Comparing Gurbani With Rumis Works

[Mithar]

Also something in common is how sufism from rumi uses whirling such techniques which reflect an ancient mystical dance preseved of the atom of a circular motion. Rumi took such whirling from a haddith of the prophet muhammad and something of the time of those ancient traditions perhaps from buddhism. Both practices are prayers which produce religious ecstasy. More about sufi atomic whirling

we have circular akali moitions in gatka and shastarvidya

How is that something in common? These are two completely different things. It's like saying, the followers of Rumi have a nose, and we also have a nose, look how much in common we have.

Bhai, you should be thankful that you have this Manukha Janam after many lifetimes. What is more, we have been blessed with Sikhi which is a rare occurrence amongst humans since not even 1% of humans are blessed with Sikhi. Study about Gurmat, listen to Katha, read Gurbani, do Simran to make this Manukha Janam Safal instead of reading about Rumis or Naazims. That will not get you anywhere, but doing simran will, listening to Katha will, reading Gurbani will.

[dalsingh101]

I think that what brother sarbat is doing is reaching out to other beliefs/faiths because he may feel a degree of isolation (for some reason) in Sikhi.

You see this regularly being done (by apnay), when some people try to find links between faiths on the most tenuous of basis in a desire to bring about a feeling of oneness.

Although the sentiment might be noble it can also lead to serious misconceptions if not tempered.

What is happening here is a very fascinating phenomena though. It probably models the first few steps that were taken centuries ago when someone similarly linked Baba Nanak to Raja Janak.

Edited April 5, 2011 by dalsingh101

[Mr Sardar]

Thing is I think we have lost alot of our documentations ithaisic and dharmic literature such as libraries we must have had during baba deep singh and baba banda singh bahadur time as well as guru gobind singh ji's time there must have been more things then what we have now- so one is always pondering theories and seeing validity of time. Given time more transcripts will probably become available online such as all guru sahibs janamsakhis and sarbloh granth we only have portions at the moment but the entirety of the sikh faith without any debatable nature about a sakhi or maryada. I would say the raja janak theory inspired me to ponder on this one even in images they look alike and followers of both paths have similarities and look alike. Perhaps even finding a prophecy from Rumi about Guru Nanak's comming and khalsa etc.

Edited April 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[dalsingh101]

Thing is I think we have lost alot of our documentations ithaisic and dharmic literature such as libraries we must have had during baba deep singh and baba banda singh bahadur time as well as guru gobind singh ji's time there must have been more things then what we have now- so one is always pondering theories and seeing validity of time. Given time more transcripts will probably become available online such as all guru sahibs janamsakhis and sarbloh granth we only have portions at the moment but the entirety of the sikh faith without any debatable nature about a sakhi or maryada. I would say the raja janak theory inspired me to ponder on this one even in images they look alike and followers of both paths have similarities and look alike. Perhaps even finding a prophecy from Rumi about Guru Nanak's comming and khalsa etc.

I believe that people can 'overstretch' with the thinking and see links where none exist. I don't think Banda Singh's period was marked by literature production, rather it was a period of hardcore war. Baba Deep Singh is told to have produced copies of granths and taught reading (and was most likely involved in arth). I heard there was also an Arabic script version of the granth produced under him. However I'm not sure if any steek/commentaries were produced by them though? Maybe the explanation was was done orally? Seeing as DDT claim to still have Baba Deep Singh's personal gutka in their possession, I think any written commentary from them was also likely to have survived - if it existed. Although we can't fully discount the possibility that something did exist, I think lack of any surviving material or even mention of such material (to my knowledge), suggests that written commentaries weren't produced.

I think it is dangerous to produce theories that link faiths in the way you have done, because the Raja Janak thing shows us how easily and quickly they can become accepted, even if they are not based on any sound source.

I mean comparing images created many centuries later is a stark example of tenuous linkage.

Before we do this, we owe it to ourselves to try and get an understanding of our own faith to some depth first in my opinion. And if we do subsequently engage in comparative exercises with other beliefs/faiths we should do so in a grounded manner, lest the whole exercise simply becomes 'a flight of fancy'.

Edited April 6, 2011 by dalsingh101

[Mithar]

I agree with Dal Singh. Making unsubstantiated claims when trying to link two different religions is really going to cause more damage then good. A man like Bahadur who has a Phd in religious study and is very knowledgeable on comparative religions tried his best in trying to show a link between Gurmat and Islam, even to the point where he started to falsify his evidence just to show a link. But knowledgeable Singhs here completely dissolved his false theories.

Sikhi is the teesr Panth. It is distinct from Islam and Hinduism. Either you beleive in the house of Guru Nanak or you beleive in the house of Mohammad. You cannot put your feet in two different boats and stay afloat. Eventually you will end up falling. A study of other religions should only be undertaken once you have a deep and profound understanding of your own Deen Dharm which is Gurmat.

I would suggest sarbat to download as much katha from Gurmatveechar site into his ipod or mp3 player and spend atleast an hour a day just listening to the deep arths of Gurbani done by our scholars. May I suggest you please listen to Japji Sahib Katha done by Giani Takhur Singh Jee, it is very similar to the katha done by Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee Bhindranwalay. For really deep spiritually stuff I would suggest you listen to the Katha of Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowalwalay.

[Mr Sardar]

What is bahadur story is he a muslim just trying to convert sikhs?

[chatanga1]

Thing is I think we have lost alot of our documentations ithaisic and dharmic literature such as libraries we must have had during baba deep singh and baba banda singh bahadur time as well as guru gobind singh ji's time there must have been more things then what we have now-

Brother that time was one of war and little else. Even now our Qaum does lament this fact that very little literature came out about the Sikhs, spiritually or historically, from this time, and that the little that did either was lost or became corrupted.

[Mr Sardar]

We should perhaps take our time writting down as much as possible even about these times for future generations and spread our sikhi furtheron in hindustan to hindus.

[chatanga1]

We should perhaps take our time writting down as much as possible even about these times for future generations and spread our sikhi furtheron in hindustan to hindus.

Bruv, with the media opotions available today, this shold not be a problem at all. But even with all these resources, we have failed to create a "Ramayan" or "MahaBharat" of our own. Why is there so much demnand and appreciation of animations like "Sahibzader" and "Rise of the Khalsa"? That should go a good way to answering this issue.

[Mr Sardar]

You know rumi says in one of his works he was muhammad of the past so if we take literally maybe he was mohammad reincarnated and generally under reincarnation doctrines the virtues of that soul are preserved it is that the character of the past life will show so a famous prophet becomes a famous saint such bhagti has to follow through could mohammad be guru nanak? it is insane probably to say such a thing and paap. But prophet muhammad did alot of miracles he split the moon in half, his hair is still alive till today when human hair degenerates in 80years and if we believe in reincarnation he did alot of paap aswell from our perception however in that time those things were acceptable would such bhagati follow through? We do know prophet muhammad clearly had alot of knowledge of hinduism from the quran and haddiths he is teaching concepts which go back before his time from buddha, krishna, jesus, brahma, ram and further on even though he was illiterate.

[Mr Sardar]

Edited April 19, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

http://www.hf.uib.no/i/religion/popularikonografi/exhib02.html

the Prophet holds the Quran in his left hand, while with his right hand index finger, he points upwards. The one finger symbolises or reminds the viewer of the basic Islamic tenet of the one God.

Edited April 19, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

The idea of one finger starts from Avesta who was a brahmin for monotheism and is shown by Guru Nanak below

Avesta Zorostrain prophet

"Zoroastrianism is the oldest of the revealed world-religions, and it has probably had more influence on mankind, directly and indirectly, than any other single faith." - Mary Boyce, Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices (London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1979, p. 1)

"Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam; yet it is in Zoroastrianism itself that they have their fullest logical coherence....” - Mary Boyce, Op. Cit. p. 29.

Edited April 19, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[dalsingh101]

Sarbat, you've lost the plot.

Out of interest. Do you, or have you ever thought about converting?

[Mithar]

You know rumi says in one of his works he was muhammad of the past so if we take literally maybe he was mohammad reincarnated and generally under reincarnation doctrines the virtues of that soul are preserved it is that the character of the past life will show so a famous prophet becomes a famous saint such bhagti has to follow through could mohammad be guru nanak? it is insane probably to say such a thing and paap. But prophet muhammad did alot of miracles he split the moon in half, his hair is still alive till today when human hair degenerates in 80years and if we believe in reincarnation he did alot of paap aswell from our perception however in that time those things were acceptable would such bhagati follow through? We do know prophet muhammad clearly had alot of knowledge of hinduism from the quran and haddiths he is teaching concepts which go back before his time from buddha, krishna, jesus, brahma, ram and further on even though he was illiterate.

Where does Rumi say he was a reincarnate of Prophet Mohammad. I would like to see that. And no, Guru Nanak Dev Jee is not Mohammad. Please refrain from insulting Guru Jee by coming up with such imaginative fantasies. How can you think Guru Jee can be a pedophile, rapist, slave owner, mass murderer, forcible converter, thief and torturer in his previous life?

The things which were common in Prohpet Mohammad's time period were also common during the times of the Sikh Guru period, yet the Gurus never became pedophiles, rapists, slave owners, mass murderers, thiefs or torturers.

Mohammad was the only prophet who did not perform miracles in the Semitic tradition. The story of Mohammad splitting the moon is fake. It is only mentioned in a Hadith. Surely if prophet Mohammad had done such a great miracle such as splitting the moon then it would have been recorded by astronomers world wide at that time period. For example, Chinese astronomers have accurately recorded astronomical happenings visible to the human eye for thousands of years which is even confirmed by NASA.

As for the existence of prophet Mohammad's hair, how is that a miracle? we have human hair surviving from ancient Egypt. You are reading too much into Islamic propaganda.

And how is pointing a finger a cause for similarities between religions? That's the most superficial similarity I've heard.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Mithar

[Mithar]

Avesta Zorostrain prophet

From this picture it looks like Zoroastor is wearing a traditional Punjabi dress of chaadhar(loongi) and kurta which today is mainly worn by bhangra dancers. Using your logic of forming similarities based on pictures can be deduce that Zoroastar was a Bhangra dancer?

On a serious note, the biggest tragedy to have happened to Persia was it losing it's original religion of Zoroastrianism and becoming an Islamic nation, a legacy of Arab imperialism. Hopefully one day, Iranians will realize this and go back to the faith of their ancestors.

[dalsingh101]

Lol@

From this picture it looks like Zoroastor is wearing a traditional Punjabi dress of chaadhar(loongi) and kurta which today is mainly worn by bhangra dancers. Using your logic of forming similarities based on pictures can be deduce that Zoroastar was a Bhangra dancer?

Sarbat, sort your head out mate. Don't be a plum.

[amardeep]

Did you order the book I recommended you ?

[dalsingh101]

Did you order the book I recommended you ?

Who me?

[amardeep]

No no sarbatdapala.. This whole "islam derives from hinduism" is hilarious... Read the book yaar and you will get a better understanding of the social environment that Islam grew up in

[Silence]

To understand the significance of Islam in sikhi, just consider the amount of times any reference appears in bani, ill give u a hint, very little. In the praise of Guru Maharaj many times there are references to the fact that it was Guru Sahib himself, i.e. guru sahibs power, working through different avtars etc in various great historical moments such as decieving the king baal in the form of a dwarf. Correct me if im wrong but I don't personally remember a single instance where the same sort of praise is given using an islamic figure. I'd be interested to see if there is but I don't really think so. therefore the idea that Guru Nanak could be mohammed in a new life, aside from being simply blasphemous is not in the least bit backed up by bani.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Silence

[dalsingh101]

therefore the idea that Guru Nanak could be mohammed in a new life,

What moron is coming out with this?

[chatanga1]

http://www.hf.uib.no/i/religion/popularikonografi/exhib02.html

the Prophet holds the Quran in his left hand, while with his right hand index finger, he points upwards. The one finger symbolises or reminds the viewer of the basic Islamic tenet of the one God.

The left hand is islam is the kuffar hand, within it dwells the devil, and with left hand only is the bottom to be cleaned after having a good shit. only the left hand is to be offered to shake the hand of a kuffar. why is he holding the qur'an in his left hand?

[Mr Sardar]

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/35194-dumbest-reasons-for-converting-to-islam.html

Thing is the Islamic Research Foundation led by Zakir Naik is having a global effect like aurangzeb had and the conversion thing has started again. http://www.faithfreedom.org/

The times which we had are going to be even worse very soon be prepared for much worse then what happened to our Gurus and sikhs.

Edited April 22, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwA3jErg9Bc&feature=related