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Must Read Books On Sikhs And Punjab Issues


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Bhajan mixed a lot of his own personal philosophical jargon while conveying Gurbani's true message.

Do you get what I mean by facts now?

But, isn't this happening in Punjab over the last 100 years, the Akali movement and SGPC, mixing politics with religion?

The facts, depending on how you look at the facts. Facts from the side of Punjabi Sikh faith which is heavily involved in liberation from India or the 3ho Sikhs, where the political influence are limited.

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When I say facts, I mean Gurbani's message.

Gurbani's message, what makes you so sure they are not following Gurbanis message.

What makes you so sure modern Sikhs from Punjabi backgrounds are following Gurbanis message?

Like I have said before, Akali's and SGPC have used Gurbani to obtain their political agendas in Punjab, by nook or crook. These political bodies ( I call them political because I don't really see SGPC as a representative of Sikhs living in the west) have used religion to gain power over the masses. Now, how is that any different to what Yogi Bajan did?

Going back to the original question, if you believe, 3ho Sikhs are following a bastardise version of Sikh religion, who is going to point them in the right direction?

What if 3ho Sikhs split from the mainstream? I have had conversations with a few of them in London, because they certainly believe it may happen in the near future. They don't want to but if they are forced they will.

So, the next question, will mainstream Sikhs do the same to them as they did to the Nirnkaris?

Edited by Kulsingh5
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Gurbani's message, what makes you so sure they are not following Gurbanis message.

What makes you so sure modern Sikhs from Punjabi backgrounds are following Gurbanis message?

I thought we were discussing about bhajan and how he misled the 3ho Sikhs by mixing his own personal philosophy with Gurbani.

There are corrupts everywhere, in Punjab or in the West.

Like I have said before, Akali's and SGPC have used Gurbani to obtain their political agendas in Punjab, by nook or crook. These political bodies ( I call them political because I don't really see SGPC as a representative of Sikhs living in the west) have used religion to gain power over the masses. Now, how is that any different to what Yogi Bajan did?

Well this is nothing new. We all are ware of this.

Going back to the original question, if you believe, 3ho Sikhs are following a bastardise version of Sikh religion, who is going to point them in the right direction?

The call themselves Sikhs, so eventually they would find their way.

What if 3ho Sikhs split from the mainstream? I have had conversations with a few of them in London, because they certainly believe it may happen in the near future. They don't want to but if they are forced they will.

You should wish them good luck.

So, the next question, will mainstream Sikhs do the same to them as they did to the Nirnkaris?

What did the Sikhs do to the nirankaris?

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sikhs would have had no problem with nirankaris if these phuddus did not disrespect sri guru granth sahib ji. putting his feet on and jumping over it crosses the line. Also this phuddu said instead of panj piyare i will make sat sitare. Theres a whole list of things these phuddu nirankaris did to agitate sikhs because they were fully backed by congress and their phuddu leader had z security.

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sunn oye g*ndu jat, Nirankaris had every right to follow their faith the way they wanted. Taksali AKJ attack on them was a gross violation of human rights made worse by governments of the day which capitulated in face of the above-mentioned taksali violence. if harbans Khanna was making statements in support of the Niranakris' rights, i would commend that guy. if he was killed for defending Nirankaris rights, I would call him a martyr.

if anyone closed any dera (rohtak, Amritsar japan where ever) forcibly, that should be condemned. Kabir Panthis, Nirankaris, Dera sacha sauda...everyone has right to follow their faith. Article 25 of the Indian Constitution ensures 'Freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion' Article 25.1 states:

  1. Subject to public order, morality and health and to the other provisions of this Part, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practice and propagate religion.

what Taksalis of yore and various Sikh radicals of today are doing is violating others Constitutional rights.

If insuting Sikh Gurus is their path then we will challenge these fake Nirankaris and regarding ur constitution we know what it is . As per it Sikhs are Hindus and God knows what Hinduism is . Who founded it , when it was founded ? Jis bache nu apne pao da pata ne hunda onu Harami kehnde ne te jede koum nu eh ne pata ke ona da dharam kad shuru hoya te kine shuru kiti onu ke kehna chahida ?

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I thought we were discussing about bhajan and how he misled the 3ho Sikhs by mixing his own personal philosophy with Gurbani.

There are corrupts everywhere, in Punjab or in the West.

Well this is nothing new. We all are ware of this.

The call themselves Sikhs, so eventually they would find their way.

You should wish them good luck.

What did the Sikhs do to the nirankaris?

I thought we were discussing about bhajan and how he misled the 3ho Sikhs by mixing his own personal philosophy with Gurbani.

No, it was you who bought up the issues with Yogi Bajjan, I have no issues with his philosophies and the rituals practised by the 3ho sikhs.

What did the Sikhs do to the nirankaris?

Yes, what did the Sikhs do to the Nirnkaris?

Nirinkari movement is another off-shoot of Sikhs, such as Nirmalay, Adasi and Radhaswamis. But Sikh's seem to have this issue of accepting these faiths. Many of these sects in the west are more then happy to call them self as Sikhs but hard-liners such yourself think you have the right to make judgement on them.

Now, lets have a look at the Nirinkaris, same issue here Hard-liners such as AKJ and Dhamdhami taksal have had hard time accepting them. After the collision with Sikhs on 13th April 1978 and for Alkalis to show support to JSB, didn't Mr Thora ban any Niriankari gathering in punjab, is this not discriminating. And didn't your beloved JSB made a fiery speech to his congregation, I would weigh the person in gold who would fetch him the Niriankari Cheif, Baba Gurbachan Singh's head.

Yes, we have rumours or may be a fact what Gurbachan Singh said. But, we have many people ridiculing regions all over the world, the social network is full of it. Do you see Christians raging wars against atheists when the Holy bible is made out to be a book of lies. But regrading the Sikhs, there seems to be this insecurity, if any one talks bad of the Gurus or the Granth they should be punished.

Lets get back to 3ho Sikhs, your statement straight away was they were misled by Jogi Bajan, but what makes you think they were ever misled.

The call themselves Sikhs, so eventually they would find their way.

Fair enough, but may not be the Sikh faith you recognise as the Sikh faith. They probably say the same about the Punjabi Sikhs.

Edited by Kulsingh5
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I have no issues with his philosophies and the rituals practised by the 3ho sikhs.

You seemed to be complaining about 3ho. Anyway thanks for making your stance clear.

Yes, what did the Sikhs do to the Nirnkaris?

Nirinkari movement is another off-shoot of Sikhs, such as Nirmalay, Adasi and Radhaswamis. But Sikh's seem to have this issue of accepting these faiths. Many of these sects in the west are more then happy to call them self as Sikhs but hard-liners such yourself think you have the right to make judgement on them.

Now, lets have a look at the Nirinkaris, same issue here Hard-liners such as AKJ and Dhamdhami taksal have had hard time accepting them. After the collision with Sikhs on 13th April 1978 and for Alkalis to show support to JSB, didn't Mr Thora ban any Niriankari gathering in punjab, is this not discriminating. And didn't your beloved JSB made a fiery speech to his congregation, I would weigh the person in gold who would fetch him the Niriankari Cheif, Baba Gurbachan Singh's head.

Yes, we have rumours or may be a fact what Gurbachan Singh said. But, we have many people ridiculing regions all over the world, the social network is full of it. Do you see Christians raging wars against atheists when the Holy bible is made out to be a book of lies. But regrading the Sikhs, there seems to be this insecurity, if any one talks bad of the Gurus or the Granth they should be punished.

Lets get back to 3ho Sikhs, your statement straight away was they were misled by Jogi Bajan, but what makes you think they were ever misled.

The call themselves Sikhs, so eventually they would find their way.

Fair enough, but may not be the Sikh faith you recognise as the Sikh faith. They probably say the same about the Punjabi Sikhs.

Hold your horses. We will get to the details.

Nirinkari movement is another off-shoot of Sikhs

How?

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You made a comment "3ho Sikhs are following a bastardise version of Sikh religion"? Are you expecting someone to read this in a positive context.

It's up to the individual how they perceive it.

When you quote a passage out of context, like you do on all your posts, well, then passages do read differently don't they.

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Nirankaris had every right to follow their faith the way they wanted.

Do they have the right to insult Sikhi ?

The main point of antogonism with the nirankaris was their ridicule of the Sikh principal figures and Gurbani.

As your favourite terrorist once said "they can follow whichever path they want, but why ridicule Gurmat to follow it?"

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why I would struggle to find similarities? First there are two Nirankaris missions,one as started by Baba Dyal Das and one which is now known as Sant Nirankari Mission.

The sant nirankari mission was set up by buta singh after he was thrown out of the original Nirankari movement.

interestingly, Nirankaris were the first to start Anand karaj marriages as till late 19th centuries all sikhs (including Guru sahibans) were married acc to Sanatan Hindu reets.

They were probably the first to revive it. As per Sikh history the first mention of Anand Karajs were already taking place by 10th Guru's times, if not earlier.

Sant Nirankari Mission believed in Gurbani but parted ways after B Avatar Singh if i am not wrong as they developed their own spiritual text and spiritual ways.

Sant Nirankari never beleived in Gurbani. After buta singh started his own mission, they started to to worship him instead, and eventually moved onto creating their own texts. They absolutely do not beleive in gurbani as in Guru Granth Sahib. by their own texts, they have called gurbani from AGGS as hollow and worthless.

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Going back to the original question, if you believe, 3ho Sikhs are following a bastardise version of Sikh religion, who is going to point them in the right direction?

So, the next question, will mainstream Sikhs do the same to them as they did to the Nirnkaris?

the example you set between the 3ho and nirankaris is absurd. nirankaris do not believe in the root of gurmat principles, whereas the 3ho do. the flower may differ but thats about all.

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Nirinkari movement is another off-shoot of Sikhs, such as Nirmalay, Adasi and Radhaswamis.

nirankari is not an offshoot of sikhs, they totally reject the main sikh principles. nirmalay are a saprdaye within the sikh panth, so they are not an off-shoot, and if by Adasi, you are refering to Udasis, then they are also a part of the the SIkh panth. Radhaswamis are not sikhs, they do not call themselves sikhs, and do not beleive in Gurbani as their guru.

Where are you getting this info from?

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nirankari is not an offshoot of sikhs, they totally reject the main sikh principles. nirmalay are a saprdaye within the sikh panth, so they are not an off-shoot, and if by Adasi, you are refering to Udasis, then they are also a part of the the SIkh panth. Radhaswamis are not sikhs, they do not call themselves sikhs, and do not beleive in Gurbani as their guru.

Where are you getting this info from?

Very interesting Link:

7 Offshoot Sects of Sikhs

http://sikhism.about.com/od/Sikhism_History/tp/7-Offshoot-Sects-Of-Sikhs.htm

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the example you set between the 3ho and nirankaris is absurd. nirankaris do not believe in the root of gurmat principles, whereas the 3ho do. the flower may differ but thats about all.

Absurd?

Many hard line Sikhs in the west have ridiculed them because of some of their practices, which are believed to be anti Sikh.

How long before Sikhs decide to shun them from the panth?

Edited by Kulsingh5
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