Different Types/stages Of Naam

[Sat1176]

I was thinking about topic this morning when I came across the following pangti in SGGS on Ang 562

where Guru Arjan Dev Ji says.

God summoned me to the Mansion of His Presence, and blessed me with the Ambrosial Nectar of His Name.
mahal bulaa-i-aa parabh amrit bhoonchaa.

Which got me thinking about the different types of naam. I know about :

1) Waheguru Gurmantar Naam

2) Anhad Shabad/Naad Naam

3) Parkash Jyot Naam which we hear about in Gurbani

But what kind of Naam is that which Waheguru himself bestows upon his bhagat?

Edited February 28, 2013 by Sat1176

[BhagatSingh]

ਮਹਲਿ ਬੁਲਾਇਆ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਭੂੰਚਾ ॥

The Lord called me into his palace and there I feasted on Amrit.
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਊਚਾ ॥੪॥੧॥

Nanak says my Lord is exalted.

As I understand, "naam" means the same thing that "name" means in English. Gurmantar, anhad, shabad, parkash and jyot are not names but nouns. Waheguru is the only name you have there.

[harsharan000]

Very nice question and topic Sat Veer Jee

Actually Wahiguru or Satnam, is Anami, means nameless .... and this has to be so.

Why?

Because He is Alakh, means formless, and He is also Agam Purukh, means He is beyond reach.

There where He is, only He exists.

So if only He is one there, without any second, and there is no language to speak, because one needs mouth to say something, or to call someone. With whom do we have to comuniucate? What do we have to say or discuss with Him?

But then one may say, that is not totally correct, because we may call Him from our heart, or call on Him mentally... yes this all is possible, as long as the mind exists, which can be within the three planes where the mind operates: Physical, Astral or Causal

After that comes ParBraham region....there is no trace of maya or mind.

It is not Sach Khand, but it is just 2 steps below, and from there on, as one goes upper, finer and purer are the realms, right up to Sach Khand, the purest realm, where Sat Purukh resides.

What I perceive is that, people, not only our sikh brothers, but as well as of other religions also, tend to take that Supreme Being, with their preconcepted ideas and forms...for example sikhs think, when they reach up there, Guru Nanak and the other Gurus, with the Punj Pyares, the Saheeds, and many more good, brave and noble people, are all there to receive us ...like a huge congregation of all the people we think as good ones ..

The hindus think, their gods such as Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva, with their wives and sons and grandchildren, along with their ancestors, their sadhus, etc ... etc are going to be met, when reaching there...

The same is applied with the followers of the rest of the religions...

Due to this agyanta, people have a sense of variety, and thus are lost in brahm, and from there on starts the conflicts between all the people, each one claiming thier superiority and their truth. And because of this variety, there are wars, there is hatred, a lot of unjustice....Instead of being human beings, they are stone hearted beasts ...

It is such a pity, our Guru Sahibans while they were on the earth, tried their best to wipe off the mud from our mind and eyes(agyanta), and placed the simple truths in front of us, even left the Guru Granth Sahib for us,claiming that universal Truth as Nam or Shabad, and gave us the method to realize through Nam Simran . We can read any Ang from Guru Jee, and we shall only see these simple truths.

Some tuks as examples are as following:

Awar Kaaj tere kiteh na kam, mil Sadh Sangat bhaj kewal Nam.

Sarab rog ka aukhad Nam

Prabh ka Simran, teerath ishnan...

And many more can be mentioned.

But let us ask ourselves sincerely, how many of us do believe and follow their words. The thing is, though we profess to be devotees, we lack faith in the words of our Gurus, we take them as theory....but their words are priceless, amolak, eternal and true spiritual gems, for all the humanity.

We have limited their teachings, into 4 walls of many outer things, rituals, idol worship...etc, thus done a great unjustice to them.

Their whole purpose was to take us out from all outer things and concentrate on the only one reality within each and everyone of us, irrespective of caste, creed or class, which is Nam or Shabad.

This Nam is nowhere outside, thus it can not be given by anyone either...it is the same inside each one of us, whether one is a sinner, a saint, a robber, a sadhu, a mahatma, male or female, a hindu, a muslim, a sikh or a christian.....

Because that Nam or Shabad is a power, a highest state of Consciousness, which implies that it is also omnipresnt and omnipotent.

And this Nam is not like the genius of Aladinos lamp, that we rub it when we want something and start asking for our desires to be fulfilled, like taking away sorrows, wanting miracles, wealth, power, status, properties, sons, lands....and a huge endless list.

This Nam or Shabad as such, existed even before we were not born, and shall stay even when we shall not be here... this Nam or Shabad as being a Consciouss power of the highest order, works in its own ways, and not per our thinking, or our petty logic...

The purpose of all Gurmukhs, is not to make us understand the mysteries of the creation, not because they do not know, or are not capable of it, but because we are very limited.

For that, they say, go inside youself, and see everything it by yourself. All your doubts shall be dissolved.

And there is total logic in their words, because when we reach His stage, we shall become Him.... so then who is left to ask? and who is there to answer? Naturally nobody, except Him.

Such is His mahanta, His greatness, His wadeeayee...Oooch Apaar, Beant Soami.

The Bani clearly says: Jin Har jaapiya, se Har hoeeya

Sar Sree Akal.

Edited December 28, 2013 by harsharan000

[harsharan000]

Being this thread related to different stages of Nam as well, Sree Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj in Raag Sorath, tells us in short:

Tum Saachay, ham Tum hee raachay, Shabad bhayd fun saachay.
You are True, and I am absorbed into You; through the jugtee of the Shabad, I shall ultimately become True as well.

He is telling us that: Wahiguru is the ultimate, the highest stage of permanent and unchangeable truth.

But, through a perfect technique, namely Nam Simran, anyone can become as true and eternal like Him, by merging in Him, through that very technique, that very jugtee.

This is the mahanta, the wadeeayee of His Nam.

Wah wah Saachay Badshah, Toon Beant Apaar Soami.

Edited November 15, 2014 by harsharan000

[Guest]

Discourse given by Raj Yogi Sant baba Attar Singh Ji Reru Sahib to Sant baba isher singh ji rara sahib.

source: Babaniya Kahniya book by Sant baba waryam Singh Ji

Five state of Naam.

1. Naam Da Saroop
2. Naam Da Karan
3 Naam da Abhyaas
4. Naam Di Audhi
5. Naam Da Phaul(Fruit)


1. Naam Saroop :

There are two types of Naam Saroop - Varan Aatmak and Dhun Aatmak.

a. Varan Atamak- To Purify eyes, recite/read it using your eyes

Akhri Naam Akhri Salah || (Panna- 4 )

so example- write Vahiguroo, Satnaam, Ram on paper and read it. This is called Varan Aatmak.

b. Dhun Aatmak- Listen it with your ears. Listen to naam dhuni via ears.

Dhun Meh Dhyan Meh Janiya Gurmukh Akth Kahani || (Panna- 879)

According to Moukh Panth Parkash- Naam Da Vachaak Akhand Tat Budh(Gyan) is discussed.

According to Pantjali, naam is consider as Gyan da Saroop example- cleanse of budhi.


2. Naam Da Karan(Reason) : Fear is consider Naam Da Karan. Fear of jamdoots, hell, 84 lakh reincarnations, fear of coming in womb causing naam to reside in this being.


there are many types of fear just like example- mouse is afraid of cat, cat is afraid of dog, tiger is afraid of hunter with gun..just like that whole world is in fear.

Sagal Saamgri Daraeh Baiepi Binh Dar Karnaiee Haaraa || (Panna - 999)

3. Naam Da Abhayas: First recite with tongue then do simran through breaths(swasa) example- doing simran with coming and going breaths (inhale- Vahi and exhaling- Guru)

Jinna Sas Garas Na Visraie Har Nama Mann Mant ||

Dhan Sie Saiee Nanaka Pooran Soiii Sant ||

(panna- 319)

Jina Saas Garas Na Visraie Sai Pooraie Pardhan || (Panna - 313)

Then automatically naam simran wil start happening via Surati(Dhyaan)..one just needs to do have phurna(thought) in the surat and it will start happening.

Then one will feel like every hair(rom rom) of the body reciting vahiguroo's naam just like tongue. One will hear naam simran dhuni from rom rom

Gurmukh Rom Rom Har Dhaavaaye || (Panna- 941)

4. Naam Di Audhi- In this state one will feel that every milli inch of his creation is reciting Vahiguroo's Naam.

Animals, Birds, Earth, Sky including 5 elements of body reciting his Vahiguroo's Naam.

Farida Houu Balhari Tin Pankhiya Jungal Jinna Vas ||
Kakarh Chughan Thal Vasan Rab Na Chhudan Pass || (Panna- 1383)

Dhart Patal Akaas Hai Meri Jindaree
Sabh Har Har Naam Dhaavaye Ram ||

5. Naam Da Phaul(Fruit) - One who meditates on Naam becomes his(Naami) roop.

Har Har Jan Duii ek hai Bib Bichaar Kuch Nahi || (Panna- 273)

This is the last stage of prema bhagti marg/shabad surat marg. Bhagti starts from two- sikh and Guru, Ishvar and Bhagat and ends with only one.

Gur Chelee Ki Sandh Milaei

After this discourse..baba attar singh ji further clarified/clear on common doubt people had.

Some people wonder - is there any other need for different mantar from mahapursh once amrit given by panj pyares and Naam Mantra is given by them ?

Answer: In Gurmat, naam amrit is only one

Nanak Amrit Ek Hai Dooja Amrit Nahi ||
Nanak Amrit mannaie Maih Paiyee Gurparsad || (Panna- 1238)


Naam amrit is one. However, way of recitations is different according to state of each person...it should be only given by Mahapursh to Jagaysoo.

Just like in the hospital there are many medications ..pateint does not know which medication to take ...only doctor can recommend specific medication for specific pateint.

Rog Duor Duovaie Bujjaie Ta Vaeed Sujaan || (Panna- 148)

If within panj pyares there is one who is mahapursh and pooran abhayasi who can given jagaasoo discourses according to each state of mind and who can clear doubts(duobta) from jagasoo mind then there is no need for person to go to any other mahapursh to get one on one spiritual(atamik), naam simran discourse.

Although if panj pyares who can only give you maryada ie- keep 5 kakars, not commit certain kuraihits but not any atamik bachans( spiritual discourses) then jaagasuoo needs spiritual guidance(atamik bachans) from a mahapursh.

Note: Regardless if panj pyares have elevated to spiritual level or not. In the hazoori of Guru Maharaj they are Guru Saroop. One should not criticise them ever...Have full faith in them and take amrit from them as if you are taking amrit from Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself.

According to Gursikhi Maryada-

Mahapursh prefers that jagauasoo first takes dasam patsah da amrit before taking any kind of atamik discourse.

Gurmantar and Mool mantar is same given by Panj Pyares...it's same mantar that is been going on as parampara from Guru Maharaj time.

But ways of meditating on them (Karam, Upasana, Gyan) can be only gained by mahapursh/tatveda/tarkali/bhramgyani.


Hence, these doubts are not good that after taking amrit..why people go to mahapursh to get jaugtiya(ways) of doing naam and do atamik bachan billas ?

Everyone can take amrit phsyically in sanskar roop but gurmukh take one step forward do naam kamiya/abhyas via sangat of sant mahapursh.. why?

Reason is only because mahapursh have done naam kaamiya by infusing shabad into surat. That's why you will see mahapursh always reflect on people as sun reflect its ray.

[Guest]

 

Naam is quite deep as naam connects both sargun and nirgun aspect of vahiguroo together (see naam mehima in gurbani and also by maha kavi santokh singh ji in nanak parkash). Most of us, confine naam to outer layer of shabad which is varan atamak but naam is also dhuni-resosance of shabad which is dhun atamak and also gyan of shabad- naam gyan da saroop.

 

Here is naam in stages- three types of naam in stages , please see-attachment-

 

 

[das]

The following is from Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's Diary:

Types of Naam: There are 2 types of Naam:

1. Japa (Varan Atmak Bani/Naam): It is the Outer Sound Principle. It is also known as the language of the Pranas or the vital airs for it depends on different types of vibrations in the air. All these types of Japas give solace of varying degrees and one gets peace of mind of a temporary nature only, be­cause the various bodily chakra involved in them are of a lower order, situated below Third Eye. Varn-Atmak words pave the way to Dhun-Atmak Shabd and are thus essential aids in stilling the mind of oscillations, purging it of all impurities and rendering it capable of apprehending the Dhun-Atmak current within. The Varn-Atmak words may and do differ because of lingual differences, but the Dhun-Atmak Shabd being the Life-Principle of the spirit or soul is the same throughout. It can be further sub-divided into 4 subdivisions:
   1. Baikhri: These are labial sounds or sounds which are uttered with the aid of tongue and lips. It is when God's Name is recited with tongue and lips. It is the first technique and holds 1 unit in power.
   2. Madhma: These are guttural sounds which are produced in the throat or at the back or root of the tongue and palate. It is when God's Name is recited within the throat but without the use of tongue. This is 10 times the power of Baikhri.
   3. Pashyanti: These are sounds which originate from the heart center. It is when God's Name is recited within the heart but without the use of tongue. This is 100 times the power of Baikhri.
   4. Para: These are sounds which arise through vibrations from the navel center. It is when God's Name is recited within the navel but without the use of tongue. This is 1000 times the power of Baikhri.
2. Ajapa (Dhun Atmak Bani/Naam): This is the Eternal Sound Current reverberating endlessly in every living thing. It is an Unwritten Law and an Unspoken Language. It becomes audible, however, when a spirit rises above body-consciousness. Here one has just to listen to the all-pervading Naam or Shabd. As this Sound cannot be expressed in any symbolic form, it is ex­pressionless. It may be contacted above the sensory plane, behind the centre of the two eyebrows. Here one starts hearing Anhad Shabad. It generally referred to as Naam down to Trikuti; and below Daswan Dwar, where the causal region extends, It is called the Trigun Bani, or Sound within the regions of the three gunas. It is also described as Brahm Janjalla, the network of Brahm, the God of creation. This Trigun Bani or Brahm Janjalla is still within the domain of Kal or Dissolution and hence must disintegrate. HE is beyond Japa, Ajapa, and Anhad.

More details are posted under: http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/8

[Truthseeker]

From the very little I know, when doing simran our mind can hear sound that is not Naam.
Could someone please explain what is Trigun Bani or Brahm Janjalla? Is that referring to Poan da Shabad? If so, what is that?

How do we differentiate from Poan da Shabad and Sehaj Dhune (Naam)?

Edited November 9, 2014 by Truthseeker

[harsharan000]

From the very little I know, when doing simran our mind can hear sound that is not Naam.

Could someone please explain what is Trigun Bani or Brahm Janjalla? Is that referring to Poan da Shabad? If so, what is that?

How do we differentiate from Poan da Shabad and Sehaj Dhune (Naam)?

Dear Truthseeker,

the traigun bani or braham janjalla, is the sound which resounds ine the region of Braham, means below Parbraham, and this sound is not the real Shabad as such in Sach Khand.

This sound is stiil under the domain of mind or Kaal.

It is only by the power of Shabad Guru, that one can cross this region, by holding on to it, and reach Sach Khand.

Sat Sree Akal.

[Truthseeker]

How do we know if we are listening to real Shabad (Naam) or traigun bani, braham janjalla?

[chzS1ngh]

How do we know if we are listening to real Shabad (Naam) or traigun bani, braham janjalla?

Well ji harsharan ji said "It is only by the power of Shabad Guru, that one can cross this region, by holding on to it, and reach Sach Khand."

Is anything happening to you that could even remotely resemble what harsharan ji is describing...

Read Guru Ji's excitement, joy, wonder, amazement when Guru Ji talks about riding the waves of shabad and getting darshan of Waheguru....

if you cannot relate to those things then chances are you are not hearing the Shabad Guru...if there is any doubt in mind as to what you are experiencing then in my opinion, the wonder has yet to manifest fully...so keep going and one day you will probably 'just know'

[Lucky]

How do we know if we are listening to real Shabad (Naam) or traigun bani, braham janjalla?

Harsharan ji's post describes the answer quite well.

Let me also add that ALL the sounds and visions even, are part of the illusion...you are still in maya. it's stll trai-gun.

This doesn't mean that the naad you may be hearing and feeling is false, because this naad is still coming from that same source of sach-khand.....however, you are still wrapped in the illusion and the shabad is not fully manifest as the sehaj dhun in sach khand.

You will know when it's sehaj dhun or pure anhad bani because it will be pure para-bani coming drenched in amrit when waheguru reveals the Nijh ghar/sach-khand to you. At this stage you will see/feel/become with the Brahm jyot.....and ONLY then will you yourself be able to confirm that it is the purest, truest Anhad Bani you are hearing.

The sounds we can hear at early stages of different instruments..etc.. are all paon de shabad and related to the air/pavan. They change as you progress and so does the naad.

Initially the naad is intermittent but then gets clearer and more intense until it becomes 24hr.

In this part of the journey I think that it varies vastly for each and every one of us and according to our own gunas.

AT the same time you will get 'downloads' of knowledge, gyaan and understanding about 'Yourself''...and according to your own gunas.

We will often question to ourselves if the naad or sounds are genuine and true anhad. ... the answer is quite simple because if we are questioning, then we must surely be still be wrapped in the illusion more than being drenched in amrit rus/naam

When we experience the -brahm jyot- amrit- prakash,- anhad in it's purest and highest form in sachkhand..... only then, will you have no doubts and be able to confirm to your self. I'm sure you won't be questioning or doubting in any way.

Gurbani talks about these different levels of illusion including Gandarve Nagri, Mrig trishna, Maya Jaal...which is all part of kaal to stop and divert you. This occurs ALL the way up to the doorstep of waheguru's sacha mahal. And only until HE opens it and you get prakash are you out of kaal's boundary.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Lucky

[Truthseeker]

Sangat here is truly amazing, thank you all for the feedback.

[Sahib]

Harsharan ji's post describes the answer quite well.

Let me also add that ALL the sounds and visions even, are part of the illusion...you are still in maya. it's stll trai-gun.

This doesn't mean that the naad you may be hearing and feeling is false, because this naad is still coming from that same source of sach-khand.....however, you are still wrapped in the illusion and the shabad is not fully manifest as the sehaj dhun in sach khand.

You will know when it's sehaj dhun or pure anhad bani because it will be pure para-bani coming drenched in amrit when waheguru reveals the Nijh ghar/sach-khand to you. At this stage you will see/feel/become with the Brahm jyot.....and ONLY then will you yourself be able to confirm that it is the purest, truest Anhad Bani you are hearing.

The sounds we can hear at early stages of different instruments..etc.. are all paon de shabad and related to the air/pavan. They change as you progress and so does the naad.

Initially the naad is intermittent but then gets clearer and more intense until it becomes 24hr.

In this part of the journey I think that it varies vastly for each and every one of us and according to our own gunas.

AT the same time you will get 'downloads' of knowledge, gyaan and understanding about 'Yourself''...and according to your own gunas.

We will often question to ourselves if the naad or sounds are genuine and true anhad. ... the answer is quite simple because if we are questioning, then we must surely be still be wrapped in the illusion more than being drenched in amrit rus/naam

When we experience the -brahm jyot- amrit- prakash,- anhad in it's purest and highest form in sachkhand..... only then, will you have no doubts and be able to confirm to your self. I'm sure you won't be questioning or doubting in any way.

Gurbani talks about these different levels of illusion including Gandarve Nagri, Mrig trishna, Maya Jaal...which is all part of kaal to stop and divert you. This occurs ALL the way up to the doorstep of waheguru's sacha mahal. And only until HE opens it and you get prakash are you out of kaal's boundary.

[Sahib]

Lucky ji there was a saint named baba faqir chand..he was a far reached and used to properly explain stages of sun satlok etc..it will be of great help to you all if you make an effort to listen to him..you can find his satsang on youtube baba faqir chand

[das]

Also just for the reference, Sant Waryam Singh Ji's books are very extensive in terms of Route to Waheguru and various stages including Sounds.

[harsharan000]

ALL the sounds and visions even, are part of the illusion...you are still in maya. it's stll trai-gun.

This doesn't mean that the naad you may be hearing and feeling is false, because this naad is still coming from that same source of sach-khand.....however, you are still wrapped in the illusion and the shabad is not fully manifest as the sehaj dhun in sach khand.

You will know when it's sehaj dhun or pure anhad bani because it will be pure para-bani coming drenched in amrit when waheguru reveals the Nijh ghar/sach-khand to you. At this stage you will see/feel/become with the Brahm jyot.....and ONLY then will you yourself be able to confirm that it is the purest, truest Anhad Bani you are hearing.

The sounds we can hear at early stages of different instruments..etc.. are all paon de shabad and related to the air/pavan. They change as you progress and so does the naad.

Initially the naad is intermittent but then gets clearer and more intense until it becomes 24hr.

In this part of the journey I think that it varies vastly for each and every one of us and according to our own gunas.

AT the same time you will get 'downloads' of knowledge, gyaan and understanding about 'Yourself''...and according to your own gunas.

We will often question to ourselves if the naad or sounds are genuine and true anhad. ... the answer is quite simple because if we are questioning, then we must surely be still be wrapped in the illusion more than being drenched in amrit rus/naam

When we experience the -brahm jyot- amrit- prakash,- anhad in it's purest and highest form in sachkhand..... only then, will you have no doubts and be able to confirm to your self. I'm sure you won't be questioning or doubting in any way.

Gurbani talks about these different levels of illusion including Gandarve Nagri, Mrig trishna, Maya Jaal...which is all part of kaal to stop and divert you. This occurs ALL the way up to the doorstep of waheguru's sacha mahal. And only until HE opens it and you get prakash are you out of kaal's boundary.

Awesome. One of the most complete posts I have come through....

Congrats brother Lucky, keep up the high spirits....

Sat Sree Akal.

Edited November 15, 2014 by harsharan000

[tva prasad]

 

[Mooorakh]