Thoughts Please

[dalsingh101]

Good points DalSingh , do you mind (that is ,if you want to )sharing your experience/knowledge that helped you when reading DG ?

Thanks

Read that short book. Then we'll talk.

[Bundha]

1.By accepting Dasam Granth as the creation of Guru Gobind Singh Ji,the innocent Sikhs are knowingly/unknowingly disrespecting Guru Sahib Ji

This is untrue. Our Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but Dasam Granth is bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji so has our utmost respect. Guru Ji could have
chosen all the five amritwella banies from Guru Granth Sahib Ji but Guru Ji did not, Guru Ji chose three from Dasam Granth which is very telling.

2.This , so called Granth is full of serious blunders, even an ordinary writer would not make such serious mistakes. We believe that under a calculated conspiracy Guru Gobind Singh's name is being propogated as its author.

Blanket statements are useless.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Bundha

[Bundha]

3.After reading this Granth I found out that a large part of this is merely translations of Brahmnical scriptures.

What you have to understand is the context in which the bani was written. Guru Ji was a great scholar and the classics were from the Vedic texts, it is natural that Guru Ji would translate the texts with a sikhi slant. Also what should be remembered that the vedic texts were the exclusivity of the Brahmins they never let anyone near the scriptures hence the power stayed with the Brahmins . Guru Ji opened them up for everyone in the language of the time. All people, upper / lower class could now read them they were not the exclusive property of the Brahmins, how amazing is our Guru!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Bundha

[Bundha]

4. Its original name was Bachittar Natak ( A strange drama). At the end of each chapter its author gives his closing remarks as, " Iti Sri Bachittar Natak Granthe... Sampuran Shubhmasat".

So if the name changed over the years this does not constitute a conspiracy. Guru Granth Sahib Ji was first called Adh Granth.

Bachittar Natak transates to Wondrous Drama.

5. In the Bachittar Natak , there is nowhere the name Dasam Granth has been mentioned.

Nowhere in Guru Granth Sahib Ji does it mention Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Bundha

[Bundha]

6. To judge a given scriptures authenticity the scholars have laid down three basic rules :-
1. The content of a given scripture. When it was written. If no exact
date or year available,with some discrepancies it still can be judged.

2. Who is the author ?

3. Author's honesty and integrity.

Dasam granth fails on all these three.

The fact remains that this so called Granth consists of a mixture pf translated versions of Brahamnical scriptures suhc as ; Maarkande Puraan, Shiv
Puraan, Sri Madd Bhagwat Puraan and many more.

Guru Ji does not have to prove Himself to anyone. Who are these “scholars” infront of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?

Dasam Granth starts with ‘Sri Mukh Vaak Patshahi Dasvi’ and ends with Chaupai Sahib which gives the date and place of where it was written –

Chaoupai

Sanbhat satrah sahas bhanijai|| Aradh sahas phun teen kahijai|| Bhaadrav sudi ashtami ravi vaaraa|| Teer satuddrav granth sudhaaraa||29||

It was Bikrami Samvat 1753; This book was competed on the banks of Sutlej on Sunday, the eighth Sudi of the month of Bhadon. (29)

As stated before a large part of Dasam Granth is rewriting of ancient scriptures with a Sikhi slant, at no point is there any worship of any deity. Yes there are praises of various avtars but this is for good deeds and good character. Guru Ji even praises those dhents who fought with great courage and ferocity because of their prowess in the battlefield; this is giving due where it is deserved.

7. Bachittar Naatak , which is propogated as the life story of Guru Gobind Singh , is a small part of this bigger Granth.

It is not propagated as the life story of Guru Ji it is a part life story of Guru Ji and it does only form a small part of the Granth, I see no controversy here.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Bundha

[Bundha]

8. The Charitro Pakhyaan is nearly one third of this Granth written on 580 pages. It contains 404 vulgar stories which narrate sexual episodes preaching usage of
drugs,alcohol and other intoxicants.

People judge Guru’s bani according to their own low standards. We are all dipped in Kaam and we cannot see past it and instead of bowing down to our Gurus higher intellect we judge by our own low sordid standards. Guru Ji is never at fault, we always are, but our haumai will not let us acknowledge this. We should give thanks to our Glorious Guru who has armed us against all that life can throw at us. He who has read and understands Charitro Pakhyaan is armed against the wiles of men and women, no one can better him. Guru Ji has assisted us even in this part of our life which is normally veiled and not discussed.

We think we are so clever yet do not have the intellect to understand these stores. Most are rewriting of already existing stories with a moral slant,
most of the stories are written as conversations between a King and his minister and those who are a bit dim mistake this as if Guru Ji are writing
about Himself, this is not the case.

If you look around and think that the moral compass of people has been corrupted (think of all those attacks against our mothers and sisters in India
lately, or look at news items of sordid stories in the papers) then think again as things are going to get a lot worst, this is the age of Kalyug as you all
know. The stories do not encourage decadent attitudes; it shows what is happening and what will happen, like a mirror to our souls to show us for what we really are. These things are already starting to happen, see recently of abductions of females kept for years and abused. Females kept by fathers that have had children by them, it is happening now! Guru Ji is warning us of all these things so we as Sikhs can be aware and be on guard. How amazing is our Guru!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Bundha

[Bundha]

15. The conspirators are trying to give the same reverence to Dasam Granth as to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Whereas, no one can find any
mistakes in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, however ,this so called Dasam Granth is littered with blunders.

Again the supreme authority of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is never in question but those who want to stir controversy will keep repeating this claim. Anyone can make blanket statement ‘littered with blunders’

[Bundha]

16 On countless times the writer of this Granth advises its readers to correct his mistakes , he says , "Bhool Pari lahu lehu sudhaara"

This is sly and taken out of context. Time and again Guru Ji bows to Akaal and asks for His protection and to support Him in all endeavors and to
correct His mistakes. It is not the reader this is aimed at it is to Akaal.

[chatanga1]

"8. The Charitro Pakhyaan is nearly one third of this Granth written on 580 pages. It contains 404 vulgar stories which narrate sexual episodes preaching usage of drugs,alcohol and other intoxicants. "

Did you read that as preaching?

I read that as a warning, rather than preaching. Perhaps you can elaborate on where these practices are preached?

[SikhKhoj]

I feel using 'Nitnem' Banis as an argument for the Dasam Granth is not a sensible thing to do. Besides "oral traditions" there is no other proof of five Banis being the nitnem in 18th/19th century literature. Different sources vary from Japuji alone to Japuji Jaap or Japuji Anand.

If otherwise, please enlighten me.

[Bundha]

Bhai Jaita Ji’s name shines in Sikh history, he made a great sacrifice for the panth. In the dark days of persecution when all Hindus and Sikhs were forcibly being converted it was Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji’s ultimate sacrifice that stemmed the tide of man’s inhumanity to man. As Guru Ji’s “sees” lay separated from Guru Ji’s body at Chandni Chawk, Delhi nobody had the guts to come forward and claim them. It was with great bravery that Bhai Jaita Ji plucked up the courage and wrapped Guru Ji’s ‘sees’ and under cover of darkness and with great difficulty on the long journey took it to Guru Gobind Rai at Anandpur Sahib. From that day forward, blessed by the tenth Guru , Bhai Jaita Ji remained in Guru Ji’s service distinguishing himself as a great warrior. He fought alongside Guru Ji in many battles and was finally martyred at Chamkaur Sahib. His loyalty and devotion to Guru Ji is unquestionable. Not only was he a great warrior, but in the tradition of sant-sapahi he was also a great poet and writer.

He wrote Siri Gur Katha granth which remained hidden from the panth through the turmoil after the ascension of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Maybe this was a good thing as many a valuable writing has been lost over the centuries due to the turbulent times the Sikhs faced. Even today most of the Sikhs are unaware of its existence. Bhai Sahib wrote much more but it is believed that due to wars and persecution most of the compositions were lost. What remained stayed in the family of a Gursikh.

Luckily, what remained is perhaps the most crucial information Sikhs need today. In the document Siri Gur Katha, Bhai Sahib wrote eye witness accounts of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji’s Shaheedi, description of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, account of wars fought, and most importantly the first Amrit Sanchaar in 1699. It also highlights rehat and kurehats and some very fundamental beliefs of Gurmat which many of the Sikhs today hesitate to accept.

Here is a summary of some points highlighted by Bhai Jaita Ji:

1) There is no one equal to Guru Sahib throughout ages. Following Gurmat will bring salvation.

2) “Waheguru” is gurmantar. A Sikh should always recite this.3) Sikhs are not to lie, slander, eat tobacco, eat kuttha, smoke, drink, commit adultery, and
follow brahmanical rituals.

4) Piercing is forbidden.

5) Always remember Waheguru and be prepared to fight for Dharam.

6)Help everyone who comes to you.

7) Realize that everyone is the child of Waheguru. Reject caste system.

8) Always wear Shastars without which one is a jackal.

9) Never cut or trim hair.

10) Always greet everyone with Fateh.

11) Do not wear “Laal Sooha” and “Nasvaar” clothes.

12) Always do sangat of Gursikhs. Do not intermingle with patits.

13) Worship only Akal Purakh.

14) Always eat the food prepared by Amritdharis.

15) Accept everything as will of Waheguru.

16) Five Kakkars are Kes, Kangha, Kara, Kirpan and Kachera.

17) Always wear dastaar on the head.

Bhai Jaita Ji whose credentials are impeccable writes clearly that the prayers recited at the creation of the Khalsa were Jap Ji, Jaap Sahib, Swayia, Benti Chaupai and Anand Sahib.

[namdhari555]

Bhai Jaita Ji’s name shines in Sikh history, he made a great sacrifice for the panth. In the dark days of persecution when all Hindus and Sikhs were forcibly being converted it was Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji’s ultimate sacrifice that stemmed the tide of man’s inhumanity to man. As Guru Ji’s “sees” lay separated from Guru Ji’s body at Chandni Chawk, Delhi nobody had the guts to come forward and claim them. It was with great bravery that Bhai Jaita Ji plucked up the courage and wrapped Guru Ji’s ‘sees’ and under cover of darkness and with great difficulty on the long journey took it to Guru Gobind Rai at Anandpur Sahib. From that day forward, blessed by the tenth Guru , Bhai Jaita Ji remained in Guru Ji’s service distinguishing himself as a great warrior. He fought alongside Guru Ji in many battles and was finally martyred at Chamkaur Sahib. His loyalty and devotion to Guru Ji is unquestionable. Not only was he a great warrior, but in the tradition of sant-sapahi he was also a great poet and writer.

He wrote Siri Gur Katha granth which remained hidden from the panth through the turmoil after the ascension of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Maybe this was a good thing as many a valuable writing has been lost over the centuries due to the turbulent times the Sikhs faced. Even today most of the Sikhs are unaware of its existence. Bhai Sahib wrote much more but it is believed that due to wars and persecution most of the compositions were lost. What remained stayed in the family of a Gursikh.

Luckily, what remained is perhaps the most crucial information Sikhs need today. In the document Siri Gur Katha, Bhai Sahib wrote eye witness accounts of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji’s Shaheedi, description of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, account of wars fought, and most importantly the first Amrit Sanchaar in 1699. It also highlights rehat and kurehats and some very fundamental beliefs of Gurmat which many of the Sikhs today hesitate to accept.

Here is a summary of some points highlighted by Bhai Jaita Ji:

1) There is no one equal to Guru Sahib throughout ages. Following Gurmat will bring salvation.

2) “Waheguru” is gurmantar. A Sikh should always recite this.3) Sikhs are not to lie, slander, eat tobacco, eat kuttha, smoke, drink, commit adultery, and

follow brahmanical rituals.

4) Piercing is forbidden.

5) Always remember Waheguru and be prepared to fight for Dharam.

6)Help everyone who comes to you.

7) Realize that everyone is the child of Waheguru. Reject caste system.

8) Always wear Shastars without which one is a jackal.

9) Never cut or trim hair.

10) Always greet everyone with Fateh.

11) Do not wear “Laal Sooha” and “Nasvaar” clothes.

12) Always do sangat of Gursikhs. Do not intermingle with patits.

13) Worship only Akal Purakh.

14) Always eat the food prepared by Amritdharis.

15) Accept everything as will of Waheguru.

16) Five Kakkars are Kes, Kangha, Kara, Kirpan and Kachera.

17) Always wear dastaar on the head.

Bhai Jaita Ji whose credentials are impeccable writes clearly that the prayers recited at the creation of the Khalsa were Jap Ji, Jaap Sahib, Swayia, Benti Chaupai and Anand Sahib.

I have heard so much about this granth 'Siri Gur Katha granth' by Bhai Jaita Ji It was even used in the Dasam Granth debate can someone kindly give me a link to this granth so i can read it

[Genie Singh]

I can't seem to open the documents it says opps something went wrong. Is it possible to put it onto scribd to view or maybe a filesharing website for which you could send a link for. Or is there a way to fix the error. The error is as follows:

1. SikhAwareness Forum

• Rules of the Forum
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[#10173]

We could not find the attachment you were attempting to view.

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Edited January 25, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[Guest]

i cannot locate the files in the backend, may be op can re-upload them if he still has acess to it.