Reconclination Efforts Between Hindus And Sikhs In Punjab And Rest Of India

[Jonny101]

I suspect Sher and Ekomkar are the same person

me too. They both post at the same time. Not surprisingly, yesterday there was little or no activity from both of them. Seems like a Vellah person with too much time on his hand making multiple IDs

Edited January 21, 2014 by Jonny101

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

I suspect Sher and Ekomkar are the same person

Would explain a lot. One's quite and reserved while the other stokes the flames.

[tonyhp32]

The Ravidassia are Hindu Chamars from Doaba region who had been influenced by Sikhism who are now attempting to create their own religion. Whether this is successful or not is another matter. Various attempts had been made in the last century by them to break away from Hinduism such as the Ad Dharm movement and in the 70s there was a movement to become Buddhists,

Their attempts at creating Ravidassia dharam will turn the Hindus into a minority in Doaba region.

Edited January 21, 2014 by tonyhp32

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Hahaha! Amusing, why are these neo-Sikhs so insecure? I would not waste my time checking who posted what and when. for me, it's not about the messenger and why create multiple IDs, what for?

PS I would love it if my other ID also posts something just now

Insecurity? Is that what your mind defines your reflection as being?

[JungChamkaur]

Singho, I see a lot of anti-gurbani comments here. If we want reconciliation with "hindus" then we have to first stop referring to "hindus" as a whole. If you want to talk about the RSS then talk about them. Saying "hindu this, hindu that" is tantamount to the RSS saying "sikhs are anti-nationalist". This was the same mistake Sant Jarnail Singhji made. We have to be specific when we make attacks against an entity.

[jaikaara]

Singho, I see a lot of anti-gurbani comments here. If we want reconciliation with "hindus" then we have to first stop referring to "hindus" as a whole. If you want to talk about the RSS then talk about them. Saying "hindu this, hindu that" is tantamount to the RSS saying "sikhs are anti-nationalist". This was the same mistake Sant Jarnail Singhji made. We have to be specific when we make attacks against an entity.

I second that .. the relations have been so deep its difficult to differentiate

[JungChamkaur]

Please read my thread: "Bigotry on this website. Please Read"

[Jonny101]

Singho, I see a lot of anti-gurbani comments here. If we want reconciliation with "hindus" then we have to first stop referring to "hindus" as a whole. If you want to talk about the RSS then talk about them. Saying "hindu this, hindu that" is tantamount to the RSS saying "sikhs are anti-nationalist". This was the same mistake Sant Jarnail Singhji made. We have to be specific when we make attacks against an entity.

Bro try to see things in proper historical context instead of making blanket statements against Sant Jee. After 1947, Punjabi Hindus always voted as Hindus in competition against the Sikhs. When ever Sikhs took up the cause of Punjab, the Punjabi Hindus would oppose it just because the Sikhs had espoused the cause. Example of this is the rights of Punjabi language. The Sikhs supported the cause of their mother tongue as loyal sons of Punjab, but the Hindus of Punjab opposed the demand simply to counter the Sikhs. So when a community begins to vote as one united block as opposers to the Sikhs, then obviously Sant Jee will refer to them by their name.

[JungChamkaur]

Jonny 101, you are wrong. Simply put. And I have to be blunt. There is no single homogenous group called "Punjabi Hindus". Please wake up and read the ideology of Ghadar Party, look at the Naxalite cause, the book by Vandana Shiva and her work. Look at Gramsci's book: Prison Notebooks. You are obviously not awake. Punjabi Hindus? What are Punjabi Hindus? I know the Punjabi Hindus of my area are falling victim to the drug menace just as badly as the Sikh kids. Did a lot of the Hindus of Punjab (defined as Himachal, Haryana and Current Punjab state) vote against Punjabi Suba? Yes, they did. However, the reason for Haryana is that they dont speak our Punjabi. If you go to Ropar, Kharar, Kurali etc, you will see that the Hindus there speak Haryanvi style Punjabi. Their included in Punjab... If you go into Haryana, their language is not "Punjabi" like ours. It makes sense that a lot of Haryana voted against the Punjabi Suba which would have put our dialect onto them by legislative force. However, in Himachal, many Hindus spoke Punjabi and they still voted for Hindi. This is because they fell into the trap of the RSS... Even today many of them speak Punjabi. If you see a video on youtube about Capt. Amrinder Singh talking to Badal, you will see how he exposes that Badal's "Akali" Dal wanted to make Punjabi Suba into a Hindu vs. Sikh issue so his party can win a majority in Punjab and he can get his Chaudar. The so called Akalis under Badal and the RSS worked together to make the language issue a religious one. This worked. Wake up. The attack is coming from all sides. The very fact that you mention whole communities as one, really makes me wonder how old you are, and what your education is. Please do tell...

I am beginning to think that Im speaking to young children here who have only been educated by a select few youtube videos and some uneducated Sants in India... I repeat: PLEASE READ VANDANA SHIVA AND GHADAR PARTY IDEOLOGY! ALSO GRAMSCI! READ ABOUT HEGEMONY!

I have a Masters in Political Science and I ascribe to the ideology of the Ghadar Party. I can bet many people here dont even know the fact that the Khardku movement ran parallel into the Naxalite Punjab Movement. Does anyone even know about Baba Bhuja Singh? Please read more books. I can see why a lot of people here use general labels to identify political entities and social movements. Most of you seem like little kids who have barely read anything and have minimal knowledge of Political Science.... Please read more and speak intelligently. Scholars would laugh in our face if they read the comments on this website. Generalization evinces your lack of knowledge.

SatnaamJi

Edited February 19, 2014 by JungChamkaur

[Jonny101]

Jonny 101, you are wrong. Simply put. And I have to be blunt. There is no single homogenous group called "Punjabi Hindus". Please wake up and read the ideology of Ghadar Party, look at the Naxalite cause, the book by Vandana Shiva and her work. Look at Gramsci's book: Prison Notebooks. You are obviously not awake. Punjabi Hindus? What are Punjabi Hindus? I know the Punjabi Hindus of my area are falling victim to the drug menace just as badly as the Sikh kids. Did a lot of the Hindus of Punjab (defined as Himachal, Haryana and Current Punjab state) vote against Punjabi Suba? Yes, they did. However, the reason for Haryana is that they dont speak our Punjabi. If you go to Ropar, Kharar, Kurali etc, you will see that the Hindus there speak Haryanvi style Punjabi. Their included in Punjab... If you go into Haryana, their language is not "Punjabi" like ours. It makes sense that a lot of Haryana voted against the Punjabi Suba which would have put our dialect onto them by legislative force. However, in Himachal, many Hindus spoke Punjabi and they still voted for Hindi. This is because they fell into the trap of the RSS... Even today many of them speak Punjabi. If you see a video on youtube about Capt. Amrinder Singh talking to Badal, you will see how he exposes that Badal's "Akali" Dal wanted to make Punjabi Suba into a Hindu vs. Sikh issue so his party can win a majority in Punjab and he can get his Chaudar. The so called Akalis under Badal and the RSS worked together to make the language issue a religious one. This worked. Wake up. The attack is coming from all sides. The very fact that you mention whole communities as one, really makes me wonder how old you are, and what your education is. Please do tell...

I am beginning to think that Im speaking to young children here who have only been educated by a select few youtube videos and some uneducated Sants in India... I repeat: PLEASE READ VANDANA SHIVA AND GHADAR PARTY IDEOLOGY! ALSO GRAMSCI! READ ABOUT HEGEMONY!

I have a Masters in Political Science and I ascribe to the ideology of the Ghadar Party. I can bet many people here dont even know the fact that the Khardku movement ran parallel into the Naxalite Punjab Movement. Does anyone even know about Baba Bhuja Singh? Please read more books. I can see why a lot of people here use general labels to identify political entities and social movements. Most of you seem like little kids who have barely read anything and have minimal knowledge of Political Science.... Please read more and speak intelligently. Scholars would laugh in our face if they read the comments on this website. Generalization evinces your lack of knowledge.

SatnaamJi

You are so out of touch of the situation during the 80s and before. You think the Hindu Punjabis of today are like the hostile Arya Samaji Hindus of the previous decades. Nothing could be further from the truth. Today's Hindus do not oppose Punjab's demands. Punjabi Hindus of the past had opposed the Punjabi language, Punjab river water issue, declaring Amritsar as a holy city like Banaras is for Hindus. You are also confusing Harianvi Hindus with Punjabi ones. Harianvi Hindus do not even speak Punjab, but the Punjabi Hindus were full blooded Punjabis yet opposed Punjabi language. The reason for that was just to oppose the Sikhs, otherwise they had no reason to oppose Punjabi language. Sikhs never had any issue with Haryanvis. For all we care they can form their own greater Jat state with Jat areas of Rajasthan, MP, UP after they give back Punjabi speaking areas of Haryana back to Punjab.

And how is demanding Punjabi language be give it's due status, Punjabi speaking lands in Haryana merged into Punjab, Punjab's river water issue a "Sikh issue"??? It very smart of Punjabi Hindus to have falsely present these genuine demands into communal ones. And the communists(Kaum-Nasht) of Punjab being anti Sikh to the core also supported the Hindus against the Sikhs. No wonder communists lost all their support base from amongst the Punjabi peasants. I'm glad the communists have no say in Punjab, because if one looks at where the communists managed to form the state governments, they've turned Bangal and Kerala into economic backward states which are now on the verge of being taken over by Muslims. Communist? not thanks...

Edited February 20, 2014 by Jonny101

[JungChamkaur]

Jonny your actually surprising me with your vacuous statements. I never confused Punjabi Hindus of today with the Arya Samaji Hindus of yesteryears... where are you getting this from? Also, I have yet to come across any material evidence that supports the claim that Punjabi Hindus supported Hindi unless your talking about the Hindus of Himachal who did this 100% as they got a new state by doing so.. There is no material evidence that says Punjabi Hindus in current day Punjab as a whole voted for Hindi. I have tried looking for this before and the govt has not released the molecular information about the Punjabi Suba vote.

And you obviously do not know that there are different strains of "Communism".... lmao You are too funny. Dont talk, just stop. You dont know anything. Ghadari Babay actually became Naxalites in Punjab lolll did you know that? And I never said Punjabi language rights were a "Sikh issue" I said that the party of Badal and the RSS Arya Samajis made the issue a bipolar religious debate and the loser of this affair was the Punjabi language and this was part of the plan. Normal street to street Hindus would not oppose anything for Amritsar's holy status... why are you thinking that the RSS speaks for the Hindu people of Punjab? You are actually annoying me with your lack of knowledge and ability to engage in an educated manner. Your argument does nothing to attack the grounds of my argument. Attack points specifically to try to be more clear. Also, the naxalites of the Red Corridor share the same struggle the Khadkus did in the 80s in Punjab. Do you even know that BT Cotton owned by Monsanto and the pesticides of the Bhopal Massacre are the same things causing cancer and farmer suicides in Punjab?

[jaikaara]

Jung Chamkaur bhaa ji it was not the RSS who asked the hindus to mention their language as Hindi it was the Arya Samaaj ..The RSS opposed it in fact .. their leader expressed grief over it ...i think his name was Gowalkar ...

[tonyhp32]

For someone who claims to have a MA in political science you are extremely ignorant of the basic facts about the Sikh struggle after 1947. Did you perchance buy your MA over the Internet?

Anyway welcome to the forum where you can now receive an education for free!

Did a lot of the Hindus of Punjab (defined as Himachal, Haryana and Current Punjab state) vote against Punjabi Suba? Yes, they did. However, the reason for Haryana is that they dont speak our Punjabi. If you go to Ropar, Kharar, Kurali etc, you will see that the Hindus there speak Haryanvi style Punjabi. Their included in Punjab... If you go into Haryana, their language is not "Punjabi" like ours. It makes sense that a lot of Haryana voted against the Punjabi Suba which would have put our dialect onto them by legislative force. However, in Himachal, many Hindus spoke Punjabi and they still voted for Hindi. This is because they fell into the trap of the RSS...

As Jaikaara has already pointed out, it was the Arya Samaji Hindus through their newspapers, that convinced a majority of the Hindus to claim that Hindi was their mother tongue. The RSS actually was against this at the time. This major fact should be known to someone with a MA in Political science. Anyway maybe your MA is from an Indian university where they only teach numbties. Also there was no such thing as a 'vote', there was no referendum on Punjabi Suba so I fail to see what you mean about voting against Punjabi Suba. I assume you know about dialects, the way I speak Punjabi is different from the way someone from Doaba or from Majha may speak it but it is still Punjabi. The Hindus you encountered in Ropar may speak a certain dialect of Punjabi but they are still speaking Punjabi and not HIndi.

Also, I have yet to come across any material evidence that supports the claim that Punjabi Hindus supported Hindi unless your talking about the Hindus of Himachal who did this 100% as they got a new state by doing so.. There is no material evidence that says Punjabi Hindus in current day Punjab as a whole voted for Hindi. I have tried looking for this before and the govt has not released the molecular information about the Punjabi Suba vote.

That's because there was no referendum on Punjabi Suba so you will find no information on the vote. Didn't this come up in your MA course? What people have been discussing here on this forum if you actually bothered to read and not dismiss everyone as children in your arrogant manner is the Census of 1961. The census that was highly flawed and taken in a communally surcharged atmosphere created by the Arya Samaj. A census which was actually even criticised by Nehru such was the gross attempt by Punjabi Hindus to turn Punjabi speaking areas of East Punjab into bilingual areas. But the same flawed census was used in 1966 to bifurcate East Punjab info three states, so do you get the maths? 1+1=2. The Punjabi Hindus used the census to claim Hindi as their mother tongue, this census was then used to divide the Punjab which due to the lies that the Punjabi Hindus told in 1961 ensured that Punjabi speaking areas in the then Ambala, Karnal and Hissar districts were kept out of Punjabi Suba.

Again, I am surprised that this didn't come up in your MA.

If you look at how much fraud was used in the Census, it even came up with ridiculous results such as nearly half of the Mazhabis of Amritsar district were counted as Hindus! The Punjabi Hindus used their role in the administration especially in the Census department as well as their media outlets to abort the attempt to create a true Punjabi speaking state.

And you obviously do not know that there are different strains of "Communism".... lmao You are too funny. Dont talk, just stop. You dont know anything. Ghadari Babay actually became Naxalites in Punjab lolll did you know that?

A large number of the militants in the 80s came from a Naxalite background. But they left that background due to the religious revival that Sant Bhindranwale brought about in Punjab. The youth activists of the 70s may have been Naxalite but by the 80s youth activism came in the form of Sikh miltancy. Of course there are different strains of communism in Punjab, from a strain that showed some support for Khalistan as a struggle for liberation of an oppressed people to the CPI/CPM 'official' communists who were worst than the congress in supporting the oppression of the Sikh youth by the GOI.

I said that the party of Badal and the RSS Arya Samajis made the issue a bipolar religious debate and the loser of this affair was the Punjabi language and this was part of the plan.

If the plan was to create a Sikh majority state then why did the Akalis then start to agitate for the Punjabi speaking but Hindu majority areas that were kept out of Punjab because of the lies of the Punjabi HIndus to be merged into Punjab? The 1961 census results showed that the Punjabi Suba in 1966 had only a 54% Sikh majority, so tell us Mr Political Science MA saab why would the Akalis want to bring the Sikh majority down further by demanding Hindu majority areas left out in 1966 be merged into Punjab? Did they suddenly forget that their original plan was to create a Sikh majority state?

[Jonny101]

Akalis NEVER agitated to bring back the Punjabi speaking areas into Punjab.

This has been a long awaited demand of the Sikhs that Punjabi speaking areas given to Haryana be given back to Punjab. The division of Punjab was a long term strategy by the central government. By giving the Punjabis a Punjabi Suba with all the genuine Punjabi speaking areas, they knew that the Haryanvis with a small Haryana state would then look towards merging Jat inhabited lands of western UP(Harit Pradesh) and this in turn would weaken UP which was Nehru's support base. The central government made such an unfair division of Punjab which insured that the two states would keep their horns locked with each other over territorial issues so the Harianvis do not look towards UP. The Bania has even surpassed the Angrez in his divide and rule strategy.

[JungChamkaur]

As far as my MA goes, its in Political Theory, not Indian politics... I am into Jacques Ranciere, Gramsci, Zizek, Marx, Fanon, Nietzsche some others. Dont attack my credentials.. Im sure I can attack your families and I wont even have to make anything up... I can bet only 1% of you people even come from prominent families of any importance.... Anyways, I said vote as a misnomer. The census was basically a vote, people went around village to village making speeches and publishing articles telling Hindus to put their language down as Hindi, so it was basically a vote. People chose their sides. I still acknowledge that the Himachal Hindus put Hindi as their language and of course the Hindus of places like Ambala too. I know Ropar is Punjab and that they speak a different dialect but that doesnt take away from the fact that some of our leaders go around complaining about losing Haryana as if they spoke the same Punjabi we do... Thats what I was talking about as well. You cant say your OK with losing Haryana when all of our leaders go around complaining about it as if we spoke the same language. The RSS thing i mentioned is obviously a mistake. I dont care, your corrected me and its ok, where Im wrong, Im wrong. I am just so used to putting the two together I overlooked this fact. My mistake. Doesnt take away from my other points though. Also, the Naxalites were definitely around before, during and after the Khadku movement. This is because the Khadku movement is based on an extreme version of Sikhi and inter-communal relations. The speeches made by Santji do not sound the type of speeches Baba Deep Singhji would have made when he rallied people against Ahmed Shah Abdali... we attack Mughals and Durrani, not Muslims.... we have to accept our faults before trying to blame whole communities. And the so called Akalis under Badal did not want a true Punjabi state because then they would never win elections ever.... this whole language problem was a plot made by the central govt and the Badals... I can say this with no worries because I have sources that no one here has... and never will. But like the Ghadar Party, I cannot go around saying stuff because we have a big mouth and get caught before anything manifests properly. Also, do look into Vandana Shiva's book and realize that the Khadku movement was actually naive because we started to think our struggle is a "religious struggle"... when there are millions of farmers across India facing the same problems. Eventually, this idea became solidified as the Cent. Govt started exacerbating this notion by targeting Sikh activists around Punjab. Any first year marxist student knows that governments use religion to divide masses and rule with this tool.. we always fall into this trap and start thinking everything is a Sikhi issue and Sikhs are the only party that has something to lose.... wake up, were not the only ones here and the idea of Khalistan just makes us seem selfish and takes away from our true duty to fight for all, not for ourselves only.

[chatanga1]

someone has the guts to call a spade a spade.

lol. there's no danger of you doing that.

As far as my MA goes, its in Political Theory, not Indian politics... I am into Jacques Ranciere, Gramsci, Zizek, Marx, Fanon, Nietzsche some others. Dont attack my credentials.. Im sure I can attack your families and I wont even have to make anything up...

from attacking your credentials to attacks on families? haven't you just repeated the same mistake as Bhindranwale?

I can bet only 1% of you people even come from prominent families of any importance.... Anyways, I said vote as a misnomer.

you betray that vote as a misnomer, yes?

and you forgot to add SatnaamJi after your effort.

Edited February 20, 2014 by chatanga1

[chatanga1]

There should be reconciliation efforts by both groups in punjab to help bridge relations again between hindus and sikhs in punjab.

But that's only possible when BJP (national party of hindus) table a bill in parliament to bring justice and closure to 1984 riot victims and same goes for aam admi party.

It's hard for sikh community/other minorities to trust either bjp or congress after what happened. Trust is gained, so those who really wants hindu sikh unity, please provide this gesture.

Malcolm X once said when asked about black and white unity, "There has to be black unity and white unity before we can talk about black and white unity".

The hindus of Panjab (and India) are united more or less in their anti-sikh stance, but as for the Sikhs, they are horribly divided. We Sikhs need to have some kind of unity movement before we can extend it to other communities.

[tonyhp32]

Are you serious? Do you have any idea how erroneous your stats are?

Sikh population in Punjab in 1961 was 33.3%!! Akalis NEVER agitated to bring back the Punjabi speaking areas into Punjab.

Read again what I wrote. The census of 1961 showed that the PUNJABI SUBA in 1966 had a population of 54%. That is the new state created in 1966 when using the statistics from 1961 showed that it had a Sikh population of 54%.

The flaws in the census of 1961 were exposed especially the counting of many members of the Sikh castes such as Mazhabis as Hindus and the 1971 census showed Sikhs to be just over 60% of the population of Punjab.

[Jonny101]

For someone who claims to be a so called "communist", Mr. MA is extremely pro Hindu(what a contradiction!). He justifies all of their anti Sikh moves or just out right denies them, but if Sikhs do anything in protest or resist then that is totally unjustifiable and communal. If Sikhs even sneeze, it's probably an Anti Hindu sneeze. His sense of justice is the worst I've ever seen. My family background(from Nanke side) is communist who were involved in the communist party way back even before partition happened during the early years of the communist movement in India. Mr MA is certainly not authentic communist. ਮੈਨੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਬੰਦਾ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਲਗ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਝੂਟੋ ਝੂਟ ਹੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਖ ਤੇ ਕੌਮਨਿਸਟ ਕਿਹ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ

Edited February 20, 2014 by Jonny101

[tonyhp32]

As far as my MA goes, its in Political Theory, not Indian politics... I am into Jacques Ranciere, Gramsci, Zizek, Marx, Fanon, Nietzsche some others. Dont attack my credentials.. Im sure I can attack your families and I wont even have to make anything up... I can bet only 1% of you people even come from prominent families of any importance.... Anyways, I said vote as a misnomer. The census was basically a vote, people went around village to village making speeches and publishing articles telling Hindus to put their language down as Hindi, so it was basically a vote. People chose their sides. I still acknowledge that the Himachal Hindus put Hindi as their language and of course the Hindus of places like Ambala too. I know Ropar is Punjab and that they speak a different dialect but that doesnt take away from the fact that some of our leaders go around complaining about losing Haryana as if they spoke the same Punjabi we do... Thats what I was talking about as well. You cant say your OK with losing Haryana when all of our leaders go around complaining about it as if we spoke the same language. The RSS thing i mentioned is obviously a mistake. I dont care, your corrected me and its ok, where Im wrong, Im wrong. I am just so used to putting the two together I overlooked this fact. My mistake. Doesnt take away from my other points though. Also, the Naxalites were definitely around before, during and after the Khadku movement. This is because the Khadku movement is based on an extreme version of Sikhi and inter-communal relations. The speeches made by Santji do not sound the type of speeches Baba Deep Singhji would have made when he rallied people against Ahmed Shah Abdali... we attack Mughals and Durrani, not Muslims.... we have to accept our faults before trying to blame whole communities. And the so called Akalis under Badal did not want a true Punjabi state because then they would never win elections ever.... this whole language problem was a plot made by the central govt and the Badals... I can say this with no worries because I have sources that no one here has... and never will. But like the Ghadar Party, I cannot go around saying stuff because we have a big mouth and get caught before anything manifests properly. Also, do look into Vandana Shiva's book and realize that the Khadku movement was actually naive because we started to think our struggle is a "religious struggle"... when there are millions of farmers across India facing the same problems. Eventually, this idea became solidified as the Cent. Govt started exacerbating this notion by targeting Sikh activists around Punjab. Any first year marxist student knows that governments use religion to divide masses and rule with this tool.. we always fall into this trap and start thinking everything is a Sikhi issue and Sikhs are the only party that has something to lose.... wake up, were not the only ones here and the idea of Khalistan just makes us seem selfish and takes away from our true duty to fight for all, not for ourselves only.

Well if the census was a vote then why didn't you check the census results, they must be available for a prominent family like yours? So how is it with so much certainty that you can state that the Punjab Hindus didn't vote against Punjabi ie put their mother language as Hindi and not Punjabi?

Santji's speeches do not say kill Hindus, he stated that we should be ready to meet any oppressor, he said anyone that rapes the daughter of a Sikh, a Hindu or anyone else should be dealt with the Singh straight and they should not come to Santji to ask him what they should do. What is wrong with that? I think you are too affected by government propaganda to understand the situation. Local Punjabi Muslims also oppressed Sikhs and it was not just the Mughals or Afghans. If these Muslims were in the armies of the Mughals or Afghans I think Baba Deep Singh would have said something very similar to what Santji said.

[Jonny101]

I dont believe how bigoted some of these forum posters are.

Now they blaming the communal division of Punjab on Hindus!!

Of course!! who else is to blame? had the Hindus not betrayed their own language in favour of Hindi today Punjab would have been a larger state. In the end, this move by the Punjabi Hindus only back fired on them. Before the unfair division of Punjab, they were ruling Punjabi politics. Today they are now a minority in Punjab, Haryana and Himachal and trusted by neither the Sikhs, Haryanvi or Pahadias. What a shame

[JungChamkaur]

I am not "pro-Hindu"... I am pro- LOGIC.... and reality. I dont think we can or should use religion to classify people... this goes against the whole gist of Gurbani... I am dumbfounded by everyones bigotry. Why cant anyone just look at people in terms of their character instead of trying to label them? Wake up Singho... your all bad examples of Gurbani. Worse than me... and I drink and eat meat. But I dont go around judging people baselessly, especially whole communities.

[chatanga1]

if Punjab is a small state today the blame lies squarely with Sikh politicians. Those Punjabi-speaking Hindus who declared Hindi as their MT (not that they were justified) did so to avoid the division of the state.

The fact that Panjab even exists today is down to the sacrifice and vision of the Sikhs. Left to your mob, it would have been totally destroyed along time ago.

And why you think that betraying your mother tongue to save it, is beyond me. It's like some dumb-ass mumbling the same rubbish, not understanding how stupid he makes himself look.

But then all but 2 of the posts you have made on this forum are just stupid beyond reason.

[tonyhp32]

if Punjab is a small state today the blame lies squarely with Sikh politicians. Those Punjabi-speaking Hindus who declared Hindi as their MT (not that they were justified) did so to avoid the division of the state. Yes, their move backfired as areas like kangra, Hamirpur, Ambala, karnal, et al were taken out of Punjabi subee (can't call it a suba or province). But those who opted out of this quasi-Khalsa theocracy have also benefited as their current and future generations would not have to suffer the highly sectarian, hegemonic Sikh leadership. whether they are trusted by SHPs or not, that's a debatable (at least 2 Himachal CMs (Dhumal and Shanta Kumar) and one haryana (Bhajan Lal) have been from this community). shame indeed as even after more than half a century of misguided deed of some Punjabi Hindus, most of the bigoted Sikh intelligentsia (inc 'quack' historians), politicians, petty katha vachaks and everyday self-appointed chaudharis continue to discriminate against Hindus (and other non-Sikhs/Khalsas in Punjab) citing that highly-charged census of 1961.

Actions have consequences. Your people through their hatred of the Sikhs tried to prevent the formation of a Punjabi Suba which would have been a Hindu majority state had they told the truth in the census. You appear not to understand that demand for a state based on language were happening all over India. It was only in Punjab that a community lied in the census to abort the creation of a Punjabi Suba.

[Jonny101]

Actions have consequences. Your people through their hatred of the Sikhs tried to prevent the formation of a Punjabi Suba which would have been a Hindu majority state had they told the truth in the census. You appear not to understand that demand for a state based on language were happening all over India. It was only in Punjab that a community lied in the census to abort the creation of a Punjabi Suba.

That is why when ever I refer to his people I always differentiate Punjabi Hindus from the rest of the Hindus in India. No other Hindu ethnicity in any other state is a denier of his own language, only the Punjabi Hindus have this trait. While the Punjabi Muslim is ashamed to speak Punjabi because of an inferiority complex(they try to act arab/afghan/persian), but the only reason Punjab Hindus denied their own language was to oppose the Sikhs.

And this isn't the only time they opposed the Sikhs. When Sikhs wanted to declare Amritsar a holy city as Banaras is for Hindus, the Hindus of Amritsar held a counter procession against declaring Amritsar a holy city. What problem should they have if Amritsar is a holy city? They also built the Durgiana Mandir in the 1920s which has no historical significance to Hindu religion in competition to Sri Harmandir Sahib. They even copied the design!