Claim Of Guru Nanak?

[Mr Sardar]

"As far as I know Baba Guru Nanak was great MUSLIM sufi who even went to perform Haj.Imagine the degree of his devotion he traveled across continent for this purpose.He even went to Banaras to find commonality in religions.He was born in hindu household.And believed in One God.Whom he affectionately called "Wahe Guru".He NEVER declared a separate religin in his life time.Formal Sikhism was formed hundreds of year after him.Sikhs developed separate identity for unity against onslaught of Mughals.Even foundation stone of their holiest of shrine "Golden Temple" was laid by greatest Muslim sufi saint Of his time Hazrat Mian Meer.You have to understand Sufis do not divisive but inclusive.They have romantic version of concept of God and religion.Which at times disagrees with conventional"wisdom"." http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/39578-sikh-praising-islam.html

 

 

http://www.sikhism101.com/node/231

 

Most of us grew up believing in bhai bhala and now he has been taken out of the picture that the infamous bhai sobha singh painted of guru sahib in which guru sahib holds a flower in his hand. This practice of holding flowers is something even sufi masters did.

 

http://www.justsikh.com/files/images/Guru%20Nanak-800X600.preview.jpg

 

 

Bhai bhala janamsakhis are used in gurdwaras today all around but even today people have now declared them unauthentic and have stated that bhai sahib mani singh wrote janamsakhis which are authentic. Bhai Bhala janamsakhi states the rejection of prophet muhammad when guru sahib meets sheikh ibrahim as the need of an intercessor for wajjat-al-whuud or what hindus called moksha which in punjabi is mukhti. Even the development of sikhi rejecting drinking of alcohol was discovered by macaufille in islam it is haram however sikhs used to drink like the moghuls. There are many parallels in which if we start reading the haddiths we even find lost rehat which we are supposed to have today such as praising God before we eat or go toilet etc. which have been written in by baba nand singh nanaksar rehat. What sikhism is today is thanks to the sewa of maharaja ranjit singh but when we study his life we learn even he was ignorant of sikhi rehat otherwise just a heretic in himself, however his empire which somewhat a fusion between the court of Guru Gobind Singh and Akbar both which we can see were inspired by persia's cyrus the great for being immensely religious tolerant in a time of intolerance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder

 

Maharaja ranjit singh in his possesion had janamsakhis which painted guru nanak more as a hindu, ranjit singh himself used to do devi pooja. Ranjit singh had 7 wifes who commited sati. Ranjit singh also believed guru nanak respected islam so in that sense he even paid for a caligraphy work of the quran which he showed respect to. However in his time the muslim moulla were insane who incited hatred as there are many now and in guru sahibs time so he had restrictions placed on them i.e. banning azan in punjab.

 

The moghuls after studying sikhism found one thing disrespectful about islam which was:

 

‘Mitti Musalman ki peire paee Kumiar; Ghar bhandei itan kia, jaldi karei pukar.’(Asa Mohalla 1, P-466)

‘The ashes of the Mohammadan fall into the potter’s clod; Vessels and bricks are fashioned from them; they cry out as they burn. (Translation of the above)

 

However today muslims studying the haddiths say going to dargahs is wrong and no different to idol worship and is shirk. We find in a janamsakhi guru nanak says his followers will end up worshipping the granth. In islam muslims are not allowed to associate any partner with allah as this is shirk the biggest sin a muslim can ever do, and if you notice most muslims educated in islam who go to a gurdwara will not prostrate infront of guru granth sahib including pirs themself they may touch the ground infront of it as a sign of respect. Which is also in our rehat marayada and most rehat we have are newly created by various movements, as for purthan rehat many of them have controversial things in them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)

 

However that being said in terms of bowing infront of a murshid there are elements in sufism which allow the kissing of hand or feet in islam and many other aspects of bowing which do exist. Guru Nanak is declared as a practioner of tawhid. We find Nihangs even making muslims eating pork in the books of muslim historians it says Guru Nanak forbid his followers from eating pork his langar tradition was veggeterian to make in inclusive of even hindus. When studying such a mater we can not be closed minded we have to analyse such a mater from all angles even from muslim historians, french aswell as european historians and hindu historians. India has had a way of destroying religions that challenged Brahmanism such as buddhism. So we really have to investigate in Mohammedan countries such as syria. Guru Sahib taught us to be free thinkers as the sufis taught muslims to be aswell.

 

 

(In the Court of Guru Nanak)

The Ruler and the Pauper were equal.

 

He brought into vogue the practice of bowing at each other’s feet.

 

What a wonderful feat the Beloved wrought!

 

Lo, the head bows at the feet.

 

xxxxxxx

 

Do not give up the practice of bowing at others’ feet.

 

For in the Kaliyug this is the path.

 

xxxxxxx

 

A Sikh should adopt the practice of bowing at another’s feet;

 

He should listen to the advice of the (other) Gursikh, and

 

ponder over what he says.

 

Bhai gurdas ji vaaran http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bole_So_Nihal

 

There are many sikhs who forbid touching of feet as they say this is sin and a sikh should only bow infront of guru maharaj.

 

The more we go in from our history the more we are learning that we are much further away from hinduism then we are to islam

 

http://www.searchsikhism.com/hinduism.html

 

 

Guru Nanak fordid anyone from making any photo painting of him or doing any play or movie about him which all the other Gurus said, this was common for hindus to do but forbidden in islam by prophet muhammad. During masand period there were statues of devi/devta all of harmander sahib and in baba atal we find painting of devta devi which evidence points to being placed perhaps during misl period. As for the orthodox of amritsanchar this was done by akali nihangs who if we compare to rehat they do bhaang all the time intresting thing is the vedas talk about bhang where in islam the prophet muhammad said anything that causes harm to you is haram- so drugs/alcohol were haram. Even though sufis did bhang aswell but we really have to cross compare sikhi with the greatest sufi in islam which is rumi. All sufis also teach there followers not to make painting of them.

 

We might see Guru nanak similar to sai baba or bhagat kabir having pushed themselves away from islam but the thing is Guru Nanak spent alot of time with muslims, singing shabads in persian and arabic which most sikhs have not studied into and when we mention it alot of sikhs assume that it means we are superior to muslims because muslims bowed infront of our guru and if they did so it was perhaps because they assumed him to be one of them. We can actually see that according to rehat no gurdwara or sikh should even have a painting of guru sahibs. Additonally the moghuls even having relations with guru sahibs never constructed any huge monument towards them so it means they probably considered them to be low sufis perhaps it may reflect the heretic nature of going out of the scope of Muhammadanism. All we see is akbar aloted the land of amritsar to guru sahib they did respect them perhaps in an attempt to make dawah to them to become muslim.

[amardeep]

Everyone are so busy claiming Guru Nanak instead of listening to his message.

[SURYADEV]

the guru is sannjha.

The whole world can claim Him as their own. And they are welcome to Him.

The gurus vadiayee does not lessen otherwise.

[laalsingh]

I think He was a christian.

[Mr Sardar]

They claimed him to be a buddhist aswell some kids these days think he invented atheism and or agnotism while some give him evil attributes. Dhan gurusahib

Edited April 24, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

But Muslims believe the prophet muhammad is the final prophet the seal of the prophets other then that the only prophecies that they have is of imam mahdi and if Guru Nanak is imam mahdi how do we prove that? Isn't it our duty to tell muslims this and to preach this so they accept sikhism. http://www.irshad.org/islam/prophecy/mahdi.htm

http://www.adishakti.org/prophecies/18_imam_mahdi_has_surfaced.htm

http://www.iawwai.com/MuslimProphecies.html

http://bdsteel.tripod.com/More/Prophecy.htm

http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/imam.html

 

The prophecy will need some looking into depth rather then skimming so translations aswell.

 

Other then his prophecy of mahdi there is the prophecy of the dajjal anti-christ, satan. And many muslims believed Guru Gobind Singh and his sikhs to be demonic hence why they went after sikhs and called all his miracles satanic. They had immense hatred towards the devil.

 

So to muslims Guru Nanak is either a sufi muslim or a dajjal(deciever anti-christ) whose goal is to divert people away from God's path so they can go to hell so muslims believe either Guru Nanak was a true muslim in which they respect him or an anti-christ or from what we are seeing someone who was borderline sufi i.e. borderline muslim.

 

The secret door of mecca opening where is this prophecy written?

 

I would say we really need to know the sakhis of Guru Nanak in muslim countries such as syria, egypt and so on. In mecca Guru Nanak gave a shabad in which he gave the definition of fakiri and being a pir. All the people there attributed him to being a pir i.e. sufi. In the past the hindus and sikhs thought pir meant a great prophet like figure when it means someone following mohammad and for muslims they tended to also give respect towards us perhaps with the intention that we convert to islam. The sufis tend to present islam to people in such regions to the way they understand religion so by presenting an arabic tradition to hindus in the form of hinduism. The people then were not ready to understand these things and politics of those time did not allow for us to aswell. The hatred from hindus was clearly immense, had Guru Nanak accepted islam he could have been protected by muslim goverment of that time but the message of God would have not been spread at all. Guru Nanak has not really contradicted islam at all to any further extent then any other sufi. Sufis in the past have had similar nature however they still worked in the scope of the haddiths and quran they just explained it to people like even the idea of killing someone who leaves islam is not even supposed to be done but muslims do it. Or sheikh farid explaining music and dancing are not entirely haram just the nature of them is.

 

We find Guru Nanak to have presented doctrines present in haddiths in a hindu idea of understanding to the hindus but he went to muslim countries and taught islam to muslims in islamic doctrines he did not teach hinduism so much to them he has talked on the lines of rumi even though rumi took elements of hinduism and buddhism but those teaching were widespread aswell, they can be found in the gospel of jesus christ and the quran. We are also finding now that jesus came to India alot of proof is suggesting this today christians believe the quran has been written down from oral dictations of gospels of christ after 600 years after jesus they were taught in arabia by word of mouth. Even how namaz is done is the way jesus prayed and jesus also used to call God allah. Guru Nanak has not talked about the day of judgement and in todays newer translations of the bible this idea is thinning into different contexts now especially from gnostic gospels.

The sufis were heavily influenced by christianity in gurbani sheikh farid ji says:

 

farida bure da bala kar gusa man na hadaye.

 

dehi rog na lagayi pale sab kich paye. ||78||

 

Farid, answer evil with goodness; do not fill your mind with anger.

 

Your body shall not suffer from any disease, and you shall obtain everything. ||78||

 

 

and Jesus says:

 

 

Eye for Eye

 

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

 

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

Mathew 5-38-48

FOOTNOTES

Matthew 5:38 Exodus 21:24; Lev. 24:20; Deut. 19:21

Matthew 5:43 Lev. 19:18

 

 

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus says:

 

27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

 

—Luke 6:27-31. KJV

 

 

JESUS: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. Luke 6.27-30

 

BUDDHA: Hatreds do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth….. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good. Overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth. Dhammapada 1.5 & 17.3

 

http://www.heartforpeace.net/quotes_of_the_day.php

 

Buddhism during ashokas time existed in punjab, India and afghanistan elements of it went up to arabia and middle east.

 

How many people did Guru Nanak tell not to cut there hair to? Did Guru Nanak ever tell muslims not to cut there mostaches? Prophet muhammad says that satan sits there implying it is unhygenic he taught people to cut hair did Guru Nanak teach against this? Did Guru Nanak ever tell muslims not to circumcise there children? An English man who went to mecca had to circumcsie himself because when he went to such a country he knew he would be bathing with other men so if they saw him not being circumcised they would have killed him. Under the hanafi school of islam which ruled over mecca they would permit a non-muslim in the unity of God to enter mecca this was generally something moreso for christians the understandings between christians and muslims was much better then that towards hindus as they would even allow intermarriages at some points. Guru Nanak went to yogis who did not cut there hair and he taught against being asteics a teaching which belongs to prophet muhammad. Muhammad taught to live grist jeevan the married life and to pray in that. During rumis time alot of the middle east, persia (iran) and afghanistan had many different religions such as buddhists, christians etc. We might believe Islam spread by the sword but even with that they were not allowed to forcefully convert people something offcourse aurangzeb did, but those kings imposed jizyas, poll tax etc. sufism was a tool in that time period to convert people to islam as it was in India. In terms of the insane extremist attitude from muslims it is more of a minority even though they have political stage at the moment.

[laalsingh]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Sikh converted to islam

Allah Hoo Akbar.

BTW how do you know he is a Sikh? I might be missing something.

[Mr Sardar]

http://sufinews.blogspot.com/2005/12/sikh-sufi-relations-interview-with.html

From descendent of mian mir

"Could you tell us something about Guru Nanak and his relations with the Muslim Sufis?

As I see it, Baba Nanak Sahib did not intend to establish a new religion of his own. One of his principal aims was to build bridges of love and harmony between people of different faiths and communities, exhorting them to serve the one God. Now, in Arabic, one who surrenders himself or herself to God and God’s Will is called a ‘Muslim’, and this is why many Sufis consider Baba Nanak Sahib to have been a true Muslim. The Udasis or accounts of the travels of Baba Nanak Sahib tell us that he traveled to Mecca for the Haj. He is also said to have spent six long years in Baghdad, which was then a major centre for the Sufis. Here he studied with many leading Sufis of his day, and it is said that he was presented by the Sufis of the city with a turban as a token of respect and honor. In Baghdad , in the courtyard of the shrine of Hazrat Bahlol Danaai, a famous Sufi, there is a shrine which mentions that Baba Nanak Sahib stayed there. The shoes, the Muslim-style prayer mat [ja-namaz] and the blanket of Baba Nanak and the copy of the Holy Qur’an which he used to regularly read, are also preserved there. "

Guru Nanak challenged vedas but not koran. Bhagat Kabir challenged islam. However the bani is stressing on mukhti what sufis call whajjat al whuud. "wahdat-al wujud or the ‘unity of all being’, seeing the light of God in every particle of God’s creation."

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-734654418089458290#

Edited April 25, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[laalsingh]

Guru Nanak challenged vedas but not koran.

Read Bani first and then make statements, you fool.

Allah Hoo Akabar.

[Mr Sardar]

I think this is what rejected islam.

ਆਸਾ ॥

आसा ॥

Āsā.

Aasaa:

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਆਏ ਕਿਨਿ ਏਹ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਈ ॥

हिंदू तुरक कहा ते आए किनि एह राह चलाई ॥

Hinḏū ṯurak kahā ṯe ā▫e kin eh rāh cẖalā▫ī.

Where have the Hindus and Muslims come from? Who put them on their different paths?

ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਚਿ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ ਕਵਾਦੇ ਭਿਸਤ ਦੋਜਕ ਕਿਨਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੧॥

दिल महि सोचि बिचारि कवादे भिसत दोजक किनि पाई ॥१॥

Ḏil mėh socẖ bicẖār kavāḏe bẖisaṯ ḏojak kin pā▫ī. ||1||

Think of this, and contemplate it within your mind, O men of evil intentions. Who will go to heaven and hell? ||1||

ਕਾਜੀ ਤੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਬਖਾਨੀ ॥

काजी तै कवन कतेब बखानी ॥

Kājī ṯai kavan kaṯeb bakẖānī.

O Qazi, which book have you read?

ਪੜ੍ਹਤ ਗੁਨਤ ਐਸੇ ਸਭ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

पड़्हत गुनत ऐसे सभ मारे किनहूं खबरि न जानी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Paṛĥaṯ gunaṯ aise sabẖ māre kinhūʼn kẖabar na jānī. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Such scholars and students have all died, and none of them have discovered the inner meaning. ||1||Pause||

ਸਕਤਿ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕਰੀਐ ਮੈ ਨ ਬਦਉਗਾ ਭਾਈ ॥

सकति सनेहु करि सुंनति करीऐ मै न बदउगा भाई ॥

Sakaṯ sanehu kar sunaṯ karī▫ai mai na baḏ▫ugā bẖā▫ī.

Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny.

ਜਉ ਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕਰੈਗਾ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥

जउ रे खुदाइ मोहि तुरकु करैगा आपन ही कटि जाई ॥२॥

Ja▫o re kẖuḏā▫e mohi ṯurak karaigā āpan hī kat jā▫ī. ||2||

If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. ||2||

ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕੀਏ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਜੇ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਅਉਰਤ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀਐ ॥

सुंनति कीए तुरकु जे होइगा अउरत का किआ करीऐ ॥

Sunaṯ kī▫e ṯurak je ho▫igā a▫uraṯ kā ki▫ā karī▫ai.

If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?

ਅਰਧ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਛੋਡੈ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੀ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੩॥

अरध सरीरी नारि न छोडै ता ते हिंदू ही रहीऐ ॥३॥

Araḏẖ sarīrī nār na cẖẖodai ṯā ṯe hinḏū hī rahī▫ai. ||3||

She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. ||3||

ਛਾਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਬਉਰੇ ਜੁਲਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥

छाडि कतेब रामु भजु बउरे जुलम करत है भारी ॥

Cẖẖād kaṯeb rām bẖaj ba▫ure julam karaṯ hai bẖārī.

Give up your holy books, and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly.

ਕਬੀਰੈ ਪਕਰੀ ਟੇਕ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਤੁਰਕ ਰਹੇ ਪਚਿਹਾਰੀ ॥੪॥੮॥

कबीरै पकरी टेक राम की तुरक रहे पचिहारी ॥४॥८॥

Kabīrai pakrī tek rām kī ṯurak rahe pacẖihārī. ||4||8||

Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord's Support, and the Muslims have utterly failed. ||4||8||

In islam the koran has said: "Why are not signs sent down to him from his Lord? Say: "The signs are only with Allah (qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi), and I am ONLY a plain warner (wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenun)." S. 29:50 Hilali-Khan

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/only_warner.html

"And, indeed We have sent Messengers before you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him»); of some of them We have related to you their story, and of some We have not related to you their story." (40:78)

"And We sent not before you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him») but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder (Scriptures) if you do not know. And We did not create them (the Messengers, with) bodies that ate not food, nor were they immortal." (21:8)

"Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers saying, ‘We believe in some but reject others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment." (4:150-151)

"Verily, We have inspired you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him») as We inspired Nooh (Noah) and the Prophets after him."

(4:163)

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets." (33:40)

The sufis believed that krishna and buddha were prophets hence they took there teachings and created mysticism from that creating there own poetry. So bhagat bikhian did jaap of har he believed lord krishna was a prophet. As did sheikh farid take aspects of jesus gospels incorporated into his bani. Baba Kabir rejected islam and followed guru ramanand as he seemed to dislike the idea of concubines. I know these things may strike offensive but alot of this aspect of borderline nature of sufism of sikhism has confused alot of sikhs in majority and the panthic scholars themselves do not fully understand so it is better that we look into it to finalise the understand for future generations before muslim preachers take advantage of our lack of knowledge of this subject and convert us and if we are wrong which we all doubt then to claim a separate religion from what the sufis are saying then we can atleast know why. Also did the sufis keep concubines? Additionally the word turk generally reffered to people from uzbeikstan, turkey those who were cold blooded killers and rapists such as the moghuls these people also killed many muslims unless at that point of time the two terms were synonymous. Sorry that statement I made earlier I forgot to state is not my own it was the ahmedia kalifas statement I am aware maharaj says do not call the vedas or katebs false, false is he who calls them false and does not contemplate on there spirtual knowledge. Alot of us are bitter with islam after what jhangir, aurangzeb and muhammad ali jinnah after creation of pakistan did but even forceful conversion to islam is not allowed for them however if as sikhs we are going to move forward with our own religion we have to at least establish dialogue of faiths so as to do our own parchar to them. Sorry the quote is slightly wrong bhul chuuk maaf karna.

Edited April 25, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

http://jaiyan.khosa.org/a-research-paper-on-guru-nanak

"From Whom and From Where

Guru Nanak had six paths in which the goal at the end of the path was a union with God. McLeod (1968) describes this path as being, first, the interior religion: the emphasis on religion as an inward experience; second, loving devotion to God: love is the basic expression of religion; this is similar to the Bhakti movement within India at the time; third, nam simaran: the loving of the Name and not just simply the repeating of it; forth, natural results: a movement closer to God through meditation and to the final absorption of the man into Him; fifth, the ascent to higher and higher levels of understanding and experience, and lastly, the Ultimate: the blending of the individual light in the Light of God. This merging, or becoming at One with All There Is, is difficult to distinguish from some other teachings at the time; from Nath yogi’s and from some Sufi sources (McLeod, 1968, p. 207-226). Many scholars have indeed brought this up before; McLeod’s The Influence of Islam Upon The Thought of Guru Nanak seeks to look into what conclusions we can draw, if any, about an Islamic or Hindu influence upon Guru Nanak’s teachings and thoughts. Also, Nikky-Guninder Kaur Singh (1992) analyzes McLeod and points out that his main suggestion is that Guru Nanak’s thoughts were “strongly influenced by the Sant or Nirguna tradition of Northern India” (p. 342).

The Sant Tradition, according to McLeod (1968), was a combination of traditions which drew influence from Vaisnava Bhakti (divine love directed to one of the ancient incarnations of Visnu), tantric-yoga similar to the Nath sect of yogis, and Sufi orders. Singh (1992) states that McLeod does not emphasize the marginal influence of the Sufi order, but asserts that “it was this Sant tradition which provided the basis of Guru Nanak’s thought” (p. 342). Looking further into the actual writings of McLeod reveals that, yes, even though he believes that the most striking feature of Nanak’s religious environment throughout his life was that of the Bhakti movement, it “should not imply any denial of the originality of Guru Nanak’s thought” (McLeod, 1968, p. 316). His analysis goes deep into relating the specific teachings of Guru Nanak with those of Punjabi Sufi’s at the time, with whom the author points out were different from the Classical Sufi’s such as Junaid, Hallaj, Ghazali, and Rumi. McLeod also points out that if “this particular type of Sufism exercised an influence upon Guru Nanak, it would [have been] a mediated Sant influence rather than a distinctively Sufi contribution” (p. 317). For example, Guru Nanak’s discipline doctrine of nam simaran, as noted above, does not correspond to the Sufi technique of dhikr, or the repetition of the name Allah. Moreover, Guru Nanak’s doctrine of Hukam, discussed in the previous section, is obviously an Arabic word; however, that which it expresses is not (p. 313). It is obvious that within the society that Guru Nanak lived, he would have come across many different types of religious figures and ideas. So, it can be said that Guru Nanak was able to take what was around him and express it in a way that was unique to him."

http://www.haqqanisoul.com/forum/topics/guru-nanak-was-a-muslim

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/sikh/T39CRAD3PHADA9GBE

Edited April 28, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

http://www.islam-sikhism.info/hist/muslim/muslim01.htm

[Mr Sardar]

Question is through any history does it state Guru Nanak ever giving salat/namaz at all? He must have read the quran at least once.

http://www.haqqanisoul.com/forum/topics/guru-nanak-was-a-muslim?page=1&commentId=2963414%3AComment%3A84880&x=1#2963414Comment84880

That chola/juba has shahada and sura-al-fatiah which is similar to mool mantar.

In syria a mosque has been built where guru nanak went it is called walli hind

When he went to hindu places he got the hindus to stop doing idol worship with muslims he joined them more towards there own faith.

"It has been learned that a platform of Nanak Wali still exists in honour the vist of the Guru in the Suburban area of Cairo. [sikh soldiers] saw a platform towards the south of the town of Kaikai which was stated to be the place where the Master had met with the Sultan and that the Sikh soldiers had congregation and sacrement there".

Prof Chahal, - Sikh soldiers had fought in Egypt where they had reportedly found a stone in memory of Guru Nanak. Where is that stone and why didn’t they raise any such monument there?”

If it is proved that Guru Nanak had visited Turkey, then it would authenticate some Janamsakhis which claimed that after Mecca, the Sikh guru visited Egypt and then from Kahira, he went to Palestine, Syria and Turkey.

It is also believed that "from Arabia Guru Nanak reached Egypt and then travelled through North African countries."

The style of gurbani such as dohra is similar to sufis before him. Another thing would be is the verification of the gurgaddi of Guru angad dev ji where do we have it stated this occured sikhism from persian history refutes this event.

Edited April 28, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[amardeep]

Its written in the early janam sakhi collections written during the days of Guru Angad (Waliyat wali janam sakhi comes to mind) as well as in bhatta de sawaiye and bhai gurdaas vaaaran

[Mr Sardar]

Even the story of the revelation of japji starting from ik on kar and slowly revealing itself is similar to people like rumi these people who were muslim. Guru Nanak never explicitly rejected prophethood of muhammad this was more so done with guru gobind singh perhaps due to the nature of islamic law. Guru Nanak spent most his life under it.

Guru harkrishan i believe said the hindus and muslims are satanic. During the time of Guru Arjan dev ji he attracted hindus and muslims all over punjab even the sufis. But they were reciting Guru Nanak's bani and when it comes to other mahalas of bani they use alot of "kaho nanak" so iterations. And the style of the bani follows on in the same/similar format.

There are similar used by waris shah and others who took training from sufis to write kalaams each one of them having there own spirtual qualities (experiences of wajjat al whuud alike to recitation of gurbani) even reading heer ranjha which begins with the praise of the prophet muhammad. Heer ranjha zikir is done in gurbani. When it comes to heretical remarks towards islam they were common from sufis however they were still muslim.

Maybe there is more to do with the actual rejection of islam in a janamsakhi or so? Additionally had Guru Nanak accepted islam hindus would have killed him had he explicitly rejected islam muslims would have killed him. Are we the mystical followers to come to our own conclusion? Islam says when a person dies the angel of death asks him who is his prophet if he mentions any other then muhammad he will be punished in the grave before going to hell after judgement day. What are sikh scholars take on this? Bhagat Kabir ji says all the prophets are his. Alot of the teachings of Guru Nanak presented in an esoteric manner to simple hindus of that time who were illiterate can be traced originally to the haddiths of the prophet muhammad.

To hindus Guru Nanak was an avtar a God a Guru while to muslims a sufi pir/fakir, when it came to religious knowledge of that time we find alot of the upper class of society were highly educated in religion. Gurbani says "let those dogs be burnt which say god is subjected to death/birth i.e. avtar". Alike to teaching of Islam of rejection of a human being divine where this was normal in Hinduism. Under islamic rule all upper class hand to take islamic education including Guru Nanak. So guru sahib must have known all haddiths and quran as his family were very rich land owning hindus who have high status in his time. As for bhakti vaishnaism as time has gone on we after studying gurbani understand that ram in gurbani is not ramchandar but the all powerful master of the universe who people called ram same for gopal/krishna/gobind. The God of sikhism is more like the God of islam then the concept of avtar in hinduism it has explained this to us using the language of our ancestors things have been related simply for us. The sufis helped sikhs alot again and again perhaps they realised one day hindus will learn the nature of God through sikhism? Aurangzeb was completely insane. We understand Guru Nanak to be the same as Guru Gobind Singh. Guru gobind singh said "who so ever calls me supreme god will go and burn in the darkest pits of hell".

When it comes to khalsa governing we tend to inherient alot of persian doctrines there is a sau sakhi in which guru gobind singh forbids sikhs from learning persian maybe it may have been fabricated sau sakhi. But alot of the stance of what the khalsa is supposed to be for is similar to how cyrus the great was as a zorostrain king such as being pluarists. The works of the persian philosophers can be found through gurbani, such thinkers like rumi, shams, ghazali, we also see characteristics like Saladin's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin) etc. Guru Gobind Singh instructed khalsa not to touch women and to only answer the sword not to rise it first this was a teaching also of prophet muhammad. Majority of sikhs in that time period were illiterate low casted people while the moghuls went and converted high casted, hindus who were extremly literate and we see alot of conflict between high caste people throughout history with sikhs which has left a mark on even attitudes of sikhs towards hating khatris etc. There was alot of resentment for muslims at that time period as there is now today. The relationship of asias various religions does need work due to alot of conflict for many years.

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਲਹ ਨੂਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕੇ ਸਭ ਬੰਦੇ ॥

अवलि अलह नूरु उपाइआ कुदरति के सभ बंदे ॥

Aval alah nūr upā▫i▫ā kuḏraṯ ke sabẖ banḏe.

First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.

ਏਕ ਨੂਰ ਤੇ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਕਉਨ ਭਲੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਦੇ ॥੧॥

एक नूर ते सभु जगु उपजिआ कउन भले को मंदे ॥१॥

Ėk nūr ṯe sabẖ jag upji▫ā ka▫un bẖale ko manḏe. ||1||

From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

SGGS ANG 1349 Bhagat Kabir Ji

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

Quran 49: 13

There are many similarities even verses in gurbani and quran which talk about aliens/angels/etc. in the universe.

Edited April 28, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[laalsingh]

Additionally had Guru Nanak accepted islam hindus would have killed him

good one.

Islam says when a person dies the angel of death asks him who is his prophet if he mentions any other then muhammad he will be punished in the grave before going to hell after judgement day.

another good one.

[Mr Sardar]

You know today there are many muslims who have to hide there faith during slave trade many africans were muslims even michael jackson was and many other guys are even obama is muslim he has to hide it and he is allowed to due to al-taquia and other doctrines. We generally are comming to understand guru nanak having been less then 1/3 sufi borderline and 2/3 little bit more vaishnaist bhakti marg saint/avtar. However the doctrines of islam always tend to have a dominant nature to them where hinduism tends to have a recessive nature to it. In the time Guru Nanak spent in those muslim countries had he not gone by custom he would have likely been killed. Guru Nanak was asked are you hindu or muslim he says "if i say I am a hindu you will kill me, and I am not a muslim my name is nanak bedi a puppet of 5 elements". The practioners of taswuuf have this nature to them.

A typical answer of a sufi as the sufis practicing the doctrines of humilitiy had a nature to believe that the path of islam is very high and to fully it fully is difficult so to call themself is a muslim is too much for them. There are many sufi muslims who say they are not a muslim, however the general case they are observing the tradition as they are not rejecting it. As for miracles Guru Nanak performed many sufis perform miracles aswell but did he perform these miracles to outweigh the prophet muhammad in denying the prophet muhammad's prophethood. To declare prophet muhammad as a false prophet? In sikh history from persian sources it states Guru nanak was a sufi and he had a sucessor it does not make mention of bhai lehna as the sucessor to become guru angad dev ji.

This is mentioned in suraj prakash granth. Guru Angad dev ji bani is great it is mahapaap to deny his gurgaddi but even in that time there where many people claiming gurgaddi as people do today. We find even sufis today in islamic countries performing miracles aswell as even orthodox muslims performing miracles (supernatural displays). As for writing of bani people in gurusahibs time wrote bani then and even today sufis, hindu saints even sai baba wrote scripture/poetry all muslim kings wrote poetry with great impact which has a similar poetic style and meter. Bulleh Shah wrote in a similar meter to our gurus aswell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafi

http://www.apnaorg.com/

Why consider the bani of sheikh farid if you do not believe in the prophet hood of muhammad? There are sufis in pakistan who don't do proper 5 prayers who sit down like fakirs and sing sufi songs all day and even look like sikhs. Even singing sheikh farid bani/kaalam. But is this bani to reject the kalaam of prophet muhammad? Is it to say muhammad did not get a revelation from gabriel at all? Our Gurus did perform miracles but there are gursikhs who perform miracles aswell if they practice enough.

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

बेद कतेब कहहु मत झूठे झूठा जो न बिचारै ॥

Beḏ kaṯeb kahhu maṯ jẖūṯẖe jẖūṯẖā jo na bicẖārai.

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

SGGS BANI BHAGAT KABIR ANG 1350

Edited April 28, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

Muslims today criticise Sikhism as being a separate religion based on the idea that it does not have juridistical system or anything equal to shariah where states rules for people. Also they believe it is an invention of the british in divide, conquer and rule also many criticise it as saying it was by the hindus to go against muslims by doing everything they do the opposite like instead of cutting beards they grow and not eating halal they have there own jatka. They say in ancient times "ik baba, ik babur" Guru Nanaks court was as famous as his and even babur respected guru nanak alot. Guru Hargobind ji established miri-piri and even mian mir respected him by offering his hand for the child to get on a horse. We find alot of people in the past lied both muslims and hindus and today we have taken out so many fake elements of sikhism such as idol worship during masand period, the masands even had concubines in darbar sahib. Just after 200 years the chola/juba with quranic verses has been shown to sikhs, we justify this by saying Guru Nanak respected Islam but to what extent did Guru nanak actually respect Islam? The hindus of that time and after all hated Islam and that same nature is in sikhs today. Another question would be is how practically is the kesh tradition in modern times does God want every man in the entirety of humanity not to cut his hair is this possible yes/no ?

From Guru Gobind Singh ji maharajs zafarnama gurusahib had great knowledge of islam even more then aurangzeb himself at point (aurangzeb went after many sufis who he did terrible stuff to), our rehats were written by bhai nand lal a great non-muslim islamic scholar. Economically it would have benefitted them to become muslim they would have had palaces, women, concubines. So from a muslim point of view what is sikhism as a separate religion from islams direction, are we going to make arabs grow there hair and do paath one day? Is it for a sikh to convert a muslim to sikhism when guru nanak spent time getting muslims to practice there faith and when scholars of sikhism like baba nand singh got muslims to follow there religion. With the nature of the media it gets difficult for singhs to keep kesh why would parcharaks tell muslims to keep following there faith when we don't cut kesh. When muslim boys are marrying and converting sikh girls and our own population is going down when islam is becomming the fastest growing religion in the world at a very high rapid population breading rate to overpopulate the world with muslims who are professionals in most fields and we end up working under them.

Is sikhism going to take over the world when it is going down in punjab and when punjabis cut there hair? Pretty much most muslim texts state guru nanak to be a muslim with later gurus being written down as the pir of the hindus whereas guru nanak is hind ka pir (the pir from india). Hind ka wali, it was recently the iraq monument of guru nanak was discovered moreso in world war 1 it was abandoned and according to damdami taksal last used by baba deep singh for parchar of sikhi. Throughout sikh history we have many instances of fake gurus appearing even though they performed miracles and even had bani. Today akj have started questioning elements of guru granth sahib even angs/pages of it, how much of our history do we have in tact? Alot of our practices have gone into elements of being blind rituals like the hindus did in Guru Nanak's time having forgotten the purpose most of us don't even know why we keep kesh and what for? Muslims say Guru Nanak's beard was cropped. We find some janamsakhis saying Guru Nanak saying muhammads original sunnah was uncut hair. Which leads to a question someone having questioned the prophethood of muhammad says that? Where is the proof of guru nanak doubting prophethood of muhammad. We say he only sad la-illah-il-allah and only gave azan/bhang call for prayer of his own bani for which he was stoned- what about history from there sources? Additionally turkeys monument was recently discovered we are only going to the udassi places now and there maybe aspects of his own words which are not in gurbani having spent all this time in muslim countries he must have made mention of muhammad if he was a fake prophet or a true prophet or something? Even about salat or namaz or having done it himself?

Even the sufis also had langar traditions in place most of the teaching of gurmat comply with islam if not we say they were borrowed from there? Having rejected some elements which if we analyse are not always the case. Like women wearing niquabs covering face not all muslim women have to do that. Women had positions of power in islamic power of india and even in arab countries today. Muslim women used to wear turbans as for not cutting hair this is khalsa rehat from guru gobind singh which we are all struggling to keep. Polygamy sikhs committed polygamy where muslims were limited to just 4 wifes sikhs went past 4 had more, concubines maharaja ranjit singh had many probably other sikhs aswell. Today alot of sikhs sleep around even after having stood up against being sex maniacs and against concubines. Many muslims respected the sikh gurus apart from the insane nut cases we get and we have nut cases in every society, race, religion everywhere. The execution of the shabzedy actually violated islamic law and muslims protested against that. The mongolians were notirous for being murderers who killed many muslims aswell.

Have you even noticed how much we sikhs have in common with pakistani muslims who follow sufism, most upni who cut there kesh have so many similarities what difference is there between us. If there is only one true religion what is it? Sikhism or Islam? Sikhism teaches all paths to enlightenment are valid but openly our guru talked against idol worship, against polytheism, against emptry rituals, the same things muslims teach and go against. If sikhism tries to destroy religious labels entirely via free-thinking medium of religion then why don't we marry out of religion, many sikh girls think that way and end up marrying muslim boys only to convert? Islam claims to be the one only truth even sufism takes in the teaching that the quran says there have been prophets sent everywhere so for the path of mysticism they start learn from other religions like hinduism, buddhist, zorostrainism just like we find these teachings appearing in sikhi. We have the nature of pluralism but how can we be inclusive of an ideology which is exclusive? Has the prophet muhammad done something wrong in his religion which our gurus highlighted explicitly? When it comes to Aisha's age that was normal in that time even our own greatgrandparents married very young however something like that should not be done today. Sheikh farid used to recite his kaalam and converted many hindus to islam once a hindu tried to rob him and he went blind, sheikh farid prayed for him on the condition he convert to islam which he did and the thieves eyesight was returned. Sheikh farid would pray and he asked his mother why to pray she said sugar would come under your prayer mat which he prayed and his mother placed sugar under his prayer mat, once she forgot to and allah place sugar for him there. If we believe in sheikh farid do we believe in islam, the namaz/salat tradition can we ourselves do it? During maharaja ranjit singh raj they banned azan call for prayer and converted many to sikhism? Today our greatest parcharak is baba ranjit singh dhandrianwale and even he is underfire from our own people could he take on zakir naik in a debate?

When Guru Nanak bani says "har" is he talking about Allah or Krishna? When va-he-gu-ru has been composed of vishnu avtars of 4 ages from bhai gurdas ji vaaran saying this can we cross compare this to bhagat bhikhan a muslim who started to "har" bhajan. The vaaran also tell the story of Guru Nanak putting his feet towards kabbah but the sufis don't believe he did, they believe he did hajj also the vaaran don't have every janamsakhi in them which we are discovering from other sources. Today muslims have accepted what sufis of mian mir time said which was krishna was a prophet of God. Dasam bani talks about krishna having died by the grinding tooth of kal. All the sufis used to do har bhajan alot were very intrested in gita, and upnishads which dara shikoh translated to persian offcourse this annoyed aurangzeb as he hated sufism, hindus and sikhs he stood for only orthdox islam.

How different is Guru Nanak's separate religion to say something like what rumi teach's or what other sufis have taught in the past is there something newly revealed? There is a problem with rumis teaching it is too tighed to muhammadenism in the sense that the masses are not educated in islam so most muslims forinstance in Iran say Rumi was a good muslim so they ignore what rumi teach and they start concentrating purely on orthodox islam which alot of time has led to extremist interpretations being taken. Even though that happens our own gianis are not better then the imams we have some preachers into extremist version like babbar khalsa's offshots however we are a small minority of people so those kind of people do not have a big effect on the world. These issues go more into a point of view of a terrorist vs a freedom fighter.

Edited April 28, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

"Langar, a Persian word, means 'an almshouse', 'an asylum for the poor and the destitute', 'a public kitchen kept by a great man for his followers and dependants, holy persons and the needy.' Scholars trace the word langar to Sanskrit analgrh (cooking place). In Persian, the specific term langar has been in use in an identical sense. In addition to the word itself, the institution of langar is also traceable in the Persian tradition. Langars were a common feature of the Sufi centres in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. Even today

shrines of Sufi saints, run langars, like Khwaja Mu'in ud-Din Chishti's at Ajmer, Khwaja Qutub ud-Din Bakhtiar Kaki and Nizamuddin Auliya's at Delhi.

Serving of food has been a rich tradition in Indian and Persian Sufism, especially of the Chishti Order. There is extensive use of food imagery and metaphor in Sufi writings. Sugar and other sweet foods represent the sweetness of piety and community with God, while salt symbolizes purity and incorruptibility. Food is regarded as sacred and is treated reverentially. Through the pronouncement of the Provider's name during the food-making process, the food is imbued with spiritual and healing power, which is shared by those who eat the food. The transformation of the raw food to finished food is used as an analogy for Sufi spiritual development.

The virtuous are those who give food — however great be their want of it — unto the needy, the orphan, and the captive, saying, in their hearts, "We feed you for the sake of God alone: we desire no recompense from you, nor thanks: behold, we stand in awe of our Sustainer." "

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22308565@N07/2150577092/

Also to add this sakhi which is seen in many places, which many sants mahapurkh refute most jathas give the maryada to be veggeterian when you take amrit:

When the Guru visited Kurukshetra in Haryana, a big fair was being held at the holy tank to celebrate the solar eclipse. There were a large number of pilgrims all over the country. On his arrival at the fair, Guru Nanak had Mardana cook them a meat dish of a deer presented to them by one of his followers. Upon finding that meat was being cooked on the holy premises, a large angry crowd gathered in anger to attack the Guru for what they thought amounted to sacrilege (Bhai Mani Singh, Gyan Ratnavali, pg. 123). Upon hearing the angry crowd Guru Nanak responded;

"Only fools argue whether to eat meat or not. They don't understand truth nor do they meditate on it. Who can define what is meat and what is plant? Who knows where the sin lies, being a vegetarian or a non- vegetarian?" (Malhar)

Also Bhai Mardana a muslim remained always with Guru Nanak. When the quran says:

"O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them. Qur'an (3:118)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm

Additionally we are today from studying janamsakhis also questioning the existence of bhai bala and now many sikhs are saying there was no bhai bala but a later addition by hindus to hindunize the faith. If such a thing could happen what other forms of alteration in our history are possible?

http://www.sikhism101.com/node/231

If a muslim was to tell us Guru Nanak is a muslim and or sikhism has been created out of Islam it would offend us all but can we really debate that? We could Say Islam was created from pre-existing religions before it.

Muhammad's haddith says that heaven has been made haram for everyone except those who follow him. So anyone not following his path will go to hell.

India has always had a problem with people taking there women from the time of ram and sita. These moghuls would capture women this is what created some of the biggest tension between sikhs (hindus) of that time and muslims which even led to the creation of the sikh empire ontop of afghanistan. The whole issues of concubines began as a means of looking after women who had been captured in war where compared to other factions who would rape women.

God has forbidden the believers from backbiting

O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion, in deeds some suspicions are sins. And spy not neither backbite one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it (so hate backbiting). And fear God, verily, God is the one who accepts repentance, Most Merciful. Quran (49: 12)

ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਮਲੁ ਮੁਖ ਸੁਧੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲੁ ॥

पर निंदा पर मलु मुख सुधी अगनि क्रोधु चंडालु ॥

Par ninḏā par mal mukẖ suḏẖī agan kroḏẖ cẖandāl.

Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth. The fire of anger is the outcaste who burns dead bodies at the crematorium.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji SGGS ANG 15

Islam also having listed satan as an enemy also talks about Nafs, sufis always focus on the nafs.

Characteristics of nafs

In its primitive state the nafs has seven heads that must be defeated

False pride (Takabbur)

Greed (Hirs)

Envy (Hasad)

Lust (Shahwah)

Backbiting (Gheebah)

Stinginess (Bokhl)

Malice (Keena)

Gurbani refers to Indian theology of 5 thieves kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hankar

lust, anger, greed, wordly attachment and pride/ego.

Edited April 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

 

 

Due to the moghuls the hindus had this "allergy" of muslims so we would have never understood sufism. Many sufis tried however failed and muslims in those times had an "allergy" to hindus so they would have not understood bhagti vaishniaism however the shabads which maharaj sang was subjective to those set of people, but they were more distinct from the bhagati movement quite a different from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara

[Mr Sardar]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2299609665370606339#

 

Dr. Sir Mohd. Iqbal said, after reading Japji, "that Guru Nanak understood Islamic faith better than any learned Muslim." source:http://www.sikhreview.org/pdf/march2003/pdf-files/editor.pdf this quote is said quite alot

 

 

For those who are well-versed with gurbani and it's style see anything similar:

 

 

The real work belongs to someone who desires God

and has severed himself from every other work.

The rest are like children who play together until it gets dark

for these few short days.

Or like someone who awakes and springs up, still drowsy,

and then is lulled back to sleep (...)

If you are wise, you, yourself,

will tear up your slumber by the roots,

like the thirsty man who heard the noise of the water.

God says to you, "I am the sound of water

in the ears of the thirsty;

I am rain falling from heaven.

Spring up, lover, show some excitement!

How can you hear the sound of water and then fall back asleep!"

 

Rumi, Mathnawi VI, 586-592, quoted in: Helminski, Kabir (2000). The Rumi Collection. P.63.

 

By God, don't linger

in any spiritual benefit you have gained,

but yearn for more - like one suffering from illness

whose thirst for water is never quenched.

This Divine Court is the Plane of the Infinite.

 

Rumi, Mathnawi III, 1960, quoted in: Helminski, Kabir (2000). The Rumi Collection. P.96.

 

The thirsty man is moaning, "O delicious water!"

The water is calling, "Where is the one who will drink me?"

This thirst in our souls is the magnetism of the Water:

We are Its, and It is ours.

 

Rumi, Mathnawi III, 4399, quoted in: Helminski, Kabir (2000). The Rumi Collection. P.108.

 

There is a similarity between shabad hazare http://www.3ho.org/kundalini-yoga/tantric-numerology/personal-sadhana/shabad-hazaray.pdf and even one of rumis works which I once came across.

 

A modern day sufi wrote about Guru Nanak aswell here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/24369178/Tasawwuf-the-Spirit-of-Sufism

 

I personally believe to proove this we would have to go or ask people there in egypt, syria, and other islamic countries to show us what nanak did there was he someone who started his own faith or a sufi who practiced the doctrine of islam. Also sufis do tend to use the mystic works of previous sufis before them aswell. If you present gurbani to a muslim they will say that this is Islam the only biggest difference being reincarnation a teaching which alot of sikhs are doubting if we can proove it then why not teach it to muslims, and there are sufis who did believe in reincarnation aswell. If Guru Nanak wanted to start his own religion why would he not preach it to those people rather then create mosques and teach islam to them maybe from rumi's perspective.

[Mr Sardar]

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:LDg8lbqupa4J:www.sikhroots.com/docman/doc_download/16-sikh-religion-a-islam+similarities+sikhism+islam+8.4&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiMsREUd6TQTi-Bzempt6cHNFqRtyVyqffCzffnDZtRFItY37_SILpShKGRP180_mVbaxMRmC07vfN1U7kSStKDdSV9NiCapX3TQMHU_0KSpBXEEd0oPV6SLxFgz3TQInauQHUS&sig=AHIEtbTFSNgDX3rZ7WhJ9n4rydSePqOpIQ

 

The sufis also include versus of the quran into there poems we can find aspects of gurbani which can be traced to the quran. Are we to say the quran is wrong in some parts and right in others? Islam has had many problems but those problems were even prophecised by the prophet muhammad to happen. As for Guru Nanak we can only find one prophecy online which talks of his comming and that is in the vedas however some people claim they checked it up and Guru Nanak is not mentioned in the vedas. Additionally the vedas originated from turkmeinstein in much ancient times and came with the aryans to afghanistan then further to India. They are very ancient and difficult to understand when they talk about agni devta and indira.

 

Reason for creation of khalsa

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/khalsa.html

 

Even the descendents of Bhai Mardana are still Muslim today after knowing so much about Islam, why have they not embraced sikhi? http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/arts/rebabiMardana/RebabiMardana.htm Most the upper caste hindus who became muslim and are rich living in pakistan read about sikhism but do not embrace it why so? Are we universalistic but to what respect? Guru Nanak is recorded as a wali (walliat) pir. Pirs are given a status slightly lower then prophet muhammad even though many of us percieve them to be prophets. A rasool nabi is different to a walliat, where a rasool has direct revelation from God and a walli has a connection with God however there works are considered intresting and mystical but not to impose ontop of Islamic doctrine. What is the sangats view on this? Should we actively be doing parchar to correct such an element that was said about Guru Nanak since he first came or does it hold?

My link

[Xylitol]

A Muslim belief is that the secret door of the Qaba will open for the last prophet; it opened for Guru Nanak Sahib ji. This is written in Bhai Gurdass ji's vaars. Also written in the vaars is that the Guru saw all teh swargs and naraks, while the prophet could only see a very limited number of them. When one can see everything, rejecting the limited view of someone who cannot see everything is no paap.

[Mr Sardar]

But Muslims believe the prophet muhammad is the final prophet the seal of the prophets other then that the only prophecies that they have is of imam mahdi and if Guru Nanak is imam mahdi how do we prove that? Isn't it our duty to tell muslims this and to preach this so they accept sikhism. http://www.irshad.org/islam/prophecy/mahdi.htm

http://www.adishakti.org/prophecies/18_imam_mahdi_has_surfaced.htm

http://www.iawwai.com/MuslimProphecies.html

http://bdsteel.tripod.com/More/Prophecy.htm

http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/imam.html

The prophecy will need some looking into depth rather then skimming so translations aswell.

Other then his prophecy of mahdi there is the prophecy of the dajjal anti-christ, satan. And many muslims believed Guru Gobind Singh and his sikhs to be demonic hence why they went after sikhs and called all his miracles satanic. They had immense hatred towards the devil.

So to muslims Guru Nanak is either a sufi muslim or a dajjal(deciever anti-christ) whose goal is to divert people away from God's path so they can go to hell so muslims believe either Guru Nanak was a true muslim in which they respect him or an anti-christ or from what we are seeing someone who was borderline sufi i.e. borderline muslim.

The secret door of mecca opening where is this prophecy written?

I would say we really need to know the sakhis of Guru Nanak in muslim countries such as syria, egypt and so on. In mecca Guru Nanak gave a shabad in which he gave the definition of fakiri and being a pir. All the people there attributed him to being a pir i.e. sufi. In the past the hindus and sikhs thought pir meant a great prophet like figure when it means someone following mohammad and for muslims they tended to also give respect towards us perhaps with the intention that we convert to islam. The sufis tend to present islam to people in such regions to the way they understand religion so by presenting an arabic tradition to hindus in the form of hinduism. The people then were not ready to understand these things and politics of those time did not allow for us to aswell. The hatred from hindus was clearly immense, had Guru Nanak accepted islam he could have been protected by muslim goverment of that time but the message of God would have not been spread at all. Guru Nanak has not really contradicted islam at all to any further extent then any other sufi. Sufis in the past have had similar nature however they still worked in the scope of the haddiths and quran they just explained it to people like even the idea of killing someone who leaves islam is not even supposed to be done but muslims do it. Or sheikh farid explaining music and dancing are not entirely haram just the nature of them is.

We find Guru Nanak to have presented doctrines present in haddiths in a hindu idea of understanding to the hindus but he went to muslim countries and taught islam to muslims in islamic doctrines he did not teach hinduism so much to them he has talked on the lines of rumi even though rumi took elements of hinduism and buddhism but those teaching were widespread aswell, they can be found in the gospel of jesus christ and the quran. We are also finding now that jesus came to India alot of proof is suggesting this today christians believe the quran has been written down from oral dictations of gospels of christ after 600 years after jesus they were taught in arabia by word of mouth. Even how namaz is done is the way jesus prayed and jesus also used to call God allah. Guru Nanak has not talked about the day of judgement and in todays newer translations of the bible this idea is thinning into different contexts now especially from gnostic gospels.

The sufis were heavily influenced by christianity in gurbani sheikh farid ji says:

farida bure da bala kar gusa man na hadaye.

dehi rog na lagayi pale sab kich paye. ||78||

Farid, answer evil with goodness; do not fill your mind with anger.

Your body shall not suffer from any disease, and you shall obtain everything. ||78||

and Jesus says:

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Mathew 5-38-48

FOOTNOTES

Matthew 5:38 Exodus 21:24; Lev. 24:20; Deut. 19:21

Matthew 5:43 Lev. 19:18

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus says:

27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

—Luke 6:27-31. KJV

JESUS: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. Luke 6.27-30

BUDDHA: Hatreds do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth….. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good. Overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth. Dhammapada 1.5 & 17.3

http://www.heartforpeace.net/quotes_of_the_day.php

Buddhism during ashokas time existed in punjab, India and afghanistan elements of it went up to arabia and middle east.

How many people did Guru Nanak tell not to cut there hair to? Did Guru Nanak ever tell muslims not to cut there mostaches? Prophet muhammad says that satan sits there implying it is unhygenic he taught people to cut hair did Guru Nanak teach against this? Did Guru Nanak ever tell muslims not to circumcise there children? An English man who went to mecca had to circumcsie himself because when he went to such a country he knew he would be bathing with other men so if they saw him not being circumcised they would have killed him. Under the hanafi school of islam which ruled over mecca they would permit a non-muslim in the unity of God to enter mecca this was generally something moreso for christians the understandings between christians and muslims was much better then that towards hindus as they would even allow intermarriages at some points. Guru Nanak went to yogis who did not cut there hair and he taught against being asteics a teaching which belongs to prophet muhammad. Muhammad taught to live grist jeevan the married life and to pray in that. During rumis time alot of the middle east, persia (iran) and afghanistan had many different religions such as buddhists, christians etc. We might believe Islam spread by the sword but even with that they were not allowed to forcefully convert people something offcourse aurangzeb did, but those kings imposed jizyas, poll tax etc. sufism was a tool in that time period to convert people to islam as it was in India. In terms of the insane extremist attitude from muslims it is more of a minority even though they have political stage at the moment.

Edited April 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

"As far as I know Baba Guru Nanak was great MUSLIM sufi who even went to perform Haj.Imagine the degree of his devotion he traveled across continent for this purpose.He even went to Banaras to find commonality in religions.He was born in hindu household.And believed in One God.Whom he affectionately called "Wahe Guru".He NEVER declared a separate religin in his life time.Formal Sikhism was formed hundreds of year after him.Sikhs developed separate identity for unity against onslaught of Mughals.Even foundation stone of their holiest of shrine "Golden Temple" was laid by greatest Muslim sufi saint Of his time Hazrat Mian Meer.You have to understand Sufis do not divisive but inclusive.They have romantic version of concept of God and religion.Which at times disagrees with conventional"wisdom"." http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/39578-sikh-praising-islam.html

http://www.sikhism101.com/node/231

Most of us grew up believing in bhai bhala and now he has been taken out of the picture that the infamous bhai sobha singh painted of guru sahib in which guru sahib holds a flower in his hand. This practice of holding flowers is something even sufi masters did.

http://www.justsikh.com/files/images/Guru%20Nanak-800X600.preview.jpg

Bhai bhala janamsakhis are used in gurdwaras today all around but even today people have now declared them unauthentic and have stated that bhai sahib mani singh wrote janamsakhis which are authentic. Bhai Bhala janamsakhi states the rejection of prophet muhammad when guru sahib meets sheikh ibrahim as the need of an intercessor for wajjat-al-whuud or what hindus called moksha which in punjabi is mukhti. Even the development of sikhi rejecting drinking of alcohol was discovered by macaufille in islam it is haram however sikhs used to drink like the moghuls. There are many parallels in which if we start reading the haddiths we even find lost rehat which we are supposed to have today such as praising God before we eat or go toilet etc. which have been written in by baba nand singh nanaksar rehat. What sikhism is today is thanks to the sewa of maharaja ranjit singh but when we study his life we learn even he was ignorant of sikhi rehat otherwise just a heretic in himself, however his empire which somewhat a fusion between the court of Guru Gobind Singh and Akbar both which we can see were inspired by persia's cyrus the great for being immensely religious tolerant in a time of intolerance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder

Maharaja ranjit singh in his possesion had janamsakhis which painted guru nanak more as a hindu, ranjit singh himself used to do devi pooja. Ranjit singh had 7 wifes who commited sati. Ranjit singh also believed guru nanak respected islam so in that sense he even paid for a caligraphy work of the quran which he showed respect to. However in his time the muslim moulla were insane who incited hatred as there are many now and in guru sahibs time so he had restrictions placed on them i.e. banning azan in punjab.

The moghuls after studying sikhism found one thing disrespectful about islam which was:

‘Mitti Musalman ki peire paee Kumiar; Ghar bhandei itan kia, jaldi karei pukar.’(Asa Mohalla 1, P-466)

‘The ashes of the Mohammadan fall into the potter’s clod; Vessels and bricks are fashioned from them; they cry out as they burn. (Translation of the above)

However today muslims studying the haddiths say going to dargahs is wrong and no different to idol worship and is shirk. We find in a janamsakhi guru nanak says his followers will end up worshipping the granth. In islam muslims are not allowed to associate any partner with allah as this is shirk the biggest sin a muslim can ever do, and if you notice most muslims educated in islam who go to a gurdwara will not prostrate infront of guru granth sahib including pirs themself they may touch the ground infront of it as a sign of respect. Which is also in our rehat marayada and most rehat we have are newly created by various movements, as for purthan rehat many of them have controversial things in them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)

However that being said in terms of bowing infront of a murshid there are elements in sufism which allow the kissing of hand or feet in islam and many other aspects of bowing which do exist. Guru Nanak is declared as a practioner of tawhid. We find Nihangs even making muslims eating pork in the books of muslim historians it says Guru Nanak forbid his followers from eating pork his langar tradition was veggeterian to make in inclusive of even hindus. When studying such a mater we can not be closed minded we have to analyse such a mater from all angles even from muslim historians, french aswell as european historians and hindu historians. India has had a way of destroying religions that challenged Brahmanism such as buddhism. So we really have to investigate in Mohammedan countries such as syria. Guru Sahib taught us to be free thinkers as the sufis taught muslims to be aswell.

(In the Court of Guru Nanak)

The Ruler and the Pauper were equal.

He brought into vogue the practice of bowing at each other’s feet.

What a wonderful feat the Beloved wrought!

Lo, the head bows at the feet.

xxxxxxx

Do not give up the practice of bowing at others’ feet.

For in the Kaliyug this is the path.

xxxxxxx

A Sikh should adopt the practice of bowing at another’s feet;

He should listen to the advice of the (other) Gursikh, and

ponder over what he says.

Bhai gurdas ji vaaran http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bole_So_Nihal

There are many sikhs who forbid touching of feet as they say this is sin and a sikh should only bow infront of guru maharaj.

The more we go in from our history the more we are learning that we are much further away from hinduism then we are to islam

http://www.searchsikhism.com/hinduism.html

Guru Nanak fordid anyone from making any photo painting of him or doing any play or movie about him which all the other Gurus said, this was common for hindus to do but forbidden in islam by prophet muhammad. During masand period there were statues of devi/devta all of harmander sahib and in baba atal we find painting of devta devi which evidence points to being placed perhaps during misl period. As for the orthodox of amritsanchar this was done by akali nihangs who if we compare to rehat they do bhaang all the time intresting thing is the vedas talk about bhang where in islam the prophet muhammad said anything that causes harm to you is haram- so drugs/alcohol were haram. Even though sufis did bhang aswell but we really have to cross compare sikhi with the greatest sufi in islam which is rumi. All sufis also teach there followers not to make painting of them.

We might see Guru nanak similar to sai baba or bhagat kabir having pushed themselves away from islam but the thing is Guru Nanak spent alot of time with muslims, singing shabads in persian and arabic which most sikhs have not studied into and when we mention it alot of sikhs assume that it means we are superior to muslims because muslims bowed infront of our guru and if they did so it was perhaps because they assumed him to be one of them. We can actually see that according to rehat no gurdwara or sikh should even have a painting of guru sahibs. Additonally the moghuls even having relations with guru sahibs never constructed any huge monument towards them so it means they probably considered them to be low sufis perhaps it may reflect the heretic nature of going out of the scope of Muhammadanism. All we see is akbar aloted the land of amritsar to guru sahib they did respect them perhaps in an attempt to make dawah to them to become muslim.

Edited April 29, 2011 by sarbatdapala