The British Government Helped 'free' The Harimandir In 1984?

[Singh123456777]

"Look, as a HINDU punjabi I don't really see a difference between Hindus and sikhs, and have nothing against my sikh brothers and sisters. That's the truth, take it or leave it."

This is what ekomakar fellow used to say but after read his recen posts the truth has been revealed!

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

I would like for him to have some continuous so that he can carry on reading the board and we can explore some of his ideas (god knows what our indian sikh brothers with low internet presence think). This idea of Sikhs being Hindus came from the Hindutva, Aryan Samaj right wing groups. Who feel that once Sikhs denounce their uniqueness, it's only a matter of time until they denounce their different outer appearance and embrace mainstream Hinduism. Had Sikhi truly been felt to be identical then we would have gurdwaras filled with many Hindus listening to gurbani and enjoying it's bliss.

This idea seems to have been borrowed from Muhammdens who like to use Sikhi's similarities as a conveyor belt to convert and in both instances this has worked.

LOL your post reminds me of a time when one of my relatives took amrit and went to school. The teacher, whose husband was a prominent local level politician, kept on denouncing her choice to take amrit publicly stating that why take amrit and call yourself Sikh when the kachera comes from Hanuman. My relative went home, read a book of Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji, came back and asked her 'if the Kachera is from Hanuman than why do 80 million Hindus not take amrit?' The teacher left her well alone after that.

[Jonny101]

I would like for him to have some continuous so that he can carry on reading the board and we can explore some of his ideas (god knows what our indian sikh brothers with low internet presence think). This idea of Sikhs being Hindus came from the Hindutva, Aryan Samaj right wing groups. Who feel that once Sikhs denounce their uniqueness, it's only a matter of time until they denounce their different outer appearance and embrace mainstream Hinduism. Had Sikhi truly been felt to be identical then we would have gurdwaras filled with many Hindus listening to gurbani and enjoying it's bliss.

This idea seems to have been borrowed from Muhammdens who like to use Sikhi's similarities as a conveyor belt to convert and in both instances this has worked.

Thing is, Hindutva types think Sikhs are HIndus, but from the inside they know it's not true either. If they did, they would not have declared Hindi as their language which they did just to oppose the Sikhs. With the exception of the Punjabi Hindus, No other Hindu ethnicity in all of India had oppose their own mother tongue. Punjabi Hindus did it just to oppose the Sikhs.

Sikhs had never hated Punjabi Hindus, but since 1947, Hindus began to view Sikhs as if Sikhs are Pakistanis. Any genuine demand Sikhs had like language status of Punjab being Punjabi, or Punjabi speaking areas and Chandigarh be returned to Punjab, Amritsar be given Holy City status like Banaras, it is Punjabi Hindus who always oppose this the most. This type of anti Sikh behavior on the part of Punjabi Hindus at first left Sikhs confused as to why Hindus are doing then. Then Nirankari clash of 1978 where the killed and killers both were non Hindus, yet the Punjabi Hindus just to oppose the Sikhs had openly taken the side of the Nirankaris. This created a lot of animosity amongst the Sikh population. The Punjabi Hindus had done the same thing during the Nankana Sahib massacre decades earlier where they took the side of Narainu even though he had brutally killed a large number of peaceful Sikhs.

Punjabi Hindus need to get this into their head that Sikhs are not their enemy. If anyone has stood by them shoulder to shoulder it has always been Sikhs, yet why they still view Sikhs as the enemy is a huge mystery in itself. It seems Punjabi Hindus just do this because Sikhs do not consider themselves Hindus, as a result of this Punjabi HIndus have made it a point to oppose the Sikh no matter what.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Jonny101

[tonyhp32]

The Ekomkar guy is well known on the web. A Punjabi Hindu who cannot find anything in a thousand years of Punjabi Hindu history to be proud of so he latches on to the Mahratas who speak a different language, eat different food, have a different complexion but worship the same dumb bovine as he worships!

Ekomkar is right in that the Hindus in 1947 did have the most factories in Lahore but the Sikhs also were up and coming and were second. Added to this the Sikhs controlled the most land in rural Lahore. This is solely because the Hindus belonging to the Khatri and Arora communities were staunch Hindus whereas others such as Jats, Sainis, Lobanas, Chuhras, Chamars etc had become Sikhs in large numbers. In terms of general perception of the Hindu Khatris and Aroras by the non-Hindus in Punjab, they were always referred to as 'Kirars' or cowards by both Sikhs and Muslims. Their cowardice was legendary. I assume Ekomkar is a member of one of these communities.

He wants to show how great and powerful the Punjabi Hindu was by portraying the water taps for difference communities that existed in Lahore and most Punjabi towns. These taps were not seen as discrimination as the communities did not want to share the same water as each other. If the Muslim belief had been that they HAD to share the same water as others then no Hindu 'sher' could have stopped them.

Lahore had a Muslim majority mainly because the government had been adding the Muslim villages around Lahore into it's municipal limits but in the old city there were equal amounts of Muslims and Hindus so it makes it all the more surprising that the Hindu of Lahore who according to him ran the city could not even put up a pretence of resisting the Muslims in 1947 let alone even actually resist the Muslims.

In 1947 the only Hindu community that fought were the Jats of Haryana, the Punjabi Hindu was conspicuous by his absence. If any did fight they were mainly fought in a cowardly way such as stabbing people in the back (a very Punjabi Hindu trait!) and running off. There were no Hindus taking part in the mass attacks on villages which was what the Sikh jathas did and which led to the expulsion of Muslims from East Punjab. Given the anti-Sikh attitude of Punjabi Hindus like Ekomkar these Jathas should have completed the job and also kicked out he kiraar Hindus from East Punjab as well in 1947.

Our Kiraar friend then states that Punjabi Hindus are more prosperous than Sikhs by doing so he quotes some directory. The only way to determine who is most prosperous would be to look at which community has the most assets. As the only assets that the authorities take record of are house ownership.

In 2011 census the home ownership according to religion was -;

Sikhs 78%

Hindu 64%

Another way to measure prosperity is to look at occupations according to religion by percentage

------ Managerial/Senior ------ Professional------- Assoc, Professional and Technical -----Admin -----Skilled trades----Elementary & other

Sikhs -- ------13.25 ----------------16.70-----------------------------11.32---------------------------11.01-----------7.21----------------40.51--------

Hindus -------12.27------------------27.82----------------------------10.95---------------------------11.05-----------4.86----------------33.05----

The larger number of Hindu professionals is probably due to the large number of Hindu Gujaratis in professions like accountancy.

[chatanga1]

VOICE OF INDIA books by such greats as Sit Ram Goel, Ram Swarup, Koenraaf Elst that wud rip ur cut and pastes up!

this is where he gets his hindutva ideas from.

Ps Ambedkar was anti sikh too, and said it was more caste ridden then Hinduism!

What a liar, Ambedkar said that equality between Sikhs is confined to the Gurdwara only, whereas it is non-existant in Hindus. There is a difference there.

HSD1, u really have a problem dealing with facts! If Hindus weren't strong we would t have got our own nation in 1947, and got the best deal out of partition!

Pakistanis had the most victims of partition, but got a little piece of turd they named Pakistan,

Sikhs didn't even get that little piece if turd and turds like you have been eating shit ever since !

Don't talk bout nations and sovereignty when u ain't even got a nation and walk the streets bowl in hand begging Brits for charity, OLD HABITS DIE HARD HEY? Muslims were right SIKHS ARE THE LAP DOGS OF THE BRITISH, too bad ur master turned in you, Lolz

It seems that you have forgotten that the HIndus ate shit for 1000 years before the Sikhs managed to do something about it.

And you never the best deal out of partition, india lost 24% of it's land mass, so that only makes "a" deal out of partiiton, not a good one. Plus you ended up with more muslims than pakistan!

Its real funny how this ekomakar guy says he wants unity between both religions but all I read from him is either he says Sikhs are Hindus and 90% of sikhi is from Hinduism or he calls us losers and stray dogs.Wow what a hypocrit.From the first post he made I knew he was trying to rip sikhi apart.

he is a hindutva warrior, who has showered turds on other "hindu-sikh unity" forums before.

I'm glad others are waking up to this liar.

[Genie Singh]

Thing is, Hindutva types think Sikhs are HIndus, but from the inside they know it's not true either. If they did, they would not have declared Hindi as their language which they did just to oppose the Sikhs. With the exception of the Punjabi Hindus, No other Hindu ethnicity in all of India had oppose their own mother tongue. Punjabi Hindus did it just to oppose the Sikhs.

Well some propogate the idea that Punjabi is polluted by persian and arabic, punjabi was used as a means to defend the pure hindus and their devangari from muhammdens. Now that the muhammaden empire was removed, defeated and minimialised and shiv senna have stood to defend the hindu faith Sikhs should renounce their ways since Hinduism has been saved. Sikhs should then pick up the language of their ancestors of devangari and celebrate unity of India and integrate into the majority.

I wonder why o' why don't blasphemy laws get applied to people like Ram Swarup for hurting the sentiments of every other religion besides Hinduism in his legacy of books.

Can someone get a hold of an ebook of this so that we can bisect all of it's ideas http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Hindu_Sikh_Relationship.html?id=D785GwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

I found someone quote the book on this post here which seems to use some of it's ideas such as arguing the sikh identity as being absurd https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/Veer$20Sinh$20HINDU$20SIKH$20RELATIONSHIP$20by$20Ram$20Swarup$20/soc.culture.indian/7qJ9smYJPJw/6bkXXe4qMggJ

Found further mention of that book here http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/books/wiah/ch8.htm

An extract from that Ram person http://siddha.loka.tripod.com/sikh.htm

Sita Ram Goel (Sītā Rām Goyal) (1921–2003)

Ram Swarup (1920 – 26 December 1998), born Ram Swarup Agarwal

Koenraaf Elst (born 7 August 1959) is a Belgian writer and orientalist (without institutional affiliation). He was an editor of the New Right Flemish nationalist journal Teksten, Kommentaren en Studies from 1992 to 1995, focusing on criticism of Islam

Edited January 19, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Bullshit quotes provided by EKOMKAR proves God knows what. On the Banda thread Sher provided a quote from Sri Gur Panth Prakash, saying it proved Nahan Raja helped Banda. There was no reference to such an incident in the quote itself.

[dalsingh101]

Bringing things back into focus:

What I find comical is how, despite being stabbed in the back by wasps countless times, certain Sikhs still crawl up their arse.

Now the perversion of letting whitey and his military machine into Singh Sabha Gurdwaras seems even more disgusting.

Whitey has a front; they must really think apnay are retarded (for good reason too). So they can do all manner of snide, back handed stuff to Sikh polity and still turn up unashamed to the peasantry and try and coax them into fighting their battles.

These people are shameless. And our lot are retarded.

Edited January 20, 2014 by dalsingh101

[Genie Singh]

Chatanga u still r very bitter bout the daily beatings you received on the HINDU sikh forums Lolz from my HINDU sikh buddies? Lolz get some help!

Hindus don't eat shit, we feeding to the like of you!

Sikhs ate more shit from Muslims, and achieved nothing! Not even a nation!

Today Muslims and sikhs eat HINDU shit in Hindusthan, ENJOY IT

So you believe Hindus oppress Sikhs then? Despite your view that Sikhs deserve it or not you believe just like how the mughals oppressed hindus and sikhs by your comparison you feel Sikhs are now getting the same treatment. If under that treatment it came down to overthrowing the mughals, don't you think there will be sections of people who want to overthrow the indian government? Maybe you might argue they might not be capable to but the same was argued by the mughals. Some muslims argue no hindu or sikh overthrowed the mughals they became weak and allowed the british to step up.

[Guest]

Chatanga u still r very bitter bout the daily beatings you received on the HINDU sikh forums Lolz from my HINDU sikh buddies? Lolz get some help!

Hindus don't eat shit, we feeding to the like of you!

Sikhs ate more shit from Muslims, and achieved nothing! Not even a nation!

Today Muslims and sikhs eat HINDU shit in Hindusthan, ENJOY IT

So real RSS scum finally come out. I had some doubts when you first intially posted, i thought you are genuine spiritual seeker, didn't know you were RSS Hindu terrorist admin cut like rest of your RSS/shiv seva mob brothers.

I would be terrified to see you work in law firm knowning your extermist hindu rss views. You seriously remind of hindu mob terrorist threatning to kill miniroties than phd student.

[Jonny101]

So real RSS scum finally come out. I had some doubts when you first intially posted, i thought you are genuine spiritual seeker, didn't know you were RSS Hindu terrorist admin cut like rest of your RSS/shiv seva mob brothers.

I would be terrified to see you work in law firm knowning your extermist hindu rss views. You seriously remind of hindu mob terrorist threatning to kill miniroties than phd student.

That's the thing, first they come on Sikh forums pretending to be neutral. Then they start to spread their anti Sant Jee propaganda but they still don't say anything against the Sikh religion. But when they are exposed for what they really are, their anti Sikh views finally come out in the open. These two history-chors, Ekum dude and his Gidhar friend are exposed for what they really are. They try to justify the Sikh genocides while pretending Hindu Punjabis are an innocent peaceful loving community. But when facts come out by knowledgeable Sikhs here exposing how the whole Punjabi mess was a result of anti Sikh policies of this so called peaceful community now he is showing his true colours.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Jonny101

[Jonny101]

n30 just ban this troll. his anti sikh side has been exposed

[chatanga1]

Had HINDU punjabis not been shers, there would have been no sikhi as guru Nanak have would be born a Muslim Lolz we fought a 1000 years against Muslim invaders keeping India over 90% HINDU before Nanak was born !

U Sikhs stole our religion culture theories on spirituality reincarnation etc festivals and guru saints and call us thieves?

U ur Dharam chors !

So 10% Muslims made 90% hindus eat shit before Nanak was born. Give yourself a pat on the back, and sleep tight.

We didnt steal your religion either, why would Guru Nanak steal a sinking ship?

Tony HINDU punjabis have always dominated Punjab even during ranjit singhs reign all his highest ranking admin and soldiers were majority HINDU PUNJABI, as we have brains as well as brawn!

What did the sikhs do? They couldn't even save Punjab or themselves or the gurus sons from the Muslims inc Aurangzeb, forget saving others?

The highest ranks were 1% of the army, who made up the other 99%? The Hindu Panjabi's?

Makes you think why Maharaja recruited poorbia's, must be because they were better fighters than the Panjabi Hindus.

Chatanga u still r very bitter bout the daily beatings you received on the HINDU sikh forums Lolz from my HINDU sikh buddies? Lolz get some help!

Sikhs ate more shit from Muslims, and achieved nothing! Not even a nation!

actually I was banned because I exposed Ram Chander as per Dr Ambedkar (someone you like to depend on when forming your views on Sikhs).

We didnt eat shit for 1000 years! You did, and your people did!

Looks like ur still on the donkey dung, shine it up real nice and stick it in ur mouth from where the rest of the dung comes from!

This was your post wasnt it? I would check the time and date of your post, to see if it pre-dates mine. Loser.

Edited January 20, 2014 by chatanga1

[Genie Singh]

That's the thing, first they come on Sikh forums pretending to be neutral. Then they start to spread their anti Sant Jee propaganda but they still don't say anything against the Sikh religion. But when they are exposed for what they really are, their anti Sikh views finally come out in the open. These two history-chors, Ekum dude and his Gidhar friend are exposed for what they really are. They try to justify the Sikh genocides while pretending Hindu Punjabis are an innocent peaceful loving community. But when facts come out by knowledgeable Sikhs here exposing how the whole Punjabi mess was a result of anti Sikh policies of this so called peaceful community now he is showing his true colours.

Jonny I'm anti Sant I don't believe in Saints nor do I believe is the sant concept to be a part of puratan sikhi and something which came about during british raj as a result of cults being created as well as a whole series of sharlatons. When it comes to bhindranwale he signed his name as giani and in the 3rd person called himself giani or just by his own name. I also think people give too much weight of respect to bhindranwale, some put him equal to the gurus himself and forget his role as just a sikh.

I think all of nanaksar have done alot of harm to Sikhi aswell by dilluting it to a mish-mash tradition which accepts the validity of other traditions to be equal to it's own yet proposes ideas which are contradictory like not eating meat, the lack of eating meat has come at the cost of Sikhs being smaller in size then they used to be and in equalling other traditions, the daughters and sisters of sikhs are marrying out and raising children who aren't sikh. The sons and brothers of sikhs have equated sikhi to atheism through nanaksari ideology and have become drug bound.

Edited January 20, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[Jonny101]

Jonny I'm anti Sant I don't believe in Saints nor do I believe is the sant concept to be a part of puratan sikhi and something which came about during british raj as a result of cults being created as well as a whole series of sharlatons. When it comes to bhindranwale he signed his name as giani and in the 3rd person called himself giani or just by his own name. I also think people give too much weight of respect to bhindranwale, some put him equal to the gurus himself and forget his role as just a sikh.

I think all of nanaksar have done alot of harm to Sikhi aswell by dilluting it to a mish-mash tradition which accepts the validity of other traditions to be equal to it's own yet proposes ideas which are contradictory like not eating meat, the lack of eating meat has come at the cost of Sikhs being smaller in size then they used to be and in equalling other traditions, the daughters and sisters of sikhs are marrying out and raising children who aren't sikh. The sons and brothers of sikhs have equated sikhi to atheism through nanaksari ideology and have become drug bound.

When i said Sant I was referring to Sant Giani Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale not Sants in general. I have no problem call Sant Bhindranwale as a sant. He is the very definition of how a Sant should be following Sikhi Sidhaants. When Hindutva types come on Sikh forums, they don't expose their Anti Sikh views at first. They take it step by step. First they will start to do Nindya of Sant Bhindranwale. When they see gullible Sikhs not reacting, then take it a step furthur and justify operation bluestar. When Sikhs still do not react, then they come out in the open with their anti Sikh views.

Secondly we cannot say all Sant are bad. How can one deny Sant Attar Singh Mastuane, Baba Karam Singh Hoti Mardan, Bhindranwale Sants, Sant Ishar Singh Jee, Baba Nand Singh Jee. These men were Gurmukh Pyare.

[Genie Singh]

When i said Sant I was referring to Sant Giani Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale not Sants in general. I have no problem call Sant Bhindranwale as a sant. He is the very definition of how a Sant should be following Sikhi Sidhaants. When Hindutva types come on Sikh forums, they don't expose their Anti Sikh views at first. They take it step by step. First they will start to do Nindya of Sant Bhindranwale. When they see gullible Sikhs not reacting, then take it a step furthur and justify operation bluestar. When Sikhs still do not react, then they come out in the open with their anti Sikh views.

Secondly we cannot say all Sant are bad. How can one deny Sant Attar Singh Mastuane, Baba Karam Singh Hoti Mardan, Bhindranwale Sants, Sant Ishar Singh Jee, Baba Nand Singh Jee. These men were Gurmukh Pyare.

I'm not saying people like nand singh are bad, but they aren't in line with what puratan sikhi was, things like sitting on bulleh shahs grave, reading bulleh shah kalams in pavan pavitar hazoori of guru and having others read it. Then declining conversion to those who wish to come into the sikh fold from muhammdenism and hinduism and telling them to be strong in their own faith which has principles which contradict our own such as sunnah of cutting hair, or munan of hindu dharam. Then by sitting yourself as the next guru have your painting hung as large or larger then paintings of the 10 gurus, having people do mutha deek to your photo such as nand singhs. Or having personal items worshipped next to guru granth sahib in deras. These charalatons have their own memorial sites worshipped when his grand majestic Akali Baba Guru Gobind Singh maharaj didn't allow sikhs to worship his own site of passing.

Then propagating ideas which contradict sikhi such as them claiming divinity and the ability to intermediate for us infront of dharamraj. Or then pretending to uplift our sins and bless us with wealth. Then asking for huge donations which go into making their deras look nicer, their living accomadations nicer with air conditioning, satelite television, latest cars, latest mobile phones with the latest ring tones, drivers all serving the so called god men claiming to be god, who steal peoples lands. We have criminals now dressed in the robes of these holy men who rape women, take the honour of our sisters then step on our brothers. They have broken the devoution of some of our sikh brothers and left people to see sikhi nothing more then a false religion due to these false men who claim guru granth sahib as their means to line their own pockets. These charalaton criminals have done nothing but damaged our panth. When it comes to people like ram rahim, nirankari babas who line their pockets and the long line of successors who claim to be on nand singh's seat to claim huge donations so you can buy yourself an afterlife. After-all god hates the poor in accordance to the false teachings these charalatons preach. People like nand singh took the pure teachings of his majestic holiness Akali Guru Nanak Dev ji and manipulated them to equate all traditions as one and neglect guru nanaks teachings of how all atmas can attain karam khand but without the gift of naam can not attain sach khand.

"It (Hinduism) is like the boa constrictor [type of snake which strangles and ingests it's prey] of the Indian forests. When a petty enemy appears to worry it, it winds round its opponent, crushes it in its folds, and finally causes it to disappear in its capacious interior....Hinduism has embraced Sikhism in its folds; the still comparatively young religion is making a vigorous struggle for life, but its ultimate destruction is, it is apprehended, inevitable without State support." (Max Arthur Macauliffe, 1903)

Edited January 21, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[Guest]

You guys are deviating from the topic at hand, stick to the topic. You can open up new thread for off-topics if you like.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

"Look, as a HINDU punjabi I don't really see a difference between Hindus and sikhs, and have nothing against my sikh brothers and sisters. That's the truth, take it or leave it."

This is what ekomakar fellow used to say but after read his recen posts the truth has been revealed!

The only unity they can ever create is trying to absorb a unique precedent into their own decayed psyche.

[Genie Singh]

...fictionalized the tragic episode in his The Satanic Verses (1988). We in India have similar groups of fanatics committed to violence. It is not a mere coincidence that leaders of these cults are men or women with diseased minds but mesmeric powers of speech. In the early 1980s, in Punjab, we had Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale who ordered cold-blooded executions of his detractors. He and his militant followers were holed up in the Golden Temple at Amritsar. In early June 1984, the Indian Army entered this temple to evict the militants, and in the ensuing battle, brought about the destruction of the sacred Akal Takht. (Chapter 1.) Bhindranwale himself was killed. In the 1980s, thousands of lives were lost in Punjab, Haryana and Delhi.

SINGH, KHUSHWANT; Chopra, Ashok (2011-10-01). Agnostic Khushwant: There Is No God (Kindle Locations 1134-1140). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

[Jonny101]

...fictionalized the tragic episode in his The Satanic Verses (1988). We in India have similar groups of fanatics committed to violence. It is not a mere coincidence that leaders of these cults are men or women with diseased minds but mesmeric powers of speech. In the early 1980s, in Punjab, we had Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale who ordered cold-blooded executions of his detractors. He and his militant followers were holed up in the Golden Temple at Amritsar. In early June 1984, the Indian Army entered this temple to evict the militants, and in the ensuing battle, brought about the destruction of the sacred Akal Takht. (Chapter 1.) Bhindranwale himself was killed. In the 1980s, thousands of lives were lost in Punjab, Haryana and Delhi.

SINGH, KHUSHWANT; Chopra, Ashok (2011-10-01). Agnostic Khushwant: There Is No God (Kindle Locations 1134-1140). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Since 1947 Sikhs have been discriminated by the Hindus. Sikhs carried out morcha after morcha for Punjab's rights. This resulted in tens of thousands of Sikhs going to jails, Punjab breaking up into 3 more states. Then in 1978, 13 Sikhs were massacred by the Narakdharis. When the Indian "justice" system again failed to provide justice, Sikhs began to take measures to protect their community. Sikhs were totally helpless in their own state. Sikh grievances then manifested themselves in the form of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.

Hundreds of Sikhs had been killed by the Nirankaris, Hindu terrorists and GOI even before operation bluestar between 1978-1980. But Guru Jee blessed the Sikh nation by giving us such a great leader at the time. Sant Jee led a peaceful movement called the Dharm Yudh Morcha where again peaceful Sikhs were courting arrest in the tens of thousands. All the Sikh Panth was fully united behind Sant Jee's Dharm Yudh Morcha. Being misled by their Arya Samaj leaders, Hindus all over Punjab began demanding the attack on Darbar Sahib to teach Sikhs a lesson for daring to dream of equal rights between Sikhs and Hindus. Indira Gandhi knew elections are not far away, so she did exactly what Hindu voters wanted and she attacked Darbar Sahib in which the Indian army slaughters thousands of Sikhs, destroyed the Akal Takh, hundreds of bullets were pumped into Darbar Sahib. Even women and children were not spared. Hindu celebrated this attack by dancing with joy and distributing sweets all over Punjab.

[Genie Singh]

[Genie Singh]

Then in 1978, 13 Sikhs were massacred by the Narakdharis. When the Indian "justice" system again failed to provide justice, Sikhs began to take measures to protect their community. Sikhs were totally helpless in their own state. Sikh grievances then manifested themselves in the form of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.

Hundreds of Sikhs had been killed by the Nirankaris

As far as I am aware the Nirankari were an offshoot of the Sikh religion who had their own dehdhari guru (not that different to what sant/saints claim divinity in themselves). The nirankaris would touch each others feet and claim "dhan nirnakar"- praise the formless one (god), taking from the teachings of Guru Nanak they claimed God is within all. The nirankaris had established there own creed utilising the teachings of the orthodox faith of Sikhi by initiating people. It appears that they would provide re-prints of shabads and have their followers read each piece. This practice was seen as insulting as is to take apart limb by limb the Guru. Bhindranwale put a bounty of Gurbachan Singh's head after propagating the idea that the nirankari acclaimed prophet, gurbachan had stepped ontop with his feet on the Guru Granth Sahib. I am not aware of any witnesses of the event or anyone speaking about it besides those iterating Bhindranwale's ideas. Some say gurbachan had 7 sitara, 7 stars as to mimmic the 5 beloved ones (if we look across at the way some Sikh cults operate they tend to manipulate the 5 beloved ones in different ways sometimes- the head is the cult leader claiming divinity i.e. the Sant/Baba). It appears people claim gurbachan claimed Guru Granth Sahib to be nothing but a bunch of papers or a book. It's possible maybe he was misreferenced, but in Nirankari darbars as it appears on youtube they seem to prostrate (muthadeek) to Guru Granth Sahib.

As for shooting these 13 men, it appears they were mostly from AKJ and some from Taksal who opposed Gurbachan's message which under the constitution of India was protected by freedom of religion. In entering the protest of a religion gathering these 13 were shot by what seems to be body guards. It's possible that danger was perceived by the body guards in some shape or manner so as to protect their baba they shot dead these men. What's sad is how the matter was dismissed by the police. Which lead to the assignation of gurbachan as Bhindranwale had said he would give that person's weight in gold. I haven't come across such a teaching taught in Sikhi to put bounties on people's heads. If we want to compare this to massar ranghar. Massar Ranghar had occupied harmandar and not allowed Sikh pilgrims to enter aswell as trespassing with setting up his camp.

Could you please tell us more about the kilings that the Nirankaris aparently did? It appears Nirankari's seem to preach vegetarianism and preach against killing animals, I wonder what blood lust they must have had?

Edited January 21, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

...fictionalized the tragic episode in his The Satanic Verses (1988). We in India have similar groups of fanatics committed to violence. It is not a mere coincidence that leaders of these cults are men or women with diseased minds but mesmeric powers of speech. In the early 1980s, in Punjab, we had Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale who ordered cold-blooded executions of his detractors. He and his militant followers were holed up in the Golden Temple at Amritsar. In early June 1984, the Indian Army entered this temple to evict the militants, and in the ensuing battle, brought about the destruction of the sacred Akal Takht. (Chapter 1.) Bhindranwale himself was killed. In the 1980s, thousands of lives were lost in Punjab, Haryana and Delhi.

SINGH, KHUSHWANT; Chopra, Ashok (2011-10-01). Agnostic Khushwant: There Is No God (Kindle Locations 1134-1140). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

The impression I get from Khushwant Singh's works is he's basically neutral but when it suits him he jumps on either of the bandwagons surrounding him.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Amarjeet Singh_1737

[Genie Singh]

The impression I get from Khushwant Singh's works is he's basically neutral but when it suits him he jumps on either of the bandwagons surrounding him.

In his book Khushwant is building up the argument for why he doesn't believe in god. He starts off with his life having taken amrit, done nitnem, been around a full family where akhand paaths were the norm. He states he feared his declaration until 1947. In the section of the extract it is from a chapter addressing muhammden prejudices he felt he had. That extract comes from the prejudice he has detailed of the feeling that muhammdens are fanatics he starts off with some examples of Muhammden fanaticism and equates Bhindranwale to the likes of Khoemini himself when he had placed the fatwa (bounty) on Salman Rushdie.

I think Khushwant tries to be impartial after-all his daughter is married into muhammden's. Besides his award from Akal Takht by the jathedar and praises by Sikhs. He is of firm conviction the unlikeness of an existence of a diety. His book does make quite a wide range of quotations from the koran and his perception of the positive merits of muhammdenism which include the praise of god and the staunch frigidness of muhammdenism. He has argued that muhammdenism can't be accused for forceful conversion as it was rigidly condemned in their religion where as something like that in Sikhi isn't as rigidly mentioned which gives room for fanaticism to arise.

Edited January 21, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

In his book Khushwant is building up the argument for why he doesn't believe in god. He starts off with his life having taken amrit, done nitnem, been around a full family where akhand paaths were the norm. He states he feared his declaration until 1947. In the section of the extract it is from a chapter addressing muhammden prejudices he felt he had. That extract comes from the prejudice he has detailed of the feeling that muhammdens are fanatics he starts off with some examples of Muhammden fanaticism and equates Bhindranwale to the likes of Khoemini himself when he had placed the fatwa (bounty) on Salman Rushdie.

I think Khushwant tries to be impartial after-all his daughter is married into muhammden's. Besides his award from Akal Takht by the jathedar and praises by Sikhs. He is of firm conviction the unlikeness of an existence of a diety. His book does make quite a wide range of quotations from the koran and his perception of the positive merits of muhammdenism which include the praise of god and the staunch frigidness of muhammdenism. He has argued that muhammdenism can't be accused for forceful conversion as it was rigidly condemned in their religion where as something like that in Sikhi isn't as rigidly mentioned which gives room for fanaticism to arise.

Not equating myself to him but in my experience the only time anyone can make that statement is when they are highly drunk.