Can A Sikh Do Namaz?

[Xylitol 1,290]

I'm pretty sure people of that avastha don't spend time debating on internet message boards

And since you're willing to re-examine standard interpretations of a bani, as a seeker should be, perhaps you could start by taking a look at Guru tells us to do. Learn about the Guru's teachings from the sants. Otherwise you will never reach all of those stages you mention in the above post, although you may reach a few of the lower ones.

[Mr Sardar 418]

Standard depends where you go 3ho can be standard for many people while akj can be standard there- separtist vs pluraist. Bani also talks about the most religious people being corrupt. Sants are key to definition- they can be all sangat be it Sikh or even everyone- Guru Nanak time sants were pirs and sadhus. Now it is the standard scam artists asking for donation only to pocket it themself. Show me a real sant that is perfect and has no flaw in there character that even in there footstep they kill no insect in there breath they kill no bacteria, that are even beyond again paap. We all have kamai to even be humans, and if someone has avastha why would they become a sanyasi when Guru Nanak went to siddhas to tell them they are doing wrong by staying away from society not to bring there goodness to others. Also I have met Christians and Muslims who have reached ruihana stage- light pouring out of face.

Edited December 14, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[Xylitol 1,290]

Standard depends where you go 3ho can be standard for many people while akj can be standard there- separtist vs pluraist. Bani also talks about the most religious people being corrupt. Sants are key to definition- they can be all sangat be it Sikh or even everyone- Guru Nanak time sants were pirs and sadhus. Now it is the standard scam artists asking for donation only to pocket it themself. Show me a real sant that is perfect and has no flaw in there character that even in there footstep they kill no insect in there breath they kill no bacteria, that are even beyond again paap. We all have kamai to even be humans, and if someone has avastha why would they become a sanyasi when Guru Nanak went to siddhas to tell them they are doing wrong by staying away from society not to bring there goodness to others. Also I have met Christians and Muslims who have reached ruihana stage- light pouring out of face.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is in relation to the 2 posts you have written above?

[Bundha 25]

Standard depends where you go 3ho can be standard for many people while akj can be standard there- separtist vs pluraist. Bani also talks about the most religious people being corrupt. Sants are key to definition- they can be all sangat be it Sikh or even everyone- Guru Nanak time sants were pirs and sadhus. Now it is the standard scam artists asking for donation only to pocket it themself.

Bhaji , what point are you trying to make other then random babble ?

Show me a real sant that is perfect and has no flaw in there character that even in there footstep they kill no insect in there breath they kill no bacteria, that are even beyond again paap. We all have kamai to even be humans,

A real sant is only revealed to one who is worthy. I doubt very much if we are worthy, we would not recognise a true sant if he/she stood infront of us.

Giving and taking of life is in the hands of Akaal Purkh, if that means that an insect is to end its life under the foot of a human, or sant or anything else this is for Guru to decide.

and if someone has avastha why would they become a sanyasi when Guru Nanak went to siddhas to tell them they are doing wrong by staying away from society not to bring there goodness to others.

It is some peoples call to just do tapasia, that is their calling from Akaal Purkh, I wouldn't knock it. Grist jeevan has been given great respect by Guru Ji, yet one of Guru Ji's closest Gursikh, Bhai Gurdas Ji, never married.

Also I have met Christians and Muslims who have reached ruihana stage- light pouring out of face.

You are very quick to dismiss sants, yet are taken in by Christians and Muslins? Ruihana stage is no big deal.

[Mr Sardar 418]

I dismiss Sants when they start asking people for money i.e. buying yourself a place in heaven. Please if you know any real sants do tell me.

Is it also in akal purkhs hukam for you not to wake up at amritvela take ishnan and do nitnem, or to do nindya, chuglia and swearing or to stab someone in the back, to lie and cheat to them, to commit adultery, to drink (do nasher), to cut your kesh?

Please elaborate on what is past ruihana stage, then why so much corruption at some of the highest levels of the Sikh clergy, gianis and raagis corruption? What is wrong with recognising the whole of humanity as one and the same?

Edited December 17, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[Mithar 980]

I dismiss Sants when they start asking people for money i.e. buying yourself a place in heaven. Please if you know any real sants do tell me.

Is it also in akal purkhs hukam for you not to wake up at amritvela take ishnan and do nitnem, or to do nindya, chuglia and swearing or to stab someone in the back, to lie and cheat to them, to commit adultery, to drink (do nasher), to cut your kesh?

Please elaborate on what is past ruihana stage, then why so much corruption at some of the highest levels of the Sikh clergy, gianis and raagis corruption? What is wrong with recognising the whole of humanity as one and the same?

Brother, it's strange that you see only bad in Sikh Sants/Gianis (without seeing any good), yet you see divine light pouring out of the faces of Christian and Muslim holy men with out seeing anything bad in them (I could point a lot of bad things about them, but what's the point? since I myself am not perfect!)

Instead of only looking at the bad in Sikh Sants and Gianis today, why not get inspired by the jeevanis of Baba Budha Jee, Bhai Mani Singh Jee, Baba Deep Singh Jee, Bhai Taru Singh Jee and countless other Bhagats in Sikh history. Even today, we have Mahapursh like Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowalwalay who inspire Sikhs all over the world to do Bhagti, keep Amritvela and Rehit. So great Sikh saints are there, it is just a matter of you choosing whether you want to look at those examples or not.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Mithar

[Xylitol 1,290]

I dismiss Sants when they start asking people for money i.e. buying yourself a place in heaven. Please if you know any real sants do tell me.

Is it also in akal purkhs hukam for you not to wake up at amritvela take ishnan and do nitnem, or to do nindya, chuglia and swearing or to stab someone in the back, to lie and cheat to them, to commit adultery, to drink (do nasher), to cut your kesh?

Please elaborate on what is past ruihana stage, then why so much corruption at some of the highest levels of the Sikh clergy, gianis and raagis corruption? What is wrong with recognising the whole of humanity as one and the same?

You're being contrary for the sake of being contrary. And by doing that you don't find truth, you only get mired deeper in negativity.

How many sants have asked you for money? probably none.

Why does it matter to you that so many don't practice what they preach? Bani teaches us that this is simply how people are. Sikhi is about our relationship with the Guru, not the relationship of others.

having light shining from the face can happen at a pretty low stage. it's unrelated to clergy b/c various positions in sgpc have nothing to do with avastha (spiritual level).

feel free to recognise humanity as the same. but an intellectual recognition is nowhere near the same as seeing God in everyone the way Bhai Ghanaya ji did, that was a spiritual recognition. He SAW God in everyone, didn't just believe that God was in everyone. It was a matter of knowing and experiencing, vs. believing.

i'm not going to bother writing a detailed post on the various avasthas that come after this low level stage b/c you're just being contrary for the sake of being contrary. if you want information, the best attitude is to search with an empty cup so satguru can fill it with knowledge. you have a full cup (of your own baggage), so where is the knowledge going to go???

[Mr Sardar 418]

So please elaborate on the stages of avastha if you can?

[Xylitol 1,290]

listen to Sant Ka Marg Dharam Ki Pauri (both of them) http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Kartar_Singh_%28Bhindran_wale%29

Listen to Sant Isher Singh ji's kathas, especially atmik bachan http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_%28Rara_Sahib_wale%29/Aatamik_Bachan

Parmarathak Badan Simran Dia Jugtiaa - http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_%28Rara_Sahib_wale%29/051-100

I'm sure others can mention kathas which are just as deep or deeper that discuss the deeper aspects of this marg. Kam once mentioned Sant Waryam Singh ji ratwara sahib as speaking more openly about the deep spiritual stuff than other kathakars. I haven't listened to much of his katha.

There is also Sant Gurbachan Singh ji's Guru Granth Sahib ji katha.

I believe Neo translated Giani Thakur Singh ji's atam gian katha, it's on this board. less deep than sant isher singh ji's i think.

Discourses on the Beyond series of books (available in english) is an excellent source of info. Atam Marg magazine is also fantastic.

I don't know if any of these mention light shining from the face stage. it's a low stage, i know singhs who have that. one on this board had that. when sikhs get this stage, they do ardass to guru ji to hide the light inside so people won't try to touch their feet etc. i don't think it's regarded as necessarily any sort of important discrete stage.

stages of spiritual growth book by hardial singh is amazing, and discusses stages step by step.

[Mr Sardar 418]

Where can you get the stages of spiritual growth book by hardial singh from?

[Xylitol 1,290]

i don't know. i happened to run across it at some obscure library in b.c. a long time ago.

[gsinghysingh 1]

Fateh

Look deep inside, this has nothing to do with nimaz or path.....WaheGuru/Allah is within in you, not in the sky.

Religion in a whole is dying, face it. You talk about being alienated, and put muslims and christians on a par to sikhi . Veer ji there are loads of people claiming to have the best religion, there are even more who claim to be of that religion who are no were near it. The blessed sikh/muslim/christian is the one who can feel akal when he/she does something wrong/right, morning and night.

In gurbani there is an ang that talks about a man being lonely, no home, spouse, friend, relations and walks in rags but he is truley the king of the world when he has akal on his mind 24/7.

Your worldy relationships have come to a stop veer ji, theres no one that can give you that kick start, maybe some muslim/christian friend have given you a fresh outlook on things but even if you converted, lets just say. veer ji you are going in the same direction because you need to forget about ways of seeking akal physically, you have already found him, i think you just need his darshan............look inside, meditate on naam, you dont need, religious names, freinds, stories....make your own with him.

I pray for you veer and everyone else.......Akal bless

[Mr Sardar 418]

Now that's the best post I have read on this thread so far.

[Mr Sardar 418]

Although I still recommend passing a rehat maryada for the noition against namaz as it is not in gurmat however still to be respected.

[Mr Sardar 418]

We are probably going to turn the kabbah in mecca into a Gurdwara. However Sikhi needs to be reformed and brought back in Majjah- amritsar properly first most of our jathedhars are corrupt- we need full nitnemi singhs and granthis. The Sikhs in punjab need to be doing nitnem then after we can take back pakistan.

Karni Nama

While Guru Nanak was in Mecca and Medina, Qazi Rukan Din asked, True King, tell us your prophecy again. Tell us how you will unfold the future?. Your name is Nanak Nirankari and you are from the Nation of the Lord. What are the instructions for the future?

Nanak replied to Rukan Din, listen to the true answer Whosoever reads or listens to this shall be content. All doubts shall be removed.

In the tenth dress shall reside The Lord. I shall fight many battles against Emperor Aurangzeb.

I shall then send a letter of victory (Zafarnamah) to Aurangzeb with my Singh (Bhai Daya Singh).

Upon seeing him, Power shall lessen and he shall forget his devious ways.

Emperor Aurangzeb will be overwhelmed by the sight of Daya Singh and will start to tremble.

The Khalsa been resurrected! Good has not been done by Gobind Singh? I shall leave having given a kingdom; My name being Gobind

There will be a time when the Khalsa shall forget the teachings I have given them. Sikhi will only be left in name. Many Wars shall occur.

I will have to return again to resurrect the Khalsa. They shall reside in the Punjab.

I shall make people from all four corners into one. They will be in Majjha; They will raid Lahore.

They will bring Potohaar to justice; They will take Peshawar.

They will set up a cantonment at Attock and then open the Khyber Pass.

They will establish a kingdom in Kabul and then take Ghazni. After bringing Hazaara to justice they will march on to Kandahar.

After taking Balack and Buckaara, they will conquer Sindh and Baloch.

After gaining victory over these lands they shall govern all the people.

Mecca, Medina and Rome shall tremble. They shall gain victory in battle over south and west India.

The Guru's Army shall sit at the throne of Delhi. Umbrellas of kingship shall sway over their heads. All shall be content.

From East to West all shall be conquered. None shall challenge the Khalsa. All humanity shall become one.

In the kingdom of the True King, Satjug shall be established.

The Khalsa Panth shall rule. The arrows of death shall not touch them.

The Army of the Timeless shall grow and spread like locusts.

All shall wear vestments of blue; no one else shall be seen. Listen Qazi Rukan Din, The Singhs shall rule.

The Unholy Sheikhs shall be destroyed. Pirs and Mureeds shall be no more.

All shall recite the one name of the Lord. Then he shall come himself.

The untrue shall not be able to see his glory. All humanity shall unite and he will distribute provinces.

The Earth shall give food and the mountains shall give diamonds.

Fruits of many kinds there shall be, upon the sight of the timeless. All shall recite VAHEGURU and achieve salvation.

Many Dharamsalas (places of discussion) shall exist. The Koran and the Mosques shall vanish.

The Lord shall manifest himself in body (as man).

He will make all utter VAHEGURU. All Singhs shall flock under his banner.

All shall know him as the True One. He will sit at the throne of Delhi.

He will establish a kingdom of peace and no enemies will remain.

Wherever the Khalsa turns his eye, the 14 realms shall tremble.

For 14,000 years, this kingdom shall remain. Wealth will be collected and food shall be distributed.

The naked and the starving shall all receive; no one will go without.

Sayeth Nanak, Rukan Din, This is how it shall be. Whosoever reads the Karni Namah, his love with The Lord shall grow.

The Word of the Timeless shall prevail. Those uttering falsehood shall not remain.

After the effect of The Akaal, forests, mountains and the world shall see salvation.

The Khalsa shall Rule. There will be no-one left to oppose them. All who are lost shall gain the safety of the Khalsa

Raj Nama

Spoken by the First Master First, Nanak went to Mecca; Medina he afterwards visited.

The lord of Mecca and Medina, Kaarun, he made his disciple. When Nanak was about to depart,

Kaarun, the fortunate, thus spoke:

Now thou art about to go, But when wilt thou return?

Then the Guru thus answered:

When I put on my tenth dress I shall be called Gobind Singh; Then shall all Singhs wear their hair;

They shall accept the 'Pahal' of the two-edged Sword Then shall the Khalsa be established;

Then shall men exclaim 'Vaheguru' The four races shall become one and the same;

The five weapons shall be worn by all. In Kalyug they shall array themselves in vestments of blue;

The name of the Khalsa shall be everywhere. In the time of Aurangzeb

The wondrous Khalsa shall arise. Then shall battles be waged, Endless war shall ensue,

And fighting shall follow year after year. They shall place the name of Gobind Singh in their hearts.

When many heads shall be rendered up, The Empire of the Khalsa shall prevail.

First, they shall conquer Punjab; Then other countries shall be theirs;

Hindustan and the North shall be possessed by them; Then the west shall bow to them.

When they enter Khorasan, Kabul and Kandahar shall lie low.

When Iran has been laid prostrate, Arabia shall be conquered and they shall march on to Mecca.

Mecca shall be beheld, And Medina shall be seized.

Mighty shall be the rejoicing, And all shall exclaim 'Vaheguru'.

Unbelievers shall everywhere be destroyed; The holy Khalsa shall be exalted.

Beasts and Birds shall tremble in the presence of the Lord.

Men and Women shall everywhere call on God. The Earth, the Oceans and the Heavens shall call on God.

By calling on the Guru shall men be blessed. Every faith shall become of the Khalsa;

No other religion will remain. 'Vaheguru' shall everywhere be repeated,

And pain and trouble shall depart. In the Kalyug shall the Kingdom be established,

Which Nanak received from the Lord. Worthless, I fall before God;

Nanak, the slave, cannot comprehend the ways of the Lord. Thus replied Nanak to Kaarun's question.

Note the couplets " I shall return to resurrect the Khalsa", "All shall wear vestments of blue", "All Sikhs shall flock under his banner." These statements do not hang well with these sects. Their 'Guru' has not reserected the Khalsa so it follows that any second coming of Guru Gobind Singh Ji is yet to come. All shall wear blue, this is one of the colours of the Khalsa, most sects wear white. All Sikhs shall frock under his banner, most Sikhs reject these sects so it cannot be talking about them.

One boat is preserved at Uchch wherein Guru Nanak and Makhdum of Uchch travelled together to Mecca.

Urdu textbook which contained a poem by Iqbal in which he had paid rich tribute to him:.

The land where, Chishti delivered the message of truth.

The land where Nanak sang the song of God's oneness,

The land where the Tatars made their home,

The land which lured the Arabs from Arabia,

That land is my home, that is my home.

[Crystal 135]

Taken from Facebook

[harsharan000 1,819]

Can A Sikh Do Namaz?
By Mr Sardar, December 5, 2010 in Sikhism.

 

Brother,

for sure one should do namaaz, not once, twice, or be it a 101 times, if it could only take you nearer towards Waheguru.

According to the teachings of Guru Sahiban and Bhagat Jan, that Akhoot Jot, Anhad Bani, Amrit Bani, Nam, Shabad Guru, the true and eternal reality,  is not anywhere outside, but right within us. 

So brother, in reality, any practice which does not take us to our beloved Akal Purukh, but keep us confined in the mayavee mental spheres, should be discarded.

For it is Waheguru Akal Purukh only, what counts for us, every other thing which does not take us towards Him, is just"koor";  so as such, should be discarded at the earliest, and do only that what pleases Him.

Stay blessed.

SSA.

 

[jaikaara 1,194]

12 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

Can A Sikh Do Namaz?
By Mr Sardar, December 5, 2010 in Sikhism.

 

Brother,

for sure one should do namaaz, not once, twice, or be it a 101 times, if it could only take you nearer towards Waheguru.

According to the teachings of Guru Sahiban and Bhagat Jan, that Akhoot Jot, Anhad Bani, Amrit Bani, Nam, Shabad Guru, the true and eternal reality,  is not anywhere outside, but right within us. 

So brother, in reality, any practice which does not take us to our beloved Akal Purukh, but keep us confined in the mayavee mental spheres, should be discarded.

For it is Waheguru Akal Purukh only, what counts for us, every other thing which does not take us towards Him, is just"koor";  so as such, should be discarded at the earliest, and do only that what pleases Him.

Stay blessed.

SSA.

 

absolutely ! do namaz and get khatna done too...follow what the Messenger of Allah said ...and that start believing that the last messenger is (SAW) ..end of the story !

[dalsingh101 4,434]

Why would someone want to do namaz anyway? With Gurbani we get to understand what is being relayed because the language is a lot more familiar. 

[harsharan000 1,819]

55 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Why would someone want to do namaz anyway? With Gurbani we get to understand what is being relayed because the language is a lot more familiar. 

True, and well said.

But above any other things, with Gurbani alone we become better human beings and become one with Waheguru.

So no need for anything else from anyone.

Gurbani is the highest truth.

SSA.

[dalsingh101 4,434]

8 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

True, and well said.

But above any other things, with Gurbani alone we become better human beings and become one with Waheguru.

So no need for anything else from anyone.

Gurbani is the highest truth.

SSA.

And look at how some of the people who do namaaz behave. Look at the rampant rapists and sadists that made up ISIS and the groomers in the UK. (Not saying that all sullay are like this though, but enough to make it noticeable).

Personally I feel sorry for many of the people from Indic backgrounds (like paks or bengalis) whose ancestors became sullay (under whatever circumstances). Now they are stuck with doing prayers that they can't really understand. If they were tied to Gurbani, they'd be familiar with much more of the grammar/syntax and language. Instead they have to subordinate themselves to Arabic culture. 

We are blessed that our ancestors never took that path.  

[dalsingh101 4,434]

I bet that the focus was on doing namaaz 'religiously' here over anything else:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7513249/Inside-house-torture-Islamic-boarding-school-students-tortured-sodomised.html

[Soulfinder 1,433]

I remember hearing a saakhi where Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Nanaksar Wale said to a famous to stop reading Islamic books literature because if his last thought before dying thinks about he will be born a muslim.

[Soulfinder 1,433]

2 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

I remember hearing a saakhi where Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Nanaksar Wale said to a famous to stop reading Islamic books literature because if his last thought before dying thinks about he will be born a muslim.

Here is the original thread where daas read the saakhi from. Also i have copied and pasted the original thread text on this post

Once a famous raagi singh brought a book  to Baba Ishar Singh Ji. Baba Ji asked what it was. Ragi replied this is the granth of Muhammad Sahb.

Baba Ji replied smilingly , " Take this granth away from us, we only read the Granth of One at whose door millions Muhammad bow down. Ragi Singh, beware! do not read these granths, if at your last moment your surti stays with it, you will have to be born in a muslim family & get circumcised,  baba Ji said jokingly.

 

 

 

 

[samurai2 117]

@Soulfindernice findings.

@dalsingh101.. you have normally questioned sants bachans. So why all of a sudden you 'liking shit?'

Like without asking book reference questions?..what the deal man?