Man Convicted Of Murder And Attempted Murders

[HSD1]

This is what needs to be worked on now. Let's be outright at the gate, no one is about to invest in a Sikh 'Braveheart' and even if someone hypothetically did hordes of our people wouldn't even bother watching it. As for Sikh TV, watch the numerous channels we have already to get an idea of where we are at.

The truth is that our community wouldnt even understand it if we gave it to them. Hell, I even thought we were all on the same page until I had to explain all this.

There are two options for visual media. Either develop the sikh channels and associated companies/studios to bigger and better things or insert ourselves in other people's media structures. The former is troublesome because lets face it we dont know who runs half these sikh channels, accusations are made all the time about donations and mistreating interns etc that it would be difficult to change them unless the viewers somehow made it clear that they wanted something. How they could do this I dont know. Another problem is the size of the sikh population. Writing books/comics/films/tv programmes etc will be a waste of time if we shed money and resources and no one watches it. We could create false economies. Each Gurudwara (in an ideal world) could build a small library instead of a party hall. They could buy a sizeable amount of copies of books that are reflecting a growing Sikh self-awareness. The problem with this though is that we are buying a lot of books but much of the money will go to the publishing company. Therefore it would be best for sikhs to have their own publishing company that could give sikh authors a voice and fit in with the charity business model of Gurudwaras. But all that can only be achieved if we change/kick out the present fools in Gurudwara committies, something that is easier said than done. Also it wouldnt be hard to set up some kind of projector in most Gurudwaras to show any films or programmes made. But the cost of these companies to make that stuff would need some very influential and rich backing from well off apne or a few Gurudwaras to bankroll that scheme. Either way the people involved would have to be mature and not fight each other over creative differences or act like crabs in a bucket.

The other thing I mentioned, slotting into other people's media systems, would only be achievable if the people involved has some real talent. People like Gurinder Chadha or whatever her name is, along with the bint who wrote 'Bezhti' arent really up to calibre. In Japan, in the 40s and 50s, much of their public wanted low brow stuff. Many werent keen on Akira Kurosawa but when his films did well amongst critics abroad, his own people quickly changed their tune. What I'm trying to say is that truly high brow, intellectual, well thought scripts with great direction make films that can be appreciated by anyone. Hell, its not even hard to write a decent script. Its just finding someone willing to turn it into something for the screen and then getting it noticed.

I've typed all this but I've forgotten some points I was going to make so I'll stop. Failing the above, we could always just phone Mel Gibson and tell him he can kill english people in a movie about the Battle of Mudki, starring as an american mercenary. Who knows? lol.

Problem with Sikh stuff is its limited appeal (even amongst Sikhs!).

It depends how its done. Amarpal Singh Sidhu's book showed real class and thorough intellectualism in the way it was put together and written. In that way it was good for sikhs but also allowed it to be accepted outside our community as it wasnt niche or pandering. That notion needs to be applied to all other attempts, but not in a way that reflects our 21st century role in a champagne socialist's wet dream, something which many sikhs like pandering too.

Whatever does get tried needs to be multipronged though. Are we years away from that?

God knows. Get writing man, get writing!!! lol

Look at where we are at right now......

I noticed most of what we've got has got that strange Indian 'goofy' quality to it? But that is me talking from a degree of western enculturisation.

I quite liked the sweeping camera and the bright colours. It reflects a style that is neither western-Disney nor oriental-Anime, something different and unique, the way Sikh/Punjabi art should be. Hang on, the animations remind me of those flash based internet games. How did they make this? I hope it wasnt using internet style video games in mind..............

[Xylitol]

the animation reminds me of cartoons in the 80's and early 90's, only with brighter colours.

graphic novels could be made to be quite sophisticated, and have appeal across a wide age range and don't require as large a budget as a tv show or movie. with the critical acclaim of watchmen, a well written novel could really do well, and perhaps even appeal across cultures. although it does happen to be a very crowded market.

[G.Kaur]

Thank you for taking time out of your busy life to fill the role of my oh so non-existant conscience.

Could you tell me what you would have said if you was going to be rude and personal on a discussion forum?

[dalsingh101]

the animation reminds me of cartoons in the 80's and early 90's, only with brighter colours.

graphic novels could be made to be quite sophisticated, and have appeal across a wide age range and don't require as large a budget as a tv show or movie. with the critical acclaim of watchmen, a well written novel could really do well, and perhaps even appeal across cultures. although it does happen to be a very crowded market.

I love graphic novels.

One of my favorites is The Walking Dead series. I noticed they've made it into a tv series recently (which I haven't seen).

Check out this 'motion comic' which uses the images of the original publication:

[SURYADEV]

man convicted of murder = comics and animation??????

I must have got lost somewhere.

[G.Kaur]

man convicted of murder = comics and animation??????

I must have got lost somewhere.

Ssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[dalsingh101]

Sometimes it's good to let convos develop as they naturally do.

There is a relating thread through all this. Those freshies came here for opportunities and a perceived better life in the UK.

Essentially people back home are dense when it comes to grasping the reality of the big bad world.

A large measure of this is the conservative nature of Sikh media which itself generally helps keep our people as simpletons looking outwards for a better existence.

A part of the solution is the development of modern, engaging media streams which educate apnay about realities of this world. A modern Sikh media which would also serve as a unifying tool amongst our disparate people. This could also play a part in helping to create a Sikh economy that itself could generate employment and opportunity. If some technological things were kept in India, they could be kept cheap. We are seeing a move eastwards already with comic art for instance.

So, believe it or not, all these issues are related. You have to look carefully for the links.

Edited June 18, 2011 by dalsingh101

[SURYADEV]

Essentially people back home are dense when it comes to grasping the reality of the big bad world.

A large measure of this is the conservative nature of Sikh media which itself generally helps keep our people as simpletons looking outwards for a better existence.

A part of the solution is the development of modern, engaging media streams which educate apnay about realities of this world. A modern Sikh media which would also serve as a unifying tool amongst our disparate people. This could also play a part in helping to create a Sikh economy that itself could generate employment and opportunity. If some technological things were kept in India, they could be kept cheap. We are seeing a move eastwards already with comic art for instance.

Interesting that we in the west consider Panjbai 'simpletons'. yet they ,back home think that we are simple. How many times when visiting India as kids have you guys heard your relatives say that Eh bholla he or Bhahar'le lok sidhe ya ? I thought it was a compliment as a kid as in that I was sensible but now I think its they who were trying to state their own street-wise mental superiority.

But now the facts speak for itself.

[dalsingh101]

Interesting that we in the west consider Panjbai 'simpletons'. yet they ,back home think that we are simple. How many times when visiting India as kids have you guys heard your relatives say that Eh bholla he or Bhahar'le lok sidhe ya ? I thought it was a compliment as a kid as in that I was sensible but now I think its they who were trying to state their own street-wise mental superiority.

But now the facts speak for itself.

No one would dispute the fact that desis usually have a much more active and heightened scam mentality and ruthlessness. They think we are idiots because we mostly don't.

That petty mentality might be useful on individual levels but on a community level it is what prevents apnay making big, coordinated moves.

Edited June 18, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Interesting that we in the west consider Panjbai 'simpletons'. yet they ,back home think that we are simple. How many times when visiting India as kids have you guys heard your relatives say that Eh bholla he or Bhahar'le lok sidhe ya ? I thought it was a compliment as a kid as in that I was sensible but now I think its they who were trying to state their own street-wise mental superiority.

But now the facts speak for itself.

May be people in consider you simple because its easy for anybody to cheat you because you are unaware of Indian chalakiyaan just like Many Indians are unaware what is happening in World

[G.Kaur]

Interesting that we in the west consider Panjbai 'simpletons'. yet they ,back home think that we are simple. How many times when visiting India as kids have you guys heard your relatives say that Eh bholla he or Bhahar'le lok sidhe ya ? I thought it was a compliment as a kid as in that I was sensible but now I think its they who were trying to state their own street-wise mental superiority.

But now the facts speak for itself.

I think I was pretty thick and naive when I was a kid and visiting Punjab, because all the chalak kids always cheated me. Later on in life I learned about their chalak-ness.

[laalsingh]

That petty mentality might be useful on individual levels but on a community level it is what prevents apnay making big, coordinated moves.

YES

[G.Kaur]

Well, that's what's happened to Punjab under continual Jatt 'leadership' so go cry to your own people instead of blaming everyone else in the world like a child. Besides, what makes you so sure all of the freshies are peasants anyway? Maybe they are, I wouldn't know. It's probably the first question a fhudu like yourself asks someone when you meet them.

Strange how on one hand we've had constant 'giving it the big un' with never ending idiotic songs boasting about how great it is to be a son of a farmer whilst on the other you have people (like yourself and Babbu Maan) lamenting, bemoaning and crying about it? Talk about confused.

You're PR stuff is boring by the way. Go back home and help your people. I know lots of long standing diasporic based farmers have land and wealth back home. Do you actually help your beloved peeps by anything more than typing up apologist crap for everything they do on the net?

Who's acting like a child here, Dal? Calling someone a fh*** and other names is what we did when we were kids and teenagers, let's try to act like adults.

To me it seems like you have no empathy for other people let alone Punjabis. When you have never been in the situation (and probably never will be) most Punjabis in Punjab are in, how on earth can you say things like "why do pendus not do their homework before they go abroad" blah blah blah. You sound like you're some white guy. If you were a white guy and saying all these things, I'd say okay but since you're not you shouldn't say people should do this and that, because if you were in the same situation you wouldn't do all the things you mention. Are you in total denial of your own identity and background? I've asked you before and going to ask again since since you didn's answer my question last time, why did your parents come to the UK, why didn't they stay in Punjab? Didn't they want a better life abroad just like everyone else? Why do you think you are better than immigrants from Punjab who want to go to the UK?

It's a fact that we cannot predict what we will do in our future, or what we would do in a situation we have never been in. You're not living in Punjab, so I'm asking you again, how can you say you would do your homework before going to Europe?

It's like when people make fun of poor people in Asia and Africa and say they look like bandars when they've been starving for days and finally get some food (rice or other food from the UN) and they go totally crazy in the queue because they want food for themselves and their families. People who haven't been starving for more than an hour, how dare they make fun of people in those situations in refugee camps in third world countries!

I'd suggest you go to India or another third world country and stay there for 6-12 months, go live in the slum areas in India where's there's no clean water or electricity, go to Africa and live with a poor farmer who only get food every second day or go to Punjab and live on the streets with other homeless people or go begging on the streets like a lot of children do.

Dal, when you know nothing about what's going on in Punjab and why people want to go abroad, I don't understand why you're saying all these things because you've never been in their shoes. Go to Africa or India and stay there for a year and then come back and tell us about your experiences. Don't just sit there like a spoiled kid in the UK thinking you are better than everyone else, because there's no difference between you and and those immigrants from India who lives in the UK.

Edited June 21, 2011 by G.Kaur

[dalsingh101]

What do you know about my empathy G Kaur?

Maybe it isn't the girly type for sure, but it's there.

Other than that there is a time for tough talk and yes, I can be highly irreverent with my language. I find it much better than stuffy, repressed talked. Maybe you are just being too sensitive and apologist for our own people's shortcomings?

A time does comes when enough is enough and pussy footing around the issue serves no good purpose. It isn't wrong to try and force a message across in a more abrupt manner when trying it gently has so obviously failed.

My family came here because they had skills that were needed and asked for. So it's never been a case of jumping out blindly.

Plus being a girl it's like you can't ever debate things with a degree of detachment and have to personalise every damn last thing said.

In the end all that I am saying stems from a desire to see our people do better and a sense of disappointment at the absolute lack of strategic thinking that characterises our pendu brethren. It's not some manifestation of ego that gets pleasure at deriding people unfairly, it's a desire to see improvement and progression that our people seem blissfully unaware of.

By the way did you notice how the Japanese didn't act like a bunch of wild animals when they had their recent crisis and had to queue up for food? So it is possible for people to not act like crazed animals under such circumstances.

Take your accusations and stuff them. Just because my position may fly over your head doesn't mean you can accuse me of all the crap in your last post. I'm no spoiled kid, I grew up in what was a very poor, violent area of London back in the day, you don't have to be a pendu to have problems. Your stereotype of the vichara pendu is bullshit too. I have cousins who live extremely comfortable lives in pends back home compared to many people here.

Your problem is that you don't know the point at which we should uncompromisingly strive for better standards in our quom without excusing every last dumb thing our people do.

Edited June 21, 2011 by dalsingh101

[G.Kaur]

I just told you to try to be in another man's shoes and when you have then come and talk. It's nothing personal to you, if there were other members saying what you do/did I'd tell them to do the same.

[dalsingh101]

I just told you to try to be in another man's shoes and when you have then come and talk. It's nothing personal to you, if there were other members saying what you do/did I'd tell them to do the same.

I've worked with pendus here doing the very jobs they are in the past. I know exactly what they are like and how they live. I'm not in any bubble here. I'm not some rich spoilt vlaathi bloke.

You need to realise, that it's not a sob story for all of them, a lot of the ones who manage to get over here these days are from well to do families with connections, the same type of idiots who act obnoxious to those they deem beneath them back home due to caste or finances.

You need to realise that Panjabi men often don't act like they really are infront the women and you're just bringing maternal soft instincts to the situation when it's the last thing needed. People like you might think that all the backwardness amongst our lot is excusable for x, y z factor. I don't.

There is no excuse to murder our daughters, I couldn't give a toss about excuses of dowry, honour, social status, looking after aged parents etc. etc.

You might think it is okay to absolve the community back home of any responsibility to develop and create a robust economy and positive mindset that helps Panjab progress - I don't.

There is no option other than the long game of creating a strong vibrant Sikh economy, that goes beyond farming in East Panjab. It's the failure to do this that has pendus running over here at any opportunity.

Our problem isn't lack of ambition or ability. It's one of a lack of imagination and will to build our own nation (as in a society that meets our needs not necessarily a Khalistan). Until we do, we'll probably always be trying to run away from our heartland to some perceived relative utopia. This is perceived as the easy option.

Edited June 21, 2011 by dalsingh101

[G.Kaur]

Yes Dal, you know everything and the rest of us know nothing.

[dalsingh101]

Yes Dal, you know everything and the rest of us know nothing.

No, I just take a much harder line on this particular matter than you. Ethnic men in general have become lazy and instead of thinking of and implementing strategies to uplift themselves and their own society with a degree of independence (as much as is possible in a globalised world), they want ready made solutions dished out by the west. This all seems to be lost on you.

Our people obviously have the drive and ambition to do things, they just need to overcome their nasty petty thinking and intellectual laziness to do big things as a community now. A complete overhaul is needed in our community. You just don't want to face up to that and make up x, y, z excuse for the idiocy that passes off as acceptable behaviour amongst our lot.

You don't seem to have critical reflection in your tool bag?

Edited June 21, 2011 by dalsingh101

[G.Kaur]

I do. There are a lot of problems in India and Punjab, but unlike you, I'm trying to understand other people who are less fortune as me.

[kdsingh80]

I do. There are a lot of problems in India and Punjab, but unlike you, I'm trying to understand other people who are less fortune as me.

You have written some of excellent posts,anyway it is the nature of world to criticise the less fortunate

[dalsingh101]

I do. There are a lot of problems in India and Punjab, but unlike you, I'm trying to understand other people who are less fortune as me.

Well maybe you need to refocus. The people who are the real unfortunates ones in Panjab/India aren't the ones who can afford to come to the west. Those poor people don't have a chance.

And I fully understand why people want to come here. That doesn't detract from the fact that failing to create our own economy and avenues for progression is a collective oversight on the part of the community.

Given how Panjab likes to laud itself as the 'richest' state in India you would have thought it had more advantages than most other states. It's poor leadership and vision that is killing us out there.

Edited June 21, 2011 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

You have written some of excellent posts,anyway it is the nature of world to criticise the less fortunate

Kds you really don't contribute much of value these days. What you fail to grasp is that all of us in the panth are being criticised here.

No one is going to solve our communities problems for us. Instead of wallowing in self pity we need inspiring leaders to give us new direction because the usual guys aren't doing s**t to take us to a better place corporately.

Whatever the solutions for the problems of Panjab are, they certainly don't include a mass exodus to the west, especially when much of the western economy seems to be teetering on the edge of some catastrophe itself.

Otherwise we will get more people sleeping in streets and graveyards like in the OP.

[kdsingh80]

Well maybe you need to refocus. The people who are the real unfortunates ones in Panjab/India aren't the ones who can afford to come to the west. Those poor people don't have a chance.

Really

UP, Bihar, Bengal new hot destinations for foreign remittances

http://www.ibef.org/artdisplay.aspx?tdy=1&cat_id=60&art_id=28362

[dalsingh101]

You know what else I notice about apnay?

They completely ignore the concept of diversification when it comes to economy. So you just have pockets of people doing the same thing who never think too much about exploring or developing new areas.

Edited June 21, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

No one is going to solve our communities problems for us. Instead of wallowing in self pity we need inspiring leaders to give us new direction because the usual guys aren't doing s**t to take us to a better place corporately.

And from where these leaders are going to come from ?

Rural/Urban India or NRI's.Also I want to show you something on this topic of leader

-- -----------------------------------------------------

While I am writing down that thought, I recall Mr. Moona saying something similar. He said “In days of Monarchy, it was said ‘yatha raja, thatha praja’ (Like king, like citizen). But in a a democracy, it is always ‘yatha praja, thatha raja’ (vice versa). If people are responsible, the Government will be.”

http://www.ijanaagraha.org/community/yatha-praja-thatha-raaja-0

--------------------------------------------------------

So in a Democracy we can't expect leaders different from general public.If any person who will say that Just follow Gurmat,live a simple lifestyle etc then people are not going to listen to him ,people will elect leaders whose thinking match with their even if the person is big lier .

Whatever the solutions for the problems of Panjab are, they certainly don't include a mass exodus to the west, especially when much of the western economy seems to be teetering on the edge of some catastrophe itself.

I don't think any Sikh like to hear that Sikhs are leaving Punjab,but what is the solution ? The desire of Indians in which Punbabi's are no.1 to live lifestyle at par like the Western one is too much.They are ready to sacrifice anything for this .The generation of freshies you talk have grown up seeing Rich Nri's so its obvious that there thinking is moulded that Only way to earn big amount of money is to go to Outside India.

Anyway could you please tell me How much an average Freshie is able to send the amount back home ?

Edited June 22, 2011 by kdsingh80