CdnSikhGirl Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 @ Satkirin: God is nor male nor female Satkirin. @ Singh123: And Bhagat Fareed Bani is second Farids Bani. If you want to debate me then start another topic and I will debate you with internal Gurbani and external historical references. All others bhagats like Nama, Kabir, etc met Guru Nanak in UP according to Janamsakhis like Mehervan Janamsakhi. Start another topic, but don't run away like every time because you can't respond with arguments please because I actually waste quite some time compiling posts with adequate tuks and historical basis. I know this! God is both the male and the female... I was just commenting on Paapiman's ridiculous interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Bro, I don't think you know the sakhi of Satguru jee's feet bleeding. There was a Gursikh Shepherd, who was reciting Gurbani (with focus and love), while he was doing his job. His feet were being pricked by thorns. As he was in tune with Gurbani, it was Satguru jee who took all his pain. That is why, Maharaaj's feet started bleeding. The bachan (according to my very limited knowledge) might be applicable for Brahamgyanis or people of high spiritual states. If they walk and attain samadhi, then all their bodily pains/injuries will be taken by Satguru jee. It would be similar to a person who is sleep walking. Sleep walking can lead to deadly injuries. Below is an example of how dangerous sleep walking can be. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanford-center-for-sleep-sciences-and-medicine/sleep-disorders_b_3826048.html Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1. Gurbani is for all Sikhs, regardless of avastha; gurbani has one updesh for all. Don't start dividing Gurbani on 'but oh that Shabad was adressed to Muslims', if you contemplate the message of Guru to Muslims also counts for us. Same way all Gurbani updesh is for Sikhs (and others). Thus if Gurbani says you can or even should recite Gurbani while walking I don't see how Guru Ji would have an objection to us doing so. 2. I am not talking about sleepwalking nor is Gurbachan Singh, so don't bring that topic in. Gurbachan clearly says that one shouldn't walk while reciting Bani because 'insert sakhi'. This is clearly fake because atleast 2 pangtis in Guru Granth Sahib talk about chanting while walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Satkirin, I would rather say God is genderless instead of being both. Because gender is associated with 'joon' (incarnations, life forms) while God is above that thus above gender. 685, Guru Granth Sahib ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕੋਊ ਕੈਸੇ ॥ He is not male, and He is not female; how can anyone describe Him? Guru Nanak Dev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Vahiguru is genderless- nirgun saroop but however Vahiguru emanates/expresses/reflect itself (while being nirlaip-deattached)- in sargun(with attribute)- which is both male and female form equally. Male terms are used in sri guru granth sahib and female terms are used in sri dasam granth sahib ji sahib ji to express sargun saroop of Vahiguru which is in itself is genderless..its beautiful paradox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Satguru jee can marry as many women as he likes. He is GOD man, not like us. It's so simple to understand. Satguru jee is ageless. Bhagats can come and go at will. It is very easy to understand. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਸੰਗੁ ॥ Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1. Guru can do anything, no one is doubting that. Tommorow some Baba like you will say Guru Gobind Singh stole and chelas like you will say 'Guru can do anything, he is all powerful' what kind of logic is that? There is no historical basis for claiming 8 wives, nor is it logical to marry 8 sisters at that age and nor is there any reason. 2. Stop twisting Tuks to suit your agenda. You are believing the English translation which is incorrect, please stop learning solely from internet. The line you mentioned is on panna 932. First of all lets see what is said before your line: ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਆਇ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Prof Sahib Singh: ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ ਅਤੇ ਅਡੋਲਤਾ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਉਹ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ English of prof arth: The human being that chants the virtues of the Lord dwells in peace and poise; he is liberated from the cycle of rebirth. The tuk you mention has nothing to do with reincarnation either, it simply talks about when we are born and go, not cycle of rebirth: ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਸੰਗੁ ॥ Prof Sahib Singh: ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਹੀ (ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ) ਬੰਧਨ-ਰਹਿਤ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਬੰਧਨ-ਰਹਿਤ ਹੀ ਇਥੋਂ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਨਾਹ ਹੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਫਲ ਭੋਗਣ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਨਾਹ ਹੀ ਇਥੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਮੰਦ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਸਹੇੜ ਕੇ ਲੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ), Prof Sahib Singh: The Gurmukh comes in this world without bounds and goes without bounds (i.e. he neither has to come back due to bad past karams nor to enjoy past good karams) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Metaphors are used to describe our relationship with god as bride-husband, doesn't mean to be interpreted literally. God is genderless as shown in the Bani tuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Satkirin, I would rather say God is genderless instead of being both. Because gender is associated with 'joon' (incarnations, life forms) while God is above that thus above gender. 685, Guru Granth Sahib ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕੋਊ ਕੈਸੇ ॥ He is not male, and He is not female; how can anyone describe Him? Guru Nanak Dev Page 1020, Line 15ਆਪੇ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਨਾਰੀ ॥ Āpe purakẖ āpe hī nārī. You Yourself are the male, and You Yourself are the female. I know Akal Purakh is genderless, formless actually. But since all of creation is within God and IS God, then God is both male and female. Page 2, Line 6 ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵੈ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ॥੪॥ Nānak evai jāṇī▫ai sabẖ āpe sacẖiār. ||4|| O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. ||4|| Page 11, Line 17 ਤੂੰ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਸਭ ਤੁਝ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ Ŧūʼn ḏarī▫ā▫o sabẖ ṯujẖ hī māhi. You are the River of Life; all are within You. Edited May 8, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) 1. Gurbani is for all Sikhs, regardless of avastha; gurbani has one updesh for all. Don't start dividing Gurbani on 'but oh that Shabad was adressed to Muslims', if you contemplate the message of Guru to Muslims also counts for us. Same way all Gurbani updesh is for Sikhs (and others). Thus if Gurbani says you can or even should recite Gurbani while walking I don't see how Guru Ji would have an objection to us doing so. I am pretty sure that the below tuk does not apply to you. You can say you believe in it, but I am 100% sure that you are not able to see God in all. Same applies to me. ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥ God is everything, God is everything. Without God, there is nothing at all. The beauty of Gurbani lies in the fact that it can talk to people of different avasthas, sometimes in one tuk itself. 2. I am not talking about sleepwalking nor is Gurbachan Singh, so don't bring that topic in. Gurbachan clearly says that one shouldn't walk while reciting Bani because 'insert sakhi'. This is clearly fake because atleast 2 pangtis in Guru Granth Sahib talk about chanting while walking. The reason I mentioned about sleep walking is because samadhi is a bit like deep sleep. Therefore, if a person is in samadhi and is walking around, it is possible that he can injure himself. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 9, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Satkirin, I would rather say God is genderless instead of being both. Because gender is associated with 'joon' (incarnations, life forms) while God is above that thus above gender. 685, Guru Granth Sahib ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕੋਊ ਕੈਸੇ ॥ He is not male, and He is not female; how can anyone describe Him? Guru Nanak Dev God is male, female and genderless, depending on the mindset of a person. If a person thinks of God as his mother, then female; husband, then male; power/energy, then genderless. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 9, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) 1. Guru can do anything, no one is doubting that. Tommorow some Baba like you will say Guru Gobind Singh stole and chelas like you will say 'Guru can do anything, he is all powerful' what kind of logic is that? There is no historical basis for claiming 8 wives, nor is it logical to marry 8 sisters at that age and nor is there any reason. In olden times, marriage used to done at a young age, but ladies would go to their in-laws when they matured. So even if Maharaaj had married 1000 women, it would be fine. Anyways, I will try to do more research on that. Bro, I am not a Baba. Baba is a very repestful word, among Sikhs. Don't use it on an idiot like me. 2. Stop twisting Tuks to suit your agenda. You are believing the English translation which is incorrect, please stop learning solely from internet. The line you mentioned is on panna 932. First of all lets see what is said before your line: ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਆਇ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Prof Sahib Singh: ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ ਅਤੇ ਅਡੋਲਤਾ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਉਹ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ English of prof arth: The human being that chants the virtues of the Lord dwells in peace and poise; he is liberated from the cycle of rebirth. The tuk you mention has nothing to do with reincarnation either, it simply talks about when we are born and go, not cycle of rebirth: ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਸੰਗੁ ॥ Prof Sahib Singh: ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਹੀ (ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ) ਬੰਧਨ-ਰਹਿਤ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਬੰਧਨ-ਰਹਿਤ ਹੀ ਇਥੋਂ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਨਾਹ ਹੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਫਲ ਭੋਗਣ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਨਾਹ ਹੀ ਇਥੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਮੰਦ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਸਹੇੜ ਕੇ ਲੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ), Prof Sahib Singh: The Gurmukh comes in this world without bounds and goes without bounds (i.e. he neither has to come back due to bad past karams nor to enjoy past good karams) Prof Sahib Singh jee is not the ultimate authority, when it comes to Gurbani arths. There have been scholars, higher in avastha and knowledge than him. The word ਨਿਸੰਗੁ, means (one of the meanings), without doubt. Therefore, one of the arths of this tuk is also that Gumukhs can come and go to any place, without doubt. Therefore, even if now, Bhagats want to come back, they can do so. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 9, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 God is male, female and genderless, depending on the mindset of a person. If a person thinks of God as his mother, then female; husband, then male; power/energy, then genderless. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Actually God is all those things because both Nigrun / Sargun. Creator and creation are one so while creator is formless, through its own creation it is ALL forms. Creation's forms are actually illusion just like the dream characters you have in your dreams at night...., how can you say that the monster chasing you in your childhood nightmares has actual form when it was really just brainwave frequencies?? Creator is the consciousness and form is really just within the dream. But all forms in that dream male and female are being played out by the creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 1. Guru did not marry 8 sisters because first of all it makes no sense. Secondly this fact is not supported historically. 2. Why are you ignoring the fact that the same panna mentions: ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਆਇ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ The human being that chants the virtues of the Lord dwells in peace and poise; he is liberated from the cycle of rebirth. Bhagats were not into cycle of reincarnation. They wrote Bani for us, why are you or DDT dragging them into reincarnation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 3. Why are you ignoring the most important point? Why did Baba Gurbachan say no to walking and reciting Bani? I did not think of it earlier but so actually Nagar Kirtans are anti DDT rehat because you recite bani while walking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Gurbani tells us about spiritual avasthas of bhagats and kings like janak... and how far they got. They were all out of lakh chaurasi and cycle of rebirths. The degree of gurbani distortion as shown by sikhkhoj is just unexplainable and a way lot more than I previously imagined. I have absolutely no interest in a discussion of praising or doing nindya of ddt.....They are what they are... and they don't inspire me. Taksal means ''offcial mint'' just like money, coins or a dollar bill isn't genuine or official unless it has been endorsed with seal of mint. It can be seen with the distortions and claims, that ddt is not the official gurmat as it claims. The only offical seal in gurmat, is that by Guru Arjan Dev ji's Mundavani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guruji sealed the gurbani for each individual soul to understand and apply to themselves as they progress themselves in sikhi. He also authorized the "Kunjhi(key)" of Bhai Gurdas jee's vaars, which we can openly use to cross reference and gain deeper understandings of bani. He didn't leave it for any taksals or other authorities, to dictate it's meaning, just as sanskrit vedic texts were left for brahmin castes. Edited May 10, 2015 by Lucky 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) 1. Guru did not marry 8 sisters because first of all it makes no sense. Secondly this fact is not supported historically. Firstly, why does not it make sense? Can you please explain? If you think of Satguru jee as a normal being, then it makes no sense. Secondly, there is historical basis for it. Quote Several records indicate that Har Rai was married, at about age 10, to the seven daughters of the Sikh Daya Raam of Anupshahr who lived on the banks of the Ganges in Balundshahr District of Uttar Pradesh. Unquote [1] [1] - http://sikhism.about.com/od/guruharrai16301661/p/Guru_Har_Rai.htm 2. Why are you ignoring the fact that the same panna mentions: ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਆਇ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ The human being that chants the virtues of the Lord dwells in peace and poise; he is liberated from the cycle of rebirth. Bhagats were not into cycle of reincarnation. They wrote Bani for us, why are you or DDT dragging them into reincarnation? Reincarnation is different than freedom. You or me cannot be born anywhere according to our own will. We are bound by the law of karma and reincarnation. Bhagats are not. They have the freedom to go to any place and be born anywhere, according to their own will. You are confusing reincarnation with freedom. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 10, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 3. Why are you ignoring the most important point? Why did Baba Gurbachan say no to walking and reciting Bani? I did not think of it earlier but so actually Nagar Kirtans are anti DDT rehat because you recite bani while walking? I will do more research on this topic. Anyways, in my opinion, this bachan is meant for spiritually high people and it makes complete sense. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Gurbani tells us about spiritual avasthas of bhagats and kings like janak... and how far they got. They were all out of lakh chaurasi and cycle of rebirths. The degree of gurbani distortion as shown by sikhkhoj is just unexplainable and a way lot more than I previously imagined. I have absolutely no interest in a discussion of praising or doing nindya of ddt.....They are what they are... and they don't inspire me. Bro, don't listen to me or Sikhkhoj and form an opinion. Always go to a scholar and clarify your doubts. Baba jee never said that Bhagats are in the cycle of rebirths or lakh chaurasi. Read the above post. Taksal means ''offcial mint'' just like money, coins or a dollar bill isn't genuine or official unless it has been endorsed with seal of mint. Taksaal also means: ਉੱਤਮ ਸਿਖ੍ਯਾ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲੀ ਪਾਠਸ਼ਾਲਾ (School which imparts high level teaching) It can be seen with the distortions and claims, that ddt is not the official gurmat as it claims. The only offical seal in gurmat, is that by Guru Arjan Dev ji's Mundavani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guruji sealed the gurbani for each individual soul to understand and apply to themselves as they progress themselves in sikhi. He also authorized the "Kunjhi(key)" of Bhai Gurdas jee's vaars, which we can openly use to cross reference and gain deeper understandings of bani. He didn't leave it for any taksals or other authorities, to dictate it's meaning, just as sanskrit vedic texts were left for brahmin castes. I think, you respect Baba Nand Singh jee (if I am not wrong). Do you know, who was the vidya gurdev of Baba jee? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 10, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 It can be seen with the distortions and claims, that ddt is not the official gurmat as it claims. The only offical seal in gurmat, is that by Guru Arjan Dev ji's Mundavani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guruji sealed the gurbani for each individual soul to understand and apply to themselves as they progress themselves in sikhi. He also authorized the "Kunjhi(key)" of Bhai Gurdas jee's vaars, which we can openly use to cross reference and gain deeper understandings of bani. He didn't leave it for any taksals or other authorities, to dictate it's meaning, just as sanskrit vedic texts were left for brahmin castes.So in your opinion raag mala ain't gurbani? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 If DDT is supposed to impart high level of teaching then why take one tuk out of context from a shabad, to tell women to view men as God.....but not also tell men to view women as God since Gurbani many times tells us, in context in shabads.... To see that divine light in each and every heart.... Not just men??? If they were truly following what Gurbani says then they would have interpreted it as both men and women seeing God in each other. But we can't even extrapolate that they meant that at all... Because they actually define what they meant in GRM by telling men to view their Singhni as a faithful 'follower' while telling women to view their husband as Parmeshwar (God). So DDT actually define a hierarchical relationship between men and women with men as leader women as follower. What he says goes, she must be obedient. So again.. That tuk was twisted. I went to three different interpretations of Gurbani and all three say 'view God as husband' (husband lord). In that shabad..... Not one translation says view husband as God... Except for DDT and they only take one line from the shabad to do it. (Because if they had quoted the full shabad their interpretation would not make sense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) So again.. That tuk was twisted. I went to three different interpretations of Gurbani and all three say 'view God as husband' (husband lord). In that shabad..... Not one translation says view husband as God... Except for DDT and they only take one line from the shabad to do it. (Because if they had quoted the full shabad their interpretation would not make sense) ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ कहु नानक जिनि प्रिउ परमेसरु करि जानिआ ॥ Kaho Nānak jin pari▫o parmesar kar jāni▫ā. Says Nanak, she who looks upon the husband as a lord The above arth is valid according to: - DDT Rehat Maryada - Amir Bhandaar teeka - Faridkot wala teeka Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 10, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Paapiman post the entire shabad.... Leaving it that way does not make sense. If it that were a correct interpretation of that tuk then in order to agree with rest of Gurbani telling us to all see that divine light in all hearts (not just in men's hearts) then there should also be a corresponding tuk to tell men to view their wives as God also because without it, it doesn't follow rest of Gurbani. The light of God is not only in men. Gurbani is very clear on this in many shabads.... Shabads taken IN CONTEXT!!! Now post the entire shabad that is from with that interpretation for that line... And It doesn't make sense at all. The shabad is not talking about husband and wife duties. It's talking about women burning themselves on their husbands funeral pyre out of attachment for their physical husbands and it's telling them that they have worth as an individual and to instead take God as their husband lord. If you leave the meaning as 'view husband as God' then it's doing the opposite! Instead of uplifting women, it's shackling them even more to men and not as individuals who have their own worth. It would basically be telling them to jump in the fire because their husband was God and was worth far more than them! Can you even think for yourself??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Also you are referencing rehet maryadas... Things that came after SGGSJ. Things that were written by men with men's own agendas put in there ( I mean who benefits from twisting that tuk? Men of course) I am talking about actually in SGGSJ. In all the translations I have looked in for SGGSJ it says see God as husband lord in that shabad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Sorry Paapiman, no offense intended... but: ਮੂਰਖੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਲੁਝੀਐ ॥੧੯॥मूरखै नालि न लुझीऐ ॥१९॥Mūrkẖai nāl na lujẖī▫ai. ||19||Don't argue with fools. ||19||Guru Nanak Dev You cite websites and videos as proof, you claim something and then say 'case closed', what kind of discussion is that? Gurbani has ONE updesh for all mankind, why would one updesh for brahmgyanis be different to updesh for normal human beings? Taksal of Gurbachan is indirectly saying Nagar Keertans are contrary to gurmat, do you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I am talking about actually in SGGSJ. In all the translations I have looked in for SGGSJ it says see God as husband lord in that shabad. Who did those translations? Men or do you have access to Lord Brahma? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Did Gurbachan have an acces to Lord Brahma? Only after having some Sukhnidhaan - cannabis I guess, after all he was an ex Nihang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts