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Balbir Singh

Is Reading The Guru Doing Naam Simran?

Is Reading The Guru Doing Naam Simran?  

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  1. 1. Is Reading The Guru Doing Naam Simran?



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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Some preachers plead. Reading the Guru is doing Naam Simran.

My curiosity is to know. Since when are you reading the Guru? Do you feel it is Naam Simran?

Balbir Singh

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Please listen.

Guru Amar Daas Jee is singing.

ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਦੂਣੀ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਆਇ ॥

बहु बिधि करम कमावदे दूणी मलु लागी आइ ॥

bahu bidhi karam kamaavade dooNee mal laagee aai ||

Through many ways earn Karma. Double impurity comes adhering.

ਪੜਿਐ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਗਿਆਨੀਆ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥

पड़िऐ मैलु न उतरै पूछहु गिआनीआ जाइ ॥१॥

paRiai mailu na utarai pooChahu giaaneeaa jaai ||1|| SGGS Ang 39

By reading impurity is not removed. Ask wise going to.

*****

Strange. Many preachers plead. Reading is doing Naam Jap (Meditation).

Thank God. A preacher could not become my Guru.

Balbir Singh

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Here is my opinion.

Gurbani teaches. So if we just read and do not follow teachings then that is not good. We should try to follow as much as we can.

Reading can be done on different levels, outer and inner. so when some one is absorbed into Gurbani , that can be naam simran. Naam Simran means being absorbed in Waheguru's thought. That thought can be brought upon by reading Gurbani.

Reading Gurbani with love and total absorption is a form of Naam Simran.

When you read Gurbani you say various names of God like har, gobind, gopal etc That also becomes a form of Naam Simran.

Gurbani generates sounds and currents, those are the divine sounds which carry us back to the Dhur, our root.

Even if a person does not read Gurbani with concentration or absorption, I do not believe that effort would be totally useless or worthless. There would be some merit in one way or another.

Gurbani is naam simran because it reminds us of the qualities of God, who is God, where is God, how to please Him, ...In essence our thoughts are still merging in simran of God, so I don't think it would be wrong to say Naam Simran can also be reading Gurbani.

But when reading Gurbani , an effort should be made to abosrb teaching, follow teachings.. and get lost in his thoughtsss... that can also be a form ofNaam Simran...

just my thoughts

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Some preachers plead. Reading the Guru is doing Naam Simran.

My curiosity is to know. Since when are you reading the Guru? Do you feel it is Naam Simran?

Balbir Singh

I know it is Naam Simran.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Ragmaala Jee wrote "Gurbani teaches. So if we just read and do not follow teachings then that is not good."

Gurbani teaches to receive Naam and do its Simran. Gurbani does not teach to read it again and again.

*****

An experienced person wrote this. 'Drink water when you are thirsty. By drinking water thirst is quenched.'

How many times one should read the above sentences and his thirst will be quenched?

Strange. There are people who read such sentences whole life and wonder what is that they are missing.

Balbir Singh

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Some preachers plead. Reading the Guru is doing Naam Simran.

My curiosity is to know. Since when are you reading the Guru? Do you feel it is Naam Simran?

Balbir Singh

I think first we should look at the meaning of Simran. Simran, derived from the word Simurn means to remember. Driving home today I will remember my co-worker, not by reciting his/her name, but simply because I had a direct experience with that person. I will not need to say Ben Ben Ben Ben to remember him.

How can I, this Jiva, do Simran of that Naam for which I have no experience of?

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Pheena Jee!

Thanks for your input.

One should come to know Simran. Only then his existence knows it.

A preacher wants you to believe in it. He does not know how one may experience it.

Balbir Singh

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Ragmaala Jee wrote "Gurbani teaches. So if we just read and do not follow teachings then that is not good."

Gurbani teaches to receive Naam and do its Simran. Gurbani does not teach to read it again and again.

*****

An experienced person wrote this. 'Drink water when you are thirsty. By drinking water thirst is quenched.'

How many times one should read the above sentences and his thirst will be quenched?

Strange. There are people who read such sentences whole life and wonder what is that they are missing.

Balbir Singh

Gurbani teaches to sing and read Gurbani. I am sure you have read anand sahib.

There is a difference between a sentence said by a normal person like water water water...obviously that wont quench his thirst.

And there is a difference between Divine Pankti or Tuk from Gurbani... even if a person mechanically recited it , I believe the friction of the shabad and various physiological processes in body will lead him to experience something.

You have to understand that Gurbani in whole 1430 pages has a "satta" to it. It comes from DHUR, the root,

whereas as a normal word like water is a man made language, it doesnt have the satta like Gurbani...

In the end , do whatever floats your boat, if you like reading Gurbani read that, if someone like reciting waheguru they do that...baaki Guru di mehar chahidi hai...

Its nothing to have a dispute about, or debate about , or to prove a point to someone...every ones got to do their own work ...

And its nothing to get offended if a preacher says something in the gurudwara that you dont agree with , example Gurbani is Naam Simran... when we think tooo much we tend to confuse even the simplest concepts...

keep it real and simple

Edited by Ragmaala

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Ragmaala Jee!

You wrote "Gurbani teaches to sing and read Gurbani."

I did not know that Gurbani is a school for music and language.

Quote "I am sure you have read anand sahib."

Please listen. My Guru is singing in Ananda.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਹੁ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥੭॥

कहै नानकु एहु अनंदु है आनंदु गुर ते जाणिआ ॥७॥

Kahai Nānak ehu anand hai ānanḏ gur ṯe jāṇi▫ā. ||7||

SGGS Ang. 917-18

Ragmaala Jee, are you sure that Gur is learning to read?

Quote "I believe the friction of the shabad and various physiological processes in body will lead him to experience something."

Believing is not knowing something. Come to experience it.

Quote "You have to understand that Gurbani in whole 1430 pages has a "satta" to it. It comes from DHUR, the root,

whereas as a normal word like water is a man made language, it doesnt have the satta like Gurbani..."

May I ask? When you read Gurbani, does it come from your Dhur or from Gurujee's Dhur?

Quote "when we think tooo much we tend to confuse even the simplest concepts..."

You are right. Preachers get confused when we think a little bit.

*****

I hope you do not mind it if someone starts seeking the Gur of true Naam Simran.

Balbir Singh

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There is naad in gurbani (special sound resonance- sound technology), gurbani is written in a special meter that vibrates to cause spirtual experiences. When gurbani is read with belief in awe with Love (hence drinking -the awe) you will experience its power such as painting the colour of Ram and Allah all over your body, your body will vibrate to it, illnesses, pain will go, your tolerances increase, will power comes, spirtual experiences enter your life. Baba Nand Singh equated naam simran to certain amount of paath which came from mukht marag granth written by guru gobind singh- they prescribe how much waheguru satnaam or moolmantar equal how much paath- paracharaks use this for illiterate who can not read bani or those who take amrit who can not read are prescribed maala repetiton- so 1 jaap of 108 beads = 1 japji sahib for morning 5 banis = 5 x 108 jaaps on mala. To experience gurbani to its fullest it has to be read in awe- awe is a feeling such that we see something in nature like a huge waterfall- inside a buzz is felt that is expressed in gurbani as dasam dwar ishnan (the 10th gates washing of body) and also as Darshan- (divine vision which is experienced within - darshan can also mean guru actually appearing infront of you, waheguru is without form he comes kisses you on the lips and touches you from within, and vibrates each and every cell of your being, your hairs stand up and feel anand -ecstasy or what is termed Swyab from Arabic terms). Gurbani should be read in true grace and humility which can be recognised from sewa and satsangat hence why we need all 3 for our spiritual journeys, just like how a women would speak to seduce her lover- from sufi conceptual viewpoint of soul bride.

Edited by sarbatdapala

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Ragmaala Jee!

You wrote "Gurbani teaches to sing and read Gurbani."

I did not know that Gurbani is a school for music and language.

Gurbani instructs to sing and read : Aavho Sikh Satguru Ke Pyareho Gaavho Sachi Baani

Quote "I am sure you have read anand sahib."

Please listen. My Guru is singing in Ananda.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਹੁ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥੭॥

कहै नानकु एहु अनंदु है आनंदु गुर ते जाणिआ ॥७॥

Kahai Nānak ehu anand hai ānanḏ gur ṯe jāṇi▫ā. ||7||

SGGS Ang. 917-18

Ragmaala Jee, are you sure that Gur is learning to read?

Not Guru, but def Sikh is always learning to read

Quote "I believe the friction of the shabad and various physiological processes in body will lead him to experience something."

Believing is not knowing something. Come to experience it.

One day

Quote "You have to understand that Gurbani in whole 1430 pages has a "satta" to it. It comes from DHUR, the root,

whereas as a normal word like water is a man made language, it doesnt have the satta like Gurbani..."

May I ask? When you read Gurbani, does it come from your Dhur or from Gurujee's Dhur?

Guru jee himself is dhur of everyone. Guru Jee jhas no dhur, He is DHUR by himself, Guru is Rabb, Rabb has no Dhur, since mann tu jot saroop hain aapna mool pachan so my dhur is Rabb, so bani comes from the dhur, bani comes from Rabb

Quote "when we think tooo much we tend to confuse even the simplest concepts..."

You are right. Preachers get confused when we think a little bit.

Thats why gun grahan karo , jehdi cheez nahi changi lagdi tyaag do

*****

I hope you do not mind it if someone starts seeking the Gur of true Naam Simran.

not at all

Balbir Singh

Edited by Ragmaala

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear Sarbatdapala Jee!

I am convinced. You have reached somewhere. A normal person cannot experience such things. You can now start your carrier of a preacher.

Ragmaala Jee!

Have you ever done Jap of these wonderful Vaaks from Gurdev?

ਹਠੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਕਰੈ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਵੈ ||

हठु अहंकारु करै नही पावै ॥

haThu ahankaaru karai nahee paavai ||

Persistency ego acts, does not receive.

ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਲੇ ਲੋਕ ਸੁਣਾਵੇ ||

पाठ पड़ै ले लोक सुणावे ॥

paaTh paRai le lok suNaave ||

Reads Paath. That recites for people.

ਤੀਰਥਿ ਭਰਮਸਿ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ||

तीरथि भरमसि बिआधि न जावै ॥

teerathi bharamasi biaadhi na jaavai ||

Through pilgrimages wanders. Problems do not go.

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਕੈਸੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ||੪||

नाम बिना कैसे सुखु पावै ॥४॥

naam binaa kaise sukhu paavai ||4||

Without Naam how to receive, comfort.

Sri Guru Granth Saahib Ji, Ang 905

Balbir Singh

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear Sarbatdapala Jee!

I am convinced. You have reached somewhere. A normal person cannot experience such things. You can now start your carrier of a preacher.

Ragmaala Jee!

Have you ever done Jap of these wonderful Vaaks from Gurdev?

ਹਠੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਕਰੈ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਵੈ ||

हठु अहंकारु करै नही पावै ॥

haThu ahankaaru karai nahee paavai ||

Persistency ego acts, does not receive.

ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਲੇ ਲੋਕ ਸੁਣਾਵੇ ||

पाठ पड़ै ले लोक सुणावे ॥

paaTh paRai le lok suNaave ||

Reads Paath. That recites for people.

ਤੀਰਥਿ ਭਰਮਸਿ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ||

तीरथि भरमसि बिआधि न जावै ॥

teerathi bharamasi biaadhi na jaavai ||

Through pilgrimages wanders. Problems do not go.

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਕੈਸੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ||੪||

नाम बिना कैसे सुखु पावै ॥४॥

naam binaa kaise sukhu paavai ||4||

Without Naam how to receive, comfort.

Sri Guru Granth Saahib Ji, Ang 905

Balbir Singh

ofcourse without Naam/Gurbani there is no sukh shanti...

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ofcourse without Naam/Gurbani there is no sukh shanti...

Ragmaala Jee, you read Paath imagining you are doing Jap of Naam.

May I ask why do you add a slash (/) with Naam? Is this your research?

Balbir Singh

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Ragmaala Jee, you read Paath imagining you are doing Jap of Naam.

May I ask why do you add a slash (/) with Naam? Is this your research?

Balbir Singh

Bhaji,

for me reading Gurbani reminds me or helps me remember about Waheguru, so its a form of Naam Simran for me. Thats why I add a slash.

In Gurbani itself, you get to say many Names of God, so thats a naam japna itself.

Edited by Ragmaala

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear Ragmaala Jee!

You wrote "for me reading Gurbani reminds me or helps me remember about Waheguru, so its a form of Naam Simran for me."

Do some people forget Waheguru when they are not reading Gurbani? Did the reverend Gurus give many forms of Naam Simran and reading Gurbani is one of those? Did the true Gurus ever plead to read and called it Naam Simran?

Many visited earth in a human life to read and hear the printed matter of what Gurus once uttered. They imagine they were doing Naam Simran. Strange, they have replaced the word Naam with Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee and are wasting this Janam also.

Please ponder. My Guru is singing.

ਆਇਓ ਸੁਨਨ ਪੜਨ ਕਉ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

आइओ सुनन पड़न कउ बाणी ॥

Ā▫i▫o sunan paṛan ka▫o baṇī.

ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਲਗਹਿ ਅਨ ਲਾਲਚਿ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

नामु विसारि लगहि अन लालचि बिरथा जनमु पराणी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Nām visār lagėh an lālacẖ birthā janam parāṇī. ||1|| rahā▫o.

ਸਮਝੁ ਅਚੇਤ ਚੇਤਿ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਥੀ ਸੰਤਨ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਣੀ ॥

समझु अचेत चेति मन मेरे कथी संतन अकथ कहाणी ॥

Samajẖ acẖeṯ cẖeṯ man mere kathī sanṯan akath kahāṇī.

ਲਾਭੁ ਲੈਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਿਦੈ ਅਰਾਧਹੁ ਛੁਟਕੈ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀ ॥੧॥

लाभु लैहु हरि रिदै अराधहु छुटकै आवण जाणी ॥१॥

Lābẖ laihu har riḏai ārāḏẖahu cẖẖutkai āvaṇ jāṇī. ||1|| SGGS Ang. 1219

Quote "In Gurbani itself, you get to say many Names of God, so thats a naam japna itself."

This is your Karma result. Go on imagining while reading.

ਉਦਮੁ ਸਕਤਿ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਰੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੀ ॥

उदमु सकति सिआणप तुम्हरी देहि त नामु वखाणी ॥

Uḏam sakaṯ si▫āṇap ṯumĥrī ḏėh ṯa nām vakẖāṇī.

ਸੇਈ ਭਗਤ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੇ ਲਾਗੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਾਣੀ ॥੨॥੫੬॥੭੯॥

सेई भगत भगति से लागे नानक जो प्रभ भाणी ॥२॥५६॥७९॥

Balbir Singh

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All I can understand is the power of naam is something beyond the material world, the feeling of awe within it is the touch of God. Guru Nanak went to many places of pilgrimage such as mecca and hardvar and people believed God is there but just like what sufi masters (plus kabballah+ gnostic -christian+jew masters) and hindu yogis +jain + buddhist masters have been saying for eons is that God is within. God is an experience of truer self-realisation a deep search within the self which masters of the past say can take more then one life time but for us Guru Nanak is one of the greatest masters of many times and has given the understanding for great achievement. Japji sahib talks about gavan tudh nu again and again and this singing is a deeper experience that even we have to go through to take birth this samadhi is a deeper one in which guru sahib can come in any form and shape now to help you on the way. Like bhagat dhanna did seva of takhur of a stone and got his kamai - it is all about being in that state (be it jeevan mukht- fanna - The gospels explaining it as the kingdom of god being within) but as for my 2 cents worth I am not sure if there is truely an end to the journey or if the infinite nature of God is such that our journey never ends even when we have achieved something- is there an end- even the devtas praise God? So it may be universal state- I have no understanding what mukhti is to the fullest need to read up more on it- but do let us know where you get in your journey. I would say sewa is equally as important as simran just sometimes it is hard to find sewa so we have to pray for that as well as sangat.

Simran translates to mean remembering your own death and there hindus who do this mediation and many mahapurkhs such as baba nand singh who said we should contemplate our death every day.

Edited by sarbatdapala

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Many visited earth in a human life to read and hear the printed matter of what Gurus once uttered. They imagine they were doing Naam Simran. Strange, they have replaced the word Naam with Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee and are wasting this Janam also.

Balbir Singh

So basically you are saying that people who read Gurbani only are wasting their life as they are not doing Naam Simran.

And you are also saying that Guru Granth Sahib is just a print version of what Gurus said.

I don't agree with you at all.Period. And its useless to discuss any further, since discussing Naam vs Gurbani is not going to help either you or me. Practise it and experience for yourself.

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So basically you are saying that people who read Gurbani only are wasting their life as they are not doing Naam Simran.

And you are also saying that Guru Granth Sahib is just a print version of what Gurus said.

I don't agree with you at all.Period. And its useless to discuss any further, since discussing Naam vs Gurbani is not going to help either you or me. Practise it and experience for yourself.

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Ragmaala Jee!

Surely one should read BaaNee. He should understand and act on it also.

Therefore said Gurdev and gave it in writing too. Please read Truth again. Perhaps your mind comes to the right track.

ਆਇਓ ਸੁਨਨ ਪੜਨ ਕਉ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਲਗਹਿ ਅਨ ਲਾਲਚਿ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ sggs ang 1219

Balbir Singh

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Naam is in Gurmantr, Mool Mantr, and all other Gurbani. So doing paath is Naam simran. However, from what a gyani once told, Gurmantr abhyaas is like flight, the goal is to be in flight as much as possible. Gurbani is like the runway, we need it for safety. So both are necessary. The greater the flight, the longer the runway needed.

However, I have also heard that many singhs have had ajaapa jaap of gurmantr begin through immense abhyaas of japji sahib or some other bani, which shows that both are Naam.

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In my opinion I will say naam and gurbani are the same, people have wrote books on explaining naam- gurbani is equivalent hence why one should avoid translations compared to original gurmukhi the gurmukhi has the meter or naad in that some people talk about it in terms of haadh shabd or the primal renounce. The power I would say is a personal experience just like people talk about water crystal experiments changing to words- look at the pics http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm how water responds to words and the shabad will change our physical make up as well which is majority water.

So there is physical change and we have the emoition of being calm other then that all that comes to mind is the new discovery of the God gene which infact is being used against religion- but its existence can be explained in purans, vedas and by sufi from gurbani of rom rom base har nam; we know maharaj is in our rom rom- in cells- so this gene may hold deeper basis for spiritual experiences, miracles, healing and deeper things.

Edited by sarbatdapala

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Xylitol Jee!

You wrote "Naam is in Gurmantr, Mool Mantr, and all other Gurbani."

Did the reverend Gurus ever write a mixed-up sentence like that?

Strange, not any participant provided True Guru's one Vaak confirming that reading the Guru Granth Saahib is Naam japnaa. Why?

Quote "So doing paath is Naam simran."

Please provide a reference of the true Guru you are following. I will be thankful.

Quote "However, from what a gyani once told, Gurmantr abhyaas is like flight, the goal is to be in flight as much as possible."

Do you know what is Gurmantar?

Please listen. My Guru is singing about Gurmantar.

ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਦਸਿਆ ਜਪੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੰਤੁ ॥

हरि मारगु साधू दसिआ जपीऐ गुरमंतु ॥

Har mārag sāḏẖū ḏasi▫ā japī▫ai gurmanṯ.

SGGS Ang. 321

But preachers say that Hari Maarag is told by Granth Saahib Jee, therefore never visit a Saadhoo.

Quote "However, I have also heard that many singhs have had ajaapa jaap of gurmantr begin through immense abhyaas of japji sahib or some other bani, which shows that both are Naam."

Who told you that Japujee Saahib is the Gurmantar?

*****

Most of today's Sikhs are the preacher's result, not that of the true Gurus. This is my observation.

Balbir Singh

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I think what might help in answering this question maybe some evidence which displays the nitnem banis- As they are prescribed by Guru Gobind Singh upon creation of khalsa panth there should be some rehat marayda on it or in suraj prakash or in nand lal goya texts or in another text. Additionally would be nice to know what was the practice before 10th Guru what did Sikhs have to do as there daily prayer? But as per usual many sikh preacher recommend chanting for 1 hr a day regardless of religion and the name of God so you can say ram ram, or alah hu akbar or waheguru satnam or any other remembrance of God to shed ego.

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Dear Balbir ji you said,

Do you know what is Gurmantar?

Please listen. My Guru is singing about Gurmantar.

ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਦਸਿਆ ਜਪੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੰਤੁ ॥

हरि मारगु साधू दसिआ जपीऐ गुरमंतु ॥

Har mārag sāḏẖū ḏasi▫ā japī▫ai gurmanṯ.

SGGS Ang. 321

But preachers say that Hari Maarag is told by Granth Saahib Jee, therefore never visit a Saadhoo.

Balbir Singh

Edited by Satgyan-pujari

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