Salok Japji Sahib Antreev Arth

[PAL 07]

Pavan Guru = Mind

Panee Pita = Body

Mata Dharta= Karma

Divas Raat = Time

Kele sagal jagat= Actions

Changiaya= spiritual progress

buriaya= spiritual unprogress

vacheh dharm hazur= The law of Karma

karmi apo apnee= You have free will

ke nere ke door= With the ending of one life span you have either got closer to your atma or have gone further away toward object world ( lack chaurasee human to stone)

Edited February 13, 2014 by PAL 07

[das]

Pal bhaji, could you please let us know the reference from where you took the arths. If it's from Sant/Mahapurash, then either you have misunderstood the meanings OR meri mand bhudi and karams are putting a curtain on me and therefore I'm not able to grasp it correctly.

As per my understanding as of now; Mind cannot be Guru in any case.

The Guru is the Pavan: which is the power with which everything works; without it nothing (nothing in universe) can work, but it is neither Air nor Oxygen. It is the Prana energy (Neutral energy of God) which flows on the Air and charges everybody. It is also called the "Breath of Life" and [[----Sound is also produced from Prana----- - trying to find reference]]. Once it (Prana) is out then we're dead and it remains in the body as long as it is ordered by Kaal.

ਪਵਣੈ ਕੈ ਵਸਿ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਸਚੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥੫॥
The body is under the power of the breath, according to the True Sign inscribed upon your forehead. ||5||

Secondly, Prana energy is the main force (river/source) from which 2 other rivers are born: Sun and Moon energy.

In other words, energy must have a center to move from and an objective to flow to. So, we’ve a ‘Breath of Life’ called Prana (Pavan) which is the source of the 2 forces (Sun/Moon) working in this universe. These twin forces operate in all created forms, for without these two factors, neither function nor perpetuation of forms would be possible. These two forces constantly flow out of each other and into each other to sustain the function called Life. The inter-play of these two cosmic essences functioning as four rivers (Air, Fire, Water, and Earth) of attraction and repulsion is called the Life.

1. 1.Air and Warmth principle Above (Sun Principle): It is Positive, Yang, Male, Sun principle, Outgoing, Expanding, and Radiating. These are also called Father (Air) and Son (Fire) principle.
   
2. 2.Moon (Water) and Earth principle Below (Moon Principle): It is Negative, Yin, Feminine, Moon principle, Contraction, Concentration and Resistance. These are also called Mother (Moon/Water) and Daughter (Earth) principle.

Bottom line is that: Prana is the main source of everything and therefore it is our Guru; and we’re made up of 5 basic elements (which are derived from the interplay of 2 cosmic forces which were also derived from one basic Prana energy). Water sustains us; basically human body is 70% water. Earth is our mother because she carries our burden and gives us everything to eat (vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts etc).

Parpanch

This whole world is Parpanch i.e just the 5 things: Naam (Name), Roop (Form), Sat (Truth/God), Chit (Pure Consciouness), Anand (Supreme Bliss). These are the five things that are famously known as the 'world'. Out of these, Naam and Roop are destructible and bound to go through transformations. Sat-Chitt-Anand is sweetness, it neither dies nor transforms. This rass is called by names like Waheguru or Parmatma or Khuda or God.

Naam and Roop are composed of five basic elements - Earth, Water, Fire, Air, and Space. These five elements are tangible (matter) and everything in 2nd and 3rd division are made up of various combinations of these 5 basic elements, while Sat-Chitt-Anand is the true self of everyone. Sat-Chit-Ananda is not 3 different things. It is different dimensions of 1 thing. Immortal, eternal and unchanging. The body has been given to this self for a limited time, upon which it will be taken away (known as death).

Edited February 13, 2014 by das

[PAL 07]

THE ARTH I MADE MYSELF GURBANI IS AGAD BODH, BRAHM GYAAN/VEECHAR IS AGAD BODH

I agree withwhat you have written because you have provided a scientific answer to the construction of the universe, however my take is a spiriual look at Japji sahib salok

Pavan Guru = Mind...Ke Sahib Dimag Hai (Jaap Sahib), We are essentally the mind, the mind creates dream world, the mind creates this world. Also air/breath/pran/ has a deep relationship with the mind as they are acutely intertwined thats why i say Pavan Guru = Mind

Panee Pita = Body... Pehla Paane jeo hai jit haria sab hoe (Asa Ki Var) from water came matter and creation etc

Mata Dharta= Karma ..... dhartee equals earth - (the earth within us) (antishkaran) in which we sow actions (karma)

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TWO THINGS I DISAGREE WITH YOU UPON

The Guru is the Pavan: which is the power with which everything works; without it nothing (nothing in universe) can work, but it is neither Air nor Oxygen - THIS CANNOT BE RIGHT BECAUSE GOD DOESNT HAVE ANY Prana energy FORM OR OBJECTIVITY, YOU ARE REFERRING TO SHAKTI BUT SHIV HAS NOTHING OF ANY ENERGY OR MATTER ETC....HOWEVER GOD IS THE MIND (COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS)

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ਪਵਣੈ ਕੈ ਵਸਿ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਸਚੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥੫॥
The body is under the power of the breath, according to the True Sign inscribed upon your forehead. ||5|

However prabh paveh bin saas te rakeh Sukhmani Sahib

Edited February 13, 2014 by PAL 07

[das]

It seems like you might be referring to Mind which in main stream is not called Mind; Your definition seems like everything exists because of Mind (Saab Dimag ha) and that is right because this material world is the play of Mind and Maya.

But core definition of Mind is: Mind means a catalogue of thinking, a series of thoughts. It is an obstacle for the ignorant, and a means for the wise. It is the cause of both bondage and liberation. It is the mind that is in direct control of the thoughts, senses, breath, and body (including all diseases). Mind does have its boundary. It cannot go beyond its limit; but there is something beyond the mind. The functioning of Mind is also dependent on the Prana.

So, keeping the above definition of 'Mind' in mind, I can say that Mind cannot be Guru. We are Souls and not bodies, not mind, not thoughts. Mind is the instrument; Consciousness (Soul) is the power; Body is the vehicle. Soul provides energy (Prana) to Mind to operate; and Mind controls the Breath and Body.

Secondly, do not mix Prana with Air or Breath. Saas (Breath) is not Prana (Breath of Life) . Prana is just another word for the spirit energy (or cosmic energy) of God and It is the very essence that one's soul is made of. Prana is the food that builds the soul body as it draws energy directly from God. As it is God's energy and therefore God can provide any person additional prana in order to sustain him.

But if you stick with your approach that Mind is Guru and then it is entirely up to you. The following article has helped and it might also help you: "Mind and its Modifications": http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/2

[PAL 07]

The most ironic thing is that we all talk about spirituality/religion yet we are unqualified in the subject. only a Mahapurkh can tell you the answers to yours questions, so therefore i have only very limited understanding and probably am wrong i half the stuff i say. This katha by sant gurbachan singh is useful

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_%28Bhindran_wale%29/Guru_Granth_Sahib_Larivaar_Katha/Volume_04_Ang_0250-0346/35-Sant.Gurbachan.Singh--Raag.Gourhi--Ang.290%2B291.%28Sukhmani.Sahib%29.mp3

what do you think of the following shabads

kaho kabeer me so gur paya, ja ka na bibeko - "says kabeer i have obtained that guru which is divine mind"

Bibek Budh Satgur Te Paee - " divine mind is obtained from the Guru"

Thanks for the link to that website also have you seen the following documentary on the life of a Bramgiani Mahpursh

Edited February 14, 2014 by PAL 07

[das]

I've listened to the Katha as you have posted and it seems like I was right in saying that you are referring to the God (when HE was only present) as "Mind (Cosmic Consciousness)". You are right in your concept/understanding but have used very wrong name for the God. I would request you to please do NOT mix newAge terms with your understanding OR else please study it througly before using those terms. NewAge terminology does some times use "Universal/Cosmic Mind" referrring to God and/or Kaal (depending upon what you're reading).

Again, your understanding is right that HE (God) is the cause of everything but do not use the term as "Mind" because 'Mind' in english terminology is reserved for 'Kaal' (thinking facility).

Also, we can say that: Mind has 4 phases: Waking/Conscious/Gross, Dreaming/Unconscious/Subtle, Deep-Sleep/Subconscious/Causal, Turiya/Turiya/Absoule-Reality (This we can say is God).

(Vivek Bhud/Bhudi): It is the ability to discriminate between the permanent and the impermanent. Atma/Soul is truth/permanent; Body and this world are false/impermanent and painful because they are changing. I am Soul and not Body. This is called Vivek. And this Vivek Bhud (Mind) is attained only by the the Guru as your reference Shabad has explained.

In-fact, as per this Shabad "Vivek Bhud Guru Te Pai" means Vivek Mind is given by Guru, then please ponder upon who is Guru: Vivek Mind (good thinking facility) is the grace of Guru but it (Vivek Mind) is not Guru itself.

Edited February 14, 2014 by das

[Jonny101]

THE ARTH I MADE MYSELF GURBANI IS AGAD BODH, BRAHM GYAAN/VEECHAR IS AGAD BODH

Antreev Arth can only be derived by Brahmgiani Mahapursh since their spiritual level is at that point. One should not attempt at doing Antreev Arth on their own if they have not reached that spiritual state. Until then it is best to listen to arths done in the Katha of Mahapursh like Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale and others who have gained high level of spiritual wisdom.