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5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Many people complain that they cannot focus but that is due to their dhyan not being properly trained.

You can say that 10 times more.

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Please don't focus on agya chakra unless you're ready. If you are not ready it will cause a imbalance in pavan and you will go mental. I did this before I was ready when I stayed at this place in India where I was meditating all day. I was at the brink of going mental. I can't describe the pain I went through for a week after to recover because I had been meditating at agya chakra for 3 days. Luckily I went back to my pind and met my grandpa for the first time who in due time I learned is a pooran-brahm gyani. When I met him and told him what was happening to me he understood and explained to me the dangers of meditating at that location when you're not at the proper stage. Then he shared his wisdom with me and put me on the correct path.

Can you explain in detail?

I am curious about how such things occur from a knowledge perspective.

Where did you concentrate exactly?

What was your experience of concentrating there?

How did that experience change into a problem, a mental imbalance?

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5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 Crazy to think a person is hoping to find God but they end up getting mentally ill with their efforts.

These events are really sad.

  • There was a Singh, who started doing excessive Jaap of "Ik Oangkaar" and he passed away, as he was unable to endure the prakash of it.
  • Gurbani Mantar Sidhi can be extremely dangerous too. Many people have had a negative impact, when trying to Sidh a Mantar.

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

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9 minutes ago, paapiman said:

These events are really sad.

  • There was a Singh, who started doing excessive Jaap of "Ik Oangkaar" and he passed away as he was unable to endure the prakash of it.
  • Gurbani Mantar Sidhi can be extremely dangerous too. Many people have had a negative impact, when trying to Sidh a Mantar.

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

 

Also, we need to remember that it is not God's fault, but rather the seeker's. One should know his/her limitations and try to work within them, rather than trying to act like a Brahamgyani and aim for unrealistic goals. Just imagine, what will happen to a teen, who tries to go into a gym and bench 600 pounds?

Additionally, one might do something out of innocence. These cases are really sad.

Best practice - Always consult Gurmukhs, before trying something new in spiritual life.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਸੋਹੀ ਜੋ ਰਾਮ ਰਚੇ ਰਾਖਾ

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

After 3 days what happened was my dhyan got stuck there and I couldn't remove it. It was like a super bad headache.

You mean your eyes kept staring at the forehead? And that caused a severe head-ache?

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2 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਸੋਹੀ ਜੋ ਰਾਮ ਰਚੇ ਰਾਖਾ

You mean your eyes kept staring at the forehead? And that caused a severe head-ache?

No lol. I was able to move my eyes anywhere I wanted to but no matter what I tried my focus and attention became stuck to that area. Try it yourself, put your dhyan at agya chakra for 15 mins. You will feel a very strong pull that is there because you see the mind wants to go there. The mind is astray and wants to go back home. That is the home of the mind. 

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2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

No lol. I was able to move my eyes anywhere I wanted to but no matter what I tried my focus and attention became stuck to that area. Try it yourself, put your dhyan at agya chakra for 15 mins. You will feel a very strong pull that is there because you see the mind wants to go there. The mind is astray and wants to go back home. That is the home of the mind. 

Lol I was thinking you were experiencing this below -

23 hours ago, HappyDays said:

You will know your dhyan is at the right place because if you open your eyes you will be looking directly at your nose when your dhyan is on your mukh.

If not that then...

What do you mean by this?

Quote

You will feel a very strong pull that is there because you see the mind wants to go there.

The way I see it, the locus of our consciousness is already located at the Agya chakra.

So what was different about this episode?

Was your attention pulled away from your body and into it? which caused you to not experience your body and ONLY experience the chakra?

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47 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Lol I was thinking you were experiencing this below -

If not that then...

What do you mean by this?

The way I see it, the locus of our consciousness is already located at the Agya chakra.

So what was different about this episode?

Was your attention pulled away from your body and into it? which caused you to not experience your body and ONLY experience the chakra?

In the proper meditation technique you put your dhyan on your mouth when doing naam japna. To make sure it is at the right place you can open your eyes and you should be looking directly at the tip of your nose. That is how to check if your dhyan is properly on your mouth and in the dhun "dhun me dhiaan, dhiaan me janeya gurmukh akath kahanee". For me when I didn't know the right technique I had put dhyan at agya chakra for 3 days straight and as a result of focusing so much on there I got a really bad head-ache. I was then told I should not put my dhyan there when I meditate because I am not at that stage yet. Agya Chakra, Trikuti, the place between your eyebrows whatever you want to call it is not a place a beginner should meditate. Only when a person is at the proper stage should they meditate there. That is the door Kabir says he is waiting at for the Lord to open. When you're at the proper stage then you will put your dhyan there and wait for the Lord to open the door for you the same way Bhagat Kabir Ji did. Imagine you have a rock stuck in your forehead weighing you down and you want to get the rock out. That's basically what I felt due to my dhyan being stuck there it caused so much pressure. It took 1 week of me stopping all meditation and going for long walks to finally break out of it. Hope I answered your questions, if not then just let me know and I will try again.

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54 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

In the proper meditation technique you put your dhyan on your mouth when doing naam japna. To make sure it is at the right place you can open your eyes and you should be looking directly at the tip of your nose. That is how to check if your dhyan is properly on your mouth and in the dhun "dhun me dhiaan, dhiaan me janeya gurmukh akath kahanee". 

14

This is not the dhun. The dhun this refers to is ajapa jaap, not vaiklhari jaap. 

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54 minutes ago, Raju said:

This is not the dhun. The dhun this refers to is ajapa jaap, not vaiklhari jaap. 

Sure you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just going by what a guy who has done naam simran his whole life and devoted himself completely tells me. If I can get to 1% of what he is spiritually then I'll be extremely grateful. There is dhun of gurmantar. Gurbani one line can have different meanings depending on persons avastha. Dhun of gurmantar, dhun of anhad shabad, sehaj dhun, panch shabad etc. The first step in putting "dhun mein dhiaan, dhiaan me janeya gurmukh akath kahanee" is to put dhiaan in dhun of Vahe-Guru.

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1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

For me when I didn't know the right technique I had put dhyan at agya chakra for 3 days straight and as a result of focusing so much on there I got a really bad head-ache.

Oh you got a bad headache from doing so. Gotcha.

What confused me about your condition was when you said your "dhyan got stuck there"

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

That's basically what I felt due to my dhyan being stuck there it caused so much pressure.

Ok you felt pressure.

"Dhyan got stuck" is probably not the right language when describing this. When your dhyan sticks, that's a good thing lol. Everybody is trying to get the dhyan to stick but it doesn't, that's the problem! They need to train their dhyan so it sticks!

I got what you are saying, you felt pressure in your forehead and you got a headache from that.

Was there any mental imbalance aside from the physical pain? Or was it just pressure and headache?

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9 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Oh you got a bad headache from doing so. Gotcha.

What confused me about your condition was when you said your "dhyan got stuck there"

Ok you felt pressure.

"Dhyan got stuck" is probably not the right language when describing this. When your dhyan sticks, that's a good thing lol. Everybody is trying to get the dhyan to stick but it doesn't, that's the problem! They need to train their dhyan so it sticks!

I got what you are saying, you felt pressure in your forehead and you got a headache from that.

Was there any mental imbalance aside from the physical pain? Or was it just pressure and headache?

Wrong choice of words my bad. I felt like I couldn't breathe properly, I felt like I didn't have enough oxygen in me which made me feel exhausted and like passing out. I couldn't fall asleep in the night either because of the constant pressure in my forehead. It was pure hell lol.

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55 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 I felt like I couldn't breathe properly, I felt like I didn't have enough oxygen in me which made me feel exhausted and like passing out.

Quote

I couldn't fall asleep in the night either because of the constant pressure in my forehead.

That's not surprising. Those two things are connected. Pressure that is experienced during the agya chakra meditation is connected to the inhibition in the ability to breath and with headaches. But it is not the meditation that causes this, at least not directly.

Where was the headache located? Which areas hurt? or which areas hurt the most?

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2 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

That's not surprising. Those two things are connected. Pressure that is experienced during the agya chakra meditation is connected to the inhibition in the ability to breath and with headaches. But it is not the meditation that causes this, at least not directly.

Where was the headache located? Which areas hurt? or which areas hurt the most?

My whole head hurt. No more questions please lol I've given you all the info about my experience with this. Maybe it was because I did it 3 days straight. I don't know. I was told by a very experienced meditator in my grandpa that what happened was a imbalance in the pavan. I didn't ask for more information so that's all I know. Then I was told I shouldn't be meditating there.

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10 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

 

Those were the last set of questions.

Clearing up Misconceptions about Agya Chakra meditation

I'll tell you why I am asking such questions. I believe that it is not because of meditating on Agya chakra too early that you got a headache and such. And it's not an imbalance in the pavan.

It's because your muscles in your face, your jaw muscles and maybe even your neck muscles are tightening up during your meditations on the agya chakra.

I used to meditate on the agya chakra a lot and I would feel a pressure in my head between my eyes. My eyes were not straining but I felt a pressure. I thought "cool! my third eye chakra is activating". thus for many years I mistook the pressure in the forehead as the third eye chakra activating. Now the pressure is in the same region as the third eye however when a chakra is working properly you should ideally feel nothing. It is when the chakra is not working properly do you ever feel the chakra.

One day I accidentally noticed that if I loosen my jaw everytime there is pressure in the sinus region, then the pressure will go away. I thought it was just a conincidence at first. But everytime I got pressure in that region, I just loosened my jaw and it would go away. Evertime.

 

Muscle Tightness causes Pressure
Tightness in the jaw can cause such pressure when you are meditating. It's either the jaw or other muscles in the face that become tight and they cause that pressure feeling.

Sinus infection can also cause such pressure it but I didn't have that and if you don't then it is this tightness and tension in the face that is causing the pressure.

Btw do you see why you would find it difficult to breath and get a headache if some of the muscles in your face, jaw and neck are tight?

It is important to loosen all these muscles by proper stretching (yes you can stretch and loosen your jaw muscle). I think while meditating we tend to strain our facial muscles, by putting in effort into the dhyan. Some people even up straining their eye muscles.

Your eyes should be relaxed and still while you meditate. The movement of your eyes is unimportant what matters is where your attention is, what matters is where you are concentrating.

 

How do you know where you dhyan/attention is?

You should not need to do this.

You should not strain your eye muscles ever. That can cause problems. Keep your eyes relaxed and still, and if they get tense then loosen them up by rolling your eyeballs around and stretching all the muscles.

Stop looking with your eyes, instead try to develop an awareness of your entire body, of each limb, each area of the torso where we describe the chakras to be, each finger, etc, without physically looking there.

You know the shape of your body and you should be able to tell where you are focusing in on the body. meditating on the body is whole different field of meditation. However for naam japna, just do a basic body scan, and become aware of the shape of the body and then go back to focusing on the mantra.

That's only if you want to focus on a body part while naam japna. This is not a requirement. Naam japna can be done with full concentration in the dhwani, the vibration of it.

Other variations include -
- Becoming aware of the sound vibration as it vibrates in the body.
- Chanting with others and focusing on the entire dhwani/vibration generated by everyone instead of just your own.

 

How do you know if you are meditating on a chakra?

There are many ways of meditating on chakra. But what I consider the highest meditation, mastery level, is to dwell in the region of the chakra.

To be able to move the locus of your awareness to those regions.

 

What is a locus of awareness? locus of consciousness?

It is the seat of consciousness in the body. The default position for it is in the head, in the agya chakra.

When you are able to concentrate well enough, you can move this seat into your belly, your heart, your feet, etc. Then it will seem as if you are located in your belly and your head is above you.

You can even move this locus of awareness above your head, and outside of the body. When you do that then it is known as an Out of Body Experience.

I see. I noticed my eyes looking at the nose naturally when I would put my dhyan in the dhun of Vahe-Guru from my mouth. I did it about 8 hours a day and there was no strain. Later on I met some other yogis that would just meditate by looking at the tip of their nose which I found was interesting because my eyes would go there when I did the meditation. A coincidence probably I guess. It's not complicated, just a matter of us awakening the Kundalini shakti through naam japna. There are many techniques to do it. I'm using the one my grandpa told me to use. I saw some other thread about the 5 elements and some blah blah blah. End of the day all you need to do is naam japna. You will realize everything, no need to get into useless stuff like visualizations and meditating on some element. I trust what my grandpa says because.. His whole life has revolved around self-realization. He would sit in a room and do naam simran 10 hours a day when he was younger. His family when he was younger were hand in hand with bhai randhir singh ji and his family. So my grandpa spent lots of time around bhai randhir singh. He only sleeps 2 hours a day. He told me about our true home. He told me about all the places he has been spiritually. He told me about the many heavens and many hells he has been too and seen. Countless stories. He went to one place where the people there gave him some food and its taste was beyond anything we have at Earth. I remember reading a similar story about Guru Nanak. He told me about all the things he can see that normal people can't. Apparently there are many parallel universes. There is so much life even in this universe. He pointed to the sky and told me it is filled with life. Then he pointed to his dahi(yogurt) and told me he sees all these living things in it. I remembered reading in science that yogurt has billions of living things in it. He can see ghosts, jamdhoot, angels and so many other living things. My mama(uncle) leads a really bad lifestyle. My grandpa told me there were always jamdhoot around him and infront of the house. I believed everything he said but what made my belief 100% was when he was explaining to me how the design of Golden Temple by Guru Arjan Dev Ji was made in the same spiritual design as the human head. He touched the back of my head while he was explaining to me the human head and Golden Temple spiritual design. Then I went back to my mamas house to lay down. When I laid down I felt all the Kundalini shakti shooting up my spine and it was an amazing feeling. I had never experienced anand like that before. He really opened up my consciousness of what is reality. I know there is this idea everyone should hide their experiences but him openly sharing his experiences with me really opened me up. I've seen many posts on this forum where people talk about things but you can tell they just read or heard about it somewhere. I only talk about what I know. My grandpa was a real source not something I read about in a book or on Google. If a person is serious about spiritually awakening they should find people who are already spiritually awakened and a place where they can do naam japna with sangat. I plan on going to a place like this and spending 6 months of my life in that environment doing naam japna before I continue my life. My grandpa told me he speaks to God. I remember Kabir in Kabirs bani he talks about speaking to God as well. So I asked him, "Who is god?" There was a bucket of water next to us and he told me to go look in the bucket of water. I did. Then he told me the reflection is God. I still don't understand what he was saying. I hope one day I will know.

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4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I've seen many posts on this forum where people talk about things but you can tell they just read or heard about it somewhere. I only talk about what I know.

LOL!   Really?? How can you tell? ;)

 

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7 hours ago, Lucky said:

LOL!   Really?? How can you tell? ;)

 

I'm not talking about you man. I know I referenced your 5 tat thread. You can tell some people read or heard what they post somewhere because they say they heard it in a katha or read it somewhere. I worded it wrong, sorry. I didn't mean I can tell people read or heard it somewhere without them stating it. Sorry, I got lots of respect for you man. I read some of your posts back when I was getting into sikhism and spirituality years ago. Your posts really helped push me in this direction. I was lurking and reading your posts a long time ago. I just felt it was unecessary and useless to have to meditate and visualize elements from my point of view. My grandpa did tell me about the 5 elements but I don't remember much. I think naam japna will detach you from the 5 elements and you don't need to meditate on or visualize them. I got a lot of love for you though mate ❤ you're like a big brother to me without knowing. You and Sat. I will question what I feel is not right though. I'd love to hear your point of view though I got lots of respect for you so it seems weird questioning you. I do trust the kathavachak below mysimran.info and I found one of his vids where he talks about the 5 elements.

 

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On 6/18/2016 at 4:17 PM, HappyDays said:

Guru Nanak Dev Ji maharaj gave us naam simran which utilizes mantra, dhyan and pranayam. It is extremely powerful with all that combined. First my grandpa taught me everything is within the body. You should learn to properly breathe from your diaphragm if you don't know how. Stay conscious of yourself properly breathing from the diaphragm throughout the day. To see if you breathe properly take a deep breath. If you breathe properly your shoulders should not have gone up only the belly should expand and contract. <---- this is just proper breathing to always keep you relaxed. Now on to the meditation part. Realize your journey is from naabhi to trikuti. First month I sat down with my dhyan on the naabhi to train my dhyan. The middle of my chest where the heart is and God resides is another place I really enjoyed putting my dhyan like when I would fall asleep. Once your dhyan is trained then nothing can distract your mind. Many people complain that they cannot focus but that is due to their dhyan not being properly trained. Most people don't know how to properly enter the Naabhi. To enter the Naabhi put your dhyan at the bottom of your belly button and keep it there. If you put your finger straight in your belly button it would be the area the bottom of your finger touches. Do this for 15 minutes per day for a month. Soon your dhyan will become so powerful you immediately go into a extremely relaxed state perfect for naam japna the moment you put your dhyan at the naabhi. Pranayama will happen naturally with mantra you just need to re-wire your mind backwards. Naturally navel goes out when you say Vahe and in with Guru but you need to change to Vahe gentle natural pull navel in a bit and Guru it goes out. You will notice then you won't get tired either. Everytime you sit down for naam japna. First you stabilize your sit bones into a comfortable position. Then you start with putting Dhyan at the bottom of the belly button for 5 minutes while staying silent then you start the naam japna out loud Vahe-Guru, Vahe-Guru. After about 5 minutes of jaap bring your dhyan from bottom of the belly button to your mouth while continuing jaap. You will know your dhyan is at the right place because if you open your eyes you will be looking directly at your nose when your dhyan is on your mukh. "Dhun me dhiaan, Dhiaan mai jaaneya gurmukh akath kahanee." just keep your dhyan on the dhun of Vahe-Guru then. Get the book "Sikhism & Spirituality" by Rabinder Singh Bhamra. Depending on how much effort you put in that'll dictate how long it takes for the Kundalini shakti to awaken in the Naabhi and for person to reach Naam. Takes couple months usually. The method I have told you about will take you all the way. You don't need any other jugti. It's a process of awakening there are no secrets if you put in the work you get the result just like anything else in life. It's good to find some sangat to do it with. 

Thanks for your insight brother.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I see. I noticed my eyes looking at the nose naturally when I would put my dhyan in the dhun of Vahe-Guru from my mouth. I did it about 8 hours a day and there was no strain.

Yea your eyes will naturally go where you place your dhyan, if you place it on your torso or legs, they will look down. If you place it on oyur head or above your head, they will look up. If you place your dhyan in the eyelids or in front of you, they will look straight.

As long as they are not strained, you are good to go.

Quote

Later on I met some other yogis that would just meditate by looking at the tip of their nose which I found was interesting because my eyes would go there when I did the meditation.

Quote

There are many techniques to do it.

Yea there are many places you can place your dhyan and practice concentration.

You can concentrate on
- the tip of your nose
- the air going in and out of your nose
- the sound vibration as you hear it
- the rise and fall of your stomach
- an image your are imagining
- anything
- even elements and visualizations...

Quote

I'm using the one my grandpa told me to use. I saw some other thread about the 5 elements and some blah blah blah. End of the day all you need to do is naam japna. You will realize everything, no need to get into useless stuff like visualizations and meditating on some element.

 

So there are many ways to meditate, even meditating on an element is just practicing of dhyan and attuning yourself with what you are meditating on.

If you are outside, one thing you can do is to try to place your dhyan in a tree, in the air or wind, in the water bodies, etc.

Pull the dhyan way from the body and yourself and bring it into the tree. Become one with what you are meditating on. 

Get comfortable and try to move your locus of awareness into the tree. Be the tree.
 

Quote

I trust what my grandpa says because.. His whole life has revolved around self-realization. He would sit in a room and do naam simran 10 hours a day when he was younger. His family when he was younger were hand in hand with bhai randhir singh ji and his family. So my grandpa spent lots of time around bhai randhir singh. He only sleeps 2 hours a day. He told me about our true home. He told me about all the places he has been spiritually. He told me about the many heavens and many hells he has been too and seen. Countless stories. He went to one place where the people there gave him some food and its taste was beyond anything we have at Earth. I remember reading a similar story about Guru Nanak. He told me about all the things he can see that normal people can't. Apparently there are many parallel universes. There is so much life even in this universe. He pointed to the sky and told me it is filled with life. Then he pointed to his dahi(yogurt) and told me he sees all these living things in it. I remembered reading in science that yogurt has billions of living things in it. He can see ghosts, jamdhoot, angels and so many other living things. My mama(uncle) leads a really bad lifestyle. My grandpa told me there were always jamdhoot around him and infront of the house. I believed everything he said but what made my belief 100% was when he was explaining to me how the design of Golden Temple by Guru Arjan Dev Ji was made in the same spiritual design as the human head.

 

Your grandpa is someone I would like to meet and discuss with. Where does he live?
 

Quote

He touched the back of my head while he was explaining to me the human head and Golden Temple spiritual design. Then I went back to my mamas house to lay down. When I laid down I felt all the Kundalini shakti shooting up my spine and it was an amazing feeling. I had never experienced anand like that before. He really opened up my consciousness of what is reality. I know there is this idea everyone should hide their experiences but him openly sharing his experiences with me really opened me up. I've seen many posts on this forum where people talk about things but you can tell they just read or heard about it somewhere.

 

It's important to be clear about what you have an experience with and what you have heard or read. Also many spiritual folks watch a lot of dharma talks on youtube or listen to katha, etc. For each hour of katha you listen to, you should do several hours of meditation and experience the things described in the spiritual lecture. However they do not follow those up with practice. They don't try to experience and yet still talk about such things as if it was their experience.

Those that say they heard it somewhere are better off because they are being honest about their approach to this. however they are still worse off than those are actually practicing and trying to achieve those states

 

Quote

I know there is this idea everyone should hide their experiences

What they think they are doing is preventing their ahankar from rising. And there is some truth to that because ahankar can flair up when someone talks about themselves.

But what they are actually doing is preventing any sort of analysis in to what they are experiencing. They might get criticized by some so they are preventing their ahankar from getting hurt by criticism.

If you don't share your experience, no one can help you progress. If someone is more advanced than you, they will be able to see where you stand and where you need to go and how to get there, simply by getting a good account of your experiences.

There is tremendous learning potential from sharing experiences, but it's important to share with those whom you trust.

 

Quote

I only talk about what I know. 

You can talk about what you know and what you have heard, as long as you are clear about the distinction.

There is belief and then there is knowledge. People are not clear about the distinction between the two. They confuse beliefs for knowledge.


 

Quote

My grandpa was a real source not something I read about in a book or on Google. If a person is serious about spiritually awakening they should find people who are already spiritually awakened and a place where they can do naam japna with sangat. I plan on going to a place like this and spending 6 months of my life in that environment doing naam japna before I continue my life. My grandpa told me he speaks to God. I remember Kabir in Kabirs bani he talks about speaking to God as well. So I asked him, "Who is god?" There was a bucket of water next to us and he told me to go look in the bucket of water. I did. Then he told me the reflection is God. I still don't understand what he was saying. I hope one day I will know.

 

I think your grandpa and I would have some interesting conversations.

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18 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Your grandpa is someone I would like to meet and dicuss with. Where does he live? I think your grandpa and I would have some interesting conversations.

My grandpa lives in Punjab. I'm just a beginner who doesn't know anything but he taught me all I need for now and gave me some really deep insight. For you a spiritually more experienced person he could give insight on what you need to do to get to the next stage if you don't know the path. I'm not sure if I should post his address on the internet though. It's going to be weird if someone goes up to him and mentions I gave his address. Then they start asking about his spiritual experiences and stuff. I would be cool with people going to him and talking about what stage they're at and how they can get to the next stage though.

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6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I'm not talking about you man. I know I referenced your 5 tat thread. You can tell some people read or heard what they post somewhere because they say they heard it in a katha or read it somewhere. I worded it wrong, sorry. I didn't mean I can tell people read or heard it somewhere without them stating it. Sorry, I got lots of respect for you man. I read some of your posts back when I was getting into sikhism and spirituality years ago. Your posts really helped push me in this direction. I was lurking and reading your posts a long time ago. I just felt it was unecessary and useless to have to meditate and visualize elements from my point of view. My grandpa did tell me about the 5 elements but I don't remember much. I think naam japna will detach you from the 5 elements and you ..........

 

I was just kidding you, I'm not the slightest offended. But yes, there are quite a lot of people that speculate and don't actually do anything. You may have misunderstood the 5 tat post because I wasn't talking about visualisations at all. I was clarifying that in gurmat, we start with Air element via pranayama/ saas saas, and the others follow automatically as we continue. It was only when someone asked if you can isolate and attend a different one, and that is when I mentioned the visualisations that yogis use in mountains of Tibet and Himalayas. <- Nothing to do with gurbani messages that I was referring to.

 

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@HappyDays

I must say that your Grandfather has given you some very interesting points and I understand most of what you have written. He has only revealed the "tip" of the iceberg, because common man wouldn't understand the rest. Seeing the yoghurt alive and everything else, is not exactly what you or most people would interpret -It's not microscopic vision as such or x-ray..... it's actually seeing it alive, active and vibrating. Very difficult to ever explain. I too, have had this perception for a while and I know exactly what he was talking about. It's not just stuff with microorganisms, it is in act everything around you. It actually ties in with the 5 tat thread that was inspired by Bhagat after he mentioned something along the lines of .."existence being continuous and in constant motion from moment to moment"  This is because all existence is made up of 5 elements, except the "Truth" behind the veil.

 You won't understand the water in the bucket until you start  'cleaning' your mind and holding it still. Most of the things you stated, take real experience to understand. It's as if you get there, then feel or see something, and you say to yourself  "This is what he meant by the dhayeen being alive, man, I know what he was saying" .

We can all "live" the experience, instead of hearing or interpreting it.

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24 minutes ago, Lucky said:

@HappyDays

I must say that your Grandfather has given you some very interesting points and I understand most of what you have written. He has only revealed the "tip" of the iceberg, because common man wouldn't understand the rest. Seeing the yoghurt alive and everything else, is not exactly what you or most people would interpret -It's not microscopic vision as such or x-ray..... it's actually seeing it alive, active and vibrating. Very difficult to ever explain. I too, have had this perception for a while and I know exactly what he was talking about. It's not just stuff with microorganisms, it is in act everything around you. It actually ties in with the 5 tat thread that was inspired by Bhagat after he mentioned something along the lines of .."existence being continuous and in constant motion from moment to moment"  This is because all existence is made up of 5 elements, except the "Truth" behind the veil.

 You won't understand the water in the bucket until you start  'cleaning' your mind and holding it still. Most of the things you stated, take real experience to understand. It's as if you get there, then feel or see something, and you say to yourself  "This is what he meant by the dhayeen being alive, man, I know what he was saying" .

We can all "live" the experience, instead of hearing or interpreting it.

 

25 minutes ago, Lucky said:

@HappyDays

I must say that your Grandfather has given you some very interesting points and I understand most of what you have written. He has only revealed the "tip" of the iceberg, because common man wouldn't understand the rest. Seeing the yoghurt alive and everything else, is not exactly what you or most people would interpret -It's not microscopic vision as such or x-ray..... it's actually seeing it alive, active and vibrating. Very difficult to ever explain. I too, have had this perception for a while and I know exactly what he was talking about. It's not just stuff with microorganisms, it is in act everything around you. It actually ties in with the 5 tat thread that was inspired by Bhagat after he mentioned something along the lines of .."existence being continuous and in constant motion from moment to moment"  This is because all existence is made up of 5 elements, except the "Truth" behind the veil.

 You won't understand the water in the bucket until you start  'cleaning' your mind and holding it still. Most of the things you stated, take real experience to understand. It's as if you get there, then feel or see something, and you say to yourself  "This is what he meant by the dhayeen being alive, man, I know what he was saying" .

We can all "live" the experience, instead of hearing or interpreting it.

Thanks for the clarification on the misunderstanding veer ji and the input on the things my grandpa told me. I'm going to work really hard with naam japna so I can get personal experience as well. I pray that I stay strong and kirpa happens on me as well. Fingers crossed. Apne karam ki gat main kya jaano.

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