namdhari55 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Sangat this question always puzzles me that most udasi nirmal and sevapanthies don't take amrit. I thought that when Guru Gobind Singh Ji said we have to take amrit, He meant it for everyone. This question always brothers me because that means some sikhs don't have to take amrit to become sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 by taking amrit u r a sampooran khalsa, sikhi has many aspects 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Please search the forum on this topic, you will find your answers...they do take amrit...sometimes they go straight to naam amrit and don't go through sanaskar/physical intiation of amrit. Off course if you just scratch the surface..amrit is only one which is Naam in true essence..but for understanding purposes. In sikh theology based on gurbani, gurmat..mahapursh have broken down amrit into three forms/layers- Sanaskar Amrit, Naam Amrit, Bhram-gyan Amrit..you can read more on these three forms of amrit on the forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 What is the view on the four samprdays in naamdhari darbar? do they recognize that Guru Gobind Singh created them or are they later inventions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osingh1 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) O singho! Why have you made things so complicated! Why are Udasis, Sevepanthi and Nirmale exempt from 'physical' initiation? Why have they got the right to bypass kakars? If nirmale choose not to wear kirpan, why can't an ordinary amritdhari take off his kirpan. If nirmale can do it, why can't normal amritdhari Gursikh's. What makes nirmale so special? This so called sanatan sikhi thinking is false. In reality, no Gursikh is EXEMPT from wearing kakars. Reading on this forum, damdami taksal has roots in nirmale. Yet look at how strict Sant Gurbachan Singh was in terms of Kakars. Prominent Gurskihs like Sant Gurbachan Singh, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh and Akali Kaur Singh always carried full size kirpan when going out. Taksal Gursikhs always keep keski on their head. If Taksal has roots in nirmale then why are they so stict in their maryada, there must be a reason. Sant Gurbachan Singh kept 5 kakars untils his last breaths on this earth, just like Sant Kartar Singh ji and Sant Jarnail Singh ji. Look Baba Mohan Singh Bhindrawale, they are 90+ years old but still keep rehit to the max.(Vaah! Vaah!) Alas! Im sure my fellow brothers will argue that Guru Gobind Singh created seperate sect, seperate initiation with seperate maryada for nirmale. I don't want to argue. We each have our own vichaars. In the end I guess you just have to read history, read about jeevan of Gursikhs and then just follow your heart. It seems no religion has been spared from infighting between sects ie shia and sunni, protestant christian etc. Its unfortunate that Sikh panth has also fallen prey to this. However there are postives! Just look at rehat maryada of AKJ, SGPC and Damdami Taksal. They are almost identical save for minor issues. Im sure maryada of nirmale is also very similar. Just look at Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale, he always wears five kakars. I have great respect for nirmale and their contribution to sikh panth ie writing books on itihaas, steeks of gurbani etc However I strongly disagree that you can get Gurmat Naam from Guru Sahib, yet get free pass when it comes to kakars. In my opinion that Gursikh that keeps discipline in wearing kakars will get more fruit from abhiyaas of naam and gurbani, then similar Sikh who doesn't wear kakars. In my humble opinion, if you want to become a bhagat of Jagat Guru, Satguru Nanak Dev Ji, if you want to become the son of dasmesh pita Guru Gobind Singh ji. Then get amrit from panj piare in presence of sahib sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Simple! Waheguru Ji Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Edited June 21, 2011 by osingh1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 welcome to the forum osingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 osingh saab sahi keh rahe han, behes karan da koi faayda nai 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 A correction. Nirmalas are expected to go through amrit sanskar. They have been 'Singhs' since their inception. However they don't keep all panj kakkar, only kesh is vital. Sevapanthis nowadays are mostly amritdhari, although not in the past. Udasis never were nor were the Sevapanthis up until the 20th Century. Why? Because they were sadhus who pre-existed the Khalsa Panth and by decree of Guru Maharaj were not expected to uphold the tenets of the shastrdhari tejasvi kshatriya Khalsa Panth. Nirmale are part of the Khalsa Panth but historically were focused on brahamchari, learning and propagating Gurmat rather than fighting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Did'n the Nihangs also pre-exede the Khalsa Panth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 interesting thread..... Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually split the Panth into four? Did he actually say that there is a trinity of the Guru, Ad Guru Granth, Dasam Granth and Sarbhloh Granth... so many questions, about "Snatan Sikhi" and what some folks nowadays call "mainstream" Sikhism (or some naughty people call British created Sikhism)... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Did'n the Nihangs also pre-exede the Khalsa Panth? Of course they did. Come on Amardeep, get with it dude 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 interesting thread..... Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually split the Panth into four? Did he actually say that there is a trinity of the Guru, Ad Guru Granth, Dasam Granth and Sarbhloh Granth... so many questions, about "Snatan Sikhi" and what some folks nowadays call "mainstream" Sikhism (or some naughty people call British created Sikhism)... i think, the splitting wasnt something designed, it happened as the panth progressed, as times changed new sampardays emerged depending on who had come into contact with which philosophy. the udasin and nirmala have a lot of shaivite influences probably, see its like gradients, some colors merge with others. if we take the sgpc, the way it emerged it is committee based philosphy, at times functions somewhat like a ulema, although that hold is not equivalent to the ulema. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namdhari55 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) A correction. Nirmalas are expected to go through amrit sanskar. They have been 'Singhs' since their inception. However they don't keep all panj kakkar, only kesh is vital. why is only kesh vital not the other kakkars? What gaves them the special right. Guru Gobind Sing Ji took Amrit, why won't they, are they above Sikhi that they can make there owns rules. Guru Ji said "Rehat bina na Sikh akava." Baba Deep Singh Ji and onther Gursiks did alot of parchar and they were baptised, because some sikh groups claim since they do parchar they shouldn't have to take amrit. Sevapanthis nowadays are mostly amritdhari, although not in the past. YES!!! Udasis never were nor were the Sevapanthis up until the 20th Century. Why? Because they were sadhus who pre-existed the Khalsa Panth and by decree of Guru Maharaj were not expected to uphold the tenets of the shastrdhari tejasvi kshatriya Khalsa Panth. 1. Which decree did Guru Ji give that they shouldn't join Khalsa Panth. 2. If they are not part of Khalsa Panth which Panth are they in? 3. Isn't it the Hukam of every Sikh to follow Guru's Hukam and He said everyone must be Amritdhari. Nirmale are part of the Khalsa Panth but historically were focused on brahamchari, learning and propagating Gurmat rather than fighting. So why can't they do Propagating Gurmat by being Amritdhari like i said Baba Deep Singh Ji. All the groups that existed prior to Khalsa Panth being created did take charan amrit and Guru Sahib replaced it with Khanda De Pahul. Who has the right to say they can be Sikh without taking Amrit. Edited June 28, 2011 by namdhari55 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 You'll find most answers to your questions have been posted many times over on this forum. Please use the search button. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 See your e-mail for the references Tsingh ji. Sorry for the delay 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osingh1 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) It would be interesting to know the daily routine of udasis, sevapanthis. For example which banis are compulsory, ie, japji sahib, rehras, sohila. Its good to hear nirmale are expected to take amrit and that kesh is compulsory. Is kesh compulsory for seva panthi and udasis? Do sevapanti and udasis recieve same gurmantr as khalsa panth? Maybe tsingh can shed more light on basic maryada, especially for udasis and sevapanthi. rabb rakhe Edited June 28, 2011 by osingh1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Again, scroll through the 'sampradaya' section from a few years ago, there's lots on all those subjects here and there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) . Edited June 29, 2011 by tSingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akali dilsidak singh Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 On 6/28/2011 at 8:00 PM, osingh1 said: Is kesh compulsory for seva panthi and udasis? Do sevapanti and udasis recieve same gurmantr as khalsa panth? Maybe tsingh can shed more light on basic maryada, especially for udasis and sevapanthi. rabb rakhe udasis dont take amrit they are nanakpanthi they keep kesh and rehat but wear langot not kacchera its mandatory to take amrit in nirmal akharhas jee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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