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Guest Javanmard

Exorcism in Sikhi

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Guest Javanmard

Gurfateh

I am interested in your stories about demonic possession,black magic ghosts, witches, curses etc... and how these situations have been solved through Sikhi (exorcism,the help of a saintly person, Baba Vadbhag Singh, special ceremonies or path etc...). This is not a discussion about the belief of these things in Sikhi. I am just interested in this discussion in a purely anthroplogical research perspective. Thank you. :twisted:

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Have a read of literature produced by the AKJ. I am sure there is a story where Bhai Randhir Singh (or one of the Sikhs within his sangat) encountered a Ghost.

Also, I believe there is a tape in existance of a recording taken during an exorcism of a child by a famous Saint (possibly Sant Ishar Singh??).

(someone please correct me if I am wrong)

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it's not the same thing as christian excorcism

actually i know someone personally who encountered a problem as such and her parents contacted the Panj Pyare (a very smart decision), rather than trying out strange hindu rituals (which some lost people might do), seeing how that would obviously lead to nothing.

So anyway, the panj pyare actually began to speak to the soul that had possessed this girl (gurmukhs have amazing abilities to do such things, as they've been given endless kirpa from guru jee), it was a type of ghost that was lost and had no where to go, so the Panj Pyare did a sehaj paat and prayed for the soul's mukhtee. After the Paat and ardaas, the soul left the girls body.

Sikhs know that there may be stuff like black magic out there, but nothing at ALL is above the Guru - the Guru can cure and heal EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. Nothing - no ghosts/spirits/black magic, etc is above the Guru, or even close to the Guru.

dhan guruuuu nanak !!!

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Sikh has no dealings with caste distinctions, black magic, or superstitious practices. Explanation: The Sikh places his/her faith in God alone, and s/he is resigned to the Will of God. The Sikh performs all duties as prescribed by the Guru and leaves the results of his/her actions up to God. This instruction helped to pull the Sikh away from the prevailing practices which kept the people living in fear and insecurity in their relationship with God.

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Khalsa Fateh

Lalleshvari,

In Himachal Pradesh, you may have heard of a Gurdwara, Baba Dera Sahib.

It is the Gurdwara of Baba Vadbhag Singh Ji.

10tt1.jpg

History:

Baba Vadbhag Singh Ji was a Great chela/warrior of Guru Gobind Singh Ji (having chucked amrit from the 10th master himself and fought bravely in many battles). Once while resting under a tree, the King of Demons approached him. Not knowing that the BabaJi was highly blessed, the demon was caught. Babaji agreed to release the demon, under the condition that the demon performs seva. It was agreed, and the demon is known as Baba Nahr Sahib Ji. From this day, this gurudwara has become a location where sangat comes to be cured of demonic possessions.

Gurdwara

When reaching this gurudwara, first thing you’ll notice is some strange behaviour of members of the sangat, ie. some serious head rolling, 360degrees, hair open, continuously.

These people are possessed by spirits.

There is queue to pass under a small water fall – its reputed that this water flows from the mouth of Baba Nahr Sahib. People who are possessed pass through, and are tapped with a steel bar. Sometimes they faint – the spirits are now exercised.

10tt2.jpg

They say that the exercised spirits reside at the top of the mountain…

However, sometimes, the spirit is a ‘heavyweight’, and is not easily removed.

Then the possessed person progresses to the tree where babaji sat (manji sahib, i think).

The head rolling continues…and continues….I don’t know how these people are cured, but I do know that a mahapush has the capability to do so.

You may read more about it:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99jan16/s...day/head6.htm#1

If anyone doesnt believe in ghosts/spirits, I suggest you visit this Gurdwara.

Its no hoax, that's for sure

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yeah but instead of going to that gurdwara, y dont jus get the "possesed" person, sit em down and do naam simran for few hours or can do keertan sohaila or sukhmani sahib da paath :pray: all of these are top notch things u can do(its jus that sum1 might not be livin in india an might need an alternative) :LOL:

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fateh

ive been to this place and had a shower under this waterfall, the water is freezing cold...no i was not possessed by a spirit, but i saw so many people moving their heads like crazy i tell u guys its a pretty scary sight and they make all these noises too...some of them i saw were chained so that they could be controlled...some of them r sooooooooooo hard to take under the waterfall to be cured and soo many people have to get a hold of them...its scary az

:shock: :pray:

fateh

oh yea when these possessed people r made to sit down and listen to path or ne Godly stuff they go crazy and start shaking their heads wild...the sight is awful

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Guest Javanmard

I think the discussion is going on very well. I encourage everyone to come with their stories. Dear desikuddi we're not discussing the belief in these things but as I said before we're trying to see how Sikhi can help in against evil in all those forms.

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I bumped this thread because I just had a similar question in my mind of How exorcism is done in Sikhi ?

From my limited understanding I believe if someone does get possessed I think approaching the Panj Pyaare would be great a idea and then they would give advise to what to do. Also if someone has a sangat of a Chardikala Mahapurakh or a Gursikh , they can also be approached. or Just lie down in front of the Guru Granth Sahib and keep asking the forgiveness for sins.

I have also heard Chandi Charitar path is very helpful in countering these evil spirits.

I believe that these spirits are either trying to get mukti or they just trying to find their food through a medium (human body) that why they possess people.

But I have also heard whoever is a nitnemi of Japji Sahib path , they will never get possessed by a Ghost.

I personally haven' t experienced any event like this but have just heard stories.

Sangats views please

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"But I have also heard whoever is a nitnemi of Japji Sahib path , they will never get possessed by a Ghost"

This statement can be found in the Suraj Prakash Granth of Bhai Santokh Singh, he actually makes the following quite clear:

1. Jap Ji Sahib Nitnem is a basic must for any Sikh of any description.

2. One who recites Jap Ji Sahib daily will never be affected by possessions etc.

3. Therefore, if one is affected by such things, then that one is by definition, not a Sikh.

That probably clarifies the 19th century Sikh "view" on the subject.

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Such things are just energies, which for some reason are not able to transcend to closure. Usually in the case of possessions the energy, ghost etc call it what you like, can if vibrant enough cause possessions longing the attachment to live. Usually they are used remorselessly by those that dabble in the occult. Such energies that are traumatised enough are used in these ways.

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I don't wish to sound like a broken record, and Dancing Warrior, no critique to you per se, however there has been a noted increase on the forum of psuedo-scientific language, with which I have a problem (I've outlined my reasons elsewhere in conversation with Maha Kharag Singh).

Specifically here, the use of the term "energy" for anything that is not visible to the human eye or somehow "mystic" or "paranormal" to me seems to be a hangover from 19th century European thought, where “energy†was made out to be something spiritual and non-matter-like versus non-spiritual materialism.. It is a shame that we are still falling foul of this thought process in the 21st century, particularly seeing that during the 20th century, science demonstrated that energy is simply another form of matter.

As mentioned to MKS elsewhere, these “new age†adoption of terms “energy†is frankly ignorant of fundamental scientific understanding and actually does more damage than it solves when addressing genuine religious and spiritual matters (which arguably this thread on “ghosts†probably is not, but I’m in the mood for a rant!)

More specifically, the reasons for my rant, in addition to what I have already mentioned to MKS is that such a view is not only problematic in terms of its futility for assessing spiritual matters (which the discussion with MKS outlined, namely that science is always ‘evolving’ whereas all religious and spiritual texts claim to be “timelessâ€, therein lying the massive contradiction and hence several problems arise therein) but also, such views have also resulted in numerous socio-political issues, which specifically for Sikhs would be the black and white analysis of secular cultural traditions being Gurmat or “Anti-Gurmatâ€.

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Energy as you say is a make up of a type of matter and the overall energy vibrancy, true, but this is not the tangible energy I’m referring to. I use the term “energy†because in this case it is the easiest way to explain, it is not really energy at all……it gets long talking about different types of Karmic make up of the physical, Mind etc and what some refer to as the “Soul†and its relevance to such incidents, so I use the word energy, however this is also inaccurate. The “it†here is incredibly complex and difficult to explain.

There is nothing Mystical, Paranormal or Hippy heaven about it, simply the process of physical death and the subsequent scenarios, No Science, No Scripture.

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Dancing Warrior,

My initial comments were not directly to you per se, however I retract this statement, as you (like Karmjeet and Wahegurubol) feel it is acceptable to take a well-defined term and use it loosely and/or even re-define it (without indicating that you are doing this) and think that this is perfectly acceptable in terms of:

(a) use of language

(B) form of communication

© validation of your views

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In defence I wasn’t using the term loosely or re-defining it. The “it†being larger than the term. The term was most suitable for the expression of action, I was simply trying to explain something to the best of my ability. There was no motive or intent for “the validation of (my) views†therefore I stand not guilty of all three of your charges.

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I agree with the power of the preventitive measure i.e. Jap Ji Sahib.

Which in my experience has equated to all Gursikh people I know never having a bad experience re "ghosts" or "possessions".

But what should a person or family do that have fallen victim to possession... rather than random theories, is there advice in historical texts providing a cure, with Niranajan already quoting (thanks) in terms of prevention?

As far as I know, the Baba Vadbhag Singh Dera is the traditional and acknowledged place that these unfortunate people have been going to for centuries..

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I looked at forms of paganism many years ago, and found that many traditions, esp possessions, magic etc, are extremely similar the world over, and funnily enough victims are nearly always cured by (or seek help of) modern religion, if it exists in the vicinity.

Here is an interesting article, not for the squeamish, and is applicable to the Punjab and Punjabi people as many of these types of "Babai" still operate in India as well as in western countires like the UK - and most likely are the same people that curse, as well as provide the cure.. and thus trap their victims into life long gratitude and allegiance to their dera etc helping them to invest more in their Chandigargh property portfolio:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/sha/sss/sss03.htm

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Guest

Since we are in this topic, what you guys think of suleman? There is audio recording of him, it wasnt a case of excorism/self infiction but it was defainately something extraordinary for people to see someone else is speaking from your body, all of sudden your face expression and vocal chord changes.

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Dancing Warrior,

My initial comments were not directly to you per se, however I retract this statement, as you (like Karmjeet and Wahegurubol) feel it is acceptable to take a well-defined term and use it loosely and/or even re-define it (without indicating that you are doing this) and think that this is perfectly acceptable in terms of:

(a) use of language

(B) form of communication

© validation of your views

All my courses this semester involve Historical studies, and just after 1 week of attending these classes I have realized how I have to weigh things on an intellectual or scholarly level, and there are so many factors that have to be considered while writing an academic paper. Its just maddening lol I am definitely gonna need you lol

Now I get what have you been trying to say all along.

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