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Roohani Marg - Sant Baba Isher Singh (Rare Wale)


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Thats great info..all of these is mentioned in ishvar amalok lal and atam hularaey questions and answers book. Knowledge is there, path is here very detailed. I think people who have deep impluse towards know their real self or see truth will naturally go on this path and drawn to this path..it has nothing to do with various wacky spiritual experiences people expect or take them as absolute truth. All these relative truth experiences are nothing but ego trap, transitory. From absolute point of view, even perception of existence of dasam dwara is not there.

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It does make you wonder what on earth are you being taught or led to perceive. To be honest I'm feeling betrayed more and more each day. I find myself looking outside my own faith for answers which might be the real Truth. Then when I hear our Sant's saying the same thing in deep hidden disclosures I wonder why this spiritual knowledge was left out of the main stream teachings.

To be honest the pearls of knowledge are inside Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but only those who know about them pick them up or can understand them. However on the other note the preachers of our faith should know better and explain these things more clearly rather going on and on about history which may or may not inspire. Instead we are led to indirectly worship the stories rather than make that inward journey within and find our true nature.

I won't to go to the extreme and out of my own ignorance and say states or phases don't exist but I do believe they maybe beyond our comprehension and current level of understanding and not so easy to articulate by those who reached them. So where appropriate metaphors were used to give a hint or clue as to the true nature of the experience. Only when one reaches the avasta can one relate to what is being said or described.

For example in one book I'm reading it was described that Krishan is renowned for playing the flute. This flute was to signify the inner flute that is heard in the deep states of meditation, and not necessarily the fact that he used to play it all the time. The true melodious intoxicating flute is one that heard on the inside.

Edited by Sat1176
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It does make you wonder what on earth are you being taught or led to perceive. To be honest I'm feeling betrayed more and more each day. I find myself looking outside my own faith for answers which might be the real Truth. Then when I hear our Sant's saying the same thing in deep hidden disclosures I wonder why this spiritual knowledge was left out of the main stream teachings.

I agree its not widely avaiable but this knowledge of knowing your real self is there in traditional gurmat (taksal, rara sahib, harkhowale and nirmale). One needs to be understand sikhi that we see in mainstream gurdwara went through reformist moment but unfortunately essence teaching of gurmat was lost.

To be honest the pearls of knowledge are inside Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but only those who know about them pick them up or can understand them. However on the other note the preachers of our faith should know better and explain these things more clearly rather going on and on about history which may or may not inspire. Instead we are led to indirectly worship the stories rather than make that inward journey within and find our true nature.

I totally agree even sant ranjit singh dhandrianwale who i have great hope to discuss deep metaphysics of mind, soul fell into this mindset, its getting beyond ridicolous that parcharikhs are more concerned about getting people to take amrit (admission to school) then being teachers helping students through out whole spiritual school journey.

I won't to go to the extreme and out of my own ignorance and say states or phases don't exist but I do believe they maybe beyond our comprehension and current level of understanding and not so easy to articulate by those who reached them. So where appropriate metaphors were used to give a hint or clue as to the true nature of the experience. Only when one reaches the avasta can one relate to what is being said or described.

I am not going to extreme when i say these phases/different states don't exist in absolute view (its one non dual state- where even amrit and poison is same). I am simply upholding absolute truth. We need to make clear distinction between absolute truth and relative truth otherwise we are going to loose underlining reality- deep root (Absolute truth) by making these relatives truth our reality.

This has to be done. Let me clarify, Dasam dwara is portal to silence- sun samadhi- absolute reality but its not the only portal to absolute reality. So when people are emphasising so much that one has to go through this portal in order to get into absolute reality or when people actually making it sound dasam dwara- pointer is only way to experiencing divine then truth has to be told even if whole dasam dwara hysteria has to be undermined so be it, in fact gurbani does that already- in 21st astphadi (bhramgyan state) of sukhmani sahib where gurbani rips through all these relative realities which people wrap their head around, set up camp sites there at relative truths taking them to be absolute. Again if people are drawn towards these relative realities its fine there is nothing wrong with it, divine is totally fine with it as divine is experiencing itself in diversity from absolute everything all is fine here and now, absolute fine but when it comes to holding absolute truth, gurmat provides cautionary warnings to spiritual seekers.

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Sant mani singh ji didn't go through this portal of dasam dwar in order to reach there. Sant isher singh ji rara sahib went through this portal however totally made it clear in his tape that dasam dwara is pretty thing on the way- not destination, provides various path same like puratan yoga paths in ishvar amalok lal. Sant attar singh ji reru sahib went through this portal before and upon realising this body. When i ask sant jagjit singh harkhowale about dasam dwar he totally down played it as many youths over emphases on them. I totally understand why he would do that. This has to be done as its done in gurbani as well.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Sahib,

I am coming to the realisation enough of the theory for the time being. It is time to put into practice what I already know and get back to basics. So much has already been posted on this forum in terms of techniques and details of the path that lies ahead. It is time to put in some serious effort and spend the time doing actual simran. Reading alone and the gyan gained will not lead to realisation of the ultimate truth. For that one has to make some effort and practice and leave the rest to his grace.

I personally feel it's time to put the books and websites down for a bit and spend that time doing the practical simran instead. If I look back at the time I have spent reading about the subject, if I had spent even half of that time doing actual simran the story to tell might have been a whole lot different. The gyan gained over the past months has given a solid foundation and a little more clarity and confidence about what to do on the path of shabad/gurmantar surat yog. You can be told the same thing in so many different ways by different people but unless you put in a serious amount of focused effort oneself this gyan will be worthless.

When I now look back, I find the biggest progress was made when I didn't know much. I simply did what I was told and just did my simran focusing on the gurmantar and the experiences started themselves. It was only when I tried to get ahead of myself and started researching deeply into the path and what lies ahead or what to do I lost some of that momentum. The fascination of learning took precedence over doing the practical and that I see as my own short coming. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying one should not learn about the marg, the knowledge helps you identify if your taking any wrong turns and confirms if what you are experiencing can be expected. It also shines some light to the unknown path ahead so when another experience manifests or you have an inkling what the next step of the path involves you are not entirely taken by surprise and knocked off your balance. Going too much beyond your own practical experience level is somewhat pointless and is just a distraction. I have to admit it was all fascinating reading but when you do some serious inner reflection of where do you actually stand on the rungs of the ladder one realises that whist they might be able to see the rungs that go up, you have not actually climbed many yourself. It is time to walk that walk and not just talk the talk.

A mahapursh once said in that regard, the unpar/uneducated make progress far more quickly then the educated. The simple folk just accept they have to do the gurmantar and just get on with it. The educated starting bringing their analytical mind and start asking too many questions and try and use their own reasoning to explain certain things which may or may not give you the right answer. The quest for knowledge and answers itself becomes an obstacle that needs to be overcome. I am slowly beginning to see the wisdom in these words.

By all means if you feel there are relevant teachings of this person whom you recommend then feel free to share share some of his gems. I am sure they will be much appreciated if they are not too contradictory to the teachings of spiritual Sikhi and the inner journey.

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Also, only when one gets to Naad they get all the wisdom and knowledge

In my experience, one doesn't have to go through naad(shabad naad-higher portal) to get all wisdom and knowledge but rather connect directly to source of shabad-naad- which is shabad gian itself which is live not dead but LIVE/ALIVE/ETERNAL shabad gian pure unconditioned chaitain(consciousness/awareness). Shabad naad(sound) itself ultimately no matter how profound is subject of five elements- sound- subtle five elements sukhsham maya but since shabad naad is beyond sargun mind- thoughts it gives seeker all the knowledge and wisdom.

Shabad gian- pure consciousness/awareness JOT-pure divine knowledge is already common matrix behind of all experiences-everyone can relate to it, as everyone embodied it, live it, put together, common matrix of every one of us as everything is done in awareness. Everyone is born with it, its not like one has to try so hard in order to get to shabad gian, its live, in experience every moment behind every thought, source of every moment behind of every moment, source of every thought, source of experience, source of desires, source of feeling good, source of all experiences.

I had experiences which were very profound cannot describe them here nor i have any desire to do as i already know they are part of transient relative reality via bibek, any ABSOLUTE/Turiya endures-

Only IKONGKAR- Absolute Truth endures and remains and in that Absolute there are no relative realities its all ONE non dual advait-Absoulte so whatever is seen or experienced is not separate reality its not seperate as relative reality but as one Absolute-ikongkar

Eh akhar kirh jaingaie, vo akhar inn mein nahi | Akhar Dristh Man Jaita Nanak Parbhram Nirlaipa ||

Beautiful shabad below spoken from ABSOLUTE REALITY AND TRUTH:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=736&punjabi=t&id=31585#l31585

ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਮਾਨ ਸਭੁ ਬਿਨਸੀਐ ਕਿਆ ਲਗਹਿ ਗਵਾਰ ॥੨॥ द्रिसटिमान सभु बिनसीऐ किआ लगहि गवार ॥२॥
Ḏaristimān sabẖ binsī▫ai ki▫ā lagėh gavār. ||2||
All that is seen shall perish. Why are you attached to it, you fool? ||2||
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਬਾਜੀਗਰਿ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਾਜੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ बाजीगरि जैसे बाजी पाई ॥
Bājīgar jaise bājī pā▫ī. The actor stages the play,
ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪ ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ॥ नाना रूप भेख दिखलाई ॥ Nānā rūp bẖekẖ ḏikẖlā▫ī.
playing the many characters in different costumes;
ਸਾਂਗੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥ सांगु उतारि थम्हिओ पासारा ॥
Sāʼng uṯār thamiĥa▫o pāsārā. but when the play ends, he takes off the costumes,
ਤਬ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ तब एको एकंकारा ॥१॥
Ŧab eko ekankārā. ||1|| and then he is one, and only one. ||1||
ਕਵਨ ਰੂਪ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਓ ਬਿਨਸਾਇਓ ॥ कवन रूप द्रिसटिओ बिनसाइओ ॥
Kavan rūp ḏaristi▫o binsā▫i▫o.
How many forms and images appeared and disappeared?
ਕਤਹਿ ਗਇਓ ਉਹੁ ਕਤ ਤੇ ਆਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ कतहि गइओ उहु कत ते आइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Kaṯėh ga▫i▫o uho kaṯ ṯe ā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Where have they gone? Where did they come from? ||1||Pause||
ਜਲ ਤੇ ਊਠਹਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਤਰੰਗਾ ॥ जल ते ऊठहि अनिक तरंगा ॥ Jal ṯe ūṯẖėh anik ṯarangā.
Countless waves rise up from the water.
ਕਨਿਕ ਭੂਖਨ ਕੀਨੇ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗਾ ॥ कनिक भूखन कीने बहु रंगा ॥
Kanik bẖūkẖan kīne baho rangā. Jewels and ornaments of many different forms are fashioned from gold.
ਬੀਜੁ ਬੀਜਿ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਕਾਰਾ ॥ बीजु बीजि देखिओ बहु परकारा ॥
Bīj bīj ḏekẖi▫o baho parkārā. I have seen seeds of all kinds being planted -
ਫਲ ਪਾਕੇ ਤੇ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੨॥ फल पाके ते एकंकारा ॥२॥ Fal pāke ṯe ekankārā. ||2||
when the fruit ripens, the seeds appear in the same form as the original. ||2||
ਸਹਸ ਘਟਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਆਕਾਸੁ ॥ सहस घटा महि एकु आकासु ॥ Sahas gẖatā mėh ek ākās.
The one sky is reflected in thousands of water jugs,
ਘਟ ਫੂਟੇ ਤੇ ਓਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ॥ घट फूटे ते ओही प्रगासु ॥
Gẖat fūte ṯe ohī pargās. but when the jugs are broken, only the sky remains.
ਭਰਮ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥ भरम लोभ मोह माइआ विकार ॥
Bẖaram lobẖ moh mā▫i▫ā vikār. Doubt comes from greed, emotional attachment and the corruption of Maya.
ਭ੍ਰਮ ਛੂਟੇ ਤੇ ਏਕੰਕਾਰ ॥੩॥ भ्रम छूटे ते एकंकार ॥३॥ Bẖaram cẖẖūte ṯe ekankār. ||3||
Freed from doubt, one realizes the One Lord alone. ||3||
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It does make you wonder what on earth are you being taught or led to perceive. To be honest I'm feeling betrayed more and more each day. I find myself looking outside my own faith for answers which might be the real Truth. Then when I hear our Sant's saying the same thing in deep hidden disclosures I wonder why this spiritual knowledge was left out of the main stream teachings.

To be honest the pearls of knowledge are inside Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but only those who know about them pick them up or can understand them. However on the other note the preachers of our faith should know better and explain these things more clearly rather going on and on about history which may or may not inspire. Instead we are led to indirectly worship the stories rather than make that inward journey within and find our true nature.

I won't to go to the extreme and out of my own ignorance and say states or phases don't exist but I do believe they maybe beyond our comprehension and current level of understanding and not so easy to articulate by those who reached them. So where appropriate metaphors were used to give a hint or clue as to the true nature of the experience. Only when one reaches the avasta can one relate to what is being said or described.

For example in one book I'm reading it was described that Krishan is renowned for playing the flute. This flute was to signify the inner flute that is heard in the deep states of meditation, and not necessarily the fact that he used to play it all the time. The true melodious intoxicating flute is one that heard on the inside.

Dear brother Sat,

the answer to your above conclusions, is that, though as you truly say there are pearls of knowledge, I would even say mines of knwoledge, the thing is, the true teachings of our Guru Sahibans and the finest Bhagats, in the SGGSM, have been thrown far away.

While first place have been given to rituals and dogmas, and this is not the fault of the actual preachers alone, it is being done, since the very day, Tenth Patshahee left this worldly plane. Each and everyone is interpreting the Bani by its own mental and spiritual levels.

But what can the poor jeevas do?

What is in our hands, apart from the filth in nour minds? I would say nothing , or a very little.

Then too, that much little we have, we waste it after shadows .....

Just as brother Truthseeker has beautifully said above also:

Jis no ṯū jāṇā▫ihi so▫ī jan jāṇai.

They alone understand, whom You inspire to understand;

Har guṇ saḏ hī ākẖ vakẖāṇai.

they continually chant and repeat the Lord's Praises. ANG 11

This situation is quite oftenly repeated in the Bani, reffering to those fortunate souls as "wadhbagee", who are marked by the father to go back and merge in Him.

We fail to understand, that if it is such the mauj of Waheguru, and the world has to continue, there have to be imperfections ...

Otherwise if it was that easy, everybody would understand the teachings and accepted them as such, just imagine, everybody would go back to the Father´s house, and then there would come a day, when the creation below Parbrahm would come to an end, and Kal´s creation would be depopulated......

Christ was a Gurmukh also, and similarly to those wadbhagee jeevas referred in the Bani, He said: I have come to collect the marked sheep (souls) by my Father.

You see, we are all blind. And only He has eyes. We can get hold of Him, only if He allows us to get hold of Him.

Now what is it that Christ meant by saying : I have come to collect the marked sheep by my Father.

Or when He said: I and the Father are one, those who have seen me, have seen the Father. Nobody can go to the Father, except unto me.

Let us try to see the meaning in these His words, and the similarity with Sikhee.

1) I and the Father are one, those who have seen me, have seen the Father.

Here He is saying that, He is a Gurmukh, a Sadhoo.

Just as in the Bani, we see :

Nanak, Sadh Prabh bhed na paee.

And then seeing Him, means, seeing Him as the Shabad Guru within us.

This we know, it is true, as only those who get hold of the Shabad Guru, reach Sach Khand.

So Christ is not the body, but a manifestation of Wahiguru, who came for a particular period of time, in a particular place for a particular job to be done in that time being; which once accomplished, He merged back in Him.

No real Gurmukh is the body, cause the body is perisahble, made out of the five perisahble elements.

We must bear in mind, a Satguru, a Gurmukh, a Sadhoo, a Brahamgyani, is not the body, but a level of Highest Consciousness, expressing itself in the terms of us human beings, in order to understand what Wahiguru wants us to know about Him.

The Bani says: Har jee baseh Sadh ke hirdey... Har jee baseh Sadh kee rasna...

Wahiguru is much present in all of us, but, the difference between us and the Gurmukhs is, that while the mirrors of our mind are full of dirt, the ones of the Gurmuhks are spotless, thus they shine with the Light of Akal Purukh.

And we are so silly, that while the Gurmukhs see the jot of Wahiguru in us, and they try to make us conscious of our true essence and try to direct our attention towards Wahiguru, but on the contrary we try to judge them with our manmukhta, and deny the possibilty of them being one with Him, thus we miss our golden opportunity.

Just imagine, if one writes loads of posts in the forums on ruhaniyat, we call those ones straightly gurmukhs.

But if someone who really is a Gurmukh, as He is one with Him, by means of His Grace and Shabad Dhun, we doubt Him and say, you are a fake one ...

While on the other side, someone maybe a real thug, a dacoit, or a theif , and we call him a sant, just because he acts according to the prestablished frames in our polluted minds ........

This is how we worldy people are..... We look more on the coverings, then what is underneath...

That also, when these Gumukhs, talk only of Wahiguru and the method of realizing Him through His Name....

So we wicked people, we crucified them; to others we made them sit on hot iron plates, to others we cut their heads an so on ....

What a pity... we are not only blind, but cruel to those who talk of Wahiguru Akal Purukh with words of simplicity.

We are so much bound by the chains of our so created rituals, dogmas, ceremonies, that if that Gurukh may talk simply of Wahiguru, and His Love or True devotion of Nam Simran, we will label Him as a fraud.....

Even if we look to more of the teachings or sayings of Christ, we will be amazed to see the similarity with Sikhee.

Other thing is, how the priest class and the world have twisted the teachings of Christ, and made a religion out of those teachings ....

But the teachings of Christ are one thing, and the actual christainism is a totally different thing ......

The eternal Truth of any True Gurmukh is:

Ik Onkar,

Satgur Parsad, jap.

That´s it, nothing more nothing less. This is the essence of Sikhee and the teachings of any True Gurmukh.

Wahiguru Akal Purukh, is the only absolute reality.

Sat Sree Akal.

Edited by harsharan000
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In my experience, one doesn't have to go through naad(shabad naad-higher portal) to get all wisdom and knowledge but rather connect directly to source of shabad-naad- which is shabad gian itself which is live not dead but LIVE/ALIVE/ETERNAL shabad gian pure unconditioned chaitain(consciousness/awareness). Shabad naad(sound) itself ultimately no matter how profound is subject of five elements- sound- subtle five elements sukhsham maya but since shabad naad is beyond sargun mind- thoughts it gives seeker all the knowledge and wisdom.

I kindly beg to differ with you here with regards to a couple of points !!......sorry bro! B)

The naad is an essential factor in the house of Guru Nanak ji from what I understand.

The shabad gian, knowledge and wsdom does come from this very naad as Truthseek stated above.....and I will just give an example from the very first instance, out of the very many that the naad reference is made in gurbani.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥

Gurmukẖ nāḏaʼn gurmukẖ veḏaʼn gurmukẖ rahi▫ā samā▫ī.

The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.

Gurmukh-ie.from the Guru's mukh/mouth comes this very naad....

NOTE- this naad is the sound-current of the word, which is ONG. "ਓਅੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੀਓ ਅਕਾਰਾ- Ong gurmukẖ kīo akhara''

and from this very same naad, you get ALL the Wisdom and Knowledge of the vedas and it is also the Ultimately all-pervading entity.

ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥

Gur īsar gur gorakẖ barmā gur pārbaṯī mā▫ī.

The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.

Going on from the very previous tuk of ''All-pervading''....Nanak ji tells us that it is also the All pervading trinity itself- in the sense of Creator, Sustainer and Destroyer....as represented by shiva, vishnu and brahma.

So, If the naad is from Guru's mukh,...... then it comes directly from the source itself, and it is NOT of the 5 elements and not maya.

The elements begin in Maya .....where Pavan starts.

Pavan is the guru of maya (pavan guru pani pita)..... and that's why we have to latch onto and with the naad to bypass the trai-gun maya.

Can only go into chautha-pad/turiya avastha if consciousness disassociates from this pavan (Maya's master)

Therefore, I understand that the naad is not of the 5 tats or some sound-current of pavan.

This is also why it is called 'Anhad'-unstruck. ......As it is not a stricken sound of maya consisting of oscillating wavelengths that begin at some point source from where struck.

Also, the naad is always referred to as anhad and not a pavan sound.

Shabad gian- pure consciousness/awareness JOT-pure divine knowledge is already common matrix behind of all experiences-everyone can relate to it, as everyone embodied it, live it, put together, common matrix of every one of us as everything is done in awareness. Everyone is born with it, its not like one has to try so hard in order to get to shabad gian, its live, in experience every moment behind every thought, source of every moment behind of every moment, source of every thought, source of experience, source of desires, source of feeling good, source of all experiences.

Yes, sabh Gobind hai, gobind bin na koi, and the jyot is present everywhere....BUT our duality of double drishti from 2 maya eyes cannot perceive this Gobind.

I strongly believe that an avastha has to be attained (via efforts), where one can see this single drishti of One and Ek-onkar only amongst everything and everyone.

Again, I understand Guru Nanak ji as not just telling me to be aware and imagine the presence of gobind everywhere, but instead to Jap and Simar..in order to 'EXPERIENCE' Gobind in everything and everywhere.

This whole 'Experiencing' is what leads to the shabad gian and awareness.

Jap/naam simran/meditate--->elevate and ascend consciousness---->raise avastha/awareness---->experience gobind --->realisation from experience/elevated awareness----->merge with Nirankaar

or we could say from Sargun---->Nirgun----->Nirankar

Edited by Lucky
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The way i experienced awareness was different. I initially went through de-construction process until its all silence-awakeness and let awakeness come in center stage (mind-manipulation loves to take center stage all the time), rather than letting trying do awareness or get to awareness..i just be in state of being non dual awareness which is already there in all of us it automatically comes in -operates through naturally (I have no say where it takes)..it will only operate given there is no mental noise its silence and emptiness.. i , i just let natural awareness which is in everyone take center the stage go through spontaneous process , its bit different as its gurmat gyan path leading to same source, its effortless effort process where only effort is to be quite and then let built in enlightened awareness-jot (also mentioned in gurbani as unman as means to meet our jot as unman will naturally merge back in its source) which is in all of us, and everyone take center stage sponteounsly let go where its trying to go.

The way i understood naad i thought any kind of sound is part of pavan, naad is made out of pavan. Pavan is part of subtle maya. Off course we don't beleive in christian concept of maya belong to devil etc..source of maya is nirankar itself naad automatically leads to actual source of naad which is shabad gian- nirankar- vaho vaho bani nirankar hai ||

May be Maya is unfortunate term filled with negative connotations let's call its another name sargun. Naad is still part of subtle sargun.

You are the right about the process there is no issue there i have maintained there are different aspects of nirankar- naad, nirgun gyan, are all valid leading to same destination. I am speaking from nirgun gyan point of view- what also right and truth- everyone is already experiencing elevated awareness they don't know it or perceive it that way due to maya or rather you can say elevated awareness already experiencing itself through everyone, each and every moment which is reality, we have to recognize it by letting it take the center stage or center being which appears to be hijacked by mind or ego at the moment.

Essence of enlightenment or enlightened awareness already there in all of us is just as natural as one spontaneous breathing we don't have to try so hard to get to it. Aboslute truth(unman avastha/turiya avastha) its there in all of us already operating through us in all of us, its already there from its point of view, already it requires just our fearless recognition each and every moment...we have a choice either we can identify with absolute truth already there in each of every moment or identify with mind. Most of us identify with mind all the time thats why this constant rememberance (Naam simran without any technalities) so important for all of us.

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ गउड़ी महला ५ ॥ Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5. Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
ਅਗਮ ਰੂਪ ਕਾ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਥਾਨਾ ॥ अगम रूप का मन महि थाना ॥ Agam rūp kā man mėh thānā.
The Lord of Unfathomable Form has His Place in the mind.

ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਿਨੈ ਵਿਰਲੈ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੧॥ गुर प्रसादि किनै विरलै जाना ॥१॥ Gur parsāḏ kinai virlai jānā. ||1||

By Guru's Grace, a rare few come to understand this. ||1||


Inquire where/what is that agam roop, this is your real self..!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I believe Anhad bani is known as Nirgun as the following two pangtis help clarify this point.

nirgun kathaa, kathaa hai Har kee.
The Speech of the Lord is the most sublime speech, free of any attributes.

Har kee kathaa anaahad baanee

The sermon of the Lord is the unstruck, endless song.

Edited by Sat1176
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I understand where you coming from bro. Even I found this concept hard to grasp and I too became confused as we are always told that there are two forms to waheguru, Sargun and Nirgun.

i.e. Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sunn Samadhi Aap

A few months ago at the mysimran.info camp in Vancouver the lecturer stated that there are 3 forms to waheguru. Think the lecture videos are up on their site and youtube channel.

1) Sargun - Creation/Qualities/Form

2) Nirgun - Naam

3) Niranakar- Without Qualities/Form

His way of explaining this was that gurbani states that before anything came into existence Nirankar all alone. From Nirankar came Naam which is known as Nirgun, Thirdly from Naam the creation was created, Sargun .

Edited by Sat1176
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I understand what he is saying and understand he is breaking it down for understanding purposes from perspective/aspect- shabad dhun/naad aspect of vahiguru its fine break down.

i don't agree with him calling naam nirgun without more deeper explanation as without various interepertations of naam it would confine nirgun into naam..also as its simply as it can confuse lot of people because naam has various interpretations depending on spiritual aspirant state.. most of people will take naam as dhun -sound aspect of naam as nirgun which is in again clash course with sidhant of mool mantar, japji sahib, sukhmani sahib.

Gurbani speaks to multitude aspects of nirankar so it provides multiple existence gurbani tukhs how whole creation came. gurbani talks about both creation came from both shabad dhun/gian and khanda/shakti/gian.

Anyway in absolute truth there is only non dual state -Ikongkar (its all one non duality reality) simply no break down - breaks down there to help people transcendent thats how i take it not as a absolute reality.

This map may help better provide perspective

d5d47ac7706d5478d304ff522abe6eb9.jpg

post-3-0-88032600-1425572388_thumb.jpg

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N30 ji.....your description on awareness is about 'meditation' and self inquiry where one learns and becomes more aware of the ''higher self''...this ascension happens in stages as one experiences and travels through the realms of existence.

But from what I understand and according to Guru Nanak ji philosophy.....only Naam simran can take you directly to Nirankar.

Difference is that Naam simran jap is meditation on the Guru shabad and not on self inquiry.

On the map shown above.....where it says ''paravani- source word''...that is the Anhad shabad/naad that comes directly from Guru's mukh......There is NO element of sargun present and if one hears it, then it is also the nirgun and sukham/subtle sareer that hears it..

This is why by closing the ears...one can hear it even louder !!

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Naam simran is foundation of our dharam ..Naam simran is truth remembrance in form of reciting shabad in bhakti devotion , contemplating on naam shabad dhun, and naam shabad Gian in form of mahavaaks deeply contemplating on our higher self/with our higher self-bhram surt-primordial awareness- lived/felt/sensed through by abiding in them functioning through them
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Inquiry has its place in Sikhi, inquiry should be incorporated with naam simran as well as inquiry provides deeper insight, helps breaks conditioning, pre-conceived notions, conceptual knowledge etc etc:

Here are beautiful inquiry/riddles asked by sri guru gobind singh ji.

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Here is various different interpretations/stages of NAAM based on stages of seeker aspirant grasp:

post-3-0-00008000-1425645708_thumb.jpg

On the map shown above.....where it says ''paravani- source word''...that is the Anhad shabad/naad that comes directly from Guru's mukh......There is NO element of sargun present and if one hears it, then it is also the nirgun and sukham/subtle sareer that hears it..

This is why by closing the ears...one can hear it even louder !!

I m not disputing existence of anhad shabad ..i m just cautioning just like gurbani does and also sant isher singh ji rara sahib in his tape clearly caution seekers(eh raste di cheeza haan manzil nahi) that anhad shabad is not the destination because many people will caught up as subtle ego will crept in, will set up camp sites there as its highly blissful state don't want to move further at all...one can move further via deep inquiry at that point where all this coming from, whats the source of it. what am i ? are guru's mukh and sikh mukh one and same? whats guru's and sikh real self jot? am i these anhad shabad dhunis? whats the undivided spirit or truth etc etc?

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