Comparing Gurbani With Rumis Works

[Mr Sardar]

The name Mowlana Jalaluddin Rumi stands for Love and ecstatic flight into the infinite. Rumi is one of the great spiritual masters and poetical geniuses of mankind and was the founder of the Mawlawi Sufi order, a leading mystical brotherhood of Islam.

Rumi was born in Wakhsh (Tajikistan) under the administration of Balkh in 30 September 1207 to a family of learned theologians. Escaping the Mongol invasion and destruction, Rumi and his family traveled extensively in the Muslim lands, performed pilgrimage to Mecca and finally settled in Konya, Anatolia, then part of Seljuk Empire. When his father Bahaduddin Valad passed away, Rumi succeeded his father in 1231 as professor in religious sciences. Rumi 24 years old, was an already accomplished scholar in religious and positive sciences.

He was introduced into the mystical path by a wandering dervish, Shamsuddin of Tabriz. His love and his bereavement for the death of Shams found their expression in a surge of music, dance and lyric poems, `Divani Shamsi Tabrizi'. Rumi is the author of six volume didactic epic work, the `Mathnawi', called as the 'Koran in Persian' by Jami, and discourses, `Fihi ma Fihi', written to introduce his disciples into metaphysics.

If there is any general idea underlying Rumi's poetry, it is the absolute love of God. His influence on thought, literature and all forms of aesthetic expression in the world of Islam cannot be overrated.

Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi died on December 17, 1273. Men of five faiths followed his bier. That night was named Sebul Arus (Night of Union). Ever since, the Mawlawi dervishes have kept that date as a festival.

http://www.khamush.com/works.htm

There are aspects of his poetry which look similar to bani like he has a poem I read which looked like shabad hazare the thing about rumi is he claimed divine revelation according to muslims most do not believe it to be but still take it as something worthwhile the poems develop upon previous taswuuf sufi persian (aryan- indian theological aspects) which have started from islam and moved forward there are so many poems which look like gurbani. Gurbani also has the theme of being divine revelation and the messages are somewhat the same rumi influences later sufis such as sheikh farid and many who shaped punjab and it's literature and culture.

http://www.khamush.com/works.htm

Jelaluddin Rumi was born in the region today known as Afghanistan in 1207. His family fled the Mogul invasion to Konya, Turkey where he spent most of his life.

Rumi following in his fathers ancestoral line became a scholar until his meeting with the wandering dervish, Shams of Tabriz. Of this meeting Rumi said, "What I had thought of before as God, I met today in a person."

After Shams, Rumi's other strong influences were Saladin Zarkub, the goldsmith, and later his scribe, Husam.

His poetry filled with a longing to be with the Friend, Him, or You. Are these mysterious pronouns the names of God, Shams, or who? This is for you, the reader to ponder.

Rumi founded the Mevlevi Order of dervishes, better known as the Whirling Dervishes of Sufism. Through a turning movement, body posturing, mental focus, and sound, the dervish achieves ecstasy through union with God.

Once a secret society, today the Mevlevi tour the world allowing audiences to witness the ceremony of their sacred dances and music.

It is also interesting to note that similar to other major religions, Islam frowns upon dancing and using words such as "gamble," "drunk," and "wine" which you find throughout Rumi's and other great Islamic and Sufi poets writings. Obviously they mean "drunk" on God's grace, but that's not to say they wouldn't be outcast by religious fundamentalists today.

The idea of drink drunk are understood in gurbani as ras, amrit and so forth.

http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/Rumipoetry1.html

http://www.rumionfire.com/gallery/index.htm

Edited March 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[amardeep]

His poems are wonderful

[Mr Sardar]

Rumis descendent is alive today his name is shaykh abdul kerim haqqani

[amardeep]

He looks a bit like a sikh in the second picture lol

[Mr Sardar]

[Mr Sardar]

Yes he looks Sikh but there beliefs are very similar to our own the main difference being they are muhammadens we are not.

Infact Mian mir practiced Rumis theology.

Edited March 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

Sufis in the past had to defend there beliefs against orthodox muslims just like even sikhs had to and we learnt shastarvidya from them aswell

Edited March 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

One thing we know is gurmat and gurmantar are a faster route of getting mukhti but majority do not practice this fully me including.

Edited March 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[amardeep]

"and we learnt shastarvidya from them aswell"

Where did you get this from?

[Mr Sardar]

word of it is likely to be wrong but aspects of shastarvidya maybe

from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBj49sKrGaM&feature=related

[SURYADEV]

a very regal fella.

[dalsingh101]

Does Rumi's work claim to offer salvation on reading and adhering to it?

[Mr Sardar]

It claims to be divine revelation however from what we understand from the nature of immams sheikhs and moulvis they ended up teaching the quran so they read quran but take philisophy and teaching the majority of them are ignorant about alot of the details of the entire religion all the understand is rumi took islam and was a proper scholar so he wrote a work which teaches islam so many muslims say rumi is a good muslim and put people back into shariah or say they are just trojan horses to convert other people and then you end up having nut cases after that however they follow muhammaden law. If rumis works did have such a quality like gurbani they probably would have forgotten it but his works are written in persian and are sung on wajjas performed like kirtan have qwali done and provide ras aswell the deeper belief I would not know- it understood to be a message of unity. Rumi does teach what we know as salvation as wajjad al whuud or the perfect man

http://bahai-library.com/ioannesyan_perfect_man

http://irfancolloquia.org/pdf/lights2_ioannesyan.pdf

Edited March 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/s/sufism.html

http://www.israinternational.com/the-perfect-man.html

http://www.ibnarabisociety.org/articles/weismann.html

http://truthaboutsufism.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/sufism-revealed-creed-the-concept-of-the-perfect-man-insanul-kamil-and-haqiqah-muhammadiyah/

http://www.chishti.ru/d_m_perfectman.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/az/rescon/SUFIMYSTIC.HTML

Edited March 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

By adhering to his works it does claim to offer a salvation similar to ours I am not sure about reading it, sheikh farids works read offer salvation as through gurbani.

Edited April 1, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[dalsingh101]

It claims to be divine revelation however from what we understand from the nature of immams sheikhs and moulvis they ended up teaching the quran so they read quran but take philisophy and teaching the majority of them are ignorant about alot of the details of the entire religion all the understand is rumi took islam and was a proper scholar so he wrote a work which teaches islam so many muslims say rumi is a good muslim and put people back into shariah or say they are just trojan horses to convert other people and then you end up having nut cases after that however they follow muhammaden law.

Are you trying to break some record for creating the world's longest sentence ever?

The above seems garbled and I'm struggling to make sense of it. You seem to sprawled out a lot of different ideas without punctuation?

Back to the original question:

How exactly does Rumi claim his work has divine providence? Do you have some quotes?

I'm just wondering if trying to compare gurbani to his work is comparing two things with entirely different purposes?

[Mr Sardar]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1174502/introduction_to_rumi/

Thing is Guru Nanak took education in Islam as the rulers of that time were persian they must have taught these doctrines aswell at that time, rumi has seem to have taken older mythologies such as buddhism, vedanta, shaman, christianity, zorostrainism and taken a different view on spirtuality which influenced the kings of India. These doctines of Shams Tabrizi and Rumi do have by orthodox muslims are not believed to be divine but just something to be used with islam better understanding the quran but he has gone deviant more towards aryan faith which is what we have presented in sikhi by sheikh farid and gurbani.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=J0ExiY-2pHEC&pg=PR16&lpg=PR16&dq=rumi+divine+revelation&source=bl&ots=zGe74HlTSB&sig=LmKnaUIdKn43U6RmmVqxgsiP1U4&hl=en&ei=DqCTTfCKBtK5hAf58aXtCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=rumi%20divine%20revelation&f=false

one of his poems

[dalsingh101]

but he has gone deviant more towards aryan faith which is what we have presented in sikhi by sheikh farid and gurbani.

Groan, more 'Aryan' theory....

[laalsingh]

what is aryan faith? plz be short and concise.

[Mr Sardar]

The mythological people who brought vedas into India whose religion was around iran, afghanistan, pakistan, india so forth the religion became lost as myth has it and people have tried to bring it back infact there is a sakhi about Guru Nanak being told by a pandit just to preach vedas and not his new religion guru nanak said that vedas had been forgotten and old something like that I can not remember entire sakhi. This religion took manifestations into buddhism, zorostraism, jainism soforth anicent religions so many have tried to reform and bring back.

Here is abit about rumi being a deviant and satanic according to islam http://aboutmuslims.com/?p=96

Rumis teachings are from the same sources of vedic ideology and his teachings were used to convert many to islam however people such as jhangir aurangzeb and so forth tried to bring people into muhammadenism which has created terrorism now and many other issues. Our beliefs are very similar to rumis beliefs. Rumis theology has gone to turkey and most muslim nations however alot have not paid attention in actually reflecting on what it says rather they just listen to muslims priest who for which some believe in rumi others think he just a good muslim who taught muhammads religion however he went off muhammads religion akbar believed in him and guru arjan dev ji other muslims after akbar did not - babbar was half muhammaden and half rumi oriented.

Edited April 1, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

From Rumis works

"“Islam and other faiths

have all come around so recently

yet Love has no beginning or end.

You can’t call the unbeliever an infidel

if he’s been the latest victim of love“

For Sikhs Wahdatul Wujud is mukhti enlightenment:

"In the poem “I am the One” Rumi shows his belief in Wahdatul Wujud

“I became the One

whose name everybody takes an oath to.

I became Jesus to the moon.

I rose up and passed through the sky

I am the drunk Moses.

God himself lives inside this patched cloak.

I am crazy, insane, drunk out of mind

I don’t listen to advice and deserve to be locked up”

he said at the end of this poem:

“When Muhammad sees me drunk, my face pale,

he kisses my eyes, then I prostrate before him.

I am today’s Muhammad,

but not the Muhammad of the past

I am the phoenix of the time”

P 154 in the last two sentences of the poem “You can’t get away” Rumi calls people to become heretics, saying :

“If you don’t act like a heretic

you can’t reach the truth in Islam“

Comment: this is a pure lie on the pure religion of Islam, Never did any Prophet or their Companions acted like heretics, rather this is the satanic saying of these misguided Sufis and their religion of heresy.

May Allah send Salah and Salam on the Prophet (saw), his household, Companions and those who follow them.

Compiled by Ali Hassan Khan. "

Thing is sufism was used alot for concubines in brothel houses they would do qwali with seductive dancing followed by prostitution

houses throughout india by muslims where girls were kidnapped even sikh women and hindus during moghul reign and even sold through sex trades taking place to arabia and further on, hence today we see alot of arabs who have descent from indian blood aswell.

Edited April 1, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi

[Mr Sardar]

Guru Nanak bani for muslims is in the similar place as it is for Rumis Masnavi and other taswuuf books. Rumi was persian and Guru Nanak was punjabi both states are not far from each other and the ancient ideologies are some what the same buddhism, zorostrainism and hinduism. Both had divine revelations and somewhat teach reincarnation is it possible to say Guru Nanak was rumi reincarnated? Rumi appears 1207-1273 and Guru Nanak comes at 1469 Rumi is known as one of the greatest Sufis around. Rumi is born in Balkh now in afghanistan and lived in and was buried at turkey konya.

Edited April 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mithar]

Guru Nanak bani for muslims is in the similar place as it is for Rumis Masnavi and other taswuuf books. Rumi was persian and Guru Nanak was punjabi both states are not far from each other and the ancient ideologies are some what the same buddhism, zorostrainism and hinduism. Both had divine revelations and somewhat teach reincarnation is it possible to say Guru Nanak was rumi reincarnated?

Guru Nanak Dev Jee was Jagatguru. Rumi was a great Saint, but how does that make him a reincarnation of Guru Nanak Dev Jee? As the saying goes "all great men think alike" but that does not mean that just because they think alike they must be reincarnates of each other. If Guru Nanak Dev Jee was his reincarnate then surely it would have been mentioned in our canonical scriptures or even our historical granths on the lives of the Gurus.

Since he was a great Saint, maybe he was reincarnated as one of the Bhagats or even as a Gursikh because I believe that after doing great Karma or Bhagti that we get a chance to be born to become Sikhs. The fact that we have been blessed with Sikhi while in human form is something extraordinary since Sikhs make up not even 1% of the human population. So Sikhi itself is a very rare thing to happen to a human. So those who are Sikhs need and should to feel blessed to be one of the few humans who are Sikhs. We need to make sure we take full advantage of our Janam in human form, and blessed with Gursikhi we should do enough Bhagti in this lifetime that we do not even need to be born again.

BHAYEE PRAAPAT MANUKH DEHURIA

GOBIND MILAN KI EH TERI BARIA

Amritvela needs to be kept by all Sikhs and atleast 1 hour of Nam Simran along with a minimum of our Nitnemi Banis should be done everyday. Life is unpredictable, you never know when death can happen. Live everyday like it is the last day. So every day should be spent on as much Naam Simran and Bani recitation as you can do. Don't let your human form (MANUKH DEHURIA) go to waste.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Mithar

[Mr Sardar]

Also something in common is how sufism from rumi uses whirling such techniques which reflect an ancient mystical dance preseved of the atom of a circular motion. Rumi took such whirling from a haddith of the prophet muhammad and something of the time of those ancient traditions perhaps from buddhism. Both practices are prayers which produce religious ecstasy. More about sufi atomic whirling

we have circular akali moitions in gatka and shastarvidya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C54ie5mCLU

also near end of this 6.30

Edited April 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala