Panatheism Unrealistic?

[Genie Singh]

Alot of Muslims call sufism, sikhism and hinduism false on the grounds of their panatheistic belief system. Which is god is everywhere. But the argument is that this is unrealistic because the universe will end and god can not end. The universe had a beginning and will have an end. God however is eternal and did not have a beginning and nor will have an end. Hence allah sits in the 7th heaven on his throne and not in this universe. He observes all deeds and his majestic knowledge exists in the universe but his majestic presence isn't in the universe. How do we address this?

[Genie Singh]

How about with this:

Conservation of energy

In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, but can change form, for instance chemical energy can be converted to kinetic energy in the explosion of a stick of dynamite.

Mass–energy equivalence

In physics, mass–energy equivalence is the concept that the mass of an object or system is a measure of its energycontent. For instance, adding 25 kilowatt-hours (90 megajoules) of any form(s) of energy to any object increases its mass by 1 microgram. If you had a sensitive enough mass balance or scale, this mass increase of the object could be verified.

[PAL 07]

Religion without science is lame, science without religion is blind (Einstein)

Allah Noor Upaya, Kudrat Ke Sabh Bandeh page 1349 Kabeer

First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings

From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad?

O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.

The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||1||Pause||

Edited December 14, 2013 by PAL 07

[PAL 07]

SUKHMANI SAHIB

He Himself has staged His own drama;

|O Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1||

When there was only God the Master,

then who was called bound or liberated?

When there was only the Lord, Unfathomable and Infinite,

then who entered hell, and who entered heaven?

When God was without attributes, in absolute poise,

then where was mind and where was matter - where was Shiva and Shakti?

When He held His Own Light unto Himself,

Then who was fearless, and who was afraid?

He Himself is the Performer in His own plays;

O Nanak, the Lord Master is Unfathomable and Infinite. ||2||

When the Immortal Lord was seated at ease,

then where was birth, death and dissolution?

When there was only God, the Perfect Creator,

then who was afraid of death?

When there was only the One Lord, unmanifest and incomprehensible,

Then who was called to account by the recording scribes of the conscious and the subconscious?

When there was only the Immaculate, Incomprehensible, Unfathomable Master,

then who was emancipated, and who was held in bondage?

He Himself, in and of Himself, is the most wonderful.

O Nanak, He Himself created His Own Form. ||3||

When there was only the Immaculate Being, the Lord of beings,

there was no filth, so what was there to be washed clean?

When there was only the Pure, Formless Lord in Nirvaanaa,

then who was honored, and who was dishonored?

When there was only the Form of the Lord of the Universe,

then who was tainted by fraud and sin?

When the Embodiment of Light was immersed in His Own Light,

then who was hungry, and who was satisfied?

He is the Cause of causes, the Creator Lord.

O Nanak, the Creator is beyond calculation. ||4||

When His Glory was contained within Himself,

then who was mother, father, friend, child or sibling?

When all power and wisdom was latent within Him,

then where were the Vedas and the scriptures, and who was there to read them?

When He kept Himself, All-in-all, unto His Own Heart,

then who considered omens to be good or bad?

When He Himself was lofty, and He Himself was near at hand,

then who was called master, and who was called disciple?

.

We are wonder-struck at the wondrous wonder of the Lord.

O Nanak, He alone knows His own state. ||5||

When the Undeceiveable, Impenetrable, Inscrutable One was self-absorbed,

then who was swayed by Maya?

When He paid homage to Himself,

then the three qualities were not prevailing.

When there was only the One, the One and Only Lord God,

then who was not anxious, and who felt anxiety?

When He Himself was satisfied with Himself,

then who spoke and who listened?

He is vast and infinite, the highest of the high.

O Nanak, He alone can reach Himself. ||6||

When He Himself fashioned the visible world of the creation,

he made the world subject to the three dispositions.

Edited December 14, 2013 by PAL 07

[Genie Singh]

Religion without science is lame, science without religion is blind (Einstein)

Einstein being from a jewish background was an atheist he didn't believe in god or religion

[laalsingh]

Nirgun (without worldly virtues), Akal (beyond time), Nirankar (beyond space) and many more are His names before, during and after this Sargun(containing all virtues) pasara of His. But this pasara is transitory and pass by. Saying that Nirankar is separate from pasara and watching it happen ( some call it testing us ) from somewhere far is contradicting His Oneness. Saying that He is letting us do things away from Him ( although with His knowledge) means that there is duality.

But there is no duality.

ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਸਰਗੁਨੁ ਭੀ ਓਹੀ ॥