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Suraj Prakash Text Regarding Muslay Balatkaars

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NOTE: This thread was renamed to be a bit more sensitive about the subject.

This brief extract from Bhai Santokh Singh’s Suraj Prakash (quoted in Ganda Singh’s Sri Gur Sobha) purports to be Dasmesh Pita’s response to queries regarding reprisals in kind, for the rape of Sikh women by Moghuls. Can we try a group consensus type translation folks? I’ve listed some of the words I found more difficult to understand below and offered definitions, but these are by no means carved in stone! It may help if people to have a look at the attachment I posted which gives definitions of some of the words from MK.

Please contribute, especially ‘first language Panjabi’ speakers <ahem....ahem.....Mithar and Lal Singh>:

ਜੋ ਤੁਰਕਣਿ ਸਿਖ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਜਾਇ -

ਸੋ ਨਹਿ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਓ ਜਾਇ ਕਦਾਇ....॥ 16 ॥

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਪਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈ।

ਯਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਲ ਮਲ ਕਰਨ ਹਟਾਵੈ॥19॥

It would be interesting to find the missing bits of the text around the first piece of the extract (the bit that goes ....ਸੋ ਨਹਿ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਓ ਜਾਇ ਕਦਾਇ....॥ 16 ॥, anybody????

post-3203-0-29593600-1318018209_thumb.pn

Edited by dalsingh101

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Seriously?

No one wants to help get it translated? lol

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ਜੋ ਤੁਰਕਣਿ ਸਿਖ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਜਾਇ -

ਸੋ ਨਹਿ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਓ ਜਾਇ ਕਦਾਇ....॥ 16 ॥

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਪਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈ।

ਯਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਲ ਮਲ ਕਰਨ ਹਟਾਵੈ॥19॥

If a Sikh have sex (rape) with a Turkan (Sulli),

he won't be forgiven ever.....

Singhs understand character and eating habits as good deeds.

(Group of) Turks have sex (or rape) with Indian women.

Sikh take revenge showing goodwill.

Won't let Maya cause a moral downfall.

( don't know what is ਯਾਂ) would stop bad deed by force.

This is rough translation. This is ancient Punjabi. I could be wrong. I don't think anybody with modern Punjabi as first language can understand this.

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If a Sikh have sex (rape) with a Turkan (Sulli),

he won't be forgiven ever.....

Singhs understand character and eating habits as good deeds.

(Group of) Turks have sex (or rape) with Indian women.

Sikh take revenge showing goodwill.

Won't let Maya cause a moral downfall.

( don't know what is ਯਾਂ) would stop bad deed by force.

This is rough translation. This is ancient Punjabi. I could be wrong. I don't think anybody with modern Punjabi as first language can understand this.

Could ਯਾਂ mean then? I think a similar word is used in Dasam granth?

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So this was the instruction? Not to rape a sulli.

Does it really matter what were the instructions? Does it really make a difference what religion says?

Sikhs were not much different than Sullas in '47. Yes, they didn't start, but answer was fitting (according to this papi), but not according to Guru's instructions.

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Thanks for the tips guys. Just rechecked the OP and realised that I somehow missed out a bunch of lines in the quote. Sorry and doh!

Here's the full thing:

ਜੋ ਤੁਰਕਣਿ ਸਿਖ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਜਾਇ ।

ਸੋ ਨਹਿ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਓ ਜਾਇ ਕਦਾਇ....॥ 13 ॥

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਕਿਉਂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਰਜ ਹਟਾਏ॥18॥

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੋਲੇ ਤਿਸ ਬੇਰੇ।

ਹਮ ਲੇ ਜਾਨੋਂ ਪੰਥ ਉਚੇਰੇ।

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਪਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈ ।

ਯਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਲ ਮਲ ਕਰਨ ਹਟਾਵੇ॥

My stab at translating:

ਜੋ ਤੁਰਕਣਿ ਸਿਖ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਜਾਇ ।

ਸੋ ਨਹਿ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਓ ਜਾਇ ਕਦਾਇ....॥ 13 ॥

Whatever Sikh ravishes a sulli

That Sikh is never given blessings

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

Singhs understand that the Khans consider it to be meritorious

[As] all of the sullay ravish Indian women

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਕਿਉਂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਰਜ ਹਟਾਏ॥18॥

The Sikhs recognise the extraction of revenge to be a good [thing]

So why does the Guru's teachings prohibit this?

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੋਲੇ ਤਿਸ ਬੇਰੇ।

ਹਮ ਲੇ ਜਾਨੋਂ ਪੰਥ ਉਚੇਰੇ।

Listen to the Satguru speak on this matter

I have recognised this way of life [Khalsa/Sikh] as an exalted one

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਪਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈ ।

ਯਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਲ ਮਲ ਕਰਨ ਹਟਾਵੇ॥

I do not [condone] lowly behaviour within it (?? what does ਪੁਚਾਵੈ mean?)

That it why I have prevented ਕਲ ਮਲ (??? what does ਕਲ ਮਲ mean?)

Might be a while before I get back online to check feedback, but I will definitely be interested in getting to the bottom of this text, so your comments are appreciated.

Edited by dalsingh101

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Could ਯਾਂ mean then? I think a similar word is used in Dasam granth?

I took it to be as in the modern ਤਾਂ or ਤਾਂਹੀਂ - as in 'that is why'

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Found out what 'ਕਲ ਮਲ' means.

ਪਾਪਾਂ ਦੀ ਮੈਲ, ਗੰਦਗੀ, ਬੁਰਾਈ, ਕਾਲਖ, ਬਦਫੈਲੀ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਕਲਿਮਲ ਡਾਰਨ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਧਾਰਨ ਇਹ ਆਸਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਤਰਨਾ॥ {ਦੇਵ ੫, ੧੬, ੧*:੨ (531)}।

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਸੰ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਪਾਪ. ਦੋਸ. "ਕਲਿਮਲ ਡਾਰਨ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਧਾਰਨ". (ਦੇਵ ਮਃ ੫).

-------------------------------------------------------

Still can't figure out what ਪੁਚਾਵੈ means though??

Could it be a variant of ਪਚਾਵਣ as defined below?

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਕ੍ਰਿ- ਰਿੰਨ੍ਹਣਾ. ਗਾਲਣਾ। (2) ਨਾਸ਼ ਕਰਨਾ. ਭਾਵ- ਜਿੱਤਣਾ. "ਪੰਚ ਦੂਤ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਚਾਵਣਿਆ". (ਮਾਝ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੩)। (3) ਹਜਮ ਕਰਨਾ.

So we have to (1) ਰਿੰਨ੍ਹਣਾ - boil or decoct (2) ਗਾਲਣਾ - To melt, to decompose, to smelt, m t dissolve, to ruin, to decay, to spoil, to waste, to sink.

???

Also I find this line hard to understand?

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

------------------------------

Another attempt:

ਜੋ ਤੁਰਕਣਿ ਸਿਖ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਜਾਇ ।

ਸੋ ਨਹਿ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਓ ਜਾਇ ਕਦਾਇ....॥ 13 ॥

Whatever Sikh ravishes a sulli

Is never given blessings

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

Singhs understand that the Khans consider it to be meritorious

[As] hordes of the sullay rape Indian women

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਕਿਉਂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਰਜ ਹਟਾਏ॥18॥

The Sikhs recognise the extraction of revenge to be a good [thing]

So why does the Guru's teachings prohibit this?

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੋਲੇ ਤਿਸ ਬੇਰੇ।

ਹਮ ਲੇ ਜਾਨੋਂ ਪੰਥ ਉਚੇਰੇ।

Listen to the Satguru speak on this matter

I have recognised this way of life [Khalsa/Sikh] as an exalted one

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਪਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈ ।

ਯਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਲ ਮਲ ਕਰਨ ਹਟਾਵੇ॥

Without corruption within it

That it why I have prevented the doing of such sins

Feedback???

Edited by dalsingh101

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If you read whole shabad, you would get the meanings.

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਕਿਉਂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਰਜ ਹਟਾਏ॥18॥

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੋਲੇ ਤਿਸ ਬੇਰੇ।

ਹਮ ਲੇ ਜਾਨੋਂ ਪੰਥ ਉਚੇਰੇ।

In first 4 lines, Singhs ask why they can't do good by raping sullis in retaliation to Turks raping Hinduanis.

Satguru answers in next lines.

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#

Still can't figure out what ਪੁਚਾਵੈ means though??

ਪੁਚਾਵੈ i think means to arrive at or turn into, with the line:

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਪਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈ ।

meaning dont want good standing/morals to turn poisonous. Bikh is a word for poison. may be wrong.

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ਪੁਚਾਵੈ i think means to arrive at or turn into, with the line:

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਪਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈ ।

meaning dont want good standing/morals to turn poisonous. Bikh is a word for poison. may be wrong.

I thought that too bro! But when I looked into it ਬਿਖੈ is actually an old form of vich or inside also (see below). If we could get a solid translation for ਪੁਚਾਵੈ it would help big time. However when I checked a few instances of the use of ਬਿਖੈ in Suraj Prakash, it was always as in 'inside', so for the moment we'll stick to that, but it could well be referring to poison?

(1) ਵਿਸ਼ੇ। (2) ਵਿਚ, ਅੰਦਰ। (3) ਜ਼ਹਿਰ ਵਰਗੀ ਕੌੜੀ। (4) ਵਿਸ਼ੱਈ। (5) ਮਾਇਆ। (6) ਜ਼ਹਿਰੀਲੀ। (7) ਵਿਕਾਰ, ਔਗੁਣ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਭਗਤ ਜਨ ਸੇਵਕ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਖੈ ਅਧਾਰਾ॥ {ਦੇਵ ੫, ੨੦, ੨:੧ (532)}। ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮੇਰੇ ਬਿਖੈ ਹੰਤ॥ {ਮਾਲੀ ੫, ੪, ੩:੪ (987)}। ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹੈ ਸੋ ਬਿਖੈ ਸਮਾਨੈ॥ {ਗਉ ੫, ੮੨,

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary

1. var. 2. indecl. 1. from Bikha. 2. in, within

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਸੰ. ਵਿਸਯ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਦ੍ਵਾਰਾ ਗ੍ਰਹਣ ਯੋਗ੍ਯ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਸਪਰਸ਼ ਆਦਿ. "ਬਿਖੈਬਿਲਾਸ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ". (ਟੋਢੀ ਮਃ ੫) "ਬਿਖੈ ਬਾਚੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਚੁ ਸਮਝੁ ਮਨ ਬਉਰਾ ਰੇ!" (ਗਉ ਕਬੀਰ)। (2) ਪਦਾਰਥ. ਭੋਗ ਦੀ ਵਸਤੁ. "ਬਿਖੈ ਬਿਖੈ ਕੀ ਬਾਸਨਾ ਤਜੀਅ ਨਹਿ ਜਾਈ". (ਬਿਲਾ ਕਬੀਰ)। (3) ਕ੍ਰਿ. ਵਿ- ਅੰਦਰ. ਭੀਤਰ. ਵਿੱਚ. "ਜਲ ਤੇ ਉਪਜ ਤਰੰਗ ਜਿਉ ਜਲ ਹੀ ਬਿਖੈ ਸਮਾਹਿ". (ਵਿਚਿਤ੍ਰ).

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I found the complete text in the online Suraj Prakash at ik13.com. I love that those guys have posted PDF Mahan Kosh and SPG, but you can't simply copy and paste Gurmukhi text from them as they come out as Chinese characters! Even trying to convert them to unicode doesn't help. Searching is pretty difficult to. Oh well, still, mustn't grumble.

Anyway, I had to type it out. What we find is that (probably not too surprisingly) Ganda Singh seems to have sort of whitewashed some of the original context of the text that I posted above (from his edition of Sainapati's Gursobha). I'm not surprised at such stuff any more, and sort of half expect it from Singh Sabha exponents (remember the thread about Bhai Vir Singh's editing of Panth Prakash). Of historical interest would be the way the text seems to preserve the original bujjar kureit against sang with sullian - if the text is anything to go by, bhog with nonMuslian appear to be considered a lesser offense? Seeing as the SIngh Sabha lehar was to alter the bujjer kureit against physical relations with sulliah to one that encompassed all contact outside of marriage with the publication of the Rehat Maryada, it's no surprise that Prof. Ganda Singh didn't fully quote the text in Gursobha.

The sakhi from SPG is very interesting. We can trace it's movement and development a bit. It starts of as the small sakhi in dasmesh pita's contemporary Sewa Das's 'Parchian', in the form of the Sakhi of the brother who came wailing into Guru ji's darbar after having been captured by sullay and forcibly had his kesh cut, and was fed Muslim meat and circumcised (ouch!) etc. Then he is reassured that he hasn't been made a sullah because he refrained from willingly having sex with a sulli etc. etc. In parchian the Sakhi is pretty short. It next seems to appear in the infamous 'Sau Sakhi' around the middle of the 1800s. Here it's significantly elaborated upon and extra dialog appears which give more detail about why physical relations with a 'Turkni' are so seriously prohibited, with the passage where Singhs ask about retaliating to sullah balathkaars in kind.

Then it appears in Suraj Prakash Granth which was also apparently composed by the mid 1800s by the famous Santokh Singh but really became known amongst the Sikh masses after Bhai Vir Singh published his annotated edition between 1927-35.

Judging by Attar Singh's English translation of Sau Sakhi (published in 1873), the texts in the Sau Sakhi and SPG appear to be identical or verbatim.

Anyway here's my attempt at translation, you can compare to Attar Singh's earlier version through the scribd link below (its sakhi 32 on pg. 66). Attar Singh was obviously highly intelligent and a very competent linguist by the looks of things. He seems to have mastered the English language. Constructive feedback welcome as always.

Original text from SPG:

ਮਮ ਸਿਖ ਤੁਰਕਣਿ ਸੰਗ ਨ ਕਰੈ।

ਏਕ ਬਾਰ ਹੀ ਭੋਗੈ ਕੋਇ।

ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਸੋ ਤਤਛਿਨ ਹੋਇ।

ਜੋ ਨਰ ਹਿੰਦੁ ਧਰਮ ਕੋ ਧਰੈ।

ਬਚੈ ਤੁਰਕਣੀ ਤੇ ਸੋ ਤਰੈ।

ਜੋ ਪਰ ਨਾਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਪਛੁਤਾਵੈ।

ਕੁਛ ਪ੍ਰਾਸ਼ਚਿਤ ਅਘ ਹਿਤ ਕਰਿਵਾਵ ॥15॥

ਕੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਿੱਖਨ ਤੇ ਬਖਸ਼ਾਵੈ।

ਸੋ ਸਿਖ ਅਘ ਤੇ ਬਖਸ਼ਯੋ ਜਾਵੈ।

ਜੋ ਤੁਰਕਨਿ ਸਿਖ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਜਾਇ।

ਸੋ ਨਹਿਂ ਬਖਸ਼ਯੋ ਜਾਇ ਕਦਾਇ ॥16॥

ਪਾਕੋ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਹ੍ਵ੍ਵੈ ਸੋਇ।

ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਅਜਾਨ ਜਿ ਭੂਲੈ ਕੋਇ।

ਮਿਲਿ ਤੁਰਕਨਿ ਸੰਗ ਸਿਖ ਬਨ ਜਾਇ।

ਸੋ ਭੀ ਛੂਟ ਜਾਇ ਗੁਰ ਧਯਾਇ ॥17॥

ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਘਨਿ ਬੂਝੇ ਗੁਨ ਖਾਨੀ।

ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦ ਤੁਰਕ ਭੋਗੈਂ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਨੀ।

ਸਿਖ ਬਦਲਾ ਲੇ ਭਲਾ ਜਨਾਏ।

ਕਯੋਂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਰਜ ਹਟਾਏ? ॥18॥

ਸੁਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੋਲੇ ਤਿਸ ਬੇਰੇ।

ਹਮ ਲੇ ਜਾਨੋ ਪੰਥ ਉਚੇਰੇ।

ਨਹੀਂ ਅਧੋਗਤਿ ਬਿਖੈ ਪੁਚਾਵੈਂ।

ਯਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਲਮਲ ਕਰਨ ਹਟਾਵੈਂ ॥19॥

ਪੰਥ ਭੂਤਨਾ ਕੋ ਹੈ ਜੋਈ।

ਲਿਯੇ ਸੰਭਾਲ ਮੁਹੰਮਦ ਸੋਈ।

ਨਹਿਂ ਨੀਚਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਅਛੇਰੀ।

ਪਿਖਿ ਅਪਮਾਨ ਕਰਹਿਂ ਸਭਿ ਬੇਰੀ ॥20॥

Translation:

A Sikh of mine should not have (physical) relations with a Turkni. If one has (such) sex even on a single occasion, he will become a Muslim at that very instant. The man who adopts the Hindu faith should be wary of Turknis, remaining aloof from them. That man who regrets having sexual relationships with a woman that was not his own and performs some penance for his sin, (15) the Guru will be benevolent towards that Sikh, and he will be pardoned for his sin. The Sikh who enjoys a Turkni will never be forgiven. (16) That person will become a thorough Muslim. If someone has previously had physical relationships with a Turkni in ignorance, and later becomes a Sikh, they will also be pardoned by the Guru. (17)

Then the Singhs comprehended the character of the Khans. Turks hordes were ravishing Indian women. If the Sikhs took revenge [by raping in retaliation] it should be recognised as good. Why does the Guru’s instruction (note: ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ implies a written code of conduct i.e. a rahitnama) prevent them [from doing this]? (18)

Listen to what the Guru said on this matter:

I have recognised this [Khalsa] path as an exalted one. Without base degradation assimilated within.That is why I prevent you from committing [such] sins. (19) That path which adopts Mohhamad, is one of demons.The ways of those lowly ones are not good.Observe how they commit outrages at every opportunity. (20)

See Attar Singh's version here. It's in sakhi 32 on pg. 66.

Edited by dalsingh101

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Copulating with Turknis was discouraged because they were our main enemies, its their women that would fall in our hands (and tempt us to do something wrong, in retaliation for all they did).

Extra-marital relations are forbidden period.

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LOL

you are right. such filthy manmaty thoughts HSD1. no wonder we haven't got khalistan yet.

Much better thought....someone else is your wife!!!!!

;)

I know right? Someone should set up the NRPunjabi Police Force Thought Squad to specifically hunt down perpetrators of this heinous crime. Selling the rights to a tv show would also raise money for my retirement fund from the force.

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Lol, we were just pulling your leg SikhKhoj. I dont even like Turkish girls - they're into too much weird stuff. Give me a long legged Punjabi Muslimah anyday! :D

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