What You Guys Reading These Days?

[dalsingh101]

I'm slowing going through a book called:

Western perspective on the Sikh religion by Darshan Singh

Is very interesting, narrates the overall conceptions westerners have had of Sikhi/Sikhs from the earliest accounts to Mcleod.

What you guys reading?

Doesn't have to be religion/Sikh related btw!!

Please share.

[dalsingh101]

Also picked up Simon Singh's - The big bang.

[DSG]

Reading ( dont laugh)

Bed time stories ( Guru Arjan Dev ji)

Bed time stories ( Guru Tegh Bahadar ji)

by Santokh Singh Jagdev

Problem I have is I cant find any books ( in English) which have "flow" about them when reading especially sikh Sakhis , ( dont know if you know of any good ones) ...they seem to start off good but then break up the flow , trying to capture the scene all goes away hence dont want to carry on reading,

[dalsingh101]

Reading ( dont laugh)

Bed time stories ( Guru Arjan Dev ji)

Bed time stories ( Guru Tegh Bahadar ji)

by Santokh Singh Jagdev

Problem I have is I cant find any books ( in English) which have "flow" about them when reading especially sikh Sakhis , ( dont know if you know of any good ones) ...they seem to start off good but then break up the flow , trying to capture the scene all goes away hence dont want to carry on reading,

!!!!!!!

I love those books by Santokh Singh!!

The Panjabi in them is absolutely perfect for my level right now (in terms of moderately comfortable reading). They aren't so easy that I feel like I'm reading kiddies stuff whilst they aren't so difficult as to make me feel like I'm undergoing a laborious grind!

Love them! Highly recommended!

I have the ones about Khalsa raj and Guru Gobind Singh ji. Used to read them at bed time. lol

[kdsingh80]

I am planning to buy Sicques, Tigers, or Thieves.Want to know if anybody has read it? Is it worth to buy or read

[dalsingh101]

kds ^^^

worth more than 5 x its weight in gold

[dalsingh101]

Picked up

Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre

&

The corner by David Simon (who wrote the US tv series The wire) and Ed Burns

What you guys reading right now?

I should add, I read Guru Gobind's autobiography by J. S. Grewal and S. S. Bal in about two days. I've been after that book for like 7/8 years (seriously!) but could never get a hold of it, even when I sent pendu relatives backhome on a mission to get it. Then I found it on the Sikhbookclub link kds posted. It's well worth the time, probably one of the best autobiographies on the subject, even though it is nearly 50 odd years old.

It's a shame that an updated edition was never published but maybe it's for the better as Grewal seems to have steadily regressed into a petty tribal mentality as he's got older.

[jaikaara]

Open Secrets: India’s Intelligence Unveiled. by Muloy Krishna dhar and First Raaj of the Sikhs by harish dhillon

[Guest]

Talks with maharishi ramana on recommendation of pal 07 veer.. It's mind blowing detail questions and answers regarding self atma-paratma.

[chatanga1]

The Fall of the Sikh Empire by Alexander Gardner.

This guy was an actual witness to the killing of Chet Singh Bajwa, and sheds light on the death of Kanwar Nau Nihal Singh, where he was also present to the leadup, but not the finale.

Edited June 20, 2013 by chatanga1

[dalsingh101]

^^

Gardener has been accused of exaggeration, so be careful.

[chatanga1]

will do.

Would you trust english writers to give a truthful pic of the british raj in india?

I am thinking of buying this book;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/8190109804/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

Its by Penderel Moon.

[dalsingh101]

Here's a review of the same book (I think):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Conquest-India-Penderel-Moon/dp/0715621696/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371912767&sr=1-3

Personally I wouldn't buy into what a whiteman would say about the subject. Especially one who is a 'sir' and thus clearly a willing, central cog of the machinery/system that caused partition (in my opinion).

But then we've got the whole issue of certain apnay looking at being colonised as some wonderful period in our history. I don't know which is worse, goray justifying their actions or apnay excusing it. Actually I do, the people amongst us who act like being 'conquered and dominated' was no big thing are unmanly, low life, slave mentality having scum.

Anyone Sikh not noticing what Sikhs had just prior to annexation in comparison to our situation subsequent to being 'annexed' (which directly lead to our current position) is plainly ignorant.

Edited June 22, 2013 by dalsingh101

[G.Kaur]

"Eating animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer,

[chatanga1]

"Eating animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer,

I havent read it, nor will do any time soon, but looking at reviews of it, is it more about the US farming industry and lack of compassion for animals, or about being vegetarian?

Here's a review of the same book (I think):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Conquest-India-Penderel-Moon/dp/0715621696/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371912767&sr=1-3

Personally I wouldn't buy into what a whiteman would say about the subject. Especially one who is a 'sir' and thus clearly a willing, central cog of the machinery/system that caused partition (in my opinion).

Understandable.

I have met a few Sikhs with this view. But mainly when it came to books about the Khalistan movement.

Take "operation bleustar, the true story" by one KS Brar. Now obviously we know he is going to write that what the army did was correct and such. But how would we know exactly what he has written without reading it. Of course we can intuitively guess it's not going to be truthful or accurate or unbiased etc. But for our own curiosity etc just to know what he has written, we read it.

I think it is may be the same with the british rule. it may be that the book could be solely about how the brits "civilised" barbarian practices of uneducated people, but until we read it we will never know.

My mentor, told me (several times), that the Guru takes us from darkness to light, but the Guru doesnt just tell us about the light, he tells us about the dark as well.

I thought it was a good analogy to apply to this situation where we might hesitate to read books written by the "enemy".

I have bought a long time ago, "the siege within" by mj akbar, and it is shockingly biased against Sikh "terrorists" and full of praise for the indian state. But until i read it, i would never have exercised my own intellect to provide reason and rebuttal to these words, if not for anyone else who happened to read the same drivel, for myself.

But i can understand how some people are reluctant to tread such waters. It is an interesting field. Maybe one for another topic.

[dalsingh101]

Understandable.

I have met a few Sikhs with this view. But mainly when it came to books about the Khalistan movement.

Take "operation bleustar, the true story" by one KS Brar. Now obviously we know he is going to write that what the army did was correct and such. But how would we know exactly what he has written without reading it. Of course we can intuitively guess it's not going to be truthful or accurate or unbiased etc. But for our own curiosity etc just to know what he has written, we read it.

I think it is may be the same with the british rule. it may be that the book could be solely about how the brits "civilised" barbarian practices of uneducated people, but until we read it we will never know.

My mentor, told me (several times), that the Guru takes us from darkness to light, but the Guru doesnt just tell us about the light, he tells us about the dark as well.

I thought it was a good analogy to apply to this situation where we might hesitate to read books written by the "enemy".

I have bought a long time ago, "the siege within" by mj akbar, and it is shockingly biased against Sikh "terrorists" and full of praise for the indian state. But until i read it, i would never have exercised my own intellect to provide reason and rebuttal to these words, if not for anyone else who happened to read the same drivel, for myself.

But i can understand how some people are reluctant to tread such waters. It is an interesting field. Maybe one for another topic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating an 'ostrich stance' towards such things. And generally I believe that people should read the broader literature on a topic. If people like me (personally) are a little guarded, it is for good reasons.

Firstly I believe that certain people plainly don't seem to have the intellectual faculties to make discerning judgments about that which they read. And when these people read biased material they are prey to fall into the agenda on offer. The dimwitted wouldn't grasp that Anglo literature in itself is heavily loaded and consciously designed to catch out the docile - just look at how many apnay buy into Aryan or Scythian theories of their origins as a plain example we could relate to Sikhs of today and yesterday.

Lately I've met a few very educated western 'historians' who've been educated to very high standards at top academic institutes. I was genuinely shocked at their outright ignorance of alternative worldviews to Anglocentric ones (i.e. Saidian Orientalism or CRT - Critical Race Theory), which speaks VOLUMES.

It's important to read books by the 'enemy', but at the same time we need to acknowledge the truth that the gullible can easily become manipulated by clever (and even not so clever) strategies employed by this very enemy to, in effect, mould and shape the readers mind for their own purpose. Our people have and do suffer from this in no small way.

[chatanga1]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating an 'ostrich stance' towards such things. And generally I believe that people should read the broader literature on a topic. If people like me (personally) are a little guarded, it is for good reasons.

People should read a broader perspective on a topic and use their own intellect to decide. But is one born guarded? Or becomes guarded because of their experiences?

I would say that as one reads more and more from a broader perspective, one can formulate their own thoughts to see what is accurate and what isnt. This then throws up the notion of being guarded. But that is a good thing, isnt it?

It's important to read books by the 'enemy', but at the same time we need to acknowledge the truth that the gullible can easily become manipulated by clever (and even not so clever) strategies employed by this very enemy to, in effect, mould and shape the readers mind for their own purpose. Our people have and do suffer from this in no small way.

Yes, although this may be an un-ending battle, it is important to stress discussion of such material or other books to counter such writings.

[chatanga1]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating an 'ostrich stance' towards such things. And generally I believe that people should read the broader literature on a topic. If people like me (personally) are a little guarded, it is for good reasons.

People should read a broader perspective on a topic and use their own intellect to decide. But is one born guarded? Or becomes guarded because of their experiences?

I would say that as one reads more and more from a broader perspective, one can formulate their own thoughts to see what is accurate and what isnt. This then throws up the notion of being guarded. But that is a good thing, isnt it?

It's important to read books by the 'enemy', but at the same time we need to acknowledge the truth that the gullible can easily become manipulated by clever (and even not so clever) strategies employed by this very enemy to, in effect, mould and shape the readers mind for their own purpose. Our people have and do suffer from this in no small way.

Yes, although this may be an un-ending battle, it is important to stress discussion of such material or other books to counter such writings.

[dalsingh101]

People should read a broader perspective on a topic and use their own intellect to decide. But is one born guarded? Or becomes guarded because of their experiences?

I would say that as one reads more and more from a broader perspective, one can formulate their own thoughts to see what is accurate and what isnt. This then throws up the notion of being guarded. But that is a good thing, isnt it?

You say this but don't seem to relate it AT ALL to recent Sikh experience, especially in relation to other communities. When we do this what do we see?

Sikh people have by and large failed to intellectually outmaneuver other people's attempt at dominating written narratives about themselves and even their past. They've even gone to the extent of buying into foreign narratives in a big way simply down to petty ego boasting narratives at the expense of any analysis of depth and even the moorings of their founders, who gave us lighthouses to steer away from such nonsense. When we juxtaposition this with the conspicuous truth of even communities that recently descended from FORMER SLAVE COLONIES (no less!) have managed to 'out think' the narratives imposed on them during their subjugation (here I refer directly to African-American literature) then we have to face the ugly fact that as a community we have serious problems in this department. Because we have been at a clear advantage to the people I just mentioned abut still haven't managed to free ourselves from the shackles of our former 'masters' narratives. Think about that. And the implications of it. What does that tell you about our communities 'intellectual prowess'?

Yes, although this may be an un-ending battle, it is important to stress discussion of such material or other books to counter such writings.

One point I'm trying to allude to is that many of our people (especially jats) seem more than happy to relegate their brains and go along with foreign narratives as long as an ego massaging narrative is included in any works. This susceptibility actually makes it dangerous for certain people to read works like the one we discussed earlier because it may plants seeds in their brains that they struggle to shake off. Seeds which are detrimental to the wider future of the Sikh community. The enemy has found a simple way to control us by appealing to our ego. That isn't to say that everyone will fall for it, but the situation right now points at large hordes doing so, with serious long term implications for the matter of 'Sikh identity'.

My own personal experience of trying to highlight the matters under discussion have been that people have brought into the foreign caste/tribal/racial narratives at such a deep level, that it appears as if attacking these ideas appears to be an attack on their own sense of identity to them.

It's a tough job. We appear to have a lot of short sighted, gullible people amongst us. Maybe a majority?

It shouldn't be a never ending battle. It needs to be a swift one. If it isn't, then it appears as if our people can't even shake off moves that even the descendants of slaves haven't fallen for. Edited June 25, 2013 by dalsingh101

[G.Kaur]

I havent read it, nor will do any time soon, but looking at reviews of it, is it more about the US farming industry and lack of compassion for animals, or about being vegetarian?

It's about both things you've mentioned above. I've only read about 100 pages and I can definitely say that if you aren't vegetarian when you start reading the book you'll definitely become one when you are half through, lol.

[dalsingh101]

G Kaur

You NEED to read that 'Bad Pharma' book I mentioned earlier, especially as you're 'in the field' so to speak.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Pharma-companies-mislead-patients/dp/0007350740/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372176002&sr=1-1&keywords=bad+pharam

[SikhKhoj]

Veggie lions don't look good now, do they? haha.

Jokes aside, it is good to read the book by the enemy but only once you are fully sure and know the victim side of the story. I remember I started reading KP Gills book when I had little to no knowledge and got impressed by his list of misdeeds done by so -called militants, only to realise later that these were mostly black cats.

So having in depth knowledge is needed before setting out to read a (propaganda) book by the enemy. Now you won't be recommending RSS booklets about Sikhi to a newcomer, would you.

[chatanga1]

I remember I started reading KP Gills book when I had little to no knowledge and got impressed by his list of misdeeds done by so -called militants, only to realise later that these were mostly black cats.

So having in depth knowledge is needed before setting out to read a (propaganda) book by the enemy. Now you won't be recommending RSS booklets about Sikhi to a newcomer, would you.

I know what you mean. i have read gills book and it is vile. but for a newcomer, to anything sikhi, we should be able to be confident enough to say, read both sides and make your mind up.

[chatanga1]

It's about both things you've mentioned above. I've only read about 100 pages and I can definitely say that if you aren't vegetarian when you start reading the book you'll definitely become one when you are half through, lol.

i have read some reviewers say the same, but is the motive of the book an attempt to make people think about how their food got to their plate, rather than say any one diet is better than another?

You may say veggie is better than meat, then vegans will come along, then organic farmers will join in. and where will it end.

What do you find the book is telling you so far? (if it is not too early in it)?

[chatanga1]

One point I'm trying to allude to is that many of our people (especially jats) seem more than happy to relegate their brains and go along with foreign narratives as long as an ego massaging narrative is included in any works. This susceptibility actually makes it dangerous for certain people to read works like the one we discussed earlier because it may plants seeds in their brains that they struggle to shake off. Seeds which are detrimental to the wider future of the Sikh community. The enemy has found a simple way to control us by appealing to our ego. That isn't to say that everyone will fall for it, but the situation right now points at large hordes doing so, with serious long term implications for the matter of 'Sikh identity'.

Im not too sure about that. The Jats werent the only ones to receive this massage.