The Jhatka Conference In 1937

[chatanga1]

I have a book called the Life of Kartar Singh Jhabbar. This guy is like a personal hero of mine, a very lion-like character, who never feared the enemy for the glory of the Panth. A kind of pre-partition Sant Jarnail Singh. What is quite surprising is that very few people know of him. This may be to do with the fact that he operated in Western Panjab mainly.

However this topic is just to relate a few facts, arising from the recent discussion on meat/veg issue.

This is it in brief:

In 1937, a Sikh, bagh singh tenant of Ghulam Hussain, in Jandiala Sher Khan in Sheikhupura, did jhatka, and for this he was insulted and turned out of his land by muslims of the village. This news was dispatched to Jhabbar, who organised a 2 day Jhatka Conference and requested that 50 goats be presented at the conference, for 25 goats each day was to be jhatka'ed. The muslims of the village and local area, brought in more muslims with the intent to attack the Sikhs to prevent jhatka, but there was over 2000 Sikhs armed and waiting for them. In the fight 1 Sikh was shot, and 6 Muslims were killed. The local MLA Abdul Ghazanfar claimed the Sikhs had attacked innocent muslims, and the case went right to the Panjab Govt.

Sikander Hyat Khan requested an interview with Jhabbar, and Khan was visibly annoyed when he heard of the jhatka having taken place. He asked Jhabbar " what if we decided to kill 50 cows there?" Jhabbar said " then we would kill 50 pigs there."

Khan asked why, and Jhabbar replied" the issue is not over the killing of cows or pigs, but that if muslims have the freedom to perform halal as per their religion, then why dont the SIkhs have this freedom to the same. At the point Khan had nothing to say, and the case against Jhabbar was dropped.

Here is a little info on Jhabbar, i really recommend that you buy the bok next time you go india. Amazing guy.

http://bhaikartarsinghjhabbar.org/eng_boch1_15.html

[kdsingh80]

Thanks for sharing this.

My late Grandmother who was born and grown up in west Punjab also told me about that muslims did not used to allow sikhs to Eat Jhatka meat.She also told me that sometimes Men used to bring some chicken and do jhatka and then they use to ask close the door so that muslim don't know that meat is being cooked.When I asked her why sikhs did not use to revolt she said " asi ki kar sakde si sikhaan de sirf 2-3 ghar si te unhaan de 100"

[dalsingh101]

Nice story.

[tonyhp32]

It is a shame that Kartar Singh Jhabbar did not make a bid to become a leader of the Akali Dal after partition and pretty much played a background role. He would have made a better leader than Master Tara Singh or later Sant Fateh Singh.

[dalsingh101]

I'm reading a book about the first Anglo-Sikh war.

We really get shafted by our own 'leaders' regularly.

Never heard of anyone else getting done like that so frequently.

Edited October 16, 2010 by dalsingh101

[chatanga1]

It is a shame that Kartar Singh Jhabbar did not make a bid to become a leader of the Akali Dal after partition and pretty much played a background role. He would have made a better leader than Master Tara Singh or later Sant Fateh Singh.

it's very interesting you say that Tony, as the Shiromani Akali Dal grew from the nucleus "Akali Jatha Sauda Khara Bar" of which Jhabbar was the head.

and i posted this topic on sikhsangat. they removed it the next day.

Edited October 17, 2010 by chatanga1

[dalsingh101]

and i posted this topic on sikhsangat. they removed it the next day.

Why do you think that was?

[kdsingh80]

Why do you think that was?

Is Sikhsangat a Fair site? If I am not wrong Their admins have openly told that sikhsangat is anti meat and they will not allow anything that is pro meat

[dalsingh101]

Is Sikhsangat a Fair site? If I am not wrong Their admins have openly told that sikhsangat is anti meat and they will not allow anything that is pro meat

That is fair enough to me.

I think they have a policy of not allowing discussion on the matter.

We know it is an emotive issue, everyone has their own interpretation.

Leave it at that.

All Gurdwaras are vege, if any aren't they need to be.

Everyone is covered.

One thing I should add though, those families who shak meat should make sure they have sons that can fight.

[kdsingh80]

I think they have a policy of not allowing discussion on the matter.

We know it is an emotive issue, everyone has their own interpretation.

Well Earlier they use to close discussion saying that they do not allow meat discussions, Now they openly close it saying that killing an animal is against gurmat they will not allow any discussion on meat which i think is quite biased.

One thing I should add though, those families who shak meat should make sure they have sons that can fight.

Quite strange, Why obligation only on meat eating sikhs? Do you want to say that Vegetarian jatha's are exempted from raising sons which can fight.

[dalsingh101]

Well Earlier they use to close discussion saying that they do not allow meat discussions, Now they openly close it saying that killing an animal is against gurmat they will not allow any discussion on meat which i think is quite biased.

We can make it an issue but it is better not to. Veges will simply turn around to omnivores and tell them they are biased towards meat eating. Live and let be is the only policy that will work. Some Sikh institutes will have a vegetarian belief (like DDT) others will not (like Nihangs). That is how it has been for a long time now, so it will remain. One side antagonising the other is counterproductive and divisive.

Quite strange, Why obligation only on meat eating sikhs? Do you want to say that Vegetarian jatha's are exempted from raising sons which can fight.

I never put that across properly, what I meant was that those who sanction meat eating on the basis of it helping with sipahihood, should have sipahi types at the end of it too show - that's what I think anyway. Not make noise about meat eating, jhatka and then produce complete puppoo kabooters at the end of it.

Every Sikh, whether vege or otherwise, should be producing encouraging sipahi type mentality but given that many meat eaters mention the practice in relation to sipahiness, between us, I don't think it is wrong to talk of having something to show for it afterwards.

Edited October 17, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

it's very interesting you say that Tony, as the Shiromani Akali Dal grew from the nucleus "Akali Jatha Sauda Khara Bar" of which Jhabbar was the head.

and i posted this topic on sikhsangat. they removed it the next day.

I think the reason may have been that the Sikhs from west Punjav were dispersed and hence their leaders lost their support base. One thong I am sure of is that with Jhabbar their would have been none of the 'fast unto death' fiascos that Master Tara Singh indulged in late in his political career.

[Freed]

Gurfateh!

Thanks for the link 'Chatanga' ji

I love the photograph of Jathedar Sardar Kartar Singh Jhabbar - especially the 'samman vali dang' he is carrying.

[chatanga1]

I never put that across properly, what I meant was that those who sanction meat eating on the basis of it helping with sipahihood, should have sipahi types at the end of it too show - that's what I think anyway. Not make noise about meat eating, jhatka and then produce complete puppoo kabooters at the end of it.

Every Sikh, whether vege or otherwise, should be producing encouraging sipahi type mentality but given that many meat eaters mention the practice in relation to sipahiness, between us, I don't think it is wrong to talk of having something to show for it afterwards.

yeah bro, but just as one does not attain to saintly in a few days of naam simran, one does not attain to warrior status after a few days of meat-eating.

Sipahi mentality should be promoted definitely.

[Mithar]

One great thing about Kartar Singh Jhabbar was that he was of the opinion that there should be no compromise unless Sikhs clearly have the upper hand in a situation. He had a very pro Panthic stance, a real ultra Sikh nationalist. That's the kind of leader we should have had. He was smart enough to know that he cannot trust non-Sikhs, since non-Sikhs (Hindus, Muslims, Christians) would look after the interests of their communities first. Unfortunately for the Sikhs, our leaders were the opposite who would look after the interests of others(mostly Hindus) first then look after the interests of the Sikh Panth.

I think that people like Jhabbar were sent to the Panth by Guru Jee. The way Jhabbar and the Akali had won during the Gurudwara reform movement during the British Raaj, do you think we would have been able to do that after 1947 under Hindu Raaj as the Hindus had wanted? Never!

I pray Guru Jee does bakshish on us and sends more souls like Jhabbar because we need more Kartar Singh Jhabbars in the Panth today.

[chatanga1]

Absolutely true, Mithar Ji.

Don't you think that we should remember Jhabbars jeevan the same way that we remember other great Sikhs from recent and long ago times? I have never in 7 years, at Wednesfield Gurdwara ever heard his name mentioned from the stage.

People like Jhabbar certainly inspire others to commit to Panthic work.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Some more info about Jhabber Ji,

Pujaris at Darbar Sahib complex were not allowing the "untouchable sikhs" beyond the Chautha Paur(Bank of Holy lake in front of Darshani Deori).

It was Jhabber who forced thier entery and fleaing of Pujaris from complex, he made various untouchables as sevadar at Shri Akal Takhat Sahib.

Further to it, reservation(in various govt. post and schemes in India) for lower caste/untouchables converts to Sikhism is due to his effort only.

He died un sung in habri(place nar Karnal).

[unbreakable]

Question - Does eating meat affect your naam simran?

I am not against meat, after all how can I be, the flesh that covers my bones is meat.

But in terms of spirituality, naam simran, reading from Sat Guru Granth Sahib Ji, etc.

Can one have a burger and then pop over to the gurdwara to read sukhmani sahib ji or Sri Sat Guru Granth Sahib Ji????

[chatanga1]

it all depends on the individual on how eating meat affects their spirituality.

[unbreakable]

it all depends on the individual on how eating meat affects their spirituality.

good answer..if you can call it that

rab rakha..

Edited November 18, 2010 by unbreakable

[chatanga1]

good answer, followed by a snide remark, unbreakable ji?

speaking from personal experience only, i was non-veg for 17 years, during which i felt myself grow spiritually, but in the last 3 years since i took amrit, i havent eaten meat, but have definitely not felt or noticed any spiritual advance ment at all.

what i have noticed since taking amrit is the change physically, in that my weight has gone from about 85kg to 70kg, and since avoiding meat in my diet, i have probably every day felt hungry. I definitely am weaker physically.

Edited December 2, 2010 by chatanga1

[amardeep]

Chatanga:

Eat properly then you will not feel hungry. Saying your body craves for meat is pure BS

[chatanga1]

Saying your body craves for meat is pure BS

hold on geezer everyone is different physically so recognise that. i do eat properly FYI so i know your remark is BS. what do you think that cravings are unnatural or wrong?

Edited December 2, 2010 by chatanga1

[amardeep]

Then go to your doctor and have some blood tests and see if you lack anything

[amardeep]

bump