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Mr Sardar

What Is The Aim Of Krishna Consciousness

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How far in ancient times was krishnas message spread across the world, he was known by the greeks as hercules could krishna's religion have been the religion of all of humanity in ancient times?

Edited by sarbatdapala

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Their argument is that hercules is actually 'hari-kula-es' which means king of the hari kula, Krishna or something. Firstly, Hercules is the Roman version of Herakles or Heracles which means blessed by Hera (Greek goddess). So, yeah nah. Doesn't sound convincing. 

Secondly, those two are completely different. These people publish massive articles on this but none of it is true. It's just propaganda that the gullible types that aren't really into ancient literature may fall for. 

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Here is the historical truth of the matter.  An albeit hidden ancient High Priest, Philosopher and religious leader named Apollonius of Tyana was actually pivotal in the hidden connection between East and West.  Knowledge of him is muted in most Western academia, because his character was used in composite to form several illustrious personages... namely the "apostle" Paul of Tarsus... author of many books in the Greek New testament of Christianity. He is also used as a composite for the Jesus figure, and so "rocks the boat" of mainstream Western theology.

Why is this figure of Apollonius of Tyana central to the Eastern-Western philosophical and religious crossroads?  Because Apollonius visited India and "borrowed" much of it's teachings... these in turn became severely distorted into forms of Christianity.

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"No greater cultural loss ever occurred than happened when the Christian mob set fire to the books and manuscripts of the Alexandrian Library, in order to destroy all records of Apollonius of Tyana, so that the world might forever be ignorant of his existence and of his replacement by the previously non-existent and unknown Jesus, which occurred at the Council of Nicea, in the year 325 A.D. But fortunately, a certain book survived - the FORBIDDEN BOOK - of all books in that great library - that was most feared. It was "THE LIFE OF APOLLONIUS OF TYANA", by his biographer, Philostratus." http://www.mountainman.com.au/apollonius_the_nazarene_0.htm

So you see the character of Jesus, pivotal to Western Christianity, was in fact patterned after an actual Western mystic who obtained his learning from Indian spiritual masters and yogis.  From the earliest days of Christianity, when it became a State religion and political power... sought to suppress that Eastern origin... and then turned around and condemned everything not within it's own doctrines as "pagan," "evil" and "spurious."
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"[44.2] He tells us that Apollonius visited the Indians, whom he calls Brahmins, from whom he learnt much of their divine wisdom. He also visited the wise men of Ethiopia, whom he calls Gymni, because they pass all their life naked and never wear clothes even in the most trying weather. But he declares that the wise men of India are far superior to those of Ethiopia, since they are older in point of time and their intellect is purer and keener, owing to their living nearer to the rays of the sun." https://www.livius.org/sources/content/philostratus-life-of-apollonius/a-byzantine-commentary-on-philostratus-life-of-apollonius/
----
"Born into the noble family of Tyana, Apollonius was educated by a Pythagorean philosopher in Tarsus. In his later youth, disgusted by the luxury, idleness and vice of Tarsus, he retired to the nearby village of Aegae, where he spent several years meditating in ascetic isolation. He then set out on what he regarded as his mission to learn, to heal, and to teach, throughout Asia Minor. He traveled to Assyria, Babylonia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Egypt and India, curing the sick and studying with the learned. He almost certainly was influenced by Jain teachers, then known as “Gymnosophists,” and may have been influenced by Buddhists as well. Later, he became an initiate of the Eleusinian Mysteries.

In his travels, he became well known as a man of the loftiest character, a gifted healer and charismatic spiritual leader. He developed a considerable following. Many fantastic legends of his feats of prophesy and miracle-working were recorded after his death, and he came to be regarded as a “divine being.” He is probably one of the models for the syncretistic figure of Christ, many anecdotes in the life story of Apollonius are duplicated in that of Jesus. No writings of Apollonius survive, but his detailed life story was assembled from the records of his friends and associates by the scholar Flavius Philostratus (172 – 250 e.v.) at the command of the emperor Severus." https://sabazius.oto-usa.org/apollonius-tyanaeus/
 

 

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8 hours ago, HarjasKaur said:

Here is the historical truth of the matter.  An albeit hidden ancient High Priest, Philosopher and religious leader named Apollonius of Tyana was actually pivotal in the hidden connection between East and West.  Knowledge of him is muted in most Western academia, because his character was used in composite to form several illustrious personages... namely the "apostle" Paul of Tarsus... author of many books in the Greek New testament of Christianity. He is also used as a composite for the Jesus figure, and so "rocks the boat" of mainstream Western theology.

Why is this figure of Apollonius of Tyana central to the Eastern-Western philosophical and religious crossroads?  Because Apollonius visited India and "borrowed" much of it's teachings... these in turn became severely distorted into forms of Christianity.

So you see the character of Jesus, pivotal to Western Christianity, was in fact patterned after an actual Western mystic who obtained his learning from Indian spiritual masters and yogis.  From the earliest days of Christianity, when it became a State religion and political power... sought to suppress that Eastern origin... and then turned around and condemned everything not within it's own doctrines as "pagan," "evil" and "spurious."
----
"[44.2] He tells us that Apollonius visited the Indians, whom he calls Brahmins, from whom he learnt much of their divine wisdom. He also visited the wise men of Ethiopia, whom he calls Gymni, because they pass all their life naked and never wear clothes even in the most trying weather. But he declares that the wise men of India are far superior to those of Ethiopia, since they are older in point of time and their intellect is purer and keener, owing to their living nearer to the rays of the sun." https://www.livius.org/sources/content/philostratus-life-of-apollonius/a-byzantine-commentary-on-philostratus-life-of-apollonius/
----
"Born into the noble family of Tyana, Apollonius was educated by a Pythagorean philosopher in Tarsus. In his later youth, disgusted by the luxury, idleness and vice of Tarsus, he retired to the nearby village of Aegae, where he spent several years meditating in ascetic isolation. He then set out on what he regarded as his mission to learn, to heal, and to teach, throughout Asia Minor. He traveled to Assyria, Babylonia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Egypt and India, curing the sick and studying with the learned. He almost certainly was influenced by Jain teachers, then known as “Gymnosophists,” and may have been influenced by Buddhists as well. Later, he became an initiate of the Eleusinian Mysteries.

In his travels, he became well known as a man of the loftiest character, a gifted healer and charismatic spiritual leader. He developed a considerable following. Many fantastic legends of his feats of prophesy and miracle-working were recorded after his death, and he came to be regarded as a “divine being.” He is probably one of the models for the syncretistic figure of Christ, many anecdotes in the life story of Apollonius are duplicated in that of Jesus. No writings of Apollonius survive, but his detailed life story was assembled from the records of his friends and associates by the scholar Flavius Philostratus (172 – 250 e.v.) at the command of the emperor Severus." https://sabazius.oto-usa.org/apollonius-tyanaeus/
 

 

how have you been sis? long time since we communicated. 

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9 hours ago, HarjasKaur said:

When your words are neither welcome nor respected, you will no longer speak them.

well everyone has a different way of thinking , but i still respect you, had met yoy in 2009 when i had visited CA...respect you like an elder sis

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images-7.jpg

15 hours ago, jaikaara said:

well everyone has a different way of thinking , but i still respect you, had met you in 2009 when i had visited CA...respect you like an elder sis

What you said is well spoken and wise bhaiji. Thank you. You cannot help but be, for now and for all time, and in dimly conceived past and far distant future... my brother.

In the West, Christ has largely been accepted as symbolic of mankind's savior or guru-like figure who raises mankind back to consciousness of God.  His origin was a misunderstanding of Krishna.  Nonetheless, hidden in Western occult symbolism and numerology, Vedic secrets remain if you want to find them. The purpose of this post was to illustrate the truth of bhaiji jaikaara's comment... "everyone has a different way of thinking."  That's because sargun manifestations of the Divine are part of everything that exists, are interwoven in our history, in odd syncronicities, and even within our own body. We cannot despise "sarguna" and praise "nirguna" alone because... the Absolute Reality encompasses absolutely everything. 33 crore devtas... 33 powers... 3... 1... creation is a supremely elegant interconnectedness. We may seem insignificant... but something within us is co-existentially eternal. We "think" and "perceive" uniquely... but even our differences have core similarities... we are far more akin than not.  The embodiment of sargun manifestations of the Divine was precisely 'unique" in order that different people would have opportunity to "perceive" the One Lord, lover of all mankind, whose soul-brides we really are.  Differences in race, ethnicity, country, religion are really, really not so important to the core of what we all are. It is as if the radiance of God shattered into 33 thousand pieces that all reflect THE ONE.

Quote

Śākalya         : “How many gods are there?”
Yājñavalkya  : “Three hundred and three.” Then he says, “Three thousand and three.”

Śākalya         : “Is this the answer that you give me to my question, how many gods     are there? Three thousand and three; three hundred and three! Have you no other answer to this question?”
Yājñavalkya  : There are thirty-three gods.

Śākalya         : “All right!” (not satisfied with answer) …Tell me again properly; how many gods are there?”
Yājñavalkya   : “Six are there.”

Śākalya         : “How many gods are there. Tell me again. Think properly.”
Yājñavalkya   : “Only three gods are there.”

Śākalya         : “How many gods are there? Tell again.
Yājñavalkya   : “Two gods are there.”

Śākalya         :  “Tell again; how many gods are there?”
Yājñavalkya   :  “One and a half gods”

(Then he was very much upset) 

Śākalya         :  “What is this you say, one and a half gods. Tell again properly; how many gods are there?”
Yājñavalkya  :  “One god is there,”

Śākalya         : “All these numbers that you have mentioned – three thousand and three, three hundred and  three – what are these gods? Give the names of these gods, the deities.”
Yājñavalkya  :   “All these three thousand and all that I mentioned – they are not really gods. They are only   manifestations of the thirty-three. The thirty-three are the principal manifestations, and others are only their glories, radiances, manifestations, magnificences or forces, energies,  powers.”

Śākalya         : “But what are these thirty-three?”
Yājñavalkya   : “The thirty-three gods are eight Vasus, eleven Rudras, twelve Ādityas, then Indra and Prajāpati – these make thirty-three gods.”

Śākalya         : “What are these Vasus which are eight in number?”
Yājñavalkya   : “Fire is one deity; earth is one deity; air is another; the atmosphere is one deity; the sun is one deity; the heaven is one deity; moon is one deity; the stars are one deity. These constitute eight groups”

Śākalya         : “Why do you call them Vasus?”
Yājñavalkya   : “Everything is deposited as it were in these constituent principles. Therefore, they are called Vasus.”

Śākalya         : “Who are the Rudras?”
Yājñavalkya  : “The ten senses and the mind make eleven. These are the Rudras.”
         
Śākalya         : “What are the twelve Ādityas, the suns?”
Yājñavalkya   : “They are twelve forces of the sun, takes away the vitality of people.”

Śākalya         : “Who is Indra? Who is Prajāpati?”
Yājñavalkya   : “The rain cloud can be called Indra. Sacrifice can be called Prajāpati.”

Śākalya         : “What do you mean by rain cloud?”
Yājñavalkya   : “By rain cloud I do not actually mean the cloud, but the lightning which is the embodiment of energy.”

"In the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, chapter 3, Yājñavalkya has said that in reality there are only 33 gods and goddesses...33 koti gods = 8 Vasus + 11 Rudras + 12 Adityas + 2 Heaven and Earth ( 8+ 11 + 12 + 2 = 33)." https://pparihar.com/2014/01/20/330-million-gods-the-vedas-refer-to-not-millions-of-deities-but-33-supreme-deities/

Quote

No number holds more esoteric significance than “33.” The number three is significant in all major religions. There is a Trinity for Christians, and a Triple Goddess for the ancients. The number 33 was important to secret societies and is often concealed within significant literary works...At the Vatican there are 32 archways on each side of the courtyard with a giant obelisk in the middle. The Pope’s cassock has 32 buttons and his head represents the 33rd. The United Nations flag shows the globe divided into 33 sections encircled by olive branches.  The flag also happens to be blue just like the first 3 “blue degrees” of Masonry. 33 is the highest degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry...The first Temple of Solomon stood for 33 years before being pillaged. Jesus was crucified by the Roman government and died for 3 days at age 33...In astrology, the sun officially transitions into a new sign of the zodiac at the 33rd degree (a concept well-known long before Christianity). In the Bible, God corresponds to 1/3 (33.3%) as seen in Revelation 12 (1+2=3), where the great red dragon is sweeping 1/3 of the stars from heaven. The human foot has 33 joints. The human spine has 33 vertebrae. The number of turns in a complete sequence of human DNA equals 33. https://www.dtss.us/blog/everything-changes-at-33-numerology-occult-symbolism/

Quote

“In Spiritual Numerology, ’33’ symbolizes the highest spiritual conscious attainable by the human being.”-Elizabeth van Buren, “The Secret of the Illuminati” (161-2)

 

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2 hours ago, HarjasKaur said:
Quote

No number holds more esoteric significance than “33.” The number three is significant in all major religions. There is a Trinity for Christians, and a Triple Goddess for the ancients. The number 33 was important to secret societies and is often concealed within significant literary works...At the Vatican there are 32 archways on each side of the courtyard with a giant obelisk in the middle. The Pope’s cassock has 32 buttons and his head represents the 33rd. The United Nations flag shows the globe divided into 33 sections encircled by olive branches.  The flag also happens to be blue just like the first 3 “blue degrees” of Masonry. 33 is the highest degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry...The first Temple of Solomon stood for 33 years before being pillaged. Jesus was crucified by the Roman government and died for 3 days at age 33...In astrology, the sun officially transitions into a new sign of the zodiac at the 33rd degree (a concept well-known long before Christianity). In the Bible, God corresponds to 1/3 (33.3%) as seen in Revelation 12 (1+2=3), where the great red dragon is sweeping 1/3 of the stars from heaven. The human foot has 33 joints. The human spine has 33 vertebrae. The number of turns in a complete sequence of human DNA equals 33. https://www.dtss.us/blog/everything-changes-at-33-numerology-occult-symbolism/

Quote

“In Spiritual Numerology, ’33’ symbolizes the highest spiritual conscious attainable by the human being.”-Elizabeth van Buren, “The Secret of the Illuminati” (161-2)

 

In Gurmat, pure spirituality,  what really counts and matters is Ik, means One.

Sree Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj says right from the begining in the Bani:  Ik Oankar Satnam- Gurparsad Jap.

In this one single verse, the whole tons of all holy scriptures, is summarized the essence of spiritualty at its highest peak in simple words, and direct to the point.

What really counts is that One Supreme Universal eternal and changeles Truth, namely Waheguru Akal Purukh.

If we look at numbers like, 3, 33, etc ....we get confused and lost in variety,  but if we look and fous on  One,  only Waheguru and His Nao, we get true freedom from maya and the wheel of 84, thus return and merge in our origin, Waheguru. 

Countless millions of rays emerge in the early hours from the  One Sun, all carrying the same warmth and light, irrespective on where they fall upon, so are the souls who emerge from Him, but due to duality and all mayavee forms including trinities and their spouses or energies, gods and godesses, all are tightly trapped in the endless wheel of 84.

EKAS(WAHEGURU AKAL PURUKH) BIN   SABH DANDH HAE

It is only by following Gurbani, that we get to know, love and hold on His Lotus feet, through Nam bhakti.

As the Bani says: Ik Oankar Satnam- Gurparsad Jap. 

There is only One creator lord Satnam, who is realized not by any other practices, rituals, ceremonies, austerities, pilgrimages, pujas, paaths, prayers, rosaries, offerings,  etc etc  etc..... but by the jap of the parsad given by Guru, Waheguru.

For us as sikhs, only One, Waheguru counts, and the bhakti we offer at His Feet matters, rest is all maya, all fanah, howsoever fascinating it may appear to be.

Nanak Nam jahaz hae, jinee chareeya se utareeya paar.

The teachings of Gurbani,  deal only with praises and  unconditional love for Waheguru  and  His real form of Nam  or Shabad, though it mentions many other things and beings just as complimentary information of His creation, but to give devotion to the only One Waheguru Akal Purukh.

 

Vin Naavai Hor Dhhan Naahee   Hor Bikhiaa Sabh Shhaaraa

Without Nam, there is no other wealth. Everything else is just poison and ashes.


Raag Maajh, Sree Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj

 

Sat Sree Akal.

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Mathematics encompasses all the numbers.  There are patterns of numbers that tell us powerful secrets and mysteries about forces and powers of the universe, knowledge of which is key.  Besides, this section is "other" faiths and philosophies, Hinduism.  So what point does strict Gurmat teaching apply here?  And... who is to say that YOUR interpretation of Gurmat is actually correct? 33 is powerful symbolically, and the ultimate truth is One without a Second... but we live in THIS world of duality and Maya... we do not live in heaven realm or some purely spiritual imagining... the Oneness of God can be discerned in THIS material world only thru the sargun agency of the UNMANIFEST ULTIMATE who we cannot even perceive because it is AGOCHAR.  In mathematics, the equivalent of everything... is nothing, the null void, shunyata.  So, everything and nothing are part of the Oneness.

Quote

ਰਜ ਤਮ ਸਤ ਕਲ ਤੇਰੀ ਛਾਇਆ ॥

Raj Tham Sath Kal Thaeree Shhaaeiaa ||

Your Power is diffused through the three gunas: raajas, taamas and satva.

If 3 were an insignificant number... why is it spoken of in Gurbani?  Or, perhaps there is a teaching there. All is meaningless confusion lost in variety?  What about attending university to study psychology, engineering, medicine, philosophy, economics? What about the significance of 33 Savaiye? 33 sections of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Quote

“Mathematics is the alphabet with which God has written the universe.” -Galileo Galilei

 

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On 2/18/2020 at 11:10 PM, HarjasDevi said:

Q1)Mathematics encompasses all the numbers. 

There are patterns of numbers that tell us powerful secrets and mysteries about forces and powers of the universe, knowledge of which is key.  Besides, this section is "other" faiths and philosophies, Hinduism.  So what point does strict Gurmat teaching apply here? 

A1)Numbers are nothing where spirituality is concerned, for the KARTAR, the Creator, the Lord Waheguru is One, and  it is to this One Truth we have to look for.

 

On 2/18/2020 at 11:10 PM, HarjasDevi said:

Q2)And... who is to say that YOUR interpretation of Gurmat is actually correct? 

33 is powerful symbolically, and the ultimate truth is One without a Second... but we live in THIS world of duality and Maya... we do not live in heaven realm or some purely spiritual imagining... the Oneness of God can be discerned in THIS material world only thru the sargun agency of the UNMANIFEST ULTIMATE who we cannot even perceive because it is AGOCHAR.  In mathematics, the equivalent of everything... is nothing, the null void, shunyata.  So, everything and nothing are part of the Oneness.

A2) It is not a matter of mine or your interpretations  that matters, what matters is, what Guru Jee tells us .

So, what does He say?

He says:  

ਤੀਨਿ ਦੇਵ ਏਕ ਸੰਗਿ ਲਾਇ ॥

Theen Dhaev Eaek Sang Laae ||

Forsake the trinity, and attach yourself to the One God.

Raag Gauri Bhagat Kabir

I think it is more than clear, that Guru Jee refers to the One Supreme Truth as the ultimate reality. Sikhee´s aim and goal is One Waheguru only, not mutiplicity nor variety of deities....

 

 

On 2/18/2020 at 11:10 PM, HarjasDevi said:

3)If 3 were an insignificant number... why is it spoken of in Gurbani?  Or, perhaps there is a teaching there. All is meaningless confusion lost in variety?  What about attending university to study psychology, engineering, medicine, philosophy, economics? What about the significance of 33 Savaiye? 33 sections of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

3A) Sorry to contradict you, but have no option left. For Guru Je´s words are more worthy than your inflated ego.

You like numbers, but let me tell you, Guru Jee right from te begining of Gurbani tells us: IK OANKAR.

Ik is 1 and 1 only, not any trinities, nor 33....nor 333333 if you want.... so stop being arrogant, do not take anything to personal levels such as mine or yours.... here and everyhere what counts is Guru Jee´s wisdom which is utter Truth, all else is Maya.

SSA 

 

 

 

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