Man Convicted Of Murder And Attempted Murders

[dalsingh101]

This is cool! We have a resident nurse in the hoooouuuse!

SA rocks!!

Edited June 15, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Maybe it's a Indian cultural thing then? Here you get plenty of pampered toffs who play rugby for example, so a tough life isn't necessarily linked to physical stature/ability here.

LOL playing rugby , doing martial arts cannot make you martial.Just look at world Pathans best fighters even USA can't tame them ,Naxals best among Indians living in JUngles very ferocious ,just send one of your 6-4" rugby player and he will pee in pants if he sees a 5 feet tall Naxal in jungle.The question is what is making these people Best martial people in world ,it is their hard living condition

Also just look at history India was always a rich place so it get invaded from people which were living harsh conditions,even Mughals which were at one time the best in world became a wlkover in 18th century of India

[dalsingh101]

LOL playing rugby , doing martial arts cannot make you martial.Just look at world Pathans best fighters even USA can't tame them ,Naxals best among Indians living in JUngles very ferocious ,just send one of your 6-4" rugby player and he will pee in pants if he sees a 5 feet tall Naxal in jungle.The question is what is making these people Best martial people in world ,it is their hard living condition

That is bullshit, that section of society produces the bulk of the mid/higher ranked soldiers/commanders of the country from what I understand. Whatever you may say about them (and I say a lot about the marauding bastards) they certainly aren't afraid to war.

Edited June 15, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

That is bullshit, that section of society produces the bulk of the mid/higher ranked soldiers/commanders of the country from what I understand. Whatever you may say about them (and I say a lot about the marauding bastards) they certainly aren't afraid to war.

There is lot difference between saying and doing.May be they are not afraid of war but the question is UK army fight against whom ? where odds are in the their favour 9:1 .Also if they join army they will get proper training

Army always train their youth for all condition

but what about communities like us which don't have army? If you read my post in this subject I already said that if you train urban people or NRI's then they can fight.But the question where we are going to train them,WE don't have country of our own

[dalsingh101]

May be they are not afraid of war but the question is UK army fight against whom ? where odds are in the their favour 9:1 .Also if they join army they will get proper training.

They would just call that commonsense and preparation. War strategies to ensure you put the odds in your favour.

Anyway, I don't know how we got from freshies murdering each other to this topic. If you want to continue it, maybe start a new thread under the yudh vidya sections?

Edited June 15, 2011 by dalsingh101

[Mithar]

There is lot difference between saying and doing.May be they are not afraid of war but the question is UK army fight against whom ? where odds are in the their favour 9:1 .Also if they join army they will get proper training

Army always train their youth for all condition

but what about communities like us which don't have army? If you read my post in this subject I already said that if you train urban people or NRI's then they can fight.But the question where we are going to train them,WE don't have country of our own

One thing that cannot be denied is that Anglo countries do have very good armies. In fact, even other European countries like the French military and Russian military are pretty strong, their soldiers are as tough as hell. In Muslim countries, only Turkey can be considered to have a good military, better then most European militaries. Pakistan's military isn't too bad either. The rest of the Muslim countries have unprofessional armies. But Muslims are good in guerrilla warfare though, Chechens and Pathans being primary examples.

When it comes to guerrilla warfare, the rural people are usually always the backbone of the guerrilla army or militia. It could be because rural folks are mentally tougher, they don't need some special military trainer to make them mentally read for warfare.

[dalsingh101]

When it comes to guerrilla warfare, the rural people are usually always the backbone of the guerrilla army or militia. It could be because rural folks are mentally tougher, they don't need some special military trainer to make them mentally read for warfare.

When life is rigorous and involves daily hard physical work like rural work would entail in undeveloped or semi-developed environments, it stands to reason that people in such contexts develop a robust attitude to towards physical hardships and and an indifference to austerities. However, when the same people stop doing the said work (say due to new technology or cheap labour) and start to live in luxury, would they retain the characteristics that made them tough?

[Mithar]

When life is rigorous and involves daily hard physical work like rural work would entail in undeveloped or semi-developed environments, it stands to reason that people in such contexts develop a robust attitude to towards physical hardships and and an indifference to austerities. However, when the same people stop doing the said work (say due to new technology or cheap labour) and start to live in luxury, would they retain the characteristics that made them tough?

It's not that the Punjabi villager no longer does work. He does do work. I have relatives who leave for the fields early in the morning when it is still dark and they return home in the evening. In general, the rural people are mentally tough, the Bhaya labour and machinery makes their work easier, but farming is still pretty tough/hard work. During the 80s and early 90s, Punjabi farmers had agricultural machinery, and Bhaya labour, yet thousands of young men rose to become Kharkoos.

But ultimately it was the will of Vaheguru that the Sikh movement did not succeed this time. But the blood of Shaheeds cannot just go to waste like this.

[G.Kaur]

Your a real deal desi then. Not those healthy fake wannabes.

Acute My wots its face is heart attacks right?

How about yourself, Suryadev, is your cholesterol too high?

[G.Kaur]

This is cool! We have a resident nurse in the hoooouuuse!

SA rocks!!

Lol I've only been a nurse for 1½ years so I don't have much experience. I haven't killed a patient (yet!) so I guess I'm okay, lol

[kdsingh80]

One thing that cannot be denied is that Anglo countries do have very good armies. In fact, even other European countries like the French military and Russian military are pretty strong, their soldiers are as tough as hell. In Muslim countries, only Turkey can be considered to have a good military, better then most European militaries. Pakistan's military isn't too bad either. The rest of the Muslim countries have unprofessional armies. But Muslims are good in guerrilla warfare though, Chechens and Pathans being primary examples.

When it comes to guerrilla warfare, the rural people are usually always the backbone of the guerrilla army or militia. It could be because rural folks are mentally tougher, they don't need some special military trainer to make them mentally read for warfare.

Well at present we don't know which country has strongest ,bravest army.There were hardly any wars in last 60 years and most of the wars were phoney wars pretty much one sided .Technology has now replaced bravery and techniques of wars.

Anyway which unoragnised army would you call the bravest? Muslim Pathans are still sleepless nights to USA,Indiand and even Pakistani army.Naxals too are giving a good fight CRPF .Both CRPF and Naxals don't know which night is going to their last night as there is such a heavy fighting

[HSD1]

Please define What is forward and Backward for you?The words were created by Europeans to show How Forward they are and how backward others are.If you believe in their defination then please ask sikhs to go and hit saloons because No sikh can be in their defination of forward unless he removes his turban and shaves his beard

Another clueless comment. Backwards is a mud hut. Forwards is a skyscraper. Backwards is a horse and cart. Forwards is a space shuttle or a bullet train. These arent western or european definitions. Japan invented bullet trains and has a space programme. Are they european? Look, the world isnt going to stop so that you can sit there and say india is the best for equality for women and the other nonsense. You've convinced yourself that your values are 'eastern'. Yet you were raised in a country that's culture and law was shaped by Britain for almost 2 centuries. In fact many of your attitudes dont even correspond with how sikhs were before the annexation. So in fact its you who doesnt understand that modernity does not equal shaved and turbanless sikhs. Hindustanis shave and dont wear turbans, yet they are east of punjab?!?! Plenty of sikhs with beards and turbans are borderline pervs too, wearing the 5 Ks doesnt seem to help them.

Atleast I never heard of any famous foreign born Kharkoo who was arrested or died.Even Urban Sikhs hardly joined the movement,the one who joined were after 1984 riots.I don't understand why is it difficult for you to accept that one which is raised in UK,USA or Canada could hardly fight on ground level unless properly trained ,even Urbanites of India cannot fight on ground level as they all are raised with kids gloves.Only hardcore pendu's are fit to fight and that too which had lived a tough life,so as long as these backward people are part of community we can fight unfortunately ,backwards are declining while the so called forward are increasing

I never heard of any indian born kharkoos winning that war, so what's your point? And since when were you a military theorist? We would never have beaten the indians without a modern army. In a modern army the kharkoos would have been privates or corporals at best. As the kharkoos were unwilling to be unified and led by able military commanders, they had to form small isolated groups that were overrun one by one. So much for the superiority of the rural sikh fighting man. The british left india 65 years ago but you still spout the martial race theory junk. What matters is training, tactics, intelligence and information, leadership, organisation, technology and supplies/logistics. You honestly think a bunch of rural idiots can make up for that? Factory workers can fight, teachers, engineers etc can too. To say that we lost the war of the 80s because we didnt have enough kharkoos is rubbish. India has a billion people. We have 20 million. A war of attrition between the kharkoos and their armed forces was only ever going to end one way, it was just a matter of time.

[kdsingh80]

Another clueless comment. Backwards is a mud hut. Forwards is a skyscraper. Backwards is a horse and cart. Forwards is a space shuttle or a bullet train. These arent western or european definitions. Japan invented bullet trains and has a space programme. Are they european?

What clueless? You can think that 7 billion people of world can live in skyscrapers ,they can travel in bullet trains but the reality is only 10-15% of population of world can have these modern luxuries and look at Japanese people from what angle they look like Japanese that were 100 years ago ,they too behave like Europeans.Bullet trains,skyscrapers and all these luxuries require so much resources that it is only a small percentage of world that can enjoy them .Large percentage of people have to live in hut ,they have to drive bullock carts so developed nations can take their resources and build what you are calling forward

Look, the world isnt going to stop so that you can sit there and say india is the best for equality for women and the other nonsense.

I never said India is best for equality for women

In fact many of your attitudes dont even correspond with how sikhs were before the annexation

May be not but I am sure You people have same views as sikhs had before annexation LOL

I never heard of any indian born kharkoos winning that war, so what's your point? And since when were you a military theorist? We would never have beaten the indians without a modern army. In a modern army the kharkoos would have been privates or corporals at best. As the kharkoos were unwilling to be unified and led by able military commanders, they had to form small isolated groups that were overrun one by one. So much for the superiority of the rural sikh fighting man. The british left india 65 years ago but you still spout the martial race theory junk. What matters is training, tactics, intelligence and information, leadership, organisation, technology and supplies/logistics. You honestly think a bunch of rural idiots can make up for that? Factory workers can fight, teachers, engineers etc can too. To say that we lost the war of the 80s because we didnt have enough kharkoos is rubbish. India has a billion people. We have 20 million. A war of attrition between the kharkoos and their armed forces was only ever going to end one way, it was just a matter of time.

What about Kashmir they are still fighting ,they don't have modern army

the only way a country can win war when people stop supporting movement ,Kharkoo movement died because mass support died O/W no army could had killed the movement

[HSD1]

What clueless? You can think that 7 billion people of world can live in skyscrapers ,they can travel in bullet trains but the reality is only 10-15% of population of world can have these modern luxuries and look at Japanese people from what angle they look like Japanese that were 100 years ago ,they too behave like Europeans.Bullet trains,skyscrapers and all these luxuries require so much resources that it is only a small percentage of world that can enjoy them .Large percentage of people have to live in hut ,they have to drive bullock carts so developed nations can take their resources and build what you are calling forward

So now your a professor of human anthropology? The other 80% of the world are held back by shoddy educations and corruption, inadequate social/political systems and militaries/leaders who are unable or unwilling to protect them from external threats. And the fact they cant even be civil to one another without acting like a bunch of crabs in a bucket.

I never said India is best for equality for women

No, but you act like Sikhi as practiced by sikhs today gives women freedom. This is when most sikh women who go to india cant get over how pervy the sikhs over there are.

May be not but I am sure You people have same views as sikhs had before annexation LOL

Sikhs were always relatively well off in peacetime during our Guru's time. Up until 1849 we advanced of our own accord. Life in 1849 was not like 1699. Whether it was city life or rural life. New technologies are discovered that reduce the need for manpower, people move into cities in search of better opportunities etc. Get over it, that's the story of humanity. After 1849 we became whatever the British Indian government wanted to be. In the last 65 years the indian government has tried to mold sikhs into what they want. Think about it.

What about Kashmir they are still fighting ,they don't have modern army

the only way a country can win war when people stop supporting movement ,Kharkoo movement died because mass support died O/W no army could had killed the movement

No they arent. The indian goverment has the place on lockdown, her troops rape and kill at will. Are you telling me the kashmiris are on the cusp of victory? Are the kashmiris going to join forces with the naxals and drive to the gates of delhi!?!?! lol. Hell, we might even see pathan heavy bombers over the skies of Washington D.C!!! Or no, even better, the combined US Navy sunk by a naval taskforce combined of the Pathan Navy and Arab Insurgent Sea Corps!!! Lol. You should really listen to yourself sometimes. American pissing their beds over pathan in mountains or all this shit about martial rural races. Your kind of thinking is why sikhs have been slapped silly in the last 150 years.

Edited June 15, 2011 by HSD 2

[dalsingh101]

Let's all take a deep breathe chill for a second. I know the thread has seriously deviated from the OP but the discussion is still interesting.

I want to focus on this statement.

and After 1849 we became whatever the British Indian government wanted to be. In the last 65 years the indian government has tried to mold sikhs into what they want. Think about it.

I'd like to ask this. If the 'reigns' of Sikh destiny where hypothetically back in our hands, where do people think the driving and dominant forces that exist within our community, would take us? Because right now, I can't see a drop of progressive, forward thinking, intelligent thought for the 21st century amongst any of us. We just don't even seem to have the imagination right now for anything grand or sophisticated. My worse fear is that in the absence of anyone visionary and capable pendus will drive us back to the feudal ages if they were left unrestrained.

[kdsingh80]

So now your a professor of human anthropology? The other 80% of the world are held back by shoddy educations and corruption, inadequate social/political systems and militaries/leaders who are unable or unwilling to protect them from external threats. And the fact they cant even be civil to one another without acting like a bunch of crabs in a bucket.

Where am I saying I am professor ,the fact is Earth has quite limited resources and if you start dividing them equally then most of developed countries will loose lifestyle which they are living

No, but you act like Sikhi as practiced by sikhs today gives women freedom. This is when most sikh women who go to india cant get over how pervy the sikhs over there are.

Compared to other Religions of South Asia Sikh women are way ahead

Sikhs were always relatively well off in peacetime during our Guru's time. Up until 1849 we advanced of our own accord. Like in 1849 was not like 1699. Whether it was city life or rural life. New technologies are discovered that reduce the need for manpower, people move into cities in search of better opportunities etc. Get over it, that's the story of humanity. After 1849 we became whatever the British Indian government wanted to be. In the last 65 years the indian government has tried to mold sikhs into what they want. Think about it.

You are the only person net who believe that Sikh kingdom was some kind of highly industrialised nation

on earth.Apart from few developments I never read from any source how sikh kingdom was industrialised ,perhaps you can point to developments that happened in Sikh kingdom comparing them what was happening in Europe at that time.Yes Sikhs were prosperous but main reason was Punjab is the world's most fertile god gifted earth

No they arent. The indian goverment has the place on lockdown, her troops rape and kill at will. Are you telling me the kashmiris are on the cusp of victory? Are the kashmiris going to join forces with the naxals and drive to the gates of delhi!?!?! lol. Hell, we might even see pathan heavy bombers over the skies of Washington D.C!!! Or no, even better, the combined US Navy sunk by a naval taskforce combined of the Pathan Navy and Arab Insurgent Sea Corps!!! Lol. You should really listen to yourself sometimes. American pissing their beds over pathan in mountains or all this shit about martial rural races. Your kind of thinking is why sikhs have been slapped silly in the last 150 years.

Great Now I knew that it was me who is responsible for downfall of sikhs in past 150 years haha.

As far Kashmiri's are concerned they are still fighting ,perhaps in 1720 some muslims had also said that how we are slaughtering Sikhs ,but what happened

in 60 years they lost from the same Sikhs ,the reason was never say die attitude.It is this attitude that can defeat some of world's most powerful armies,Vietnam kicking out Americans ,Afghanis kicking out soviets

[HSD1]

I'd like to ask this. If the 'reigns' of Sikh destiny where hypothetically back in our hands, where do people think the driving and dominant forces that exist within our community, would take us? Because right now, I can't see a drop of progressive, forward thinking, intelligent thought for the 21st century amongst any of us. We just don't even seem to have the imagination right now for anything grand or sophisticated. My worse fear is that in the absence of anyone visionary and capable pendus will drive us back to the feudal ages if they were left unrestrained.

The problem with what you have said is the word I've put in bold and italics. You're looking at it in the wrong direction. We will never have the 'reins of destiny' back in our hands as long as we are unsophisticated or lack the imagination to inject some grandeur into what we want to achieve.

So in answer to your question, if we were given self determination because of, say the rest of the world fell off a cliff, then yes it wouldnt be long until we ruled ourselves like a gurudwara. Of course some sikhs would build a better system, but not everyone would buy into it.

Finally, you say 'I can't see a drop of progressive, forward thinking, intelligent thought for the 21st century amongst any of us' - speak for yourself. I'm offended.

[dalsingh101]

you say 'I can't see a drop of progressive, forward thinking, intelligent thought for the 21st century amongst any of us' - speak for yourself. I'm offended.

I'm talking as in some perceivable movement with motion, support and traction within the panth, not one or two individuals with no sway on matters. None of the Khalistanis even seem to have a realistic clue about social dynamics and nation building! We truly are rudderless as a community right now.

[HSD1]

Where am I saying I am professor ,the fact is Earth has quite limited resources and if you start dividing them equally then most of developed countries will loose lifestyle which they are living

Professor of Economics now too!? My my.

Compared to other Religions of South Asia Sikh women are way ahead

Ahead of what?

You are the only person net who believe that Sikh kingdom was some kind of highly industrialised nation

on earth.Apart from few developments I never read from any source how sikh kingdom was industrialised ,perhaps you can point to developments that happened in Sikh kingdom comparing them what was happening in Europe at that time.Yes Sikhs were prosperous but main reason was Punjab is the world's most fertile god gifted earth

Maybe you should go back to that Ravidassi thread were I had to hammer this into you.

Have a look at this video:

I'll explain it again. Sikhs had the most modern and illustrious armed forces of the first half of the 19th century. We were considered the 'Prussians of India'. Now a modern army doesnt fall out of the sky. It needs an industry to support it. To make cannons, to make dyes for uniforms, to make guns, to make gunpowder explosives and then all the other military paraphernalia they need. Europe at the same time wasnt any more advanced. It wasnt until after the 1850s that railways became the norm in industrialised nations, and steam engines became common in ships. If the sikh state had survived into the late 19th century there is no reason to believe that they wouldnt have built their own railways.

Great Now I knew that it was me who is responsible for downfall of sikhs in past 150 years haha.

As far Kashmiri's are concerned they are still fighting ,perhaps in 1720 some muslims had also said that how we are slaughtering Sikhs ,but what happened

in 60 years they lost from the same Sikhs ,the reason was never say die attitude.It is this attitude that can defeat some of world's most powerful armies,Vietnam kicking out Americans ,Afghanis kicking out soviets

We broke the Mughal supply lines to the rest of the muslim world. Simple as that. As for Vietnam, all that Chinese and Warsaw Pact equipment came in handy. As for Afghanistan, all the weaponry that the CIA gave to them came from Israel, who in turn had captured it off the arabs, who in turn had bought them off the soviets. Attitude is bollocks. Hitler and his cronies still thought they could win the Second World War even when Russian troops were entering Berlin. The native americans also said 'never say die'. You know what happened? They died.

[HSD1]

I'm talking as in some perceivable movement with motion, support and traction within the panth, not one or two individuals with no sway on matters. None of the Khalistanis even seem to have a realistic clue about social dynamics and nation building! We truly are rudderless as a community right now.

Well no movement has ever worked when the majority of its members were thickos. The only time a decent movement will rise amongst sikhs is when they are on the same page and see things in a way that makes up for our lack of numbers.

[kdsingh80]

I'll explain it again. Sikhs had the most modern and illustrious armed forces of the first half of the 19th century. We were considered the 'Prussians of India'. Now a modern army doesnt fall out of the sky. It needs an industry to support it. To make cannons, to make dyes for uniforms, to make guns, to make gunpowder explosives and then all the other military paraphernalia they need. Europe at the same time wasnt any more advanced. It wasnt until after the 1850s that railways became the norm in industrialised nations, and steam engines became common in ships. If the sikh state had survived into the late 19th century there is no reason to believe that they wouldnt have built their own railways.

Provide some link in which there is some written text from some unbiased sources.You know I have read and participated in many threads on sikhs and non sikh sites ,but I have never ever seen a sikh saying That sikhs were most modern and advanced army,may be you have some hidden texts which I don't know

We broke the Mughal supply lines to the rest of the muslim world. Simple as that

Mughals were already very weak by 1720 I don't know from where are you coming from these wild theories ,I never read in any book,forum ,site about this.Perhaps you really have some rare and hidden text whixh you don't want to show to world

Hitler and his cronies still thought they could win the Second World War even when Russian troops were entering Berlin

Hitler from a brilliant ruler became insane and lost his all thinking capabilities

[dalsingh101]

That cannon vid was a good find.

Well no movement has ever worked when the majority of its members were thickos. The only time a decent movement will rise amongst sikhs is when they are on the same page and see things in a way that makes up for our lack of numbers.

Okay so nothing is going to happen for at least 3 generations then.

Edited June 15, 2011 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

Provide some link in which there is some written text from some unbiased sources.You know I have read and participated in many threads on sikhs and non sikh sites ,but I have never ever seen a sikh saying That sikhs were most modern and advanced army,may be you have some hidden texts which I don't know

Didnt you watch the video? It is clear your grasp of history is basic. Do you know alot about industrialisation in early 19th century Europe? Obviously not. Do you know anything about 19th century warfare? Obviously not. There are hundreds of sources from the Anglo Sikh wars from British officers talking about the how well drilled the Sikh army was and how effective its artillery was. Then there was the trick the Aien Regiment pulled at the Battle of Aliwal to escape an attack by thousands of British cavalrymen. You dont know what your on about so it's wonder why you bother posting. The onus is on you to educate yourself, not expect me to carry around everything I've read in the last 2 decades to help overcome other's ignorance.

Mughals were already very weak by 1720 I don't know from where are you coming from these wild theories ,I never read in any book,forum ,site about this.Perhaps you really have some rare and hidden text whixh you don't want to show to world

Where do you think the mughals got all their clerics and mercenaries from? The muslim world. And in order to get to Delhi where did they have to go through? Sikh Punjab. Figure the rest out for yourself.

If you're on about our wars with the afghans, then they knew it was unsustainable, just like american intervention in today's afghanistan is unsustainable.

Hitler from a brilliant ruler became insane and lost his all thinking capabilities

More ignorance on your part. Over a million russians wanted to join Hitler to fight Stalin but Hitler refused. Many real historians credit a large part of Hitler's quick demise to the way in which he ruled the territories he conquered.

Edited June 15, 2011 by HSD 2

[HSD1]

That cannon vid was a good find.

Unfortunately most of it was lost on KDS. KDS watch the video again. Look at how the guy shows how Sikh cannons with small calibres were capable of firing at ranges longer than British cannons two or three times their size. The metal and casting was also so good that the sikhs could load double shot. This is were you put two cannonballs or canisters in the cannon to fire. European cannons couldnt do this because the more ammunition you put into their cannons, the shorter the distance it could be fired as the same amount of gunpowder had to force two rounds out of the barrel instead of one(therefore it was only good at close ranges). If you wanted the extra ammunition to fly further you had to put in more gunpowder. But when european tried this, the extra gunpowder blew up the gun barrels. So european artillery troops only fired one round at target at long distances. Sikh engineers figured a way around this problem, allowing them to fire more rounds over longer distances giving the British the impression we were using large siege cannons when in fact it was small field pieces giving this effect. By the end of the Anglo Sikh wars the British had to bring in 18/24/32 pounders to counter our 6 and 12 pounders. If that isnt a sign of technological superiority on our part I dont know what is.

Edited June 15, 2011 by HSD 2

[HSD1]

Okay so nothing is going to happen for at least 3 generations then.

Why 3 generations? The turn of the 22nd century?!