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paapiman

So-Called Mistakes In Ddt Books

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This has been dragged too much!!

SIkhkhoj ji... please do the khoj correctly. Attached is the Kirtan sohila sakhi from the source u are mentioning. Please let the sangat know that in which line Sant ji says not to read kirtan sohila anytime except at night.

He said.. that from this uthaanka.. a maryada of reading Sohila sahiib at night was set. It doesnt say that it has to be read ONLY in night.

I have been fortunate to spend time with direct students of Baba Gurbachan ji.. and they keep reciting Gurbani.. whole day.. whole night.. everytime.. including.. walking.. eating (listening at that time).. exercising.. driving.. doing kheti.. bathing.. while playing soccer ..lol.. while hiking.. and sleeping (listening Bani at high volume).

And we are not here to search "mistake" in the DDT books.. u have seen the "mistake".. then show us and then we would be glad to have a vichaar on it.

Please introspect it yourself first.

WJKK WJKF

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He says Guru Nanak Sahibs feet were bleeding when the person was reciting Kirtan Sohila while walking? Clearly in the book.

He justifies his so called maryada with the sakhi above, what else does that imply?

You did not answer me, if Japji - a morning prayer - can be recited at any time then why can't Sohila? And why not while walking? That so called maryada is in direct contradiction to Gurbani.

Secondly, what historical basis and logic does he have in making spurious claims as Guru Har Rai having 8 wives who were sisters?

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I have been close to DDT too, my own relative is a known DDT kathavachak but I won't disclose personal information here on online forums.

While there is a beautiful side of kurbani and knowledge to Taksal there is the other side where there are talks of sodomy of students, RSS nexus, honoring KPS Gill, lying in sangat for decades (i.e. baba Thakur Singh about Baba Jarnail Singh Ji) and what not.

Just to increase their points amongst sangat they recount fairy tales, one more than the other.

Anyways, my point is simply that Taksal has no proof of direct lineage from Guru Ji (guru did start sikh schools, but there is no proof of this exact lineage anywhere) and its chiefs were Sikhs who may have had good intentions but were not infallible. They made mistakes like all humans do.

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SIKHKHOJ...

i will be discussing only one point here.. and then we would move on if you want to. i gonna answer the kirtan sohila doubt.. please stick to that and lets clear that point!

Scenario-

mom - beta u might get hurt while going to kitchen and drinking water in night, so from now on switch on the lights and then go to kitchen at night for water.

son - mom, does that mean i cannot drink water during the day?

mom - yes u can during the day, but at night.. always turn on lights.

sikhkhoj - getting confused.. says ure mom is saying ONLY to drink water at night with lights on..not to drink during day. ure mom is crazy. blah blah

so my friend.. tell me does it makes sense?

Guru sahib, did a kautak with his sikh (just as he did many other kautaks like blood and milk from rotis,, etc)

and every kautak was for a message. this kautak according to oral tradition was for setting up a maryada to do nitnem at night.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN ONE CANT DO IT DURING DAY. this means it MUST be done in night before sleep.. in addition u can do it as many times during 24hrs.

NOW, u were saying Baba Gurbachan ji said not to do paath while walking.. tell me where is it written in the pages i attached explicitly.

Please don't give false accusation against him atleast on this point in your future posts.

WJKK WJKF

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Gurbachan Singh narrates a Sakhi of a Sikh doing Sohila (= Bani) while walking. This leads to Guru Jis feet bleeding, Guru summons the Sikh and says from now on do Sohila at night. What do you learn from it?

This is not rocket science. This is not a kautak but a figment of DDTs imagination.

=> Don't do Sohila while walking. OTHERWISE. otherwise what? Well he narrates that Sakhi, otherwise Guru gets hurt physically (bleeds).

So first to illustrate his point he narrates a fake sakhi, which includes the consequences of someone doing Sohila while walking, then proceeds to give a so called maryada that Guru ji said only do Sohila at night.

To explain in your own language:

Our Guru says do Japji in morning. Then a moorakh says: 'Ok Guru ji, in morning but not other times of day?' then Guru explains us 'moorakh, all times of day are same but japji in morning is must but can be done at other times'. Same story for Sohila. Must at night, but can be done at any time.

Edited by SikhKhoj

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Do you really believe Guru Nanak Dev Jis feet started to bleed when a Sikh was reciting Sohila while walking?

This fake sakhi is not only an attack on our bibek budhi (intellect) given by Waheguru but also Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Gurbani.

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THIS DOES NOT MEAN ONE CANT DO IT DURING DAY. this means it MUST be done in night before sleep.. in addition u can do it as many times during 24hrs.

You liar, if Sohila can be done 24/7 then why did Guru Nanak Dev jis feet bleed according to Taksal book when Sikh recited Sohila while walking? Please try to make some sense.

NOW, u were saying Baba Gurbachan ji said not to do paath while walking.. tell me where is it written in the pages i attached explicitly.

Kirtan Sohila is what in your mind? Hip hop, bhangra?

Sohila Sahib is Gurbani/Paath. If your scans mention that one can't recite Gurbani (or Sohila) while walking or it will lead to Guru Nanak Dev Jis feet bleeding (that is what the Sakhi is implying) then what other proof do you need?

Edited by SikhKhoj

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Do you really believe Guru Nanak Dev Jis feet started to bleed when a Sikh was reciting Sohila while walking?

What is wrong with this sakhi? Maharaaj's feet started bleeding as he took away all the pain of the Sikh because the Sikh was reading Gurbani with love and attention. Why cannot you understand, such a simple concept?

This fake sakhi is not only an attack on our bibek budhi (intellect) given by Waheguru but also Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Gurbani.

So according to you, Satguru jee protecting his Sikhs, is an attack on bibek budhi?

What has happened to you brother?

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

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You liar, if Sohila can be done 24/7 then why did Guru Nanak Dev jis feet bleed according to Taksal book when Sikh recited Sohila while walking? Please try to make some sense.

Even, Gurbani instructs us to mediate during amrit vela.

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

Certain times have been set, to recite specific paaths. This is called Maryada. It does not imply that we cannot recite those paaths, at other times.

It is so simple to understand.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Edited by paapiman

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What is wrong with this sakhi? Maharaaj's feet started bleeding as he took away all the pain of the Sikh because the Sikh was reading Gurbani with love and attention. Why cannot you understand, such a simple concept?

So according to you, Satguru jee protecting his Sikhs, is an attack on bibek budhi?

What has happened to you brother?

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Why can't you understand simple concept of "soul bride" vs physical wife?

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NOW, u were saying Baba Gurbachan ji said not to do paath while walking.. tell me where is it written in the pages i attached explicitly.

Good point. SikhKhoj, where is it written? If you imply, then that is your opinion, which is wrong in this case.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

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Then the DDT in your opinion should be kicked out of the panth because you just compared ram rai to taksal...

No DDT is a great taksal and doing prachar if our panth but they don't give women equal rights. like there gianis preachings that except being in panj pyare women are free to do any seva then tell me why there is no wonen jathedar of DDT.

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I have been close to DDT too, my own relative is a known DDT kathavachak but I won't disclose personal information here on online forums.

While there is a beautiful side of kurbani and knowledge to Taksal there is the other side where there are talks of sodomy of students, RSS nexus, honoring KPS Gill, lying in sangat for decades (i.e. baba Thakur Singh about Baba Jarnail Singh Ji) and what not.

Just to increase their points amongst sangat they recount fairy tales, one more than the other.

Anyways, my point is simply that Taksal has no proof of direct lineage from Guru Ji (guru did start sikh schools, but there is no proof of this exact lineage anywhere) and its chiefs were Sikhs who may have had good intentions but were not infallible. They made mistakes like all humans do.

You are aware that Baba Thakur Singh Jee did in fact believe Sant Jee was alive? Don't you? Or are you ignoring that fact and trying to make him look as if he lied to Sangat?

Baba Thakur Singh was in a poor state of mental health when he took charge of DamDami Taksal. By the early 90s many agents had already entered Taksal, unknown to Baba Jee.

Baba Thakur Singh Jee was told by 5 Singhs that Sant Jee was alive and so he took it as that.

Baba Thakur Singh was manipulated due to his old age, which was quite evident to those who have seen it with first hand accounts. A Singh from Akhand Kirtani Jatha went to Mehta in the 90s and from the looks of it, "he seemed to have been in the very early stages of Alzheimer's. Additionally, Baba Jee was huddled by many men who even spoke for him and put words into his mouth." He noted furthermore that a close companion from the Taksal had warned of many agents infiltrating the Taksal.

Baba Jee didn't lie, he was lied to, he didn't have any reason to lie about Sant Ji's Shaheedi.

Furthermore, Sodomy began when Dhumma took charge of the Bhindra Mehta faction, this same group uses and spreads drugs/intoxicants, edited and changed DDT's books, and is at the feet of the government.

I find it interesting how you like to imply that DDT

has RSS connections and ties with Anti-panthic elements, to that, Sikhkhoj, I'd like to give you a reality check. It's 2015, the whole entire Panth is infested by the RSS. If you think DDT is the only organization that is in cahoots with Panth Dhokis then you must be terribly ignorant or just targeting Taksal and picking out any fault you possibly can.

Nanaksar, AKJ (Panchainees), DDT, SGPC, Nihang Dals, Hazooris, Singh Sabha, Nirmalas, all are dancing to the tunes of the RSS or another organization. It's purely stupid and ignorant for you to just target Taksal and act as if they're the retarded child of Panth. The whole Panth is in a bad shape, it's just plain pathetic for you to just pick out the faults in Taksal and ignore all other sects.

You state that they are humans and make mistakes yet you defame them and claim that they are liars for simply believing and preaching concepts or stories that they were taught at an early age.

Edited by Kuttabanda2

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Is it so hard 2+2 = 4?

Sikh recited Sohila while walking => Gurus feet start bleeding => Guru instructs from now on recite Sohila at night.

What is Gurbachan Singh implying? He wouldn't recount that fake sakhi had Kirtan Sohila been allowed to do while walking in day time because if that happened guru jis feet would start bleeding.

Can't recite Sohila (= Gurbani) while walking

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- Thakur Singh really did believe Baba Bhindranwale Ji was alive. But had he been a brahmgyani (if that even exists, Gurbani says bhulan andar sab ko abhul guru kartar) he would've known better. Thats my whole point.

- I agree Thakur Singh was manipulated, some elder Taksal Singhs (Singhs who had been Panj Pyare to Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindran) told me this. But my question is, are the 'infallible Brahmgyanis' manipulatable?

- Sodomy charges predate Dhumma. I have some gupt information I can't disclose because it will discredit the Kharkoo movement but ask anyone about the Babbar-Bhindranwale rift and you will hear some allegations of the 80s.

- RSS was welcomed by Thakur Singh:

Rashtriya Sikh Sangat may take out nation-wide yatra
Yudhvir Rana, TNN 16 October 2003, 08:25pm IST
...
Raghubir claimed that RSS had earlier taken out a similar yatra during the tercentenary of birth of Khalsa from Patna Sahib to Anandpur Sahib which was led by Parmanand Ji Maharaj. He claimed that chief of Damdami Taksa, Baba Thakur Singh had welcomed the yatra and had arranged for the langar at Chowk Mehta.
...

Also KP Gill siropa incident in the 90s happened at Taksal, but fair enough Taksal was infiltrated by agents.

- If they aren't liars they aren't all knowing brahmgyanis either, time for some people on this forum to wake up and realise that because some guys here believe these Babas words are gods word.

Edited by SikhKhoj

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All of this should be taken with a pinch of salt..if you overall look at the masses that follow them are the pindu types ..i have experienced exaggeration in the kathas ..but i know that thats what suits the gentry which is after them..i just take what inspires me ..even with Giani Thakur singh ji ..the number of paaths he quotes ..there is no way i would be able to do them..108 japji sahibs in a day ! whew i rather stop counting and do till i feel my heart is full...but the fact is his exaggeration atleast creates the drive in me to chant the banis .

Is it so hard 2+2 = 4?

Sikh recited Sohila while walking => Gurus feet start bleeding => Guru instructs from now on recite Sohila at night.

What is Gurbachan Singh implying? He wouldn't recount that fake sakhi had Kirtan Sohila been allowed to do while walking in day time because if that happened guru jis feet would start bleeding.

Can't recite Sohila (= Gurbani) while walking

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Man why? why don't you take Bhasaurias and Missionaries attacks with a pinch of salt? These double standards are so stupid.

If Taksal claims 7th Guru had 8th wives, take it with a pinch of salt.

If Missionary Ghagga claims that 1st Guru ate halal, then its RSS attack on Sikhi blabla.

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yaar thandd rakhh thand ! bhasauriye ja ghaghhe vargi gandh nahi paahnde taksali giani .

Man why? why don't you take Bhasaurias and Missionaries attacks with a pinch of salt? These double standards are so stupid.

If Taksal claims 7th Guru had 8th wives, take it with a pinch of salt.

If Missionary Ghagga claims that 1st Guru ate halal, then its RSS attack on Sikhi blabla.

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Yeah taksal ne ta jidan gand paya hi ni hunda

taksalis have sharda which is good, but don't question and recite anything from old (interpolated) books and rehats. missionaries question which is good, but they question too much.

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missionaries can scrap the entire cause ..mainu ik labbeya si kehinda fateh nahi bulaunni..Gur Fateh hi thik aa...nonsensical logic he was giving ..i just couldnt take it..they are confused atheists

Yeah taksal ne ta jidan gand paya hi ni hunda

taksalis have sharda which is good, but don't question and recite anything from old (interpolated) books and rehats. missionaries question which is good, but they question too much.

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I told you, missionaries overquestion but I also won't believe Lav reincarnated as Panj Pyara and some Bhagats came back too. Thats nonsense. Nor did 7th patshah marry 8 sisters. Confused polytheists haha

Shad yaar, mere valo sarea nu goli maar, ik rehat chahidi jo SGGS di bani te khari utardi hove bas

and before you call me a missionary

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ;)

Edited by SikhKhoj

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Mannana nahi Mannana oh te apni marzi aa maalko..o tu kaahda missionary ..lokanu nu jeene de yaar..goli na maari..

I told you, missionaries overquestion but I also won't believe Lav reincarnated as Panj Pyara and some Bhagats came back too. Thats nonsense. Nor did 7th patshah marry 8 sisters. Confused polytheists haha

Shad yaar, mere valo sarea nu goli maar, ik rehat chahidi jo SGGS di bani te khari utardi hove bas

and before you call me a missionary

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ;)

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Sikhkhoj... if you are happy with your interpolation... then so be it!

All I wanted to say is that its not written explicitly about not reading bani while walking.. thus interpolations come into play..

u r taking it as not reading while walking.. i m taking it as just a kautak for one time just to set up a maryada..

its just the tone that comes from ure arguments about dissing and doing nindya of Baba Gurbachan Singh ji. hence i put it up for the sangat to decide whether he told explicitly or not.

anyways.. rabb raakha.. theres other more valuable learning posts in this forum.. than finding faults (based on your interpolation) in DDT leaders.

WJKK WJKF

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I told you, missionaries overquestion but I also won't believe Lav reincarnated as Panj Pyara and some Bhagats came back too. Thats nonsense. Nor did 7th patshah marry 8 sisters. Confused polytheists haha

Shad yaar, mere valo sarea nu goli maar, ik rehat chahidi jo SGGS di bani te khari utardi hove bas

and before you call me a missionary

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ;)

Bro, answer the questions below.

Even Nitnaym banis are done, in relation to time.

Why do we recite Sri Rehraas Sahib jee after sunset?

Why do we recite Sri Kirtan Sohila Sahib jee, before sleeping?

One can also say that the above is against Gurmat, as Gurbani states:

ਹਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਨਿਤ ਭੁੰਚਹੁ ਸਰਬ ਵੇਲਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਵਹੁ ॥

So eat the Ambrosial Name of the Lord as your food; put it into your mouth at all times.

Why did Satguru jee say Sri Rehraas Sahib jee, should be read after sunset? Why is the factor of time attached to it?

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Edited by paapiman

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Curious, I don't know whether you are acting like this or you really cant understand the fact that Gurbachan narrates a fake Sakhi where Guru bleeds due to gurbani recital while walking and then Guru ji apparently makes maryada of sohila at night. What is so hard to conclude? It is your love for Taksal blinding you. People like you will never question "Mahapurkhs" who say (such as your DDT Gurbachan Singh) that 7th Guru married 8 sisters which is a blasphemy, nor do you question anything they said. Any fairy tale they recount is 'brahm gyanta', actually the more fairy tales they narrate the more 'waheguru omg brahmgyani' reactions moorakh Sikhs give.

Papi, japji HAS to be done in morning but CAN also be done in evening. same way sohila HAS to be done before sleeping but CAN be done anytime.

Edited by SikhKhoj

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