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namdhari55

Did Baba Deep Singh Ji Do Havan?

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while reading the manglacharan website i came across this passage which says Baba Deep Singh Ji did havan can anyone tell me if this is right or im not understanding this passage.

Naveen Panth Prakash, written by Giani Gian Singh in 1880 AD about the story of Baba Deep Singh.

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਿੰਘ ਪਾਠ ਅਖੰਡ ਕਰਾਯੋ । ਹਮਨ ਕਰਯੋ ਕੰਗਨਾ ਬੰਧਵਾਯੋ ।

Baba Ji organized an Akhand Paat and completed a Havan [before heading towards the battle] and tied a wedding bracelet around his wrist [a preparation for martyrdom as death is seen as a merging with their beloved Lord]

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I can not imagine he did. In historical analysis one thing you learn is that authors often project contemporary practices backwards in time... Meaning that havan might have been normal in the days of Ratan Singh Bhangu so he automaticly asumes that Baba Deep Singh must have done the same before heading for war.

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correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Baba Deep Singh of Nirmala origin?

If so , many nirmalas ( as well as other groups) do havan , even today, so i would have thought that they did perform havan as part of general puja before going into battle.

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correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Baba Deep Singh of Nirmala origin?

If so , many nirmalas ( as well as other groups) do havan , even today, so i would have thought that they did perform havan as part of general puja before going into battle.

Baba Deep Singh Jee was a Nihang.

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That they were, but I've heard that they were also nirmala as well.

Apparently it was fairly commmon in the past for people to belong to more than one Samparda.

That's almost like someone being an AKJ and Taksali at the same time!

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From what I know and learnt from Baba Jagjeet Singh Ji Harkhowal Wale's Katha, Baba Ji did a havan but a havan of the mind. That is he burnt his desire to live in the fire of Brahmgyanta.

Exactly i asked sant ji this question, he mentioned this as well- havan of mind is biggest havan where you put your thoughts as samagri in havan and with fire of bhramgyan burned them into ashes.

Vahiguroo..!!! :D

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Exactly i asked sant ji this question, he mentioned this as well- havan of mind is biggest havan where you put your thoughts as samagri in havan and with fire of bhramgyan burned them into ashes.

Vahiguroo..!!! :D

There are many plausible reasons why I give this statement of Baba Ji's credence. Not least being that Baba Deep Singh was a true Gurmukh. Another being the query that is Havan even part of Sargun Bhagti?

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while reading the manglacharan website i came across this passage which says Baba Deep Singh Ji did havan can anyone tell me if this is right or im not understanding this passage.

Naveen Panth Prakash, written by Giani Gian Singh in 1880 AD about the story of Baba Deep Singh.

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਿੰਘ ਪਾਠ ਅਖੰਡ ਕਰਾਯੋ । ਹਮਨ ਕਰਯੋ ਕੰਗਨਾ ਬੰਧਵਾਯੋ ।

Baba Ji organized an Akhand Paat and completed a Havan [before heading towards the battle] and tied a wedding bracelet around his wrist [a preparation for martyrdom as death is seen as a merging with their beloved Lord]

Gyani Gian Singh was also heavily criticized by Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale. Look through Bhinda mahapurakh's works to see if you can find any analysation of Giani Gian Singh and see why he was criticized. Maybe that will answer your question.

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Another being the query that is Havan even part of Sargun Bhagti?

I wouldn't call it sargun bhagti as it wasn't meant for a daily thing but was probably used by singhs prior to going to battle field - seeking blessing/power of shaheed singhs- sikh equivalent to demi gods (devi/devtas).

Indeed, its an well known fact acknowledged by taksali that jot during sri akhand patt sahib attracts shaheed singhs and shaheed singhs/demi gods comes during patt to listen and give its blessing- given the fact if sri akhand patt sahib is performed with full vidhi.

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I wouldn't call it sargun bhagti as it wasn't meant for a daily thing but was probably used by singhs prior to going to battle field - seeking blessing/power of shaheed singhs- sikh equivalent to demi gods (devi/devtas).

Indeed, its an well known fact acknowledged by taksali that jot during sri akhand patt sahib attracts shaheed singhs and shaheed singhs/demi gods comes during patt to listen and give its blessing- given the fact if sri akhand patt sahib is performed with full vidhi.

Are there any official citations for that? I have seen jot being lit many times myself but never understood the purpose beyond it.

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not sure but i heard jot attracting shaheed singhs and mukht roha are mentioned in bhindran taksal works such as gurbani patt darshan/darshan, gurmat rehit maryada, gurmukh parkash ..let me know if you find anything in your research from taksali works..here is more information on sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale granths: http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/7348-sant-gurbachan-singh-ji-bhindranwales-granths/

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That's almost like someone being an AKJ and Taksali at the same time!

Mithar, Well he made copies of Guru Granth Sahib after he was done fighting under Banda Bahadur...

The Brahm Kavach also mentions havan, it is possible havan was done those times. The namdharis still do havan.

Jaikara, Even some mainstream Sikhs do havan so I wouldn't be surprised if the tradition dates back to puratan Singhs.

havan of mind is biggest havan where you put your thoughts as samagri in havan and with fire of bhramgyan burned them into ashes.

N30Singh, what do you mean? and where did you get this metaphor from?

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N30Singh, what do you mean? and where did you get this metaphor from?

I asked regarding havan or hom to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowal- If baba deep singh ji did hom or havan? Thats what baba ji responded back. It perfectably make sense. It does not make sense for bhramgyani/atamgyani to do hom or havan..he is already above all these sargun rituals..!!

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Ok I see. Well as far as I know, in a havan, the materials are offered to God with the fire as the transport. They are carried and not "burnt to ashes" like the phenomenon of undesired mental activity slowly dissolving in simran. When the materials are placed in the fire, it is said that Agni Dev Himself takes them to whichever God they are intended for.

sargun rituals

Does gurbani differentiate between sargun and nirgun rituals?

Edited by BhagatSingh

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Does gurbani differentiate between sargun and nirgun rituals?

Not sure about clearly differentiating them. However gurbani does give indication about nine types of sargun bhagti/rituals towards sri guru granth sahib ji (shabad guru) and rituals associated with it such as akhand patt/presence of mukht roha -shaheed singhs etc.

Only bhramgyani or utam jaigaso based on their level of consciousness and state of mind can do nirgun bhagti.

Baba Tirath Singh Nirmala in his translation of Pundit Gulab Singhs Bhavrasamrit (p42-44) mentions the nine limbs of Bhakti which are referred to in the Sikh tradition as the Nvai Parkar (Nine methods):

1. Sravan - hearing the divine* praises.

2. Kirtan - singing the praised of the divine.

3. Simran - remembrance of the divines name.

4. Padsevena - service and offerings at the divines feet.

5. Archana - worship the divine.

6. Bandana - prostration before the divine.

7. Dasyam - developing feeling or emotion of being the divine's servant.

8. Sakhyam - cultivating the emotional bond of friendship.

9. Atma Nivedana - surrender of the self to the divine.

SGGS Ang- 71

Bhagat Navaie Parkara.

There are nine forms of devotional worship

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Yeah that makes sense, the same is stated in this book: http://books.google.ca/books?id=Ua-E20uyH9IC&pg=RA1-PA133&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false It references to Bhagvad Puran where Prehlaad talks about the nine limbs of Bhagati. The author goes onto describe them further.

Only bhramgyani or utam jaigaso based on their level of consciousness and state of mind can do nirgun bhagti.

So Brahmgiani don't do simran or kirtan, etc?

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So Brahmgiani don't do simran or kirtan, etc?

They do but they do so...so that their disciples and jaigaso(students)/sangat overall, don't go astray by copying them. Overall, they don't need to. They are already merged with bhram, there is no dualism left or difference between them and vahiguroo.

Please see below for more information on their bhramgyani state and dual consciousness:

This is must listen. Please listen to audio by sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale regarding characteristics of Jevan Mukht and Bedah Mukht. Basically people who cannot understand punjabi...i will try to explain as much my buddhi can:

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Man_Budh_Atam/08--Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Aatma.Ki.Hai.mp3 (From 80.55 minutes until end)

Jevan Mukht- A person who is jevan mukht stays in sehaj avastha, have double consciousnesses, can engage in worldly duties because their sattvic mind(satoguni mind) is still there to do parchar/spread love/kindness to this world, rajo and tamogun portion of mind its destroyed.

Bedah Mukht- A person who is bedah mukht can only survive days, they are in nirvkalap samadhi(non transcendental meditative state), they have totally negate their mind (made of rajo, tamo, sato), antish karan, there is no coming back, they cannot do kriya on their own, their disciples try to feed them just to keep them alive to see them in smadhi.

Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawale said in divan, he came across with such one person of bedah mukht avastha who was at bedah muhkht avastha at haridvar, there were lines of people who were awaiting to do their darshan.

People who don't beleive in great sakhiya baba deep singh ji cutting their head and fighting or bhai mani singh shaheedi should research more on bedah mukht avastha before getting stuck in web of sansas(doubts).

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N30 Singh,

Thanks that whole katha was awesome! Went through it twice as it was good revision of the basics.

Bedah Mukht- A person who is bedah mukht can only survive days, they are in nirvkalap samadhi(non transcendental meditative state), they have totally negate their mind (made of rajo, tamo, sato), antish karan, there is no coming back, they cannot do kriya on their own, their disciples try to feed them just to keep them alive to see them in smadhi.

How are you relating this to Baba Deep Singh still fighting with his head cut off? Wouldn't he need to be taken care of if he went into a deep samadhi during battle?

Coming back to:

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਿੰਘ ਪਾਠ ਅਖੰਡ ਕਰਾਯੋ । ਹਮਨ ਕਰਯੋ ਕੰਗਨਾ ਬੰਧਵਾਯੋ ।

This is describing all the customary rituals they go through before battle. I don't think any of these are metaphorical. akhand path, havan and kangana bandhana. If havan is a metaphor, isn't akhand path, and kangan also a metaphor? To me, this is men doing their rituals to prepare their body and mind to fight. Such rituals also existed in the hunter-gatherer societies, in other forms. India seems to have retained a lot of the very very old traditions through a strict practice of oral tradition, and having certain intelligent men devote their lives to only the practice of such rituals (iie. pandits who then passed them on to the next generation before they departed).

I recall hearing about Guru Gobind Singh ji doing a Havan at Naina Devi the day before Vaisakhi. Over at Anandpur Sahib, they say your pilgrimage is not complete till you have been to Naina Devi as well.

Edited by BhagatSingh

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I recall hearing about Guru Gobind Singh ji doing a Havan at Naina Devi the day before Vaisakhi. Over at Anandpur Sahib, they say your pilgrimage is not complete till you have been to Naina Devi as well.

I don't believe for one second that sri guru gobind singh ji did havan at Naina Devi, there was no need for guru avtari pursh to do havan to invoke shakti etc, they were highest sargun avtar saroop of akaal purkh even for hari avtar saroop of sri akaal purkh such as ram chandar ji or sri krishan ji most likely didn't do any havan themselves to invoke naina devi, shakti or anything, lets just say even if they did, they probably did so to maintain yug dharam maryada in their respective yugas..fast fwd to kalyug or current yug yudh dharam maryada- Naam abhyas, sri dasam granth yudh compositions such as chandi di var, chandi charitar, shastar naam mala etc banis along with Kshatriya tradition like chatka- shastar puja trumps havan, hom at naina devi/kali devi etc. Sikh shouldn't wrap their head around too many rituals but rather concentrate on tat gyan teachings of gurbani and sri dasam granth sahib yudh banis.

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