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Very Interesting Critique Of Sgpc Rehat Maryada By Taksaal

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They are both about 7/8 minutes long. Very interesting critique of the SGPC rehat maryada from Damdami Taksaal representatives. I think it may epitomise the position of sampardayas towards perceived modern innovations in the panth to an extent. Some powerful arguments are presented in my opinion.

Part 1

Part 2

Edited by dalsingh101

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They are both about 7/8 minutes long. Very interesting critique of the SGPC rehat maryada from Damdami Taksaal representatives. I think it may epitomise the position of sampardayas towards perceived modern innovations in the panth to an extent. Some powerful arguments are presented in my opinion.

Part 1

Part 2

It is always easy to criticise but what Solution Taksal has to offer for the unity of Panth.Bhai ji was saying that we have maryada of Bhai nand lal,Bhai daya singh then why do we need another maryada but if we look at Taksal maryada it is also nowhere close to them

and differ with them,now why taksal have different maryada? why don't they follow maryada of Puratan sikhs

If we don't have centralised Rehat maryada's then many more maryada's will erupt in sikhism in coming years

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It is always easy to criticise but what Solution Taksal has to offer for the unity of Panth.

Well, it's not like their own statement is beyond critique itself. That being said, the bravest Sikh leader in modern times comes from Taksaal, Giani Thakur Singh from the Taksaal is considered a parchaar tour de force in these modern times, who single handedly is making a big difference.

Bhai ji was saying that we have maryada of Bhai nand lal,Bhai daya singh then why do we need another maryada but if we look at Taksal maryada it is also nowhere close to them and differ with them,now why taksal have different maryada? why don't they follow maryada of Puratan sikhs

Fair point. You could also say they ignore all modern scholarship dismissing it as 'kitaabi vidwaani'.

If we don't have centralised Rehat maryada's then many more maryada's will erupt in sikhism in coming years

They'll just add to the collection that already exists. I think today, Rehat Maryada is becoming more and more 'guilty by association' for some because of it's historical link with the SGPC?

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Fair point. You could also say they ignore all modern scholarship dismissing it as 'kitaabi vidwaani'.

Taksaali maryada also say that meat eating is one of the four kurehit While Nihangs say that chatka was performed

at akal takhat upto early 20th century So who is following puratan source? Taksaal or nihangs?

They'll just add to the collection that already exists. I think today, Rehat Maryada is becoming more and more 'guilty by association' for some because of it's historical link with the SGPC?

Sikhism at present badly needs central authority and unity.unfortunately division among sikhs is becoming greater and greater.All sects just care about themselves and bash SGPC,Akal takhat.

Edited by kdsingh80

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I take all these claims of 'my rehat's older than yours' claims with a pinch of salt. It seems the original rehat was a made of a few ordinances which through the next 300 years any tim dick and harry has had an attempt at adding to with whatever whim took their fancy. If you follow a Rehat then follow it to the core but do not take your following a particular rehat at an invitation to attack all the others.

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All the rehets are very similar with a few differences. SGPC maryadha is good, but it's just the part of having 5 nitnemi banis instead of 7 that I can't seem to agree with. Taksal's maryadha is also good, it has the 7 nitnemi banis. But yes, Sikhs do need to have a centralized maryadha.

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I also want to add we need kitaabi vidwaan as well as spiritual vidwaan in quom.Both have their own importance.

If tommorow difference arise in a court of non sikhs whether a person is a sikh or not then kitaabi vidwaan can only provide solution to the court.

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All the rehets are very similar with a few differences. SGPC maryadha is good, but it's just the part of having 5 nitnemi banis instead of 7 that I can't seem to agree with. Taksal's maryadha is also good, it has the 7 nitnemi banis. But yes, Sikhs do need to have a centralized maryadha.

That is a serious issue though isn't it. Of all things to get wrong for a religious community, few things could be worse than the prescribed prayers. Especially when reciting them during important life ceremonies like taking Amrit.

Maybe we just have to learn to live with slightly different rehats/maryadas. We can say (with hindsight) that the Singh Sabha plan to centralise in a conclusive manner hasn't quite happened, and it doesn't look like it ever will to me?

Addition: Unless someone does an 'Islam' and burns all copies of the variants bar the rehat maryada......which is now impossible anyway thanks to the interweb thingy.

Edited by dalsingh101

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Taksal claims to have a copy fo Bhai Mani Singh ji's handwritten gutka sahib, upon which they base their nitnem. They also state that they have a handwritten rahit pothi written by Bhai Mani Singh ji. I would love to hear a recording of Sant Jagjit Singh ji discussing these, as I believe he has had darshan of them both.

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Taksal claims to have a copy fo Bhai Mani Singh ji's handwritten gutka sahib, upon which they base their nitnem. They also state that they have a handwritten rahit pothi written by Bhai Mani Singh ji. I would love to hear a recording of Sant Jagjit Singh ji discussing these, as I believe he has had darshan of them both.

Is there any plan to digitise the manuscripts they possess before the elements destroy them? Plus to give the wider sangat darshan?

I'm sure PDL would do the job.

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I have to add, one problem with really traditional types is that they go ape when anyone questions the veracity of established traditions. Like whether particular artifacts are indeed what they are claimed to be.

On one hand this is understandable with efforts to dismiss large parts of Sikh tradition as purely pious fiction (i.e. McLeodian style of propaganda), whilst on the other hand some level of discrimination to protect against falseness in such things isn't a bad thing at all in my view.

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Another intersting point about the 'Taksal Maryada' is that it's the same as the Maryada followed by most Nirmala Sampardas as well, the ones who believe in Khandey Bhattey Da Amrit, anyway. e.g. Most of Bhai Daya Singh Samparda ( Hoti Mardan, etc) etc.

The SGPC system is really lacking from a spiritual point of view. If they had listened to all the Mahapursh who tried to contribute during its formation then it would have been ok.

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Taksaali maryada also say that meat eating is one of the four kurehit While Nihangs say that chatka was performed

at akal takhat upto early 20th century So who is following puratan source? Taksaal or nihangs?

Taksal do not say eating meat is kurehit, i took amrit from taksal, and they said only halal is kurehit, and Giani Thakur Singh has also said that Khalsa Panth is not vaishno panth. The taksal steek i read a while ago, also said khalsa panth is not a vaishno panth.

The main complaint about sgpc, is that they failed to understand the essence of certain banis, especially dasam bani, and have changed it a bit.

one of the things that sgpc did was stop the benti chaupi at the line before "kirpa kari ham par jag mata" saying this was an invocation of Durga, so i can understand when taksalis say things like this.

Edited by chatanga1

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Taksal do not say eating meat is kurehit, i took amrit from taksal, and they said only halal is kurehit, and Giani Thakur Singh has also said that Khalsa Panth is not vaishno panth. The taksal steek i read a while ago, also said khalsa panth is not a vaishno panth.

The main complaint about sgpc, is that they failed to understand the essence of certain banis, especially dasam bani, and have changed it a bit.

one of the things that sgpc did was stop the benti chaupi at the line before "kirpa kari ham par jag mata" saying this was an invocation of Durga, so i can understand when taksalis say things like this.

Thanks for info ,but their website is putting it under kurehit

http://www.damdamitaksaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=80&Itemid=68&limitstart=15

also lots of taksaali singh posters on SS have same views that meat is kurehit

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I think taksal in India is much more ortodox in nature than what we see in in the taksali gurdwaras here in Europe. Dasam parkash, hawan in some places, study of vedant and sanskrit etc etc....

Edited by amardeep

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I had the giani at the Gurdwara try to give me a lecture about following Akal Takhat maryada etc. I don't think they are too keen on me doing the longer DDT reharas? He seemed to be against sampardayas? I just told him that the sampardayas can turn around and say that they have older maryadas and that they can say that the SGPC were historically politically influenced by goray.

That's another thing though, like when you sometimes go for a congregational prayer at the Gurdwara and they do the other shorter reharas, it feels like you've missed some out. I mean, I'm not knocking anyone doing the shorter one because in this day and age, with things being as they are, apnay doing any prayers at all is a good thing - short or otherwise.

But yes, it does feel a bit 'something' that I can't quite put my finger on.

Back to the thread. One thing that no one can deny is how DDT have put themselves squarely on the Sikh map with their actions over the last few decades. They also don't have the stigma of 'political sellout gundh' the SGPC have now. They've so far managed to keep themselves pure of all that. I don't agree with every single opinion from them but one thing no one can ever say about them is that they are sell outs. They manage to reach the masses better than anyone else too.

Edited by dalsingh101

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I think the Panth maryada has been misunderstood..Its meant as minimum guidelines, not fixed guidelines.. there was controversy over the lenght of banis, so they fixed MINUMUMS that should be read so all jathas, samprdayas etc were satisfied.. meaning if u wish to read more then please do so..

There was an incident where a person came up to Jarnail Singh Bhinderwalaya and asked him which rehit he should follow.. he said follow that of Akal Thakht... Then the DDT singhs asked him why he did'n tell him to follow the DDT rehit... then Babaji said that this rehit is only for members of this dera, while the one for Akal thakht is for the entire panth...

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Thanks for info ,but their website is putting it under kurehit

yeah, ive had a look, and its basically just copy and paste of sikhitothemax translations, which are not always accurate. But check out Giani Thakur Singh katha on this subject.

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On 1/25/2011 at 3:26 AM, dalsingh101 said:

They are both about 7/8 minutes long. Very interesting critique of the SGPC rehat maryada from Damdami Taksaal representatives. I think it may epitomise the position of sampardayas towards perceived modern innovations in the panth to an extent. Some powerful arguments are presented in my opinion.

 

 

Part 1

 

Part 2

It's not like the sampardas have the most genuine Maryada either.  The Singh Sabhas did their khoj, they made mistakes but it's not indicative of the Sampardas bearing orginal Gurmat Rehat Maryada.

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On 1/26/2011 at 11:26 AM, Matheen said:

Another intersting point about the 'Taksal Maryada' is that it's the same as the Maryada followed by most Nirmala Sampardas as well, the ones who believe in Khandey Bhattey Da Amrit, anyway. e.g. Most of Bhai Daya Singh Samparda ( Hoti Mardan, etc) etc.

 

The SGPC system is really lacking from a spiritual point of view. If they had listened to all the Mahapursh who tried to contribute during its formation then it would have been ok.

That's because they all sprouted from the Nirmalas. 

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On 1/26/2011 at 3:06 PM, dalsingh101 said:

One thing that no one can deny is how DDT have put themselves squarely on the Sikh map with their actions over the last few decades. They also don't have the stigma of 'political sellout gundh' the SGPC have now. They've so far managed to keep themselves pure of all that. I don't agree with every single opinion from them but one thing no one can ever say about them is that they are sell outs. They manage to reach the masses better than anyone else too.

Are Dhumma and Rhode not sellouts?  There are certain contemporaries that don't find certain Taksali figures (not including Shaheed Jathedar Gyani Gurdev Singh Kaunke) to be "pure".  There are a lot of sellouts in Taksal too, the Mehta brush just paints them otherwise.  Taksal as of now, is as bad as the SGPC of today. 

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The SGPC Rehat Maryada relied more on Khoj then "Seeneh Baseeneh di Chali aayi Maryada" which frankly is quite questionable, especially with practices and beliefs that these Sampardas are propagating and practicing now.

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