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Why Are So Many Modern British Career Women Converting To Islam?

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Edited by dalsingh101

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Edited by dalsingh101

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Power and confidence play a strong part in the equation I imagine. Well that's the impression I get from reading charitrio pakyaan.

You have to give a lot of these sullah one thing, they are entirely convinced and confident about their faith (as crap as some of us may think it is). More times apnay seem to have either 1) egos going off the scale or are 2) timid like giddarhs. When it comes to really 'religious' Sikhs they are often sort of 'asexual' or understandably restraining themselves for marriage.

But yes, women don't seem very clear on what they want often, they are VERY susceptible to external pressures and forces like social pressure (not that some backboneless bundhay aren't either).

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You have to give a lot of these sullah one thing, they are entirely convinced and confident about their faith (as crap as some of us may think it is). More times apnay seem to have either 1) egos going off the scale or are 2) timid like giddarhs. When it comes to really 'religious' Sikhs they are often sort of 'asexual' or understandably restraining themselves for marriage.

The best things about muslims is even after doing 100s of anti islamic things they always remain loyal to their faith.Just look at Bollywood where there are 50% muslims and majority of Khans always make films so the image of muslims

remain very good in the eyes of Indian public.Shahrukh Khan's Film My name is Khan look's like a documentry film to improve the image of muslims all over the world similarly aamir and Salman always put pro muslim scene's in their films.

Now compare it with Clean shaven sikh directors and producers in bollywood .they have not done anything for sikhs.Infact they have tried their level best to portray Turbaned sikhs as buffoons ,always portraying sikhs as Hindu's.This shows that how much religion lives in the heart of muslims and in the heart of sikhs.

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Now compare it with Clean shaven sikh directors and producers in bollywood.

I didn't know there were any?

Who are they?

I can't stand post-Sholay era Bollywood films myself. Saw about 5 mins of Singh is Kinng (should've been titled 'Singh is clowwn by the way) and couldn't watch any more.

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I didn't know there were any?

Who are they?

I can't stand post-Sholay era Bollywood films myself. Saw about 5 mins of Singh is Kinng (should've been titled 'Singh is clowwn by the way) and couldn't watch any more.

There are many

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Baweja

His son

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harman_Baweja

Above is just an example

Anyway You should see Singh is King.Believe me It is only Film which has shown

Bollywood's most beautiful Girl romancing with Sardar no other film has done that and later in the film Sikhs are portrayed O.K.On the other hand Films like Jab we met clearly shown Sikh girl leaving his Turbaned sikh fiance for her Hindu B/F.Infact they have dialogue that "larka sikh nahi hai naa is liye ghar waale nahi maane ge" also saying that after marriage "main unke pair pakar loongi"

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i love their religious fervour and presentation, thsi is where we lack, check the sites, they dont have images of hezbollah and al qaeda , they have lovely pictures which makes the sight of a skull cap wearing mullah with a moustache shaven bearded face and with a cunning smile soothing...

go through apne sites they have pictures of kharkoos all over, immature graffiti and captions like Ak - 47 waale gabroo, punjabi sher, mitraan nu shauk hathyaara da...badlaa le lo ..neverforget84..darshan lala...the list is never ending

now what sells better ? besides they dont have dearth of people to guide new comers or even people with questions.

sikhawareness.com site looks like a serious effort for a platform for sikhs to discuss, otherwise we have ready-to-ban moderators just not mature enough.

i had recently visited askimam.org, no wonder how stupid the questions are , they are welcomed and answered.

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sikhawareness.com site looks like a serious effort for a platform for sikhs to discuss, otherwise we have ready-to-ban moderators just not mature enough.

The problem is that most of the sikh sites have associated themselves with the sikh sects and they want views that are inline with the ideology they have associated.That is why mods just shoot down any post which are not in line with their views.For example if admins of site believe that vegetarianism is necessary

in sikhism then they don't allow any post in which their is any type of pro meat

arguement is written.similarly if a sikh site has policy of hindu bashing and you write why are You bashing hindu's so much then these type of comments are not accepted.

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To be honest women are hard to predict.The religion that allows them least freedom

they embrace it and 100s of questions are raised toward other religions about women's equality

Some women crave being dominated... some men do as well actually (and pay for it too!)

Some women do not like being dominated at all (and fight back tooth and nail)... just like majority of men would not like to be dominated.

We are all individuals and nobody can paint two individuals with the same brush... let alone an entire gender.

Thats why all options should be available. If someone wants to submit themselves to being dominated they can follow a group / religion etc who practices this. Similarly, if someone feels drawn to a path where they have full freedom and are in the dominant position, they can choose that path. Either way, nothing should be forced on anyone.

Human level dominance and submission issues / disagreements / struggles have nothing to do with whether or not someone can reach God.

If these women became Muslim entirely of their own volition... it's their choice.

Wouldn't be me though... but I am starting to think 'orthodox' Sikh sects are too different from Islam in how they treat women.

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur

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Some women crave being dominated... some men do as well actually (and pay for it too!)

Some women do not like being dominated at all (and fight back tooth and nail)... just like majority of men would not like to be dominated.

We are all individuals and nobody can paint two individuals with the same brush... let alone an entire gender.

Thats why all options should be available. If someone wants to submit themselves to being dominated they can follow a group / religion etc who practices this. Similarly, if someone feels drawn to a path where they have full freedom and are in the dominant position, they can choose that path. Either way, nothing should be forced on anyone.

Human level dominance and submission issues / disagreements / struggles have nothing to do with whether or not someone can reach God.

If these women became Muslim entirely of their own volition... it's their choice.

Wouldn't be me though... but I am starting to think 'orthodox' Sikh sects are too different from Islam in how they treat women.

It is not like that they want to be dominated so they accept islam. It is just they don't care about whether they are being dominated or not. They just like spirituality and they just accept that religion .

And yes there are always generalisations based on what majority of population or significant population do.

Let me give you example When I was searching immigration to Canada for my brother I found that Canada require Police clearance certificate for the immigrants of Punjab from very high ranking officer , for all other states of India they accept whatever police clearance state police give. Why this discrimination for people of Punjab . We don't live in Punjab so no problem for my brother if he gets a visa. But why for other people of Punjab this discrimination ?

May be because Canada have seen some criminals from Punjab immgrating Canada that's why , so its a bit of generalisation

Edited by kdsingh80

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There are many spiritual paths that dont require being dominated to join...

Like Buddhism, Taoism, Wiccan, Western Esoteric, groups like Rosicrucians etc. , Native North American / Aboriginal Spiritual traditions.

There are many spiritual paths which delve deeply into meditation, prayer etc without the need to become an inferior human being and be dominated by men.

In fact I saw a show on tv awhile back about British women joining Islam and majority said they wanted to be controlled by their husbands. They 'liked' being controlled... makes them a bit masochistic I think...

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So what you appear to be saying in your last few posts Satkirin is that some/many(?) women actually willingly choose to be dominated by men. And as the OP alludes, not all of these women are unsuccessful (career-wise); or uneducated; or of low self-esteem or even generally placid.

I've met a few western raised, highly educated women who (for whatever reason), prefer, no desire, the certainty of more traditional male-female dynamic than the post-feminist one. They don't appear to be "a bit masochistic.." from what I see.

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So what you appear to be saying in your last few posts Satkirin is that some/many(?) women actually willingly choose to be dominated by men. And as the OP alludes, not all of these women are unsuccessful (career-wise); or uneducated; or of low self-esteem or even generally placid.

I've met a few western raised, highly educated women who (for whatever reason), prefer, no desire, the certainty of more traditional male-female dynamic than the post-feminist one. They don't appear to be "a bit masochistic.." from what I see.

Everyone is different. I could not handle being controlled and told always what I can or cant do by a man... but that's just my preference. There are men who like being dominated by women too.

You know prior to patriarchal societies, there were matriarchal societies where the roles were reversed. It was the advent of agriculture, and amassing of material goods that saw the rise of patriarchy. Hunter gatherer societies were much more egalitarian. It's surmised that it's because even though males did most of the hunting (not to say women didn't ever do it) and women did the gathering... but since both jobs were outside of the home, they were both valued equally. It was when women became stuck in the home, that they started to be devalued and males started to assert control over women because the work women did in the home was seen as less valuable than bringing 'something' into the home. The one who brought something into the home, brought the money into the home was valued more, so that person got all the say in family affairs. This was also around the times the patriarchal religions emerged... (I didn't make this up btw)

Anyway, yes some women for whatever reason like being controlled and dominated. Some take it very far and join BDSM communities and live as a 'slave' willingly (not just in a sexual sense). There are men who do the same. Some women are attracted to men they see as powerful... Other women want to be the powerful one.

Some Muslim women are using the rules of Islam to get what they want.... they willingly become a 'second wife' so that they can live on their own, and have a career, while having a male come by once in awhile to *you know* and have babies. But essentially they retain independence and run their own household by themselves with a husband that might come around a couple times a week to spend a bit of time. In that case, they are actually using a loophole of sorts to avoid being dominated... because each wife has their own home.

From what I read, Islam is more a solitary practice for women, while for men it's mandatorily public. There are Wiccans who solitary practice their religion and it appeals to them so maybe these women like practicing their religion in a solitary way without group rules or regulations? Many came from Christianity where there is really no 'ritual' to practice on ones own. Its more public sermons and sitting in a pew for an hour and a half. Maybe the like the ritual they can do in solitary so they actually fell like they are 'doing' something.

its a complicated world. And nothing should be forced on anyone... if someone wants to be dominated let them... if someone doesn't want to be dominated, then let them. There are plenty of men who agree on both sides of the coin so people can match up with someone who has similar views.

And yes I do think they are a bit masochistic if they want to be dominated...

Definition Of Masochism:

1. gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a

result of one's own actions or the actions of others, especially the tendency to seek this form of gratification.

2. the tendency to find pleasure in self-denial, submissiveness, etc.

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My point was that for MANY women being in a traditional dynamic IS NOT perceived as oppressive or undesirable.

(But don't take that as some sort of indication that I am a fan of such women or encouraging them to be this way).

What I'm getting at is: that for MANY women, western feminism isn't really the wonderful, liberating experience that its exponents like to project.

Some women like men who are driven, assertive and even commanding and take on the role of providers/protectors. There is an obvious evolutionary explanation for it. I understand that many don't, but even that often appears to be the consequence of an acculturation.

As you've alluded to in your post - there are no shortage of men who also like to be dominated. Maybe the issue isn't a gender one, but one based on personality types?

Edited by dalsingh101

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I agree with the personality types :)

I think some people also have wrong impression of the term 'western feminism' and equate it to Matriarchy.

Patriarchy = male dominant. Males have all onweship and control of property, control over women, alld ecision making rights. ***Can be construed by some as women hating, women supression, seeing women as children and unable to make rational decisions, incapable etc.

Feminism = neither gender dominent, co-ownership and control of peoperty, equal say in family and society, neither spouse is in control over the other. Decisions are arrived at by deliberation by both male/female. Should actually be called "Equalism" because it advocates equality for both genders. Not in any way threatening to men!!! NOT man hating!!!

Matriarchy = This is what most think of as western feminism. (but actually there were matriarchal societies prior to advent of agriculture and amassing of material goods, which sparked Patriarchy. There is much evidence even in todays world that hunter / gatherer societies where both genders contributed outside the home, share equally in decision making etc) ***Can be seen as man hating, emasculating in today's patriarchal context. Women in control, with men subordinate.

VAST majority of women who consider themselves feminists, do not want total control or men to be in submission. They do not hate men. They want both genders to equally share decision making and control. They just don't want to be seen as 'incapable' 'simple' 'inferior' or 'unable to make rational decisions regarding family and society' so they want to have equal say in things.

Having said that, as I said, there are both extremes too... some women join Islam because they are totally fine with being dominated or crave it. (by definition this IS Masochism - drawn to or tendency to find pleasure in being submissive / dominated, deprivation, degredation, inferior). The opposite is Saddism... being drawn to or deriving pleasure from degrading, humiliating, subordinating someone else.

As I said some Muslim women are finding ways to become very independent by using the system to do it... having a part time husband, their own home... where they spend most of the time on their own since he has to spend time with other family etc. These Muslim women assert this independence by being able to have careers, their own home etc. Some people are also just so passive they don't care who's in charge as long as their needs are met. However, I'd hazard a guess that majority of women all through time in Patriacrchal societies and religions, really did not wish to be dominated and wished that they were given equal opportunity. Most humans regardles of gender etc wish to have equal opportunity. If God meant otherwise, then those who were 'meant' to be in submission would have been born without will.

But anyway those who choose whatever life for themselves we should not compell. But if its forced on anyone, that is wrong.

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