The Pythagoreans

[Justaguest]

Hello!

First of all, I'm no Sikh.

When I saw a bust of Pythagoras I asked myself the question if there are similarities between the Sikhs and the Pythagoreans in ancient Greece. Pythagoras also wore a turban.

Bust of Pythagoras

Something I found out:

*Monotheistic belief

In the Greece of Pythagoras, many gods were worshipped. In fact, there was a god for each important aspect of human endeavor. Pythagoras believed that transcending these popular gods was the absolute deity. This absolute deity was indescribable, without beginning or end, and without form.

http://www.tntpc.com/252/philalethes/p91dec.html

*Not to cut the hair

He and his followers never cut their hair or beards [...].

http://www.veryimportantpotheads.com/pythagoras.html

*Pythagoras advised his followers not to drink wine.

*Vegetarian diet

Pythagoras and some of his followers lived vegetarian.

[dalsingh101]

Bloomin' hell!

And they even had time to figure out how to work out missing lengths of right angle triangles!

[BhagatSingh]

Holy! Ancient Indians also wore turbans and

never cut their hair or beards [...].

And

believed that transcending these popular gods was the absolute deity. This absolute deity was indescribable, without beginning or end, and without form.

Interesting links:

Baudhāyana, (fl. c. 800 BCE)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudhayana

Indian writings talk about pythagorean theorem way before Pythagoras (c. 570 BC – c. 495 BC)

While the theorem that now bears his name was known and previously utilized by the Babylonians and Indians, he, or his students, are often said to have constructed the first proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras

I am guessing Pythagoras was inspired by Indians quite a bit, and he took a part of our culture with him to Greece.

[Lucky]

I don't know about any of you, but when I first came across ''Pythagoras'' whilst being taught a²+b²=c²................I thought that my teacher said ''pai'' Thagoras as in 'Bhai Thagoras',.......so I assumed that he was a Bhai saab called 'Thagoras' !!!!

[das]

When I was studying Pythagoras works (typically Magic Squares), then I collected some details of Pythagoras for my own reference. So, I thought some of you might be interested in Pythagoras works.

Introduction to Pythagoras

Pythagoras was a Greek religious leader and a philosopher who made developments in astronomy, mathematics, and music theories. Pythagoras believed that everything in existence was directly related to a mathematical algorithm. Pythagoras was actually a predecessor to Nostradamus, his field of expertise was in fact astrology. He was the father of mapping the stars using mathematics Most of the well-known figures in history both scientists and prophets used his methods for creating their legacy.

Concerning the secret significance of numbers there has been much speculation. Though many interesting discoveries have been made, but with the death of Pythagoras the great key to this science was lost. For nearly 2500 years philosophers of all nations have attempted to unravel the Pythagorean skein, but apparently none has been successful. Notwithstanding attempts made to obliterate all records of the teachings of Pythagoras, fragments have survived which give clues to some of the simpler parts of his philosophy. The major secrets were never committed to writing, but were communicated orally to a few chosen disciples. e.g Magic Squares etc.

Pythagoras also taught that each species of creatures had what he termed a seal, given to it by God, and that the physical form of each was the impression of this seal upon the wax of physical substance. Thus each body was stamped with the dignity of its divinely given pattern.

Pythagoras taught that everything in nature was divisible into three parts and that no one could become truly wise who did not view every problem as being diagrammatically triangular. He said, "Establish the triangle and the problem is two-thirds solved"; further, "All things consist of three." In conformity with this viewpoint, Pythagoras divided the universe into three parts, which he called the Supreme World, the Superior World, and the Inferior World. The highest, or Supreme World, was a subtle, interpenetrative spiritual essence pervading all things and therefore the true plane of the Supreme Deity itself, the Deity being in every sense omnipresent, omniactive, omnipotent, and omniscient. Both of the lower worlds existed within the nature of this supreme sphere.

The digits 1 and 2 are not considered numbers by the Pythagoreans, because they typify the two supermundane spheres. The Pythagorean numbers, therefore, begin with 3, the triangle, and 4, the square. These added to the 1 and the 2, produce the 10, the great number of all things, the archetype of the universe. The three worlds were called receptacles. The first was the receptacle of principles, the second was the receptacle of intelligences, and the third, or lowest, was the receptacle of quantities.

Literature by Pythagoras

Pythagoras did not write any book himself. But after him, number of books were published.

Pythagorean Library
Lore of the Pythagoreans
Pythagorean Sacred Geometry Mysticism Title Touches of Sweet Harmony
Pythagorean Theurgy Mysticism Number Ontology

[Genie Singh]

triangle worshippers

[tva prasad]

On ‎27‎/‎07‎/‎2014 at 8:09 AM, dalsingh101 said:

Bloomin' hell!

 

 

And they even had time to figure out how to work out missing lengths of right angle triangles!

lol ?

[tva prasad]

On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2014 at 5:42 PM, Lucky said:

I don't know about any of you, but when I first came across ''Pythagoras'' whilst being taught a²+b²=c²................I thought that my teacher said ''pai'' Thagoras as in 'Bhai Thagoras',.......so I assumed that he was a Bhai saab called 'Thagoras' !!!!

hehehe.... LOLZ

[Lucky]

I've watched a number of the documentaries on history channel  and H2...and I swear that these guys back then were on to something else and were enlightened beyond what anyone understood. Even Einstein was trying to define this force of a universal order but he never quite put his ginger on it (or it wasn't published). He was describing very similar to "Hukam' as per Guru Nanak ji. If only he had accessed some of Guru Nanak ji's bani and translations, then it would have been unbelievable..... Einstein had said that "God doesn't play dice with the universe".. but not many understood what he was getting at.

[tva prasad]

I thought Einstein was an atheist .

[Lucky]

11 hours ago, tva prasad said:

I thought Einstein was an atheist .

Agnostic. Didn't agree with personal God as faiths make it seem they have their own. Believed there was ONE super force or order and not a person on a throne... Didn't Guru Nanak ji do the same?  Didn't they all think that Guru Nanak ji was atheist when he refused dogmas like jaenu?   ....what do you think?

 

[BhagatSingh]

4 hours ago, Lucky said:

Agnostic. Didn't agree with personal God as faiths make it seem they have their own. Believed there was ONE super force or order and not a person on a throne... Didn't Guru Nanak ji do the same?  Didn't they all think that Guru Nanak ji was atheist when he refused dogmas like jaenu?   ....what do you think?

Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't refuse to wear Janeu. I don't know if he wore Janeu or not. Paintings can not show what is underneath clothes. But he did wear Seli, which is made of black wool, which is also worn like Janeu (which is white in colour) but on top of your clothes. Guru Nanak Dev ji's paintings show him wearing a Seli, a black string on top of his robes and his cap.

ਸਿਆਹ ਉਂਨ ਅਥਵਾ ਰੇਸ਼ਮ ਦੀ ਗੁੰਦਵੀਂ ਇੱਕ ਰੱਸੀ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਫਕੀਰ ਸਿਰ ਉੱਪਰ ਸਾਫੇ ਅਥਵਾ ਟੋਪੀ ਤੇ ਬੰਨ੍ਹਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜਾਂ ਜਨੇਊ ਦੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਗਲ ਪਹਿਰਦੇ ਹਨ. ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਦੀ ਸੰਪ੍ਰਦਾਯ ਵਿੱਚ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਪਹਿਰਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ੈਲੀ (ਰੀਤਿ) ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਦੇਵ ਤੀਕ ਰਹੀ. ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਤਖਤ ਤੇ ਬੈਠਣ ਸਮੇਂ ਸੇਲੀ ਨੂੰ ਤੋਸ਼ੇਖਾਨੇ ਰੱਖਕੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਖੜਗ ਪਹਿਨਿਆ¹ (mahankosh)

He apparently also kept a Shaligram, which was preserved alongside his pothi.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/pothimala/relics/relics.htm
 

Guru Nanak Dev ji believed that it was a Person on the throne - Karta Purush/Creative Person, Akal Purush/Timeless Person.

And the whole universe does Aarti, the ritual, of this Person / Purush, with the spinning plate of the cosmos above earth, with the sun-moon lamps, pearly-stars, the wind fans, etc.

ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤੋੁਹੀ ॥
ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੨॥
Guru Sahib adds -  "This Person/Purush has thousands of eyes and yet no eyes, has thousands of murtis and yet no murti, has thousands of feet and yet none, and has thousands of noses and yet none, which fascinates me!"

And this Person / Purush is -

 ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਤਿਸ ਦੈ ਚਾਨਣਿ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
"He is the consciousness within everyone. And through this consciousness, everyone sees things."

 

------------
I have found out through study of books and myself that the Person on the throne = Consciousness, which is as Person-like  as you can get. It's most fundamental aspect of Personhood.

Remember Indra from TV Serials?
There was an old pre-Vedic religion, in which Indra meant Consciousness (it still means consciousness), and he sat upon the throne, that Devadi Dev, the king of Gods, and watched over everything. No one can obtain his throne = he is infathomable, incomprehensible. However you could get a glimpse of Indra, if you saw past the Indris (senses).

Indra - consciousness. Indris - extensions of consciousness, ie senses.
Withdrawing from the senses, allows us to see consciousness.

Consciousness is the king of Gods. It is an old-vedic idea. But not just limited to India.

Remember Zeus?
He is the God of Gods. The ruler of Mount Olympus. He is the equivalent of Indra in Greece. That is also referring to Consciousness.

Odin from Norse Mythology?
He is known as the All-Father. He is the equivalent.

I am no expert in world mythology. But if I understand Indra correctly then it also applies to the equivalent Gods from other countries, like Zeus and Odin.

-----------------------

The Person on the throne is Consciousness, if anyone can grasp this secret. The names have changed over time but it's the same idea, the same secret!

Guru Nanak calls him as Krishna -

ਏਕ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਨੰ ਤ ਸਰਬ ਦੇਵਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵਾ ਤ ਆਤਮਹ ॥ ਆਤਮੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਾਸ੍ਵਦੇਵਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨਸਿ ਭੇਵ ॥
"The one Krishna is the God of Gods, he is the Atma, consciousness. Our consciousness, is Shri Vasudev, Krishna, if anyone can understand this secret."

If you study Bhagwad Gita, you find out Krishna is Universal Consciousness.

Consciousness is universal, Guru Sahib is saying. Try to see this truth.

[tva prasad]

Just now, Lucky said:

Agnostic. Didn't agree with personal God as faiths make it seem they have their own. Believed there was ONE super force or order and not a person on a throne... Didn't Guru Nanak ji do the same?  Didn't they all think that Guru Nanak ji was atheist when he refused dogmas like jaenu?   ....what do you think?

 

God is nirankar he has no shape no colour no caste, as jaap sahib describes it. But he is someone (imo). he is everything but it is the toughest thing to describe god.

p.s. I know this doesn't have anything to do with this topic can u help on the thread mediation- my experience. I need to sort of clear my doubts. Thanx alot, bro.