Shastar Vidiya Website Gets A Sticky On Sikhsangat

[SURYADEV]

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Edited September 10, 2011 by SURYADEV

[chatanga1]

OK fair enough, but can you not see the wording in the form of nindiya insults or accusations either or is that, not what he "actually" means as well?

yes i can see his insults or his views very clearly. but i cant see what you wrote that he, KGM said that Nihangs were responsible for operation bluestar.

Whether or not he means it, he "actually" has not written it. When and if he should write it, then we can discuss it, but why put words in his mouth.

[Satgyan-pujari]

yes i can see his insults or his views very clearly. but i cant see what you wrote that he, KGM said that Nihangs were responsible for operation bluestar.

Whether or not he means it, he "actually" has not written it. When and if he should write it, then we can discuss it, but why put words in his mouth.

You continue to state, what i keep refuting, again i NEVER once mention KGM stated Nihangs were resposible for bluestar, i have re-iterated this on a number of occasions due to your mis-interpretation. Again i said he APPORTIONED BLAME, re- incidents surrounding 1984 attack on Darbar Sahib.

Please stop mis-quoting my post and "putting words into my mouth", especially as i have continually clarified the stance of my post.

Oh, and maybe as you seem to have seen his "actual" insults, accusations and nindya of present day Nihangs, did you not seem fit to ask him to be "big enough" to accept his errors?

I have highlighted my interpretation clearly (again), so no need to keep going round in circles.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Satgyan-pujari

[chatanga1]

Blaming Nihang Singhs and Niddar Singh of the attack on Darbar Sahib 84, is the new low these people are prepared to stoop.

i have bolded what you posted earlier. There is only 1 way this sentence can be taken.

[SURYADEV]

i'll let you guys in on a secret.

It was the smurfs who are to blame for op Blue Star.

Dont you guys get it, 'Op BLUE Star' .....blue coloured smurfs???!!!!

Biiig Dastar on their heads.....easy to mistake for a nihangs dummala......hence KGM blaming nihangs for '84.

This stuff is bigger than us people. Just be careful, a word to the wise!

[Satgyan-pujari]

i have bolded what you posted earlier. There is only 1 way this sentence can be taken.

Then maybe you can see all subsequent emails in the same light and boldness, to clarify exactly what was meant by this statement .You seem to have "read to much into it" and "put words into my mouth".

Just because YOU, "can only take this sentence in 1 way", and add your mis-interpretation of it even though i have tirelessly tried to explain my stance, is your shortcoming.

Now stop going round in circles, accept KGM was out of line in his accusations, insults and nindiya aimed at all present day Nihangs and move on.

I don't know why you narrow mindedly attempt to divert attention from that provocative and blatantly insulting post by KGM, and continually try to defend and support that derogatory post.

Again and please note-

... You continue to state, what i keep refuting, again i NEVER once mention KGM stated Nihangs were resposible for bluestar, i have re-iterated this on a number of occasions due to your mis-interpretation. Again i said he APPORTIONED BLAME, re- incidents surrounding 1984 attack on Darbar Sahib.

[ipledgeblue]

no point in stick up for rude people like KGM, no sanskars on him

[Guest zulu]

Who's da maynnnnnnnnnnn!

Edited September 16, 2011 by zulu

[Guest zulu]

Anyway, to be honest the people who bring up topics about Niddar Singh and claiming all sorts of things do more naam jaap on his name than any of us Akhareh bundeh do! and that's true, you are the ones who contribute hugely to the publicity, I'm sure if you stopped than Niddar Singh and the Akhara would just be...

Just my view.

Edited September 17, 2011 by zulu

[Matheen]

The only evidence they always offer is some Baba or other whose guppan were recorded by some n.ang usually sometime in 1999.

The funniest bit is when you meet the people they allegedly recorded and they flat out contradict what is on the site. No such thing as bad publicity.......

Edited September 17, 2011 by Matheen

[Maha Singh]

I have these audios which have been transcripted, they are not made up. So either Matheen has never met these babas or the babas cant be bothered to play politics and rock the boat.

These audios which have been made will soon be availiable on the net.

By interest Matheen, which of the babas have you met?

[Matheen]

I have these audios which have been transcripted, they are not made up. So either Matheen has never met these babas or the babas cant be bothered to play politics and rock the boat.

These audios which have been made will soon be availiable on the net.

By interest Matheen, which of the babas have you met?

There are some quotes attributed to Gyani Gurdev Singh Ji which he says he didn't make. A few others as well - went to the trouble of finding some of the Babas some years ago(when these things mattered to me) during trips to Raqba etc and they said the same. Will make a list when I have the time/inclination, but to be honest, I've realised we have bigger things to worry about.

Do the sites still state that Bhai Niddar Singh is Jathedar of Buddha Dal in the UK and does Niddar Singh still say he has no control over the site content?

[Satgyan-pujari]

There are some quotes attributed to Gyani Gurdev Singh Ji which he says he didn't make. A few others as well - went to the trouble of finding some of the Babas some years ago(when these things mattered to me) during trips to Raqba etc and they said the same. Will make a list when I have the time/inclination, but to be honest, I've realised we have bigger things to worry about.

Do the sites still state that Bhai Niddar Singh is Jathedar of Buddha Dal in the UK and does Niddar Singh still say he has no control over the site content?

Matheen ji, do you also have audio recordings of these Baba's saying what you state?

If you don't and MahaSingh ji does, then maybe you should have made such recordings to prove your claims.

If you want to know the questions you ask at the end, maybe you should go and see Niddar Singh personally and put them to him.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Satgyan-pujari

[tonyhp32]

Matheen ji, do you also have audio recordings of these Baba's saying what you state?

If you don't and MahaSingh ji does, then maybe you should have made such recordings to prove your claims.

If you want to know the questions you ask at the end, maybe you should go and see Niddar Singh personally and put them to him.

There's no doubt that if Matheen produced these tape recordings, the Nangs will claim either that they are fakes or that these Babay are making counter statements as they do not want to 'rock the boat'. This kind of denial is a trait in all cults. Once people have brought the guppan hook like and sinker then they are loathe to use their common sense. A good example of this is the way you, Satgyan-Pujari ( you are a pujari of something but it certainly isn't satgyan!) cannot accept that you have been caught out LYING about the views of KGM.

Blaming Nihang Singhs and Niddar Singh of the attack on Darbar Sahib 84, is the new low these people are prepared to stoop.

Your explanation that the above does not BLAME NIHANGS AND NIDDAR FOR BLUESTAR is -;

... You continue to state, what i keep refuting, again i NEVER once mention KGM stated Nihangs were resposible for bluestar, i have re-iterated this on a number of occasions due to your mis-interpretation. Again i said he APPORTIONED BLAME, re- incidents surrounding 1984 attack on Darbar Sahib.

What a joke!

Edited September 18, 2011 by tonyhp32

[Xylitol]

Matheen ji, do you also have audio recordings of these Baba's saying what you state?

If you don't and MahaSingh ji does, then maybe you should have made such recordings to prove your claims.

If you want to know the questions you ask at the end, maybe you should go and see Niddar Singh personally and put them to him.

nonexistent recordings from a group of people caught lying again and again don't amount to much.

[Guest zulu]

You guys realize, I go to Niddar Singhs akhara, will I be purged? just like during Stalin's years?

[Maha Singh]

nonexistent recordings from a group of people caught lying again and again don't amount to much.

When someone says they have the recordings, you state without any proof that they are non-existent. If I put the recordings up here, then would I be a liar?

[Matheen]

Matheen ji, do you also have audio recordings of these Baba's saying what you state?

If you don't and MahaSingh ji does, then maybe you should have made such recordings to prove your claims.

Pujari ji, I didn't make any recordings but people like Gyani Gurdev Singh Ji are easy enough to get in touch with in Southall, so things can easily be verified.

As far as general Nihang beliefs vs Niddar Singh's beliefs are concerned, again Baba Surjeet Singh Ji and Baba Joginder Singh Ji can be easily contacted to set things straight. Infact, one of Niddar SIngh Ji's ex-students did post some recordings of Buddha Dal Mahapurkhs that refuted most of the claims made on the sites in question - think it was Kamalroop Singh, but it's been a long time.

If MahaSingh ji has the recordings, then he should put them up.

If you want to know the questions you ask at the end, maybe you should go and see Niddar Singh personally and put them to him.

They are directed towards the webmaster of his sites. I've actually asked Niddar Singh about this before, now I'm 4000 miles away so it's not that easy.

Controversy sells.

P.S. Anyone know who first brought doubts about Sikhi into the minds of Harjit Lakhan, Bini, Kam etc?

[Matheen]

You guys realize, I go to Niddar Singhs akhara, will I be purged? just like during Stalin's years?

Exorcised maybe, lol.

Nah, the problem is with a few people who take pleasure in twisting facts etc and presenting false as truth. The Shastar Vidiya is actually quite good.

'tis a great tamasha this world - some things are not what they seem.

[Satgyan-pujari]

There's no doubt that if Matheen produced these tape recordings, the Nangs will claim either that they are fakes or that these Babay are making counter statements as they do not want to 'rock the boat'. This kind of denial is a trait in all cults. Once people have brought the guppan hook like and sinker then they are loathe to use their common sense. A good example of this is the way you, Satgyan-Pujari ( you are a pujari of something but it certainly isn't satgyan!) cannot accept that you have been caught out LYING about the views of KGM.

Your explanation that the above does not BLAME NIHANGS AND NIDDAR FOR BLUESTAR is -;

What a joke!

No my freind you are the joke, for you continue to divert attention from your mate KGM's blatant nindiya filled insulting post, by insisting to interpret my post into words and imaginations of your own.

If my first post wasn't clear enough then the effort to explain in subsequent posts should have been pretty clear, but obviously you don't want to accept my clarification,but are intent on wanting to defend KGM by insulting me.

The only one blatantly LYING is YOU, as in post #45 you actually admit that i never mentioned "bluestar" once. Stop your false accusations, accept your mistake and get your mate to defend himself.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Satgyan-pujari

[tonyhp32]

Blaming Nihang Singhs and Niddar Singh of the attack on Darbar Sahib 84, is the new low these people are prepared to stoop.

The only one blatantly LYING is YOU, as in post #45 you actually admit that i never mentioned "bluestar" once. Stop your false accusations, accept your mistake and get your mate to defend himself.

Attack on Darbar Sahib in 1984 = Operation Bluestar

You've been caught out Koorgyan-Pujari!

[SURYADEV]

now ,now children ... stop acting like old women.

[Satgyan-pujari]

Let me remind you of KGM's post,

...you lost your role as a Ladli Fauj in 1984!!..When you abandoned the Kaum in their time of need....it will take decades or even more before you are forgiven for this betrayal!!...the blood of our Kharkoo Shaheeds is also on your hands!!....the Nangs moan why the present Nihangs have such a bad reputation amongst the Sikh Nation...they say they are misunderstood...Your not!!...your present situation is well deserved!....

Serious accusations, open to interpretation don't you think?

Attack on Darbar Sahib in 1984 = Operation Bluestar

You've been caught out Koorgyan-Pujari!

No, tonyhp32 or is it KGM you've been caught out, stop lying and insulting and accept your mistakes. Your accusations are getting boring already.

Kindly read the subsequent emails, in which i try to explain my position and your or your mates rude and derogatory post. If you do not wish to accept the clarification of my first post that is your own shortcomming, grow up.

You do nothing but make yourself look silly and narrow minded by defending a post that is clearly full of nindiya, and continue to add more nindiya and insults in your defence of it.

Now let the thread continue ie Shaster Vidya Website, and stop your nonsense!

Edited September 19, 2011 by Satgyan-pujari

[Satgyan-pujari]

Ok, i am going to compromise and concede that my initial post,

"...Blaming Nihang Singhs and Niddar Singh of the attack on Darbar Sahib 84, is the new low these people are prepared to stoop".

was open to interpretation, and the views of especially Chatanga1 and followed up by Tonyhp32 were valid in their criticism. However this was not the thought i was intending to convey and the subsequent posts were what i was trying to articulate.

"... You continue to state, what i keep refuting, again i NEVER once mention KGM stated Nihangs were resposible for bluestar, i have re-iterated this on a number of occasions due to your mis-interpretation. Again i said he APPORTIONED BLAME, re- incidents surrounding 1984 attack on Darbar Sahib."

I apologize if i have offended anyone during the defence of my initial quote.

This of course still means that i believe KGM was wrong in the way he made accusations and put blame at the door of Nihangs in an insulting and degrading way. I feel he should retract those comments or offer a fuller explanation of his views.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Satgyan-pujari

[tonyhp32]

If you had just accepted that you were misquoting KGM then there was no need to have gone through all of that.

...you lost your role as a Ladli Fauj in 1984!!..When you abandoned the Kaum in their time of need....it will take decades or even more before you are forgiven for this betrayal!!...the blood of our Kharkoo Shaheeds is also on your hands!!....the Nangs moan why the present Nihangs have such a bad reputation amongst the Sikh Nation...they say they are misunderstood...Your not!!...your present situation is well deserved!....

That above quote from KGM pretty much sums up when most Sikhs think of Nihangs. Just because you place them on some pedestal doesn't mean the rest of the Sikhs do. Did the Nihangs under Santa Singh not betray the Sikhs in 1984? You can spin the events of 1984 all you like but the cold hard fact is that he sided with Indira Gandhi against the Sikhs. You can go through life wearing blinkers with regard to this issue but acting like one of the three wise monkeys wont change the facts.