Another Group Of Pakistani Men Caught Sexually Abusing Young Girls

[dalsingh101]

Now I'm not suggesting that we don't have perverts in our own community but I think enough cases have occurred of Pakistani men doing this stuff in groups for us to ask what some people may feel are politically incorrect and uncomfortable questions. And before anyone jumps in with claims of Muslimophobia please note that the BBC News report (watch the video) itself makes a point about a number of such cases being discovered involving, quote "Asian men" and that an investigation needs to take place asking why.

I know we have nonce cases in our own community but I think the frequency with which girls are targeted and abused by a group of men is something possibly peculiar to certain quarters. Especially when we usually find that the girls involved are usually from outside communities to the one the perpetrators belong to.

One reason I highlight this is because a good few years ago when some Sikh guys were talking about this very thing, they were made out to be exaggerating. Even the then police chief of the Met (head pig) had the front to suggest that these people were starting unfounded rumours. Anyway, incase any apnay are still stupid enough to think there isn't an issue:

Derby sex gang convicted of grooming and abusing girls

See video here.

A gang of men from Derby has been convicted of systematically grooming and sexually abusing teenage girls.

Many of the victims were given alcohol or drugs before being forced to have sex in cars, rented houses or hotels across the Midlands.

One girl described a sexual assault involving at least eight men.

The nine men were convicted during three separate trials, culminating in the convictions at Leicester Crown Court of the two ringleaders.

Reporting restrictions had been in place until the end of the third trial.

Twenty-seven girls came forward to say they had been victims, the youngest of whom was 12 and the oldest was 18. Convictions have been achieved for 15 of those.

Liaqat and Saddique were said to be the leaders of the gang

Abid Mohammed Saddique, 27, and Mohammed Romaan Liaqat, 28 - both married with children - were said to be the leaders of the gang.

Saddique, of Northumberland Street, Normanton, Derby, was convicted of four counts of rape as well as two counts of false imprisonment, two of sexual assault, three charges of sexual activity with a child, perverting the course of justice, and aiding and abetting rape.

Liaqat, of Briar Lea Close, Sinfin, Derby, was found guilty of one count of rape, two of sexual assault, aiding and abetting rape, affray, and four counts of sexual activity with a child.

Both pleaded guilty to causing a person under the age of 18 to be involved in pornography.

They will be sentenced on 7 January.

'Complex investigation'

Derbyshire Police said they believed no money changed hands between those involved, and said such instances of abuse were a growing problem in the UK.

Detectives said it had been the most horrendous case of sexual exploitation they had ever faced.

Continue reading the main story

“

Start Quote

We are shocked by the scale of abuse we have uncovered and the impact it has had on the girls who were the victims of these callous men”

Det Insp Sean Dawson

The undercover investigation by Derbyshire Police, Operation Retriever, was split into three trials which have run since February.

Speaking after the hearing, Det Insp Sean Dawson said: "These convictions have brought an end to a lengthy and complex investigation that has been brought to court thanks to the bravery of the victims in this case.

"These two men are predatory sex offenders who, with their associates, have systematically abused and raped teenage girls.

"We are shocked by the scale of abuse we have uncovered and the impact it has had on the girls who were the victims of these callous men.

"Child sex exploitation is something that parents and carers across the country should be aware of.

"Parents and carers should talk to their children, take an interest in what they are doing and warn them not to go off with strangers, no matter how tempting it might seem."

Thirteen men were charged in relation to Operation Retriever and 11 stood trial for a string of charges, not all sexual, relating to the case.

Of the original 13, a total of nine have been convicted of offences against vulnerable girls ranging from rape to false imprisonment.

Continue reading the main story

Other defendants have already been sentenced for their offences

Victim groomed by 'evil' sex gang

Rape gang 'targeted children'

Other defendants already convicted and sentenced were: Akshay Kumar, 38, he admitted one count of causing a person under the age of 18 to be involved in pornography and was jailed for two years and 10 months.

Faisal Mehmood, 24, pleaded guilty to sexual activity with a child before trial and was jailed for three years. He has now been deported to Pakistan.

Mohammed Imran Rehman, 26, was jailed for seven-and-a-half years after being found guilty of rape, while Graham Blackham, 26, was given a three-year sentence after he was convicted of two counts of breaching a sexual offences prevention order.

Liaqat's brother Naweed Liaqat, 33, and Farooq Ahmed, 28, pleaded guilty to perverting the course of justice and were both jailed for 18 months.

Ziafat Yasin, 31, was cleared of sex charges but pleaded guilty to being concerned in the supply of cocaine. He was jailed for three years.

Edited November 24, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Maha Singh]

Who is to blame?

Every person involved in this has a part to play, obviously the guys involved more, however the teenagers who decided to jump in the car with a stranger and indulge in alcohol and drugs should have had a touch more sense. When a car pulls up to anyone you should be wary, more when its a guy to a girl, and even more when its at night.

What these guys did is unforgivable and its a tremendous shame that they get such light sentences (2-3 yrs, and will probably do half that) for acts which will affect the victims involved and their families for the rest of their lives.

These kinds of crimes are not restricted to any community or religion, organised sex crime happens amongst whites, blacks, Asians, "muslims", "christians", hell i bet it even happens within our own community somewhere in the world.

No one, no matter what age should be forced to endure the pshycological trauma that is caused by such acts, what disgusts me more is that it wasnt just a single person who was involved, it was a number of them who were in it together and non of them had the f*cking sense to think "hey bro, this might be a bit wrong inni?".

Edited November 24, 2010 by Maha Singh

[dalsingh101]

These kinds of crimes are not restricted to any community or religion, organised sex crime happens amongst whites, blacks, Asians, "muslims", "christians", hell i bet it even happens within our own community somewhere in the world.

Fair point, but we do seem to be seeing a lot of it from P quarters in the UK and some of our people have been claiming this stuff has been going on for some time now?

There is no need to go to the exaggerated extreme of saying all of 'them' are at it, like some apnay do, but it is something to note. And even the BBC flagged the fact that a lot of 'Asian' men seemed to be getting caught at it of late.

It wasn't long ago we had this, remember:

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=13411

Edited November 24, 2010 by dalsingh101

[shaheediyan]

What these monsters did was unforgivable - and I am sure they will get their just reward.

Maha Singh has a valid point about not only the teenage girls having to share some blame, but more so, their irresponsible parents.

Regarding which 'quarter' is more involved in this activity than any others - than maybe you should look at the domination of child/girl/woman sex abuse/rape/prostitution/exploitation amongst the Eastern Europeans - who control this game not only in mainland Europe, but also the UK.

No other community even gets a look in. And these people abduct their women as well as any others they can get their hands on.

The reason Muslim women don't end up involved (in a large scale) on the victimisation end, is because they are 'generally' brought up to have more respect for themselves and not allowed to wonder around the streets half naked at 12pm.

I recall when growing up, many apnay would have a token 'white' girlfriends, with only one intention. To entetain them until their respectful girl was found from a poor family in Punjab.

The culture of these Pk (which included one Akshay Kumar..) is simply hip hop culture, I am surprised this is not getting mentioned. Even amongst the blacks in the older days - the 'entertainment' used to be targeted amongst the latino and white trash communities.

[Maha Singh]

There is a difference between "entertainment" and grooming/gang rape.

There is a difference between promiscious adults and adults targetting 12 yrs olds.

I am in no way trying to take away the spotlight from the increasing sex offences committed by Islamically inclined men. My point is that rather then targetting a single community, open your eyes to see that it happens amongst all backgrounds. No race, culture and country is imune to the Rakash Birthi.

Shaheediyan, your point that some apneh had a token white girlfriend may have been true back in the day, however, times change, cultures change and views change. Nowadays, it is not uncommon for an apna to be married with a gori, or that they are in a serious relationship. The reason why no apna kept a gori was because they knew the harshness of indian parents and that the marraige would never be accepted, so they played the field with the mindset that it is never going to amount to anything and never committed themselves to a relationship. In the same way, mixed caste marraiges were not allowed by families, however now they are being accepted (albeit reluctantly).

The fact is, when communities move from one country to another as they have in the past 50 odd years, mixing of races, relationships will always happen. Similarly, if we look back 20 yrs, there was a smaller percentage of love marraiges within our community due to the culture of how girls were kept, not being sent to university and college, not working etc whereas now girls have the freedom to work, study, go out and this will naturally increase mixing with guys.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Maha Singh

[shaheediyan]

Yes you are right to a degree, but the age range of the girls was varied, not just 12. It was more a matter of opportunity.

The apnay I speak of also didn't pay much attention to age, it was common for them to intice and go with school girls.

Another thing to consider if talking about 'communities' is the massive sex industry in India, prob the biggest in the world with high aids %. This industry is famous for grooming and kidnapping children to feed the gigantic demand, sadly, most are orphans or from very poor families, the most vulnerable.

Another thing re your point is that apnay are not just promiscious, they target (or at least used) white girls. At the same time I have grown up seeing a mentality in certain jaaths that girls from lower castes are easy game, and it is their purpose to entertain the higher castes. This sick attitude still exists in Punjab and UK today amongst certain sections of the 'higher castes'. This is no different to pk targeting non pk.

Re the lack of example re apnay - do we not run the drug and pimping trade in BC?

The biggest shame of it is the fact the we no longer have respect for apnian anymore (that doesn't justify targeting others) our girls are treated like common whores up by our own folk up and down the country, egged on by our Great portrayel of them on Brit Asia, and we have the audacity to complain if outsiders take advantage....

[drawrof]

WTR Regards to Shaheediyan's comment about British Columbia,

When a person looks at the facts in British Columbia, The punjabi commmunity does not really run anything. The problems occur at the street level. The control is in the hands of the vietnamese, Triad, and Hell's angels groups. You have the odd person trafficking here and there. Pimping is another area where there is some involvement, but nothing to the extent of what we are lead to believe.

The number of drug related deaths is unproportionately high and the media does tend to sensationalise things a bit. The youth community and those adults who are enticed by 'badmaashi' have done the typical exxageration of the situation. It is almost a hallmark of success in their eyes.

[shaheediyan]

Apologies for the exaggeration, my facts are based on news stories I have read over the years (which as you correctly say are sensationilsed) but also based on meeting what I call 'Punjabi trash' from CA who were openly proud about what they and their 'famous' cousins go up to in CA (which again as you say, is probably a slight over exaggeration).

My point was simply that we also have comparable examples - I also sadly grew up around many Sikh/Punjabi criminal elements in the areas where I lived, so know that poor education/poverty does not see faiths/cultures - where I grew up, yardies/apnay/kashmiris/pks/gorai were all up to one and the same, there were no bounderies - all were as bad as each other - this is primarily because it was a poor and rough area.

Even today, all around the world - we see the same sort of crimes - which are usually nearly always focused around poorer areas. There are always exceptions to the rule - and this is where those examples of Punjabi trash from BC can be used, youth from a stable and fairly wealthy family, who just want to live the hip hop life. These examples exist in drones in the UK, US and Punjab also. And exist in most communities all over the world.

The term 'Muslim' needs to be used carefully here. There are many succesful Muslim communities in the UK inc Iranian, Iraqi, Moroccan, Algerian, Malaysian, Indonesian, Ismaili etc. In my epxerience in latter years, I also see that the Pakistani community in London, esp where I live in SW London is hugely successful. With the Hospitals, Accountancy firms, Law firms and Public Sector filled with many PK, hell, even the MP who got Eddie Milliband into power and is now in the Shadow Cabinet, Sadique Khan is from my part of town.

I agree there does seem to be a disproportionate number of crimes commited by the PK community amongst the Asians - but this goes hand in hand with PK commnuities, particularly from the North ex-industrial areas - being very poor. Radicalisation and isolation in the UK also plays a big part. Same stigma was applied to Jamaicans before/after the Brixton riots (when most people used to associate all crime with 'blacks'), before the Africans came here and becamse so massively successful.

[dalsingh101]

I agree there does seem to be a disproportionate number of crimes commited by the PK community amongst the Asians - but this goes hand in hand with PK commnuities, particularly from the North ex-industrial areas - being very poor. Radicalisation and isolation in the UK also plays a big part.

What about the impact of cultural mindsets on the people engaging in this type of stuff as groups?

I have no doubt some haraam de apnay do bad kaam inspired stuff as individuals, but that isn't akin to what we are talking about here is it.

That being said, you right right in that there is some parallel with some sexual abuse that takes place from people perceiving themselves to be "high" caste towards those they perceive as beneath them. It's just a shame that we skirt around this issue instead of openly naming the specific 'high caste' group who does this.

[Xylitol]

Nobody is doubting that this stuff happens in all communities. And that some non-pakistani communities are also involved in a disproportionately higher number of sex crimes than other communities.

But, Has anyone here considered that the reason a disproportionately higher number of sexual assaults are committed by pakistani men has something to do with promptings from radical Muslim organisations to engage in this kind of behaviour? Once people become used to doing this kind of thing for a "cause", it's not hard to see how they could get used to doing it as part of their lifestyle, or how an atmosphere of looking away could develop. I remember threads on this not too long ago.

[dalsingh101]

Okay, so what makes 'high caste' Sikhs engage in sexual abuse as well? Is it the same mechanism or something different?

Maybe it isn't entirely religious Xyl. Maybe it is just a by product of an indoctrination of supremacy and hatred, mixed with kaam? So the perpetrators fulfill sexual urges with victims their beliefs have dehumanised in any case?

Shaheediyan is right to highlight that some of our own lot are guilty too. What makes them do it?

[Mithar]

Are there any organized Sikh groups sexually abusing women like these Pakistani men(mostly of Punjabi origin) do? Some might suggest poverty or unemployment the reason for these Pakistani men sexually exploiting women. But many Sikh men who are new to UK are also not exactly rich and it is hard for them to find employment as well, are they forming Sikhs groups to sexually exploit British women?

[tonyhp32]

As Mithar rightly pointed out there are many Sikhs in the UK who have only come here in the last few years and the majority of who are single guys who are out of their villages/towns for the first time. I have yet to hear of them taking part in similar behaviour as these Pakis have done. It's easy to look for other factors instead of the elephant in the room which is the religion and the culture that religion has brought about. I remember watching a documentary where a MP from Yorkshire said that it was well known amongst the Paki community that these things happen but they shut their eyes to it and blame it on the immorality of the girls rather than the predatory nature of their young men. The reason I cite religion is that it is well known that in Islam it is up to the women to look after her honour and safety. Imams have been known to put forward the view that any woman who wears make up or short skirts is basically asking for it. Unless the woman is wearing a tent then she is fair game and to blame for anything that happens to her. I have yet to hear this kind oft thing in a Gurdwara or heard Rabbis or Priests say the same thing.

Dalsingh you seem to have caste on your mind 24/7 which is unhealthy. There is no doubt that some spoilt son of a large landowner might take advantage of his position to abuse the daughter of a low caste labourer but equating these to the organised abuse that Pakis engage in is nonsense.

At the same time I have grown up seeing a mentality in certain jaaths that girls from lower castes are easy game, and it is their purpose to entertain the higher castes. This sick attitude still exists in Punjab and UK today amongst certain sections of the 'higher castes'. This is no different to pk targeting non pk.

I have yet to hear a bigger lie than that in defence of Pakis. He's known to defend Pakis but to claim that higher caste Sikhs are sexually abusing lower caste Sikhs in the UK shows to what lengths he goes to defend Pakis.

I am sure the families of the girls are glad there were no singhs like Shaheediyan on the jury otherwise these scumbags might have got off scott free!

Edited November 26, 2010 by tonyhp32

[dalsingh101]

Well Tony, to be frank you're doing a Paki in my mind too, in the way you turn a blind eye to all sorts of evil shite emanating from your own community.

I've heard plenty of sleazy Jatt boys making comments akin to Pakis over the years, British raised ones and pindus. Hell just a few days ago I walked out of the Gurdwara with some Jatt desi I just met and the guy had no shame in eying up some 15 year old looking gori literally outside the Gurdwara like an idiot. Even telling him we just left a Gurdwara didn't make him feel anything? Go out on the town in certain areas with a lot of desis and see how they are out and about on the pull with no shame, I've had to tell a few freshies to calm down over drunk arse goris who could barely walk as well as seriously non 'han dey kuris'.

Again, you are being a Paki because you don't want acknowledge stuff from your own quarter, which does happen frequently - NOT as exceptional cases as you make out. It is part of the cultural mindset. The Jatt rapist is a well known phenomena. Farmers need to address it.

The difference between Pakis and certain apnay is that apnay limit abuse to themselves, they don't get their cousins, mates, uncles etc. in on the act. Shaheediyan should recognise this difference for the sake of truth.

One operates as an individual one as a member of a pack. And I know Pks have been at it since AT LEAST 21 years ago, when I first encountered it. We are right to point fingers but to act like some of our own aren't nonces as well is living in pure denial.

I don't feel it is out of place to add that animals like the Paks above usually get an extra kick out of it when they get some dumb apnee in their clutches for obvious historical grudge purposes.

And I'm not a liberal type in these matters but completely blaming the stupid ass, naive bird that ends up in these situations is pretty much letting the nonce cases of the hook and lame. If some much older head took advantage of your own innocent daughter would you blame her? If so - you are a sick man.

Edited November 26, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

As I have written numerous times on other threads many people including Dalsingh101 have very little experience or knowledge of what is happening in Punjab. I doubt he's even been to a Punjabi village given the amount of ignorant statements he has made about Jats or as he refers to them farmers. Commenting on issues that one does not have much knowledge of or bringing an anecdote of a desi eyeing up a 15 year old gori as a basis for justifying ignorant remarks about Jats having a phenomena of 'rapists' within their ranks is just another manifestation of his hatred for Jats. Using the cloak of Sikhism to justify his hatred just makes him a bad the Jats he criticises. It's laughable that just because he's heard Jat guys making comments just like Pakis. I suppose he never heard any Tarkhan guy say the same thing. Talk about stereotyping, he's more like the British colonialists he claims to despise only they believed in a martial race theory and he believes in a 'rapist' Jat theory!

Let's get to the crux of the matter and look to official crime statistics and not anecdotes of Desis eyeing up Goris as a basis of our beliefs. According to the official publications, Crime in India which are similar to the crime surveys published by the UK authorities there are the figures.

Out of 15,962 crimes of rape recorded in India in 1999, 282 or 1.76% were in Punjab. Population wise Punjab is 2.50% of the total Indian population. I suppose those rapist Jats didn't have a very good year that year considering the fact that in Dalsingh's mind they do nothing but rape low castes all day. In fact the statistics state that whilst in India the incidence of rape of scheduled caste was 1000 only 7 of these were in Punjab!

On Dalsingh's favourite subject of caste, of the 14,578 offences registered under the prevention of atrocities against scheduled castes/schedules tribes act, a mere 15 were recorded in Punjab! Even the way such offences are registered is a mockery as recently a Jat father murdered a low caste guy who he discovered in the middle of the night with his daughter in a compromising position in his own house! The low caste guy had jumped a wall into the Jat's house. The Jat killed the low caste guy and guess under what act he was booked? The prevention of atrocities against scheduled castes/tribes act! How does that square with Dalsingh's idea of what is happening in Punjab? Admit it Dalsingh, you've never been to Punjab and if you have you probably spent the whole time in the company of your non-jat family probably tarkhans in a town looking down on jats and taking the piss out of them and using the term Jatboot in every sentence.

For someone who makes a great many constructive contributions to the debates on this forum, it's sad that you let your hatred of Jats come to the fore in many threads.

[Mithar]

Even the way such offences are registered is a mockery as recently a Jat father murdered a low caste guy who he discovered in the middle of the night with his daughter in a compromising position in his own house! The low caste guy had jumped a wall into the Jat's house. The Jat killed the low caste guy and guess under what act he was booked? The prevention of atrocities against scheduled castes/tribes act!

That is shocking. I remember reading this and for some agenda based reason, the leftist English media of India just has to paint the incident into a caste issue. For God sake, the old man finds a young man in bed with his daughter in his own house in the middle of the night what do you think his reaction is going to be! The man did what any Ankhi Ghairatmand Punjabi man would have done in his place.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Mithar

[dalsingh101]

Admit it Dalsingh, you've never been to Punjab and if you have you probably spent the whole time in the company of your non-jat family probably tarkhans in a town looking down on jats and taking the piss out of them and using the term Jatboot in every sentence.

For someone who makes a great many constructive contributions to the debates on this forum, it's sad that you let your hatred of Jats come to the fore in many threads.

Are you kidding me? Most of the Sikhs I mixed with growing up and even now are Jats. I've worked in many Jat majority environments over the years, be this in booze warehouses or on building sites.

It is you who acts like a proper Paki and tries to downplay and deny any sort of critical analysis of your own people. Just so you know: If I see foul behaviour from Pakis - I'll call it - you know this. If I see foul behaviour from apnay, even if they may be some group you might presume I identify with - I'll call it. Unlike yourself, I don't believe in or practice that tactic of denial and subterfuge. And I'll tell you why, so maybe you will stop doing it yourself. In the end the lies just catch up with you because denial and cover ups only lead to a situation where the foulness becomes so obvious, that you end up looking like bigger idiots trying to continue covering it up. Just like Pakis who deny this shit in their own community and just like the Jat majority have with lots of crap emanating from their quarters, stemming from their own culture or mindset. Your attempts to cover stuff up with stats is proper low but inline with what I've learned of your culture.

For the record, I'd never even heard the phrase Jattboot in my life and had only come across it before as a user name of someone on this very site. I'd only heard it was a perceived insult in the last few weeks on another forum and in that case a pendu Jatt boy was bemoaning the fact that Afghan Sikhs call his people this?? I have no sympathy - most Jats freely use derogatory terms for other Sikhs from what I've seen over the years. If Afghan Sikhs say Jattbot, jatts use bhappay all the time.

So you know, yes, I look down on Jatt culture because it is destroying Sikhi in multiple ways in my eyes. Plus the behaviour and attitude of the majority of Jatts I've met has been pretty rubbish. It's hard to see how you are any different to them. If you really care about your people you should be preoccupied with reforming the multiple corrupt philosophies that have crept within your society that normally I wouldn't care a toss about personally, but seeing as it has seriously started to infect the whole Sikh community in various ways, I am forced to face.

Edited November 26, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Xylitol]

you're comparing apples are oranges. A very high prevalence of organised gang out to rape is VERY different from individuals doing the raping. Both are reprehensible, but both are also separate topics. As far as I understood, the topic here was about organised rape. The kind that has caused so much concern in the UK for non-pakistani muslim communities. The same kind of thing which prompted websites to be put in place warning of rapes targetting sikh girls.

So it seems we have 2 closely related phenomenon, a culture which turns a blind eye to rape allowing for many random rape attacks; which is facilitated by targetted rape attacks against outsiders to that community.

[dalsingh101]

Having known a few guys who have served prison sentences fighting this stuff and faced violent reprisals, all I can ask is:

What more do you expect guys in the UK to do?

The problem it seems is now a culture of denial and hiding ugly family truths in order to save face. No, not every apnee who runs of with a sullah is being manipulated or made to do so against her will, but clearly these people will take advantage of any vulnerable non Muslim girl who falls their way.

PS - The police don't want to know and the feeling is mutual for many apnay towards having dealings with these white animals or their token pets. So don't suggest that.

Edited November 26, 2010 by dalsingh101

[jaikaara]

now why should we turn this thread into a pro jatt anti jatt ? i m not a jatt and i too have my set of complaints for them, but in the end its the same complaints i would have against any of my family members...thats human tendency no 2 humans will gel or blend so much that they dont have antyhing against each other.

jatt and bhappa mentalities are very different so its rather normal that they dont get togather.

dominance of one group is never good be it any....

[dalsingh101]

Independent article related to the thread:

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: Asian men, white women and a taboo that must be broken

Disgusting cultural beliefs validate their acts and their uncontrollable lechery is, in part a symptom of repressed sexuality and sick attitudes

Monday, 29 November 2010

I've been goaded into writing this column by the barbs and taunts, by the blame and racist toxins filling my inbox this week. At least they can no longer accuse me of "HIDING THE TRUTH!!!" Yes guys, you won. Have another large lager.

Most commentators intermittently get caught up in sudden and fierce squalls, usually when they've said something that upsets large sections of the public. In the age of the internet, these blowbacks have got nastier and more frequent. Sometimes you have to respond just to get your life back. It wasn't what I wrote or said this time, but what I am – or what they think I stand for, the outraged out there whose blood pressure rose perilously high last week.

Horrific sexual crimes against young girls were committed by a paedophile gang in Derby, a place I hardly know. Several gang members were convicted and sent down. These urban predators stalked and "chose" their victims, took them for ice creams and nice meals (treats some of the lasses had never had), drove them around in flash cars, handed out drink and cigarettes, drugged their trusting prey, then raped them over and over again, threatening them with hammers, and worse, if they told.

Such rings have been exposed before, and many others carry on without detection. It is the nightmare of every parent, and for the children who are brutalised it is the end of their innocence and a total desecration of their human rights. Men who destroy children for their own gratification roam streets in every land.

The Derby gang was all Asian except for one seasoned white abuser. Most of the Asians were Muslim Pakistanis and – apart from a few Asian and mixed-race girls who fell into their nets – their victims were almost all white. Because I am Asian and "a admin cut Muslim" and the rapists were my people committing a "Paki" crime against white females, I am guilty too, apparently, part of the evil posse.

The English Defence League and British National Party have draped bunting and bright lights around the story, the nation's virtue penetrated and torn by rapacious migrants and their sons. Two days after the Derby case, another such network was exposed – of white men in Cornwall who plucked white girls to groom, violate and control. Was theirs a lesser crime? No. It's naked racism to believe that sex assaults on white women by black or Asian men are more depraved and animalistic than those carried out by white men, who presumably remember to say "please" and "thank you" before and after.

But when I ask myself was a greater crime committed by the Asian molesters, the honest answer has to be yes. Conscientious Asian community activists in Derby have said that these criminal acts were nothing to do with race or religion. The perpetrators were bad men who did terrible things. That is surely self-delusion or a cover-up.

The official inquiry into the case concluded that the care agencies were ill-equipped to deal with the scale of the abuse being perpetrated by the gang. But it also concluded that there needs to be an honest national conversation about how exploitation in some places intersects with "culture, ethnicity and identity".

Let's begin then. Because without such an open conversation, prejudices fester and millions of Britons come to believe that serious offenders from certain ethnic and religious groups have protected status within our country.

The Cornwall and Derby villains who used girls as sex toys believed that their victims had "asked for it", which in our permissive age is an easy excuse. Very young girls are sexualised in the social environment, so paedophiles must feel they are only helping themselves to the goodies that are on offer. But in the case of the Asian men, disgusting cultural beliefs further validate their acts and their uncontrollable lechery is, in part, a symptom of repressed sexuality and sick attitudes.

Most Asian men do not go around raping young white girls and women; many have happy and equal relationships with white partners. However, an alarming number of Asian individuals, families and communities do believe that white females have no morals, are free and available, deserving of no respect or protection.

Up in Bradford a few years back, I met Muslim pimps, some wearing mini Koran pendants on heavy, gold chains. "Not our girls," they reassured me, "just them white girls from the estates, cheap girls. They love it man, all the money they make! What else will they do with their lives? We're helping them make a career."

Much laughter, until I asked them what they would do if a white pimp groomed their daughters. They would kill the pimp and the girls too, they said. They would too.

Then there was an 18-year-old white boy from Manchester who said he was lured and raped at the age of 10 by an Asian scoutmaster and his Muslim mates, who would, in public, hysterically denounce homosexuality. The double standards enable the Asian rapists to feel good, and that makes it doubly bad. Convenient myths of uprightness help hide the rape within their families too – which is why barely anyone ever reports it. The final insult is the veil of religious hypocrisy, already evident in the pimps above. Muslims and Sikhs make much public noise about the importance of religion and its intrinsic goodness. Islam and Sikhism do give women some important rights, but these are devalued in real life on a daily basis.

When deeds destroy professed religious principles, when nefarious abusers claim to be true worshippers, people rightly feel more animus and deeper repugnance. That is why paedophile Catholic priests arouse such fury. What abominable secrets and lies nestle beneath the sheets of godly and "ethnic" self-righteousness!

The injuries suffered by child victims are not determined by race or religion, but their sense of injustice is understandably much greater when their fiendish attackers believe themselves to be morally superior and therefore entitled to corrupt young flesh.

Listen to Miranda, now in her twenties, who was repeatedly raped by a British Asian pimp in Rotherham. She was also abused by her own dad when she was 11 : "Ahmed told me I was making him do it because I was sinful, not a true believer. That he would never do it if I was a Muslim. My dad would cry afterwards. I hate them both, but Ahmed was worse".

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-asian-men-white-women-and-a-taboo-that-must-be-broken-2146251.html

Edited November 30, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Dalsingh

Don't You Think if incidents like these happen again and again then more White Youths will Join/become supporter of BNP/EDL Groups.So who is main culprit here

Pakistani First came to their land for job and now they are grooming their girls.In almost all societies of world it is the right wing groups that protect

their own people.

[tonyhp32]

The thread went off on a tangent about the anti-Jat beliefs of some members purely because one member who constantly defends Muslims wanted to portray the Jats as doing the same things that these Pakis were doing. He even went on to lie that Jats in the UK have the same mentality against non-Jats. He was then joined by another Jat hater who just needs a whiff of a mention of Jats to go off on his own anti-Jat crusade even though it's obvious he hasn't even been to a Punjab and bases his hatred of Jats on the behaviour of Jat colleagues.

Are you kidding me? Most of the Sikhs I mixed with growing up and even now are Jats. I've worked in many Jat majority environments over the years, be this in booze warehouses or on building sites.

This still doesn't make you an authority on what happens in Punjab villages.

It is you who acts like a proper Paki and tries to downplay and deny any sort of critical analysis of your own people. Just so you know: If I see foul behaviour from Pakis - I'll call it - you know this. If I see foul behaviour from apnay, even if they may be some group you might presume I identify with - I'll call it. Unlike yourself, I don't believe in or practice that tactic of denial and subterfuge. And I'll tell you why, so maybe you will stop doing it yourself. In the end the lies just catch up with you because denial and cover ups only lead to a situation where the foulness becomes so obvious, that you end up looking like bigger idiots trying to continue covering it up. Just like Pakis who deny this shit in their own community and just like the Jat majority have with lots of crap emanating from their quarters, stemming from their own culture or mindset. Your attempts to cover stuff up with stats is proper low but inline with what I've learned of your culture.

There's no denial here, it's you in your ignorance thinks that Jats are all evil sharabi kababi landholders raping the lower-castes 24/7. Show me the evidence to back up your pet theory just as I shown you stats to back up my views. If there was a mass problem of Jats raping low castes in Punjab then you have the crime stats back up that fact. As I showed the stats show that show that out od about 1000 rapes in Punjab about 7 were of low castes. Remarkably low given that low castes make up about 30% of the Punjab population. I am not denying that many cases can be covered up and pay offs made to the Police but eventually most cases will make the law courts. As the stats also showed Punjab has the lowest cases of crimes against low castes recorded in India. This also shows that your views on the matter lack evidence and are based on your own and your caste groups bias against Jats. Your rant above tells me more about you than anything about so-called Jat culture. You have issues and you are no different from Bahadur in that regard, the Niddar followers did some bad things to him and he goes on rants on various forums against Sikhs and you had some bad experiences with Jats and you lose no opportunity to show your hatred of Jats. I suggest that if you have any spare time you go to Punjab and actually live in a village amongst Jats. Jats are no different from other people, there is good and bad in them but going by what views of them you display here, one would think that they are all evil and there is no redeeming trait in any of them. DO NOT base your views of Jats on idiots on sites like Jatworld and the like. If these guys went to Punjab and espoused the crud they do about how great Jats, most Jats in Punjab would just consider them as baharley idiots.

For the record, I'd never even heard the phrase Jattboot in my life and had only come across it before as a user name of someone on this very site. I'd only heard it was a perceived insult in the last few weeks on another forum and in that case a pendu Jatt boy was bemoaning the fact that Afghan Sikhs call his people this?? I have no sympathy - most Jats freely use derogatory terms for other Sikhs from what I've seen over the years. If Afghan Sikhs say Jattbot, jatts use bhappay all the time.

That was stereotyping by the way, now you know how it feels to be stereotyped! I know one member has the username Jattboot on the forum but again that just shows his own mentality and issues. I hope he also outgrows his childish hatred of Jats. As for Jats referring to other castes by derogatory terms. If you consider Mistri, Tarkhan, Chuhra or Chamar as derogatory terms then you have a point. But these are hardly the n-word are they? As for Bhappa that's a a term used mainly in Malwa but nowadays all over Punjab because pre-1947 there were hardly any Khatris in the area. When they migrated to Malwa in 1947 and they way they addressed their elders as 'Bhappaji' had never been heard by Jats before. So they started to refer to Khatris as Bhappas.

So you know, yes, I look down on Jatt culture because it is destroying Sikhi in multiple ways in my eyes. Plus the behaviour and attitude of the majority of Jatts I've met has been pretty rubbish. It's hard to see how you are any different to them. If you really care about your people you should be preoccupied with reforming the multiple corrupt philosophies that have crept within your society that normally I wouldn't care a toss about personally, but seeing as it has seriously started to infect the whole Sikh community in various ways, I am forced to face.

So tell me what exactly is the Jat culture that is destroying Sikhi?

Edited November 30, 2010 by tonyhp32

[dalsingh101]

Tony

You just got every textbook excuse in the book to avoid facing the truth and dealing with the bull that emanates from your people. No hope of reform, or maybe, just maybe change it is inevitably already taking, no thanks to crusty myopic 'sons of farmers' like you. If your people wont reform and reflect on your own accord, God's going to force you to. Just don't feign surprise and shock when much of the rest of the quom is disgusted with their interaction with your peeps.

Anyway, I know how your people are most happy when rabbiting on about yourselves and how great you are. I'm not going to indulge you. Let time answer everything.

Meanwhile - watch out for perverts everyone, especially in the UK.

Edited November 30, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Mithar]

Being from Punjab I have to say that what we read about in the English Indian media is largely a load of crap. Yes caste based issues do exist in Punjab, but go to any other place in India, Punjab is the least discriminatory against low castes and even against other religions, if you go to any other part of North India (or any other part of India for that matter, low castes are treated with the most disrespect imaginable).

As for rural Jat boys, from my experience they are no different than other rural boys belonging to other castes, in fact I would say from their behavior they are indistinguishable from other rural Punjabi boy belonging to other castes. If anyone thinks that Jat boys do not harass Jattis and only harass so called "lower" caste girls then they have never been to rural Punjab. Boys harassing girls is not a problem associated with a particular caste, you will see this behavior amongst all boys in India. One might say, it is almost like a part of modern day Indian culture to harass young girls but even that cannot be compared to Pakistani gangs pimping and sexually exploited white British women. The British let them in to their country and to have a good life in a modern western country and this is how the Pakis repay the British by exploiting their women! Disgusting! Sharam Nahi Aundhi!