Genie Singh Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Sultan Hameed Karu and Guru Nanak. Hameed is a character found in the medina section right after Mecca journey of Bhai Bala and Gian Ratnawali Janamsakhi. Yet historical references seem not to point to such a figure. A guy in that time scale who it might be is this but is there any correlation in names? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selim_I Why doesn't the janamsakhi tradition reflect Sultan Selim and Baba Nanak then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Jathedar can you post the relevant bits from the Janamsakhi? I have never heard of this guy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) page 4 Haisn tab sultan hameed karoo(n)n vee barra zaalm tha hajaa(n) teekr d(o)lt see ... Tae Mardana dovae(n) jannae chalae geae sultan Hameed karoo(n) dae darbar atae aglae http://www.scribd.com/doc/231847969/Medina-vich-Baba-Nanak-Transliteration-Guru-Nanak-Janamsakhi-Medina-from-Bhai-Bala-wale-Janamsakhi Edited July 22, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Tae Mardana dovae(n) jannae chalae geae sultan Hameed karoo(n) dae darbar atae aglae The pages are missing after this line. What if Sultan Hameed Karoon is a local sultan vs Selim who is the sultan of the entire Ottoman empire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) The pages are missing after this line. What if Sultan Hameed Karoon is a local sultan vs Selim who is the sultan of the entire Ottoman empire. it's all there in the scribd attached document go to page 4 on it Madeenae vich ru(n)mk shahir hai roo(n)m ka patshah sultan hameed karoo(n) tha barra Karoo(n) jo aagae mihtr moosae kae zamaanae vich hoeiaa see karu(n)n haru(n)n dono(n) bhaeee Haisn tab sultan hameed karoo(n)n vee barra zaalm tha hajaa(n) teekr d(o)lt see So sabh latt leee thee ta(n) Babae aakhiaa Mardaniaa(n) chalo pahilae patshah kou Mileeaai to eis da bhla hovae nahee(n) ta(n) aglae karoo(n) va(n)goo(n) eih vee halaak Ho(n)daa hovae so karoo(n) patshah ko mileeai mat eis da bhalaa hovae tab Baba ji Tae Mardana dovae(n) jannae chalae geae sultan Hameed karoo(n) dae darbar atae aglae It says Baba went to meet Sultan Hamid Karu in the city of Rum which according to the Gian Ratnawali is held as a separate sakhi apart from Mecca one right after it. According to wikipedia under Selim 1st page Selim I sent his officials to the province of Rum, in north-central Anatolia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Rum Anatolia is in modern day Turkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia Edited July 24, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 It seems there is no Sultan Hamid http://www.theottomans.org/english/family/index.asp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) It seems there is no Sultan Hamid http://www.theottomans.org/english/family/index.asp He appears here aswell, perhaps Muhammadens removed him out of history and we seem to have him accounted for which should suggest some literature referring to him must exist or it's an alias/nickname for him. The geography is confusing because we see a mix of Turkey and Medina which both came under the ottoman empire but are very distinct places in today's world. page 346-350 Baba ji gae rum shair - Baba ji went to the city of Rom (before 346 you have the Mecca sakhi and after 350 you have the Baghdad Sakhi) http://www.scribd.com/doc/209844046/Guru-Nanak-Janamsakhi-Bhai-Mani-Singh-Gian-Ratnawali-Gyan-Ratnavali-in-Gurmukhi-Punjabi Edited July 24, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) It seems there is no Sultan Hamid http://www.theottomans.org/english/family/index.asp If we work with the time scales from this http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/The_Udasis_of_Guru_Nanak#The_five_journeys we get Selim I or at the latest Suleiman the Magnificent assuming these timelines are even correct. Hamid Karu is described as a tyrant who is greedy and Baba ji goes to reform his behaviour Edited July 24, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I think Bhai Mani Singh ji's janamsakhi was based on Bhai Bala ji's janamsakhi. It would be good to get more info on Ottoman kings and their names. For example, Akbar wass not his name until much later, it was Jalal ud din Mohammand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I think Bhai Mani Singh ji's janamsakhi was based on Bhai Bala ji's janamsakhi. It would be good to get more info on Ottoman kings and their names. For example, Akbar wass not his name until much later, it was Jalal ud din Mohammand. To test that theory of alternative names we will need a couple of other sources mainly non-Sikh sources which make reference to that name hamid karu. It is interesting to note the website you gave of the ottomans praises the sultans as being almost perfect since some of them were caliphs (rightful chieftans jathedars after muhammad the prophet) were as on wikipedia with references you will find their characters being flawed, selim on wikipedia is described as angry and almost blood thirsty something more so to the likeness of the character of the mughals hence more believable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidids Hamidids or Hamid Dynasty (Modern Turkish: Hamidoğulları or Hamidoğulları Beyliği) was one of the 14th century Anatolian beyliks that emerged as a consequence of the decline of the Sultanate of Rum and ruled in the regions around Eğirdir and Isparta in southwestern Anatolia. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QjzYdCxumFcC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=Hamido%C4%9Fullar%C4%B1&source=bl&ots=PeV8MdIJzb&sig=chG4oVgJoSEwSXZvM3gRxtAeSI4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3hfSU-OXIPKA7QbzwYGACw&ved=0CHIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Hamido%C4%9Fullar%C4%B1&f=false http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_beyliks It seems local rulers were given the title "bey" Edited July 25, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Oh so there is a Hamid dynasty. But it's (c. 1280–1374) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sunni_Muslim_dynasties that doesn't seem to fit in with the time of Guru Nanak. Perhaps the name Hamid is the name of the dynasty and Karoon is the name of this particular sultan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) The order is Baba ji first goes to Mecca, then Roum, then Baghdad, then Medina and then he goes to visit the Sidhs in the mountains - guys doing funky yoga. http://www.scribd.com/doc/235263430/Gurmukhi-Guru-Nanak-in-City-of-Room-Rom-Rum-Ruom-Bhai-Mani-Singh http://www.scribd.com/doc/235263436/Gurmukhi-Guru-Nanak-in-Medina-Bhai-Mani-Singh Edited July 28, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) There is an interesting piece in this one about Abraham and the origins of circumcision and sunnah- one which people mentioned before on this forum board without sources but it appears this is the source http://www.scribd.com/doc/234773276/Transliterated-Punjabi-Mecca-Pages-From-Bhai-Mani-Singh-Guru-Nanak-Janamsakhi Edited July 28, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted July 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) ab Baba jee outho(n) turkae Room shahir vich geae so room da hameed karoo(n) patshah see ar ousnae paitalee ganj khajaanaa jorriaa see atae kharaeit naha http://www.scribd.com/doc/235270786/Transliteration-in-progress-Guru-Nanak-in-City-of-Room-Rom-Rum-Ruom-Bhai-Mani-Singh Edited July 28, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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