Response To Sher

[tonyhp32]

On the thread

'Sher' wrote-;

why the names of rama randhawas, Ala Singh, Arur Singh, Brar soldiers of Guru Gobind Singh, sandhawalia brothers, Nabha/faridkot/kapurthala/patiala 'nobles' (!!), kahan singh, Bhai Vir Singh, singh sabha lackeys, lakhs of soldiers who fought for the British against their own compatriots from 1857 onwards... are missing?

This was in response to my post that Kuldeep Brar is a traitor whose name will become a byword for treachery,

Rama Randhawa - a Hindu Jat chaudhary who joined the Mughals in hunting down Sikhs in the 18th century. Can he be classed a traitor? No because he had no allegiance to Sikhism. This would be like saying Mir Mannu was a traitor!

Ala Singh - A Sikh who created Patiala state and at times showed allegiance to Abdali but never took part in any campaign against the Dal Khalsa. Is he a traitor? Yes, but does his treachery against the political goals of the Sikhs amount to the same as Brar's? No because he never physically attacked the Sikhs or their religious shrines.

Arur Singh - Sarbrah who honoured Dyer. Was he a traitor? Yes, but was of the same class as Brar? No if anything his honouring of Brar gave the Sikhs another reason to believe that the Gurdwaras needed to be taken back from the control of the government.

Brar soldiers - they fell out with the Guru over pay. Same level of treachery? No

Sandhawalia brothers - started the regicide in Lahore - same level of treachery? No, they did this to take control themselves, their actions destabilised Lahore state.

Kahan Singh, Vir Singh - 'Sher' has been reading too many admin cut websites. These scholars saved Sikhi from being submerged into Hinduism. If it was not for them all Gurdwaras would have had some hindu idols as well as the Guru Granth Sahib. Traitors? Of course not but it shows 'Sher's' mentality. Post the names of some minor traitors and then post the names of Sikhs who have done the most for the Panth and attempt to blacken their names.

[aksantali]

just ignore the troll no point in having a discussion with him.

[chatanga1]

or realises that there's no point in discussing anything with a punjabi hindu. after all if a punjabi hindu can sell his mother and still feel like he has done something to be proud of, i can understand why.

[chatanga1]

There is no record of Punjabi Hindus selling their mother

Point proven. thank you, you mother-selling panjabi hindu.

[Guest]

Ok guys enough of personal attacks, give it a rest. Topic will be locked otherwise.

[tonyhp32]

I think Sher and his ilk prove again and again why Khalistan will be a reality someday. How can two people exist in Punjab where one's heroes are the villains of the other and vice versa. The Punjab Hindus think of Sant Bhindranwale as a Sikh terrorist and the Sikhs think of him as a great leader and the greatest Sikh of the 20th century. The Punjabi Hindus think of Indira as a great saviour of the Hindus and call her Durga. We all know what the Sikhs think of her. So hence why Khalistan is inevitable and no amount of Sher's deriding the independence movement can stop it becoming a reality.

[Guest]

Lo! Ik hor evidence why Khalistan would never become a reality

BTW, the whole world calls JSB a terrorist or an extremist. How can someone who said (or fantasised too loudly and publicly) i would butcher 5,000 innocent Hindus just to get a bus released or who denigrated whole community in his every inflammatory speech?

a show of the reality was given in front of Akal Takht on Friday morning.

This is very good researched article on amar shaheed sant jarnail singh bhindranwale:

http://www.sikhfreedom.com/sant-jarnail-singh-bhindranwale

Personally speaking - i do have issues with this author regarding his other works but this article is well research with bibliography cited:

http://www.sikhfreedom.com/sant-jarnail-singh-bhindranwale

[SanatanRecluse]

I think Sher and his ilk prove again and again why Khalistan will be a reality someday. How can two people exist in Punjab where one's heroes are the villains of the other and vice versa. The Punjab Hindus think of Sant Bhindranwale as a Sikh terrorist and the Sikhs think of him as a great leader and the greatest Sikh of the 20th century. The Punjabi Hindus think of Indira as a great saviour of the Hindus and call her Durga. We all know what the Sikhs think of her. So hence why Khalistan is inevitable and no amount of Sher's deriding the independence movement can stop it becoming a reality.

Please don't speak on behalf of all Hindus and Sikhs, speak on behalf of yourself.

As a sikh I dislike JSB and Indira. Both were far too reckless to be in positions of power. Both have had myths built around them which are false. Both have a cult of personality which adores them. Both were at fault for the bloodshed. Both were obsessed with their own legacy at the cost of the people.

[Guest]

Please read the article its very detailed with lot of misunderstanding clear.

[aksantali]

ahh i remember the time when i use to despise sant jarnail singh......

[Amandeep Hindustani]

or realises that there's no point in discussing anything with a punjabi hindu. after all if a punjabi hindu can sell his mother and still feel like he has done something to be proud of, i can understand why.

Are you the same that sided with the British?

[Amandeep Hindustani]

For those that are proposing the division of Punjab from India - what make you think punjab itself cannot be divided by district, pind and city?

[tonyhp32]

Are you the same that sided with the British?

Yes, the Sikhs sided with the British ti prevent the formation of Mughal rule again in India. How many Punjabi Hindus fought against the British rule in 1857?

[tonyhp32]

Come of Sher, where were your Hindu Punjabi soormay who were three times in number to the number of Sikhs in 1857? Punjab history since the 1700s is Sikh history. The Hindu Punjabi is nowhere in history apart from the one high point of a Hindu neta having a heart attack when faced with a police lathi! The Hindu Punjabi with his typical bombast call that fool 'Sher-i-Punjab' !

The British 'allowed' Maharaja Ranjit Singh to form his empire? Only a fool would have that take on the treaty of 1809. But then your whole object is to downgrade the contributions of the Sikhs and play up those of non-Punjabi Hindus such as the Marathas. It's not really surprising your people through their actions in the last 60 years are so rootless in Punjab. Had the Kharkoos had the scheme of kicking out the section of the Hindu Punjabis who have your type of views, the mahashas, few threats and a few killings would have achieved just what the Kashmiris did to the Kashmiri Pandits. Although the Kashmiris Pandits do not deserve their fate as they have as much respect and regard for Kashmiriat which is the exact opposite of what Hindu Punjabi like you have for Punjabiat.

The Lahore state a buffer state? Yes, a state that controlled an area the size of France and that was able to defeat the Gurkhas, the Afghans and give a good account against the British.

Edited June 7, 2014 by tonyhp32

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Yes, the Sikhs sided with the British ti prevent the formation of Mughal rule again in India. How many Punjabi Hindus fought against the British rule in 1857?

I disagree. You sided with the British because they gave you goodies. Your history is full of changing sides.

Moghuls

Rajputs

Marathas

Moghuls again..

British

French

India

Pakistan

India again..

Pakistan again..

Am I missing anybody?

[Amandeep Hindustani]

ahh i remember the time when i use to despise sant jarnail singh......

I still despise him.

[SanatanRecluse]

ahh i remember the time when i use to despise sant jarnail singh......

It seems we swapped places.

[tonyhp32]

I disagree. You sided with the British because they gave you goodies. Your history is full of changing sides.

Moghuls

Rajputs

Marathas

Moghuls again..

British

French

India

Pakistan

India again..

Pakistan again..

Am I missing anybody?

OK genius what goodies did the British give to the Sikhs before 1857. You make a lot of stupid statements so come up with an answer to this one.

As for the list, each Nation makes alliances based on the circumstances it finds itself in. So what has happened to India's alliances? It was Chini-Chini Bhai Bhai prior to 1962. India was the best friends of the Arabs and Yasser Arafat was Indira Gandhi's favourite terrorist but now India is Israel's best friend. Get the picture you amateur.

[aksantali]

we need to look at things from both sides man....i use to be heavy influenced by indian media...most of my family hates sant ji and are against khalistan because they've only heard what the indian media as said about him and the whole movement....they don't even know anything about dharam yudh morcha and ananddpur sahib resolution...

can you guys please share why you guys hate sant ji i would like to know the reasons...

Edited June 8, 2014 by aksantali

[tonyhp32]

You have to understand the mentality of a section of the Hindu Punjabis to understand why they consider Sant Bhindranwale a terrorist. They are deeply insecure and it is their actions that have made them insecure. You only have to look at the history of Punjab after 1700. It is Sikh history. Buffoons like that Hindustani guy have to make outrageous claims about Bhagat Singh being a 'Hindu Punjabi warrior' just to give himself something to be proud off in the last 300 years. The Sikhs were at best 5-10% of Punjab and were yet able to control large areas of Punjab and not only this but large areas which were populated by Muslims. They created the first Punjabi state since the Muslim invasions. Look at this from the point of view of the Hindus. They were equal in number to the Muslims at that time and yet the best they could do was to have a few Hindu chaudharies. Where are the Hindu Misldars? The times were ripe for adventurous men to create their ow rule in the areas where at least their own co-religionists were in a majority. The Hindu Rajputs in the Hills tried to extend their rule in those troubled times and the Hindu Jats in Haryana were able to create their own rule. So where is the Hindu Punjabi in all this? Having a history where you are ruled by one minority for 700 years and another minority for another 100 years cannot but make the Hindu Punjabi a deeply insecure people. This insecurity continued during the British rule as they lost large numbers of converts to the Sikhs. They were viewed as cowardly and lost the last remnants of a martial class amongst them (Hindu Jats) to the Sikhs during British times. So now all the Hindu Punjabi have is the so-called higher castes, Brahmin, Khatri/Arora and Banias and the lower castes. The Hindus have lost their lower castes already to Raviassia religion and most of the Hindu lower castes have a mixture of Sikh beliefs along with Hindu beliefs.

Their own sense of unity can only come out of treating the Sikh majority in Punjab as their enemy. Hence the way the Bandar Sena and other Sikh organisations hate Sant Bhindranwale. Because Santji is a Sikh hero then he has to be hated to create a unity in the Hindu Punjabi. Because of this enmity anything that is to the detriment of the Sikhs has to be to the advantage of the Hindu Punjabi. So for this reason they distribute laddos after Bluestar. Going further back they have to hate the Punjabi language because they Sikhs love and care for that language.

After 1947 the Hindu Punjab who for the last 1000 years had been a slave to all suddenly became the ruling class in Punjab. When you put insecure people in power then do not be surprised if they act strangely. They disowned Punjabi and fought tooth and nail to deny Punjabi language the state to which it was entitled. After their actions these frustrated and envious people are now minorities in all the three states that came out of East Punjab. They play second fiddle to the Sikhs in Punjab, the Paharis in Himachal and the Hindu Jats in Haryana. If they had used their brains they would have been a majority in the Punjabi state which would have included Northern Haryana and Kangra-Una areas of Himachal. So after this massive own goal all they have as their reason for existence in Punjab is their enmity for the Sikhs. That's why they hate the Sikhs and Sant Bhindranwale.

Edited June 8, 2014 by tonyhp32

[chatanga1]

BTW, the whole world calls JSB a terrorist or an extremist.

doesn't mean anything, the world and it's dog called Nelson Mandela the same.

As a sikh I dislike JSB .

give us examples why?

Are you the same that sided with the British?

are you the same that sided with the british a decade before ?

[tonyhp32]

It's not only Hindu Punjabis who consider JSB to be a terrorist.

An overwhelming number of writers (inc Sikhs) have condemned him for his exclusive and extremist interpretation of Sikhi, his denigration of everything Hindu, his killer squads and most importantly the way he pushed Punjab into anarchy for nearly 15 years leading to the deaths of ten of thousands.

If Indira gandhi is responsible for the botched Op Blue star,JSB is equally responsible for hiding in Harmandar sahib complex. if he believed in martial, warrior traditions of the Sikhs, he should have chosen a battle ground other than a temple and away from civilian areas. each and every speech of his urged khalsa youth to arm themselves and take law in their hands.

I can go right back to the events on 13 April 1978 when he addressed AkJ, taksal and other puratan singhs in harmandar sahib and gave a fiery speech vowing to cut Nirankaris to pieces. Akali Minister Jiwan Singh Umranangal tried to intervene but failed to stop a mob armed with traditional weapons marching to stop Nirnakari samagam for which Akali government had given all legal permissions. In the ensuing clash, 13 Singhs and 3 nirankaris died.

The only Sikhs who are critical of Sant Jarnail Singh are those who are tied to the Congress party. Take a straw poll anywhere among Sikhs and the vast majority consider his a freedom fighter. Look at the way that Punjab ground to a standstill in 2012 for Rajoana. You consider him a terrorist but the common Sikhs of Punjab consider him a freedom fighter. This is the reality and only fools like you are blind to it.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

OK genius what goodies did the British give to the Sikhs before 1857. You make a lot of stupid statements so come up with an answer to this one.

As for the list, each Nation makes alliances based on the circumstances it finds itself in. So what has happened to India's alliances? It was Chini-Chini Bhai Bhai prior to 1962. India was the best friends of the Arabs and Yasser Arafat was Indira Gandhi's favourite terrorist but now India is Israel's best friend. Get the picture you amateur.

We never denied that we or certain segments of our population made alliances with known enemies of the country for their own benefit. It happens even today. Then again we don't portray ourselves, like you, as people who did everything for this civilization, did nothing wrong etc..

Traitorous actions are not just part of the christians, muslims, hindus and others. But part and parcel of the sikh community as well.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Amandeep Hindustani

[Amandeep Hindustani]

we need to look at things from both sides man....i use to be heavy influenced by indian media...most of my family hates sant ji and are against khalistan because they've only heard what the indian media as said about him and the whole movement....they don't even know anything about dharam yudh morcha and ananddpur sahib resolution...

can you guys please share why you guys hate sant ji i would like to know the reasons...

Because I remember the speeches coming from the loudspeakers during his day. The utter poison he was putting into his communities mind at the behest of Pakistan was disgusting.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

You have to understand the mentality of a section of the Hindu Punjabis to understand why they consider Sant Bhindranwale a terrorist. They are deeply insecure and it is their actions that have made them insecure. You only have to look at the history of Punjab after 1700. It is Sikh history. Buffoons like that Hindustani guy have to make outrageous claims about Bhagat Singh being a 'Hindu Punjabi warrior' just to give himself something to be proud off in the last 300 years. The Sikhs were at best 5-10% of Punjab and were yet able to control large areas of Punjab and not only this but large areas which were populated by Muslims. They created the first Punjabi state since the Muslim invasions. Look at this from the point of view of the Hindus. They were equal in number to the Muslims at that time and yet the best they could do was to have a few Hindu chaudharies. Where are the Hindu Misldars? The times were ripe for adventurous men to create their ow rule in the areas where at least their own co-religionists were in a majority. The Hindu Rajputs in the Hills tried to extend their rule in those troubled times and the Hindu Jats in Haryana were able to create their own rule. So where is the Hindu Punjabi in all this? Having a history where you are ruled by one minority for 700 years and another minority for another 100 years cannot but make the Hindu Punjabi a deeply insecure people. This insecurity continued during the British rule as they lost large numbers of converts to the Sikhs. They were viewed as cowardly and lost the last remnants of a martial class amongst them (Hindu Jats) to the Sikhs during British times. So now all the Hindu Punjabi have is the so-called higher castes, Brahmin, Khatri/Arora and Banias and the lower castes. The Hindus have lost their lower castes already to Raviassia religion and most of the Hindu lower castes have a mixture of Sikh beliefs along with Hindu beliefs.

Their own sense of unity can only come out of treating the Sikh majority in Punjab as their enemy. Hence the way the Bandar Sena and other Sikh organisations hate Sant Bhindranwale. Because Santji is a Sikh hero then he has to be hated to create a unity in the Hindu Punjabi. Because of this enmity anything that is to the detriment of the Sikhs has to be to the advantage of the Hindu Punjabi. So for this reason they distribute laddos after Bluestar. Going further back they have to hate the Punjabi language because they Sikhs love and care for that language.

After 1947 the Hindu Punjab who for the last 1000 years had been a slave to all suddenly became the ruling class in Punjab. When you put insecure people in power then do not be surprised if they act strangely. They disowned Punjabi and fought tooth and nail to deny Punjabi language the state to which it was entitled. After their actions these frustrated and envious people are now minorities in all the three states that came out of East Punjab. They play second fiddle to the Sikhs in Punjab, the Paharis in Himachal and the Hindu Jats in Haryana. If they had used their brains they would have been a majority in the Punjabi state which would have included Northern Haryana and Kangra-Una areas of Himachal. So after this massive own goal all they have as their reason for existence in Punjab is their enmity for the Sikhs. That's why they hate the Sikhs and Sant Bhindranwale.

Its funny all those you things you cite also apply to your as well. I mean how did a mere 50,000 Hindu troops just take over a state filled with millions of warriors.