaleh they are like lambs to the slaughter. All a gorah has to say is 'oh you guys are the ones with the golden temple right? oh man you guys are so cool and you fought for us in the world wars, man I would love to know more about you guys and increase my spirituality' , and whereas a typical asian girl would think 'oh great a perv with an asian fetish', sikh girls are like 'omg! he says he likes my religion so he cant be a racist! wow I could save him and make him a Sikh and my family would love him and we could get married and have piles of mixed race babies and everyone would love us and we just be perfect! I would get to know a white family and feel accepted and not be an immigrant no more! Oh Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru!', rather than realising he probably says it to any girl who will listen. The girl gets into a relationship and gives the guy the one thing he wants. If he sees there is no sexual/social/money reason to stick around he just tells her it wont work out and goes off to give the line to the next girl. If there is a reason to stick around they end up like those couples you see in London. The Sikh bint then has to evaluate what just happened if she gets dumped. She's too perfect so it cant be her (lol). The bloke is perfect so it cant be him (lol). Sikhi is perfect so it cant be that. Of course it's those dirty smelly Punjabis in the wider family and community! They ruin everything! They should have worshipped the bloke and gone overboard to make him stay and not driven him away! At this point the girl goes in overdrive hating on her own community and causing the rest of us grief until she gets used and dumped a few more times before it sinks in what is going on. At that point she wants an arranged marriage to a rich Sikh bloke if some gorah doesnt see a reason to get married to her first.

Even if girls know this they still fall for other tricks. People like to hit on a girl from a different race and if they cant get their way they call her racist. No one likes being called racist right? Dumb girls fall for that as well. Sometimes this boils down to an intelligence thing.

Sulleh on the other hand try the forbidden thing or play on girls boredom or unhappiness within their community. Trying to get girls to be more religous aint going to help. Involving and including them in the community and not raising them solely to be good housewives would help. That doesnt mean trying to stick turbans on them or keeping them in the Gurdwara all weekend. It means doing things that real culture does. But hobbies and wider culture arent flavour of the month amongst us.

Kaleh play off being cool and again use the thing about giving girls something they dont get in their own community. When their living in a council flat with a kid they suddenly arent so proud of what they've done but it's too late by then.

At the end of the day look after the women in your family and wider community. Keep an eye out and do something. Nothing criminal, but reason with them. Show them what is really going on and how they are being used. Raise them with the self respect and intelligence they need to not turn into victims. Raise your sons to want women like that.

Well put.

[dalsingh101]

Some good points there HSD.

But what about other simple factors like girls being given enough freedom to choose their own partner and finding other blokes who are more compliant and attractive (subjectively speaking). Or not having to deal with horrible in-laws and other family members who come as baggage with a Panjabi husband? If evolutionary psychology is anything to go by, they would want to access the greatest resources and what does this mean in a discreetly racist society.

Sometimes I think some girls think 'I'll go with this wimpy, emasculated gora whose got a top job and would never disagree with anything I want to do' and go on to do whatever she wants without many restrictions.

You see them around. They sometimes get wide eyed and weirdly/uncomfortably stare forwards (desperately trying to avoid eye contact) when you pass them and their blokes in supermarket isles......lol

[HSD1]

Obviously there is only so much I can put on here. I cant cover every angle nor do people enjoy walls of texts. There is an element of free choice. But when you have mothers and older women who go on about how fair skin is always naturally more beautiful or fathers and male elders who talk of Britain as a land with streets paved with gold and British culture being intelligent, open and tolerant when they have never lived anywhere else and live in heavily desified areas, you have to ask how much is inadvertent brainwashing or deliberate attempts at getting their kids to buy into finding a way up the British social ladder no matter what. As for what happens to you in supermarkets, they're probably afraid you're going to say something and pop that bubble they've built. Better off just pretending you dont exist. I find it quite funny how girls like that do have a reaction when they see a smart apnah with a good looking gori though. Eyes like daggers! lol.

A lot of what I said above also applies to boys as well. Girls sometimes get the feeling that they are hard done by where as boys get it easy. If you coddle your lad and turn him into a brat, no girl will want him. Being leary and a git wont make you a hit with the kind of women you want. My friend showed me her facebook message inbox and for all the stupid ones from sulleh and goreh/kaleh there were a few from freshies from East Punjab including teenage boys who were saying things like 'I smoke dope all day every day, how bout you give me your number and be my girl?' It doesnt help that our lot can be pigs just as much as any other set of guys out there. I am not saying go to the other extreme and become shy and reclusive, but develop a sense of manhood that wont make you act like a dog in public. The fact that some Sikh guys arent even taught that shows that the Sikh model for raising kids isnt always working.

If we do let Sikhs kids just get on with it, we have to know why it doesnt happen in a widespread sense already. The older generation have to face the fact that its not the 19th century any more and arranged marriages that used to be for people who used to spend all their lives in the same village dont cut it in the real world. It's gone from something set up by mature, wise and intelligent elders for helping young people find someone not from the same village to a sometimes dangerous game of russian roulette.

Now if we do just let kids get on with it we have to face some other things. I've been to get togethers where women had fights because one of them used to know a bloke and the guy's new wife isnt keen on her being around. I'm sure guys are like that too. A while back a Sikh girl and her new boyfriend killed her ex boyfriend who happened to own the Sikh channel. This is something we need to get over or bypass if you want people to find their own spouses. Otherwise the violence will escalate and end up being another thing we get stereotyped for as well as fracturing communal cohesion.

Getting over caste or family differences is another thing. If they are Sikhs it shouldnt matter what caste they are or whether your families may have had it in for each other in the past. Just let them get married. Old folks are going to be long dead whilst the kids are the ones who'll have to live with the choices.

[Bornfearless]

So much happens n nothing is done.

I feel sad about it very sad

[Genie Singh]

Problem is simple, it's the nanaksari lie of all religions are exactly the same. All religions aren't the same, they should be tolerated and respected but aren't equivalent, it is miseducation and misinformation about understanding other religions. It's also how we blame ourselves for 1947 creation of pakistan, killing riots etc. And we teach an apologetic version of history. Regardless of how strict we get why is it that there is a whole group of gooris who don't fall for this stuff?

So it seems we can be liberal and maintain an identity, with many jews they seem to have a better handle on interfaith marriages, and are far liberal even more than sikhs aswell as being a smaller population. Many jewish men and women have their partner convert for them. It may have something to do with the lack of pride women have of being a Sikh. As well as the difference in social circles for men and women.

[Guest Tess]

On 2010-9-3 at 4:44 PM, kdsingh80 said:

Well It is not only sikh Girls.Thousands of Hindu Girls too marry muslim men.

bollywood actresses are leading in this way

Sir, its not only HIndu and Sikh girls, its Christian, Its Black, It's While, Chinese girls its all over the world.. They are attacking not only us but everyone in general.. they even attack their own.  This is why their women are kept inside houses and covered up.  The problem is with their men, thier ideaology, religion and culture.  Its is what they are taught Kill them, take them as sex slaves or charge them tax for being non moslem.  No other culture or religion teaches this, attack people that don't belong not of its own religion.. only islam does that.    I hope your girls are wise and stay safe.  

I will stand by Sikhs any day