Jump to content

Why Sikhi failed to spread


amardeep

Recommended Posts

If there were strict views on meat eating why do you think that the issue is argued over and over, day after day, week after week, month after month and so on.

​Good point. It is discussed over and over as it is not easy to abandon meat eating, due to its irresistible cravings. Meat eaters want to justify it, in order to enjoy the pleasures of the tongue.

Anyways, we better stay on topic.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited by paapiman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Majority Sikhs were never strict vegetarians  even akal takhat has not banned it. anyway vegetarianism was never problem  for Haryana , Rajasthan as many communnitties in India are much more strict vegetarians than sikhs. This is totally false that vegetarianism stopped growth of sikhism  All baba's , guru's in India also preach strict vegetarianism yet there following reach in millions .Dera sacha sauda has attracted millions of followers in just 2 decades

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Majority Sikhs were never strict vegetarians  even akal takhat has not banned it. anyway vegetarianism was never problem  for Haryana , Rajasthan as many communnitties in India are much more strict vegetarians than sikhs. This is totally false that vegetarianism stopped growth of sikhism  All baba's , guru's in India also preach strict vegetarianism yet there following reach in millions .Dera sacha sauda has attracted millions of followers in just 2 decades

This is a good point, but you will have to agree that, outside of India, majority of the people in the world are non-vegetarians. There might be other reasons for lack of spread in India such as intoxicants, lack of prachaar, caste system, poverty, slavery, etc.

Lacto-vegetarian diet is one of the reasons, not the only reason, for the lack of spread of Sikhism.

​Bro, let's move to a different topic. Leave this topic for historical approach.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited by paapiman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since we already explored past, what now? Lets looks at the future. I think whilst sikhi saroop is spreading out in west which is good news but  actual tatgyan of sikhi isn't as most sikhs are simply finding solace in sikhi eccentric political theocracy not looking beyond it towards actual religious-martial-spiritual sikhi. Political theocracy is prefect recipe for future conflicts, fighting among each other, extremism, ego battles. We were quite quick to blame our elders and gurdwaras controls but youths arent any better as one does not need to look that far... amount of crap goes on among sikh youths on facebook, forums.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have not explored the reasons yet. What we've debated so far was the plurality of Sikhs in the past. All of these Sikhs scattered across different places in West and South Asia however, were ALWAYS in a minority, even in Punjab. What is the reason for this? Untill 1966, the Sikhs never made up a majority anywhere in the world....Why did'n more convert to Sikhi?

Edited by amardeep
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paapi, here is what Dabistan (earliest non Sikh source, not free of errors though) has to say:

Among the Sikh there is nothing of the austerities and worship as enjoyed by the religious law of the Hindus. In eating and drinking they have no restriction like the Hindus. When Partap Mal Giani saw a Hindu boy who had a mind to embrace lslam he said  "Why do you become a Muhammadan ? lf you have an inclination to eat every thing you may become a Sikh of the Guru and eat whatever you like." 

I don't even want to get in a meat debate because hundreds of sources exist which confirm meat eating was not prohibited.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Men keeping kesh should be quite easy but it appears based on my observation, its quite hard for women in west or even punjabi women to keep kesh due to social pressure to look certain way..again root cause being mind being conditioned certain way that conditioning can be loosen or removed by gurmat spiritual discourses, meditation etc as gurmat spiritual marg ensues bliss, pure congnitive perception of things,  sharp intuitive understanding real self-certainty-assertiveness rather being always confused and also ensues, de-attached-bairaag. so its quite important monaie be exposed to actual essence of sikhi, expereince sikhi on spiritual level..keeping kesh in relations with one's religious- spirituality rather than just simply hearing same old rhetoric - keep kesh for sake of keeping or traditional cultural-religious reasons.

​The thread on Harnaam Kaur illustrates this perfectly... some of the SAME Singhs on here who preach about Gurmat and keeping kesh, were the first ones to make jokes about her and suggest that the SIngh who married her must be a closet Homosexual.  Yet all she is doing is keeping her kesh... its one of the four bujjar kurehits and she is following it no matter what anyone else says.  Who cares if she has a newfound confidence from the attention she got as a result? Why can't the same SInghs preaching about kesh and gurmat be supportive of a Singhni who is keeping her kesh?? The answer to that question might hit home as to why....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because satkiran keeping a beard for a woman is not rehit. You may think it is but others think it's out right stupid. Our Punjabi women are meant to be beautiful, their looks their attitude, not looking like a bloke who can kitch ten pints more than me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If she is following it so much please tell me why did she get her arms shaved off for her tattos is kesh means so much to her? Also please find out why she drinks when she is apparently amritdhari

 Please let's not waste time on harnaam, she is a joke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually it does not specify males only for beadbi of kesh.  And it IS one of the 4 bujjar kurehits.  It says to not remove ANY hairs.  

And where in ANY rehet maryada does it say women have to be *physically* beautiful? Where does it say that physical beauty matters?? Everything I have read has stated the opposite, that physical beauty is an illusion.  

As for the tattoos, I told you already she may have had them prior, or did not shave for them.  Do you know she shaved?? Where did you see that?  I am sure a good artist can work around a bit of hairs. And I don't remember her ever drinking *I assume you mean alcohol*  where did you read / see that??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because satkiran keeping a beard for a woman is not rehit. You may think it is but others think it's out right stupid. Our Punjabi women are meant to be beautiful, their looks their attitude, not looking like a bloke who can kitch ten pints more than me. 

​Bro, cutting kesh is a cardinal sin for both, males and females.

Bhul chuk maaf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You forgot paapi, if the person isn't amritdhari they are a patitpatit according to you. They can do as they please as they aren't Sikhs. 

​Bro, non-amritdharis are patit according to Gurmat. Harnaam Kaur is an amritdhari. Patits can shave as much as they want.

Bhul chuk maaf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

​Bro, non-amritdharis are patit according to Gurmat. Harnaam Kaur is an amritdhari. Patits can shave as much as they want.

Bhul chuk maaf

Amritdharis can't drink. Why does she? 

 

Well I always thought a patit was someone who breaks his amrit by doing a bujjar K....Any members take on what a patit is defined as?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok another question when was the last time consensus was done on  sikh population recently and how they are calculated? Is it through simple vital stats birth certificates in india? 

​Census was done in last 2011 , no certificate was required whoever call himself a sikh is calculated as sikh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last Indian census was done in 2011. I think it estimated some 19 million Sikhs of which 14-16 were in Punjab.

During the Misl era there were many conversions to Sikhi, but after the fall of the Lahore Darbar, many Sikhs started reverting back to Hinduism. In the early 1850s British administrators started saying that due to the pace of these conversions it was only a matter of time before Sikhi would be a product of past history. Trumpp said something similiar some 30 years later.

​You are confusing census of 2001 with 2011. The full figures are still not released 

  1. The population of India as per 2011 census was 1,210,854,977. India added 181.5 million to its population since 2001, slightly lower than the population of Brazil. India with 2.4% of the world's surface area accounts for 17.5% of its population. Uttar Pradesh is the most populous state with roughly 200 million people.
The share of other religious groups like Sikhs and Christians in the total population remained steady at a little over 2 per cent each, roughly in the same range as in the 2001 census. - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/census-hindu-share-dips-below-80-muslim-share-grows-but-slower/#sthash.FDc1o5bA.dpuf
 
It means there are round 25 million sikhs
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because of a 0% forced conversion rate 

​Nah, that aint true. My grandpa told me that some people got converted under duress at partition. He saw it with his own eyes. 

Plus (just as a passing sharing of an anecdotal tale) when I was younger, someone told me that certain nihangs would convert sullah on the battlefield - don't know how truthful that is, or if it was a tiny number of cases?

But I do get the point: compared to certain others (mainly but not solely Abrahamic faiths), Sikhs haven't really forced their religion down people's throats. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

​Good point. It is discussed over and over as it is not easy to abandon meat eating, due to its irresistible cravings. Meat eaters want to justify it, in order to enjoy the pleasures of the tongue.

​It is discussed only by the vegetarians who wish to impose conditions on the Panth which never existed.

I'm sure that you eat rukhi roti only with thanda pani.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

​My grandpa told me that some people got converted under duress at partition. He saw it with his own eyes. 

​In West Panjab, Sikhs converted to Islam to save their lives and property. In East Panjab Muslim became Sikhs to save their lives. My Chachas Nanke had 2 Muslims who became Sikhs and used to do Granthi sewa at Gurdwara. However when they became aged and in ill-health they begged the Sikhs in the village not to cremate them but bury them.

There were a handful of Muslims who did convert, but from my own research, certainly more Sikhs converted over in West Panjab to Islam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Untill 1966, the Sikhs never made up a majority anywhere in the world....Why did'n more convert to Sikhi?

​Can we agree that logically the more potential converts lay in the Hindu religion?

It also has something to do with the way the Hindus saw us after 1947. They didn't want the Sikhs to be as we are, but to become Hindus again. They see us as Hindus, warrior Hindus, but now the threat of Islamic Persia/Middle East/Central Asia is no longer existing, they may have seen Sikhi as a past relic?

 

This make sense ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...