amardeep Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Has anyone heard about the 1001 arabian nights? The setting, the themes of the stories etc. all are very similiar to that of the Charitro Pakhyaan. Is it possible that Maharaj was trying to collect the stories around him and compose a new "arabian nights" composition? Watch this short documentary in 8 parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhnISVeztpY The similarities are stunning. I wonder why no one has ever made this comparison earlier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Only some parts are similar, but when morality is concerned, there are bound to be similarities. You find the link on facebook? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) The 'overview' angle used in both are curious. Seems to suggest it wasn't an unusual literary form around those times. I'm referring to how the multiple tales are interwoven with a larger narrative, in the case of CP it being the efforts of the minister to prevent his king killing his son over the adulterous allegations. I wonder if Rhinehart picks up on this in her book? Edited March 3, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Dalsingh yes exactly.. More research should be done on this like a comparative analysis of the two.. it can't be a coincidence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) I think an important difference may be that certain tales in the Arabian nights seem to be continuations of previous ones, whilst all of the CP ones' seem to be standalone or independent? One can see a list of tales from AN here: http://www.bartleby.com/16/ Plus, the CP seems to be mainly focused on sexual morality/ethics, which I don't think is true of AN? Edited March 3, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 Have bought these two books. Have read the intro to one of them. Amazing. Going to speed read through these now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Fantastic.  Do share your findings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 OK here goes...  I had thought that these stories were originally from Arabia and such but interestingly for me, the books say that they originally came from India way. Also the structure of the book was a first in itself. Using a framework to bind together many different folk tales from around the world into one tale. The framework story is one of adultery by a King's wife by which he responds to executing all future wives the next day so as not to suffer the humiliation of being cheated on. The one wife who tells the stories over a period of years is the one who planbs to stop his madness by offering herself to be a potential victim. She tells these stories to keep the King's interest piqued and over the time the stories are completed she has given birth to 3 of his children. When she completes the stories she then supplicates before the King that it is not wise or befitting of a King to execute the mother of young children especially as one is still suckling (which i think is against their religion-i'm not sure though) and the King relents. He rescinds his order that his wife must be executed.  One of the things I did notice about these stories were that the good guys were always Muslims, the bad guys were jinns, jews or Christians. That's not in every story though. The stories cover all sorts of human frailties like adultery, dishonesty, greed and power etc. Having said that I personally found the stories quite boring. But that is because I read them as complete stories. There were cliffhangers in the stories and you could see why the King would want to know what happened next. The stories in themselves are of a recurring theme (like the Charitars) some of the stories I have read as a youngster but never knew they came from 1001 stories ie Sinbad the sailor, the genie and the lamp, Alaadin.  Similarities I found between 1001 nights and Sri CharitroPakhyan Granth :  1. using the qualities of the moon to describe the beauty of women 2. the characters involved and the setting : in a King'a court, involving a King and Queen, with a wise Minister who taught his daughter how to nullify the King's order. 3. there were names of existing cities and places such as Baghdad, China, India, and historical Caliphs names were used to give it an air of reality. 4. There is a framework story that allows for the inclusion of many different stories and events.  Other things I learnt about 1001 nights is that it influenced a lot of writers in the West, and these writers (one is named as Chaucer) based some of his writings on 1001 nights. I don't know about literature in the west, but that seems pretty impressive to me.   0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted April 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 Wonderful thanks for sharing. Do you think CP is modelled somehow on 1001 nights? Is it a book that neeeds to be included somehow in the overall analysis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 I think definitely that the framework stories overlap, but am not sure how much we can include it in the overall analysis as we have realy only covered 30 charitars. Thats less than 10%. Let's try and push to 40 charitars by the end of this month and that 10% research may give us some ideas and info. Coming at from the 1001 nights angle, I haven't seen too much in the charitars that make it seem overly reliant on this text. Â @paapiman Bro, you getting lazy with these charitars. You haven't posted any in many moons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 Wanted to add as well that there is a life at stake and the art of story-telling is employed as a tool to save that life, in both texts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted April 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 Yes exactly. I dont think it’s a coincidence. And the fact that many stories relate to kings and rulers of the time taking the mick of them. Thereby destroying their sanctity in the eyes of people.  They’re as corrupt and weak as everyone else. And the fact that the stories are oral stories from all over being written down. The CP is mostly Indian in nature but in the hikayats you have stories of Chinese emperors and European kingdoms etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 On 4/1/2018 at 2:00 PM, chatanga1 said: @paapiman Bro, you getting lazy with these charitars. You haven't posted any in many moons. Gurparsaad, will try to contribute this month. Â Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 On 02/04/2018 at 11:19 PM, paapiman said: Gurparsaad, will try to contribute this month. This month? Amardeep, give him 2 days and then send someone round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Brothers, firstly an apology to all for contributing here sporadically. I have been in Panjab for all of August and had a lot of work to do when I got back. Gurprasad, I acheived my minds life-long desires by visiting the houses of my Guru, for which I yearned to see for years. Now I am at peace concerning those. Whilst i was in Panjab, I had some time to do some reading and I purchased another copy of 1001 nights. In this edition I found so many similarities in the stories of 1001 nights that also featured in Sri Charitropakhyan Granth. I am going to share some of those soon. The first one I want to share is the story of when the woman hid a man in a trunk in her home and told her husband that there was a man hidden in there. Then as the man went to check, the woman raised her arms to her head and questioned her husbands trust of her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 hours ago, chatanga1 said: Brothers, firstly an apology to all for contributing here sporadically. I have been in Panjab for all of August and had a lot of work to do when I got back. Gurprasad, I acheived my minds life-long desires by visiting the houses of my Guru, for which I yearned to see for years. Now I am at peace concerning those. Bhaji, it's great that you got a chance to visit the holiest land on the planet. Which other books did you buy? Please do keep sharing stores from Arabian nights.  Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tva prasad Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 @paapimanYo, if anyone else wanna read'em there's pdf's available. http://www.burtoniana.org/books/1885-Arabian Nights/ If you don't want to download all these PDF's, you're in luck because there is an online version available: http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/index.htm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tva prasad Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 @chatanga1 Have you read the Allahdin story yet? It is sort of similar to that story in CP where the yogi kidnaps the girl and a prince saves her (I forgot the name of this tale). In Allahdin a magician kidnaps a girl (Jasmine but I think had a different name) in a disappearing castle and I think Allahdin saves her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 On 10/3/2018 at 9:50 AM, tva prasad said: @paapimanYo, if anyone else wanna read'em there's pdf's available. http://www.burtoniana.org/books/1885-Arabian Nights/ If you don't want to download all these PDF's, you're in luck because there is an online version available: http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/index.htm  Great share.  On 10/3/2018 at 10:14 AM, tva prasad said: @chatanga1 Have you read the Allahdin story yet? It is sort of similar to that story in CP where the yogi kidnaps the girl and a prince saves her (I forgot the name of this tale). In Allahdin a magician kidnaps a girl (Jasmine but I think had a different name) in a disappearing castle and I think Allahdin saves her.  Will take another look. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tva prasad Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 Let's start with the plot of the 1001 Arabian Nights and Chartiropakhyan. 1001 Arabian Nights plot: A Sultan, Shahrayar one day find out that his wife is cheating on him with a black cook. He beheads both the cook and the wife. Later, he goes to visit his brother, Shah Zaman, who is also a king. He witnesses his brother's wife cheating on his brother with a black slave. He then witnesses an unfaithful wife of a Jinn. Shah Shahrayar later went back to his kingdom, resolving to marry a woman and behead her in the morning just to repeat this cycle again. One day a smart woman, daughter of his Wazir was married to him. She told him stories, to keep her life. These stories became the 1001 Arabian Nights. Source: http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Vol_1/vol1.htm  Charitropakhyan plot: Quote King Chitra Singh of Chitravati married a damsel from Indra's kingdom, and had a son named Hanuvant Singh through her. When the king got old, she deserted him and fled from his kingdom. He ordered a search party to find her, but instead found another similar looking girl named Chitramati, who was the daughter of the ruler of Orissa. He married her after he won a fight with her father, the ruler of Orissa. Chitramati was about the age of the son of Chitra Singh, and she got heavily attracted to him. She tried to seduce him into sexual relationship, but he was not to go for incest. She in turn, arranged a high profile drama and accused Hanuvant Singh of raping her, which the King Chitra Singh believed and sentenced his son to death. The wise adviser of the King knew that his second wife was not of a pious character and was falsely blaming Hanuvant Singh. In order to prevent this injustice to be inflicted onto Hanuvant Singh, the adviser shared various accounts of stories depicting different situations intended to make the King realize his folly and improve his decision making skill Source: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Charitropakhyan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tva prasad Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 Both of the plots seem to have a king who has an unfaithful wife. Due to the wife's unfaithfulness other characters in the narrative (Hanuwant SIngh in CP and the king's brides in Arabian Nights) are made to bear harsh punishments even though they may be innocent. In both pieces of literature the king has a wise person who helps him to make better decisions through the telling of many tales that teach lessons.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 6 hours ago, tva prasad said: One day a smart woman, daughter of his Wazir was married to him. She told him stories, to keep her life. These stories became the 1001 Arabian Nights. Does she eventually survive the beheading? Thanks  Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tva prasad Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, paapiman said: Does she eventually survive the beheading? Thanks  Bhul chuk maaf Yes, she told Shahrayar half of the story each night. This made the Shah curious of the rest of the story so he did not behead her as he wanted to hear the rest. She repeated this for 1001 stories. When she had told 1001 tales she ran out of tales to tell, however by this time the Shah had fallen in love with her and spared her life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 1 hour ago, tva prasad said: Yes, she told Shahrayar half of the story each night. This made the Shah curious of the rest of the story so he did not behead her as he wanted to hear the rest. She repeated this for 1001 stories. When she had told 1001 tales she ran out of tales to tell, however by this time the Shah had fallen in love with her and spared her life. She didn’t tell 1001 stories but spread the stories out over 1001 nights. I think there are some 300 odd stories. At the end of the telling she had borne the King 3 children (1001 nights is almost 3 years) and then she asked the king whether there was any justice in killing the mother of young children so the King rescinded the sentence on her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted October 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 Is there anything to suggest that Arabian nights was read and studied in Mughal India ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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