Jump to content

Bhagats Were Sikhs?


Recommended Posts

What I heard in Gyani maskeen ji's Katha is that when one is in very deep meditation and has avastha then God

start speaking through it,may be where Guru's found this type of Divine bani from Bhagats they picked that bani and included it in Guru granth sahib ,this is the best explanation of Bhagat bani in Guru granth sahib I ever found

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have imagined a scenario of the grand magnitude of all the prominent bhagats of India converting to Sikhi would have left a lot of evidence in it's wake. This is no small thing.

If they did meet maybe the situation would have been more similar to the relationship between Mian Mir and Guru Arjan Dev ji? One of mutual respect but one where each still retained their own distinct religious identity? That's what it looks like today.

If they did become Sikh, what do people who believe this think Guru Nanak instructed them to do in terms of religious practice? Okay, they were already doing simran. So would it have been based around Sikh bani? If the bhagats did become Sikhs wouldn't the communities that subsequently formed around the bhagat in the wake of such a meeting be reciting Japji Sahib or some other bani/gurmantar they received through Baba Nanak?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is another one from the thread

“Actually various Janamsakhis do mention the Bhagats meeting Guru Nanak Dev Jeeâ€

Please can you give real references as I have never seen Jenam Sakhi’s which show all the Bhagats meeting Guru Nanak. Whilst we know Guru Nanak visited Ayodha and a Gurdwara exists there now we do not have any proof that he met all the Bhagats mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji there.

I have never read any Jenam Sakhi in which Bhagats Trilochan, Dhana, Ravidas etc held discourses with Guru Nanak, surely such a thing occurring would be recorded at least by Bhai Gurdas. What discussions are recorded of Bhagat Ravidas for example having with Guru Nanak, what updesh was given to them? If Guru Nanaks discussions with the Sidhs are recorded why aren’t his discussions and teachings to the Bhagats recorded (perhaps they never occured).

Just because Guru Nanak visited Ayodha where he debated with many holy men we cannot assume that every Bhagat mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji was there, and that they all became Sikhs. Just think about it, if every single Bhagat in Guru Granth Sahib Ji met Guru Nanak and became his Sikhs at Ayodha would they have not visited their Guru again for instance at Kartarpur where Guru Nanak settled. Or did they all just meet Guru Nanak once and then didn't bother to visit their Guru ever again??? This contradicts their own Bani's in Guru Granth Sahib Ji

While you mention meetings with Kabir Ji and Bhagat Pipa you fail to account for the rest of the Bhagats in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Concerning Bhagat Ravidas you have given some dates concerning his life period but no evidence for him meeting Guru Nanak. Are we to assume he was in the crowd at Ayodha; then again we can always say the Bhagats were there in the crowd in Medina, Mecca and any where else Guru Nanak went as well...

a reply to this post was:

Singh Jee

Just because something is not mentioned in Bhai Gurdas Jee’s Varaa does not mean it did not occur. Bhai Gurdas Jee never accounted for every single story from Guru Jee’s life. The primary focus of Bhai Gurdas Jee’s varaa is not Janamsakhis but to describe Gurmat philosophy from Gurbani. That is why it is called the “key†to understanding Gurbani.

I have already given “real†references by mentioning Granths, commemtaries, and Janamsakhis which mention Guru Nanak Dev Jee meeting with various Bhagats. For example, I mentioned Mehervaan’s Janamsakhi telling us about the meeting which occurred at Ayodhya. This Janamsakhi specifically mentions the names of the Bhagats Nama (Naamdev), Jai Dev, Trilochan, Ravidas, Sadhana, Dhana, Banee all meeting Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

I told you about the commentaries written by Bhagat Pipa Jee’s nephew which also mention how Guru Nanak met with Bhagat Pipa Jee.

Besides this, I have already mentioned to you that the Kabir Panthi Granths mention Guru Nanak Dev Jee meeting with Bhagat Kabir Jee. As I mentioned in my previous post, the first Kabir Panthi Dharam Daas also mentions Guru Nanak Dev Jee meeting with Bhagat Kabir Jee in his writings. Puraatan Granths “Kabir Mansoor†also confirm that this meeting did take place.

I don’t understand what “real†references did I not mention to you in the first place. I had already given to you the names of men close to the Bhagats, granths mentioning these meetings.

The reason I wanted to prove to you that Bhagat Ravidas Jee was a contemporary of Guru Nanak Dev Jee is because in your previous post you said they were not even contemporaries. So the reason I mentioned Mira Bhai follower of Bhagat Ravidas Jee was to prove that Bhagat Ravidas Jee was in fact a contemporary of Guru Nanak Dev Jee. As I have mentioned before in Mahervaan’s Janamsakhi, Bhagat Ravidas jee is mentioned as amongst the Bhagats who met with Guru Nanak Dev Jee at Ayodhya.

Twareek Guru Khalsa (pg 80) also says “Namdev, Ravidas, Trilochan, Parsaa & Haso Rai, Dharam Daas (both followers of Kabir Ji), Nitya Nand (was a follower of Ramanand) all met Guru Jee.

A Granth belonging to Ravidas Panthis mentions an interesting story in page 435â€

“Mardhana was with Guru Nanak Jee when visiting Banaras (Kaashi). The Brahmans and Khatris of Kaashi said to Guru Nanak Jee “You have visited that low caste Chamar Ravidas, when we (the high caste) are not even suppose to get touched by their mere shadow. Hearing this, Guru Nanak said to them:

NEECHA UNDAR NEECH JAAT, NEECHI HU AT NEECH||

JITHAY TIN KAY SANG SAAT, VADIYA SIO KIA REES||

JITHAY JEECH SAMALIAN, THITHAY NADIR TERI BAKSHISH|| (siri raag M, 1 -15)

All this proves that the Bhagats whose Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib Jee were not only contemporaries of Guru Nanak Dev Jee, but had met Guru Nanak Dev Jee personally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard Bhagat Bani Itihas has been written by Gyani Kirpal Singh after much research. I'd really like to read that book, seems very interesting. He researched old birs, went to the Bhagats native places etc. Next time I go Punjab I'll get it for sure.

Mehervaan Janamsakhi records 8 Bhagats who met Guru Nanak Sahib in Ayodhya.

Proof 1: "ਤਬ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਪਾਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਸਾਥ ਸਭਿ ਭਗਤ ਮਿਲੇ I ਮਿਲ ਕਰ ਮਿਲਣ ਆਏ I ਨਾਮਾ, ਜੈਦੇਉ, ਕਬੀਰ, ਤ੍ਰਿਲੋਚਨ, ਰਵਿਦਾਸ, ਸਧਨਾ, ਧੰਨਾ, ਬੇਣੀ I "

Proof 2: Gurdwara Guru Ka Baagh, Ayodhya.

There is another places in India (UP), where the locals tell that Guru Nanak met Bhagat Kabir. People of that area are Nanakpanthis. There were millions of Nanakpanthis in Asia, but due to lack of parchaar most of them reverted back to their 'original faiths'.

Dal, did those Bhagats establish a religion? Did they write any rules and regulations for their faith? Did they have seperate 'rituals'? No, most probably not. It was (much) later that some people established those religions with religious texts and 'temples'. Does the current Guru of Kabirpanthis have a lineage going back to Bhagat Kabir? Who knows if they aren't somewhat like the Kookay who became a sect with Ram Singh as Guru, while he never considered himself as such (and was just a Sikh).

Edited by SikhKhoj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sikhs are rediscovering lost chapters of their history. According to older Sikh sources, the Bhagats met with Guru Nanak Dev Jee and even got Naam from him. But when the British took over their historian Max Arthur Macouliff disregarded old held traditions of the SIkhs and asserted that the Bhagats were not even contemporaries of Guru Nanak Dev Jee. So it is our choice, whether we want to believe in British created history or traditional Sikh history based on primary(puraatan) Sikh sources.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110508/punjab.htm

Nanak Kuan gets a gurdwara

* Denizens of Maghar town near Gorakhpur in UP believe that Guru Nanak Dev and saint Kabir met at Maghar.

* When Guru Nanak visited the place, it was reeling under a drought. So he got a well constructed which is known as Nanak Kuan.

* Even though there are no Sikhs in Maghar, a large number of persons have faith in Guru Nanak and are known as Nanak Panthis.

* Earlier, the Nanak Kuan Gurdwara had 2.5 acres in its name, but there was no building.

* Gurdwara building to be ready in a few months. Text: Perneet Singh

pun1.jpg

Edited by Mithar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard Bhagat Bani Itihas has been written by Gyani Kirpal Singh after much research. I'd really like to read that book, seems very interesting. He researched old birs, went to the Bhagats native places etc. Next time I go Punjab I'll get it for sure.

Try to get your hands on Giani Gurdit Singh's book on Ithihas Bhagat Bani. That is probably the best and most well researched book on this topic. Giani Jee leaves no stone unturned to prove that the Bhagats were not only contemporaries of Guru Nanak Dev Jee but also took Naam from him. It is the (Dhur Ki)Bani after they took Naam from Guru Nanak Dev Jee that was included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. While the Bani that they wrote before getting Naam from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee was not included and is not considered Dhur Ki Bani by the Sikhs.

I remember Bijla Singh of Sikh Sangat forum wrote some excellent posts regarding this issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you look at some of the ithaasic sakhia in the Guru granth sahib and match them to the dates they occured, i think some serious questions will arise how some of the bhagats could have met the gurus.

For example look at the shabads of Bhagat Kabir jee and Bhagat Naamdev jee when the kings of their time tried to kill them.

Also Bhagats like Jaidev jee have their own ithaasic sakhia. Look at who was the raja during that period. I dont understand how the Meharbaan Janamsakhi is mentioning the meeting between guru jee and Bhagat jee.

Bhai Gurdas jee does mention the bhagat's and does there ustat in his vaaran. So it is plausible he would have clarified if they became sikhs. IF they did become Sikhs then are you suggesting the bani guru jee collected was prior to their conversion? Does that mean they had reached brahmgian avastha and recited dhur ki bani before guru jee reached them? Why then become Sikhs? Similarly Sain Mian Mir avastha is such that he would enter Sachkhand, however we did not find the need to convert him into a Sikh.

Ive not read any evidence that Baba Farid Shakarganj did not write the shabads and sholak contained in guru granth sahib. Opinions have been expressed from various writers so far. Does his bani suggest he became a Sikh? the following shabad suggests not: Bai namaji kutia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding Bhagat Jaidev (who authored the Govind Gita)

The earliest mention of Jayadeva outside Odisha are by Chand Bardai, the court poet of Prithviraj Chauhan. The next earliest reference outside Odisha is found in an inscription of Raja Sarangadev in the year 1201 A.D. These records establish that the Gita Govinda became popular throughout India within a brief period of its composition, perhaps because it was regularly performed in the Jagannath temple of Puri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayadeva

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dal, did those Bhagats establish a religion? Did they write any rules and regulations for their faith? Did they have seperate 'rituals'? No, most probably not. It was (much) later that some people established those religions with religious texts and 'temples'. Does the current Guru of Kabirpanthis have a lineage going back to Bhagat Kabir? Who knows if they aren't somewhat like the Kookay who became a sect with Ram Singh as Guru, while he never considered himself as such (and was just a Sikh).

I understand but I would have thought at least some strands of the faith(s) would have had hard reference to the Satguru of their Guru?

I know we've probably had lots of Nanak Panthi type communities spread throughout India in the past that have reverted back to their contextual religions post Khalsa inauguration.

But again, I think an event of such magnitude of all bhagats converting would have left more traces in multiple ways. Who knows, maybe a new spurt of research into the field will help shed light on the matter?

Besides, I was under the impression that it was Guru Arjan dev ji who compiled the bhagat bani into SGGS ji, so linking the selected bhagat bani specifically to those who had earlier been converted by Baba Nanak is questionable. I don't reject the idea of Baba ji meeting all the bhagats, but we need a lot more evidence than we have now to be able to accept the idea wholesale.

On the other side, the implications of all the bhagats being Sikhs are quite fundamentally different to those that a lot of people consider to be mainline Sikhi today (Singh Sabha influenced). I know I've grown up being told/reading that the inclusion of 'nonSikh' bhagat bani is symbolic of a lot of things that marks out our faith from others. Oftenyou read/hear about how our Gurus demonstrated truly exalted levels of spirituality and humanity by including bani from nonSikh sources, clearly warning Sikhs against ignorantly considering their way as an exclusive route to Waheguru. All the mainline literature the panth has been pushing out for a century or so, says as much. If now, we find that, no, they were actually all Sikh, the theological implications are quite significant and divergent from what has been pumped out for some time now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarkantak#Kabir_chabutra_.28the_platform_of_saint_Kabir.29

Kabir chabutra (the platform of saint Kabir)

It is an old belief that the great saint Kabir performed austerities here and achieved spiritual powers. It is therefore a holy place for the Kabir panth sect. The local people, the Panikas, consider Kabir Chabutara as one of the holiest places of the Kabirpanthis because Sant Kabir spent many years here in meditation.At this very place Kabir and Nanak met and discussed spiritual matters and introduced the way of better living for human being. It is also the meeting point of three districts, Anuppur and Dindori districts of Madhya Pradesh and Bilaspur district of Chhatisgarh. There is also a Kabir waterfall here.

These are places that are known to Kabir Panthis. We Sikhs do not even know of these places. Just imagine the unknown portions of Sikh Guru history we are yet to discover.

Sab Te Vadda Satgur Nanak!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Won't it be better if we discuss Bhagat by Bhagat and see the ones that can be confirmed as having met Guru Nanak Sahib/become his Sikhs.

Start with Bhagat Kabir and Bhagat Jaidev?

I know I've grown up being told/reading that the inclusion of 'nonSikh' bhagat bani is symbolic of a lot of things that marks out our faith from others. Oftenyou read/hear about how our Gurus demonstrated truly exalted levels of spirituality and humanity by including bani from nonSikh sources, clearly warning Sikhs against ignorantly considering their way as an exclusive route to Waheguru. All the mainline literature the panth has been pushing out for a century or so, says as much. If now, we find that, no, they were actually all Sikh, the theological implications are quite significant and divergent from what has been pumped out for some time now.

Thats right. It is this mindset that lead people from Sikh backgrounds to believe that everything in other religions is right, many of them having no problem going to worship at Mandirs, tombs (of Pirs) etc.

Sikhi rejects Hinduism and Islam, Pandit Mulla Jo Likh Diaa Chaad Chale Ham Kachoo Na Leea.

Everyone of GGS is united under one thought, meaning all auhors agreed on Na Ham Hindu Na Musalmaan and Hindu Anna Turku Kaana.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Discussion 1: Bhagat Kabir and Guru Nanak.

* Met in Ayodhya, Uttar Pradesh. (Proof: Mehervaan Janamsakhi and Gurdwara Guru Ka Bagh)

* Met in Nanak Kuan, Maghar, Uttar Pradesh. (Proof: local legend, upcoming Gurdwara in memory of meeting)

* Met in Amarkantak, Madhya Pradesh. (Proof: Kabir Chabutra - place where Bhagat Kabir meditated and met Guru is preserved )

Discussion 2: Bhagat Jaidev and Guru Nanak

* Met in Ayodhya, Uttar Pradesh. (Proof: Mehervaan Janamsakhi and Gurdwara Guru Ka Bagh)

Please keep adding to the list as we progress.

----------------------

Amardeep, how do you know that it is the same Jaidev? Just asking. Bachittar Natak mentions a Ramanand who didn't know of God and was a Bairagi (before Muhammad), and we have our Bhagat Ramanand. So why not two Jaidevs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Discussion 1: Bhagat Kabir and Guru Nanak.

* Met in Ayodhya, Uttar Pradesh. (Proof: Mehervaan Janamsakhi and Gurdwara Guru Ka Bagh)

* Met in Nanak Kuan, Maghar, Uttar Pradesh. (Proof: local legend, upcoming Gurdwara in memory of meeting)

* Met in Amarkantak, Madhya Pradesh. (Proof: Kabir Chabutra - place where Bhagat Kabir meditated and met Guru is preserved )

In addition that that:

*Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's Twareek Guru Khalsa also confirms Guru jee meeting with the Bhagats.

*Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwalay also confirms this. His Gurmat vidhya lineage goes all the way back to Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

----------------------

I agree with you on the point that it can be quite possible that there may have been more than one historical Jaidev just as it is confirmed that their were more than one Naamdev.

Edited by Mithar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats right. It is this mindset that lead people from Sikh backgrounds to believe that everything in other religions is right, many of them having no problem going to worship at Mandirs, tombs (of Pirs) etc.

That's an oversimplification because it was Singh Sabha that pushed this idea the hardest, yet no one can accuse them of being fuzzy with the boundary of the Sikh community.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does'nt this vaar say that Ramanand was the Guru of Kabir?

http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/10/pauri/15/line/3

This section of the Vaars deal with events from the lives of the Bhagats of the Bhagti movement and even the Bhagats of the previous Yugas. These events give spiritual moral lesson to the readers. They are called Dhrishtaants. These Dhristaants inspire the reader to also be as spiritually eager as the Bhagats. The eagerness of Bhagat Kabir jee presented in this story is inspirational and shows that Sikhs should also be as eager if they want to achieve spiritual heights. The Vaars are full of Dhristaants from start to end.

Edited by Mithar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Won't you agree that most of the time it is only a Sikh that will say 'all religions lead to god'. Go on Facebook, you will see no Muslim leaving the religion box unfilled. But many times a Sikh will have 'all religions are good' 'i like all religions' etc. Why is that? Because we don't teach the importance of Sikhi. If all religions reached to God, what was need to create Sikhi? Bottomline is we don't discriminate and are tolerant of them, even fight for them if needed, BUT we don't accept their religious ideologies.

This view has done more damage to Sikhi than you think. I don't care about what non-Sikhs say, we might aswell lie about Kirpan to get more favorable comments. I know many who do, saying Kirpan is only a symbol and not to be used bla bla bla. Sikhi won't change for anyone. If Ram Rai couldn't distort Gurbani to please the Mughals, then who are we to change Gurmat to please this (western) society.

-------

Mithar, I like your explanation.

If Bhagat Kabir was Bhagat Ramanands Chela and didn't meet Guru Nanak Ji, how would you explain Gauri Bavan Akhree Kabeer Jio then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Won't you agree that most of the time it is only a Sikh that will say 'all religions lead to god'. Go on Facebook, you will see no Muslim leaving the religion box unfilled. But many times a Sikh will have 'all religions are good' 'i like all religions' etc. Why is that? Because we don't teach the importance of Sikhi. If all religions reached to God, what was need to create Sikhi? Bottomline is we don't discriminate and are tolerant of them, even fight for them if needed, BUT we don't accept their religious ideologies.

This view has done more damage to Sikhi than you think

I agree with you.Sikhs are raised with so much of secularism in their mind that they hardly consider sikhi as superior.Sikh women marry men from other religions because they think what's wrong if i convert as all Religion are equal

I found the news of Sikhs building the mosques in Punjab as surprising than a good one.We as Community did hardly for victims of 84 or other poor Sikhs yet we are building mosques which were destroyed in 47 ,what are we trying to prove ,that we are god of secularism? and even after that news there was no response from Pakistani side whether they are even remotely interested in building Gurdwara's which they destroyed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You hit the nail on the head brother. There are Sikh girls marrying Muslims even in our own Punjab now. But lets not go off topic. What do you think about the topic after reading some of the last posts?

Firstly,

I'd like to apologize to Dalsinghfor not starting the new topic. It was the canada day long weekend here and I was riddled with alot of events. I would like to add in my 2 cents though. I read in a book by gyani ishar singh nara, that the first charanamrit ceremony occured when bhai lehna became guru angad sahib. This poses the question as to whether guru nanak had actually been giving gyan as opposed to setting up dharamsals. We read sidh gosht, but is there ever a mention of those naths or the bairagi's for whom japji sahib was created/explained as being gursikhs? Could it be that Guru Nanak had engaged in charcha and showed due respect to the bhagats but they had actually verified gurmat in their own way? (I'm not doing a one up here or a reverse one-up and taking a jab at the guru's in any way, so I apologize if it is coming across that way). I am merely saying that if the meetings did occur, they may have been influenced by gurmat and they were given the accolade of 'bhagats' because they were in line with what gurmat encompassed...where bhagti and gyan come together.

I would say that sikhi being universal is a prachar that would be more in line with the politics around the 'enlightenment' period that was in vogue when early singh sabha'ites were interpreting sikhi through a new framework.

In 6 patshah's time, sikhs were 'khalsa'/'darbari'/sahlangi....khalsa (those who took initiation from guru hargobind sahib), darbari (those who travelled with the darbar), sahlangi (those who took initiation from masands).....I believe there was room for everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You hit the nail on the head brother. There are Sikh girls marrying Muslims even in our own Punjab now. But lets not go off topic. What do you think about the topic after reading some of the last posts?

I am still in double mind.It looks to me that some Bhagats met Guru Nanak and adopted Gurmat but others if accepted that they were original were in Not in time of Guru Nanak

Saint Namdev

1270 A.D - 1350 A.D

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/namdev.html

Also Sikh history .com puts the date of Kabir ji's Demise much earlier than Guru Nanak was born

Saint Kabir 1398 A.D - 1448 A.D

Saint Kabir Das (kabir, Arabic for "great", dasa, Sanskrit for "slave" or "servant"), is widely acknowledged as one of the great personality of the Bhakti movement in North India. He was as is widely acknowledged born in Year 1398 A.D.(71 years before Guru Nanak). Kabirpanthis (followers of Kabir) say that he lived upto the age of 120 years and give date of his death as 1518, but relying on the research of Hazari Prased Trivedi, a British Scholar Charlotte Vaudenville is inclined to lend credence to these dates and has prooven that 1448 is probably the correct date of Saint Kabir's demise.

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/kabir.html

so again If Bhagat Namdev of GGS was the original Marathi Bhagat of 13th 14 th century then theory of all Bhagats meeting Guru Nanak and Becoming Sikhs could be debatable

Anyway I don't found anything wrong in this propa ganda as to Younger generation we can tell them that Bhagats were Sikhs so other religions may not be manipulate their thinking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am still in double mind.It looks to me that some Bhagats met Guru Nanak and adopted Gurmat but others if accepted that they were original were in Not in time of Guru Nanak

Atleast you agree about some. Will try convincing you about others aswell.

Saint Namdev

1270 A.D - 1350 A.D

http://www.sikh-hist...nts/namdev.html

Bhagat Namdev is mentioned in Mehervaan Janamsakhi as having met Guru Nanak in Ayodhya.

Also Sikh history .com puts the date of Kabir ji's Demise much earlier than Guru Nanak was born

Saint Kabir 1398 A.D - 1448 A.D

Saint Kabir Das (kabir, Arabic for "great", dasa, Sanskrit for "slave" or "servant"), is widely acknowledged as one of the great personality of the Bhakti movement in North India. He was as is widely acknowledged born in Year 1398 A.D.(71 years before Guru Nanak). Kabirpanthis (followers of Kabir) say that he lived upto the age of 120 years and give date of his death as 1518, but relying on the research of Hazari Prased Trivedi, a British Scholar Charlotte Vaudenville is inclined to lend credence to these dates and has prooven that 1448 is probably the correct date of Saint Kabir's demise.

http://www.sikh-hist...ents/kabir.html

Sadly many of our Bhagats are of little importance to others, BUT some Bhagats have many other followers (non Sikhs) - such as Bhagat Kabir. So naturally many non Sikh writers have written about Bhagat Kabir. Many, including Rabindranath Tagore, agree that Bhagat Kabir was born in 1440. How has Hazari Prasad Trivedi proved that Bhagat Kabir died in 1448? Link his 'research'.

so again If Bhagat Namdev of GGS was the original Marathi Bhagat of 13th 14 th century then theory of all Bhagats meeting Guru Nanak and Becoming Sikhs could be debatable

Again, all the dates were fixed lateron by Macauliffe in 1900s. Max Arthur Macauliffe had other wrong views aswell; he believed that the Bhagat Banis weren't know to the earlier Gurus (before Guru Arjan). That the Bhagat Banis were altered (to explain the difference between Bani and the Bhagats other writings + the 'Sikh/Punjabi' influences in their Bani).

Anyway I don't found anything wrong in this propa ganda as to Younger generation we can tell them that Bhagats were Sikhs so other religions may not be manipulate their thinking

This is not propaganda brother, this is the truth. I am very much against making up stories to propegate Sikhi, I can't live with a wrong history.

Edited by SikhKhoj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...