Important Point on Sikh Rehat Maryada (SRM) and Panj Pyare

[mrsingh]

Paapi presumably like Dhumma you fully agree with Damdami Taksal's support for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections.

Damdami Taksal have a different Rahiraas to the majority of the Panth. Why should the Panth accept their Rahiraas?

You paapi man are a non-Sikh as you openly proclaim and admit yourself.

It's fine if you want to worship Vishnu and Ram Chander but why can't you see that others do not wish to do so.

Longowal's Akali Dal, Singh Sabha, AKJ, missionaries etc all fully opposed Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections. Only Damdami Taksal and Santa Sinh's Buddha Dal supported Indira Gandhi.

Had Indira Gandhi been defeated in 1980 then the last 35years of suffering the Panth has endured may never have come to pass.

 

 

This is Damdami Taksal's Rahiraas:

 

(Damdami Taksal worships Ram Chander and Vishnu):

ਦੋਹਰਾ॥

ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ॥

ਸੁਰਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ॥1॥

ਚੌਪਈ॥

ਜੋ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੈ ਅਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ॥

ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਤਿਹ ਨਿਕਟ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ॥

ਬਿਸਨ ਭਗਤ ਕੀ ਏ ਫਲ ਹੋਈ॥

ਆਧਿ ਬਯਾਧਿ ਛ੍ਵੈ ਸਕੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ॥1॥

 

(in Roman transliteration):

Dohraa

Raam kathaa jug jug atal, sabh koee bahkhat nayt.

Surg baas raghubar karaa, sagri puree samay. 1

Chaupai

Jo ih kathaa sunai aur gaavai.

Dookh paap tih nikat naa aavai.

Bisan bhagat kee ih phal ho-ee.

Aaadhi byadhi chhvai sakai naa ko-ee. 1

 

(English translation): Dohra

The story of Ram will remain known through Ages and all shall ever narrate it.

Raghubar (Ram) went to heavens and took his entire city with him.

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Ram):

 

 

Dohra Those who will listen to or sing this (Ram’s) story;

sufferings and sins will not come near him.

This will be the fruit (profit) of the meditation upon the name of Vishnu.

No disease or illness will be able to touch him. 1

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Vishnu also):

 

Edited July 20, 2015 by mrsingh

[hsingh8963]

Paapi presumably like Dhumma you fully agree with Damdami Taksal's support for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections.

Damdami Taksal have a different Rahiraas to the majority of the Panth. Why should the Panth accept their Rahiraas?

You paapi man are a non-Sikh as you openly proclaim and admit yourself.

It's fine if you want to worship Vishnu and Ram Chander but why can't you see that others do not wish to do so.

Longowal's Akali Dal, Singh Sabha, AKJ, missionaries etc all fully opposed Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections. Only Damdami Taksal and Santa Sinh's Buddha Dal supported Indira Gandhi.

Had Indira Gandhi been defeated in 1980 then the last 35years of suffering the Panth has endured may never have come to pass.

 

 

This is Damdami Taksal's Rahiraas:

 

(Damdami Taksal worships Ram Chander and Vishnu):

ਦੋਹਰਾ॥

ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ॥

ਸੁਰਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ॥1॥

ਚੌਪਈ॥

ਜੋ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੈ ਅਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ॥

ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਤਿਹ ਨਿਕਟ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ॥

ਬਿਸਨ ਭਗਤ ਕੀ ਏ ਫਲ ਹੋਈ॥

ਆਧਿ ਬਯਾਧਿ ਛ੍ਵੈ ਸਕੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ॥1॥

 

(in Roman transliteration):

Dohraa

Raam kathaa jug jug atal, sabh koee bahkhat nayt.

Surg baas raghubar karaa, sagri puree samay. 1

Chaupai

Jo ih kathaa sunai aur gaavai.

Dookh paap tih nikat naa aavai.

Bisan bhagat kee ih phal ho-ee.

Aaadhi byadhi chhvai sakai naa ko-ee. 1

 

(English translation): Dohra

The story of Ram will remain known through Ages and all shall ever narrate it.

Raghubar (Ram) went to heavens and took his entire city with him.

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Ram):

 

 

Dohra Those who will listen to or sing this (Ram’s) story;

sufferings and sins will not come near him.

This will be the fruit (profit) of the meditation upon the name of Vishnu.

No disease or illness will be able to touch him. 1

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Vishnu also):

 

DO NOT PICK AND CHOOSE TUKS TO PUSH your own agenda. That is out of Sampooran rehras. Chaupai Sahib...  

 

Openly attacking Sri Dasam Bani. 

[Guest]

Lord Ram was an avtar of Lord Vishnu

On Vishnave Namah

Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawale did Katha to prove how great Lord Vishnu and Lord Ram are

Om Vishnave Namah

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

DO NOT PICK AND CHOOSE TUKS TO PUSH your own agenda. That is out of Sampooran rehras. Chaupai Sahib...  

 

Openly attacking Sri Dasam Bani. 

Oh you mean don't do like Damdami Taksal does? 

Because they pick and choose tuks to suit their agenda:

They use this one, without taking the lines immediately following, you lose the context, which tells us that the idea of physical pollution (and useless rituals to purify oneself) are false deeds, that the one who is impure is the one who 'sucks the blood' of others (using metaphor to speak of exploitation of others). So, like majority of Gurbani it uses allegory to take a physical reference and shift our thinking to our own mind, thoughts and deeds. DDT however, uses it alone to try to say that blood causes pollution. How can blood be pollution if blood is life force of all animals?  They pick and chose this tuk to try to declare women as impure because of menstruation.
 
ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
Je raṯ lagai kapṛai jāmā ho▫e palīṯ.
If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted

They pick and chose this next one and changed the context which is that a true sati is one who takes God as their true husband... as soul-bride.  But to push their agenda of women being inferior, they again took the tuk out of context and twisted it to sound like it's telling physical wives to see and serve their physical husband as a God.  If the original context was to forget these physical attachments and take God as your true husband, and surrender to God's will alone, then how can you view a physical husband AS God?  Certainly we are to see the divine light in ALL humans, but an individual part of a whole, can never equal the whole.  And if a wife is being told to serve a physical husband as a God, then how can she take God as her true husband as a soul bride? DDT took this tuk out of context to push their agenda. 

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ 
Kaho Nānak jin pari▫o parmesar kar jāni▫ā. 
Says Nanak, she who looks upon the Transcendent Lord as her Husband,
ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੯੯॥ 
Ḏẖan saṯī ḏargėh parvāni▫ā. ||4||30||99|| 
is the blessed 'satee'; she is received with honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||30||99||

And these are only two examples, and there are more! So you can't tell one person not to do something, that you are supporting Damdami Taksal doing the same thing.
That makes you a bit of a hypocrite! 

 

[ibrute]

This is Damdami Taksal's Rahiraas:

 

(Damdami Taksal worships Ram Chander and Vishnu):

ਦੋਹਰਾ॥

ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ॥

ਸੁਰਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ॥1॥

ਚੌਪਈ॥

ਜੋ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੈ ਅਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ॥

ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਤਿਹ ਨਿਕਟ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ॥

ਬਿਸਨ ਭਗਤ ਕੀ ਏ ਫਲ ਹੋਈ॥

ਆਧਿ ਬਯਾਧਿ ਛ੍ਵੈ ਸਕੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ॥1॥

 

(in Roman transliteration):

Dohraa

Raam kathaa jug jug atal, sabh koee bahkhat nayt.

Surg baas raghubar karaa, sagri puree samay. 1

Chaupai

Jo ih kathaa sunai aur gaavai.

Dookh paap tih nikat naa aavai.

Bisan bhagat kee ih phal ho-ee.

Aaadhi byadhi chhvai sakai naa ko-ee. 1

 

(English translation): Dohra

The story of Ram will remain known through Ages and all shall ever narrate it.

Raghubar (Ram) went to heavens and took his entire city with him.

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Ram):

 

 

Dohra Those who will listen to or sing this (Ram’s) story;

sufferings and sins will not come near him.

This will be the fruit (profit) of the meditation upon the name of Vishnu.

No disease or illness will be able to touch him. 1

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Vishnu also):

 

I can explain what is saying in the Rehras Sahib which is by the way correct, don't bring up things you didn't research and just quoting some nonsense interpretation. I can explain to you but I can't understand for you. 

Admin freeze the thread it is not going anywhere, just hurling accusations and creating animosity in the forum.

Instead of the circle jerk debate, why don't bring up something which we can all learn, all I can see is hate spewing in this forum. Why don't you guys messages each other without involving forum.

 

[Harjots8963]

Oh you mean don't do like Damdami Taksal does? 
Because they pick and choose tuks to suit their agenda:

They use this one, without taking the lines immediately following, you lose the context, which tells us that the idea of physical pollution (and useless rituals to purify oneself) are false deeds, that the one who is impure is the one who 'sucks the blood' of others (using metaphor to speak of exploitation of others). So, like majority of Gurbani it uses allegory to take a physical reference and shift our thinking to our own mind, thoughts and deeds. DDT however, uses it alone to try to say that blood causes pollution. How can blood be pollution if blood is life force of all animals?  They pick and chose this tuk to try to declare women as impure because of menstruation.
 
ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
Je raṯ lagai kapṛai jāmā ho▫e palīṯ.
If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted

They pick and chose this next one and changed the context which is that a true sati is one who takes God as their true husband... as soul-bride.  But to push their agenda of women being inferior, they again took the tuk out of context and twisted it to sound like it's telling physical wives to see and serve their physical husband as a God.  If the original context was to forget these physical attachments and take God as your true husband, and surrender to God's will alone, then how can you view a physical husband AS God?  Certainly we are to see the divine light in ALL humans, but an individual part of a whole, can never equal the whole.  And if a wife is being told to serve a physical husband as a God, then how can she take God as her true husband as a soul bride? DDT took this tuk out of context to push their agenda. 

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ 
Kaho Nānak jin pari▫o parmesar kar jāni▫ā. 
Says Nanak, she who looks upon the Transcendent Lord as her Husband,
ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੯੯॥ 
Ḏẖan saṯī ḏargėh parvāni▫ā. ||4||30||99|| 
is the blessed 'satee'; she is received with honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||30||99||

And these are only two examples, and there are more! So you can't tell one person not to do something, that you are supporting Damdami Taksal doing the same thing.
That makes you a bit of a hypocrite! 

 

NO. STOP.

What he is doing is attacking bani completely. He is using the bani of Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj to push hate towards Damdami Taksal.

I don't care what you think of Damdami Taksal. But don't defend his misuse of Tuks of bani.

You cannot hope to understand because you don't even completely believe in Sri Dasam Granth Ji.

Bani IS the GURU. So be careful with what you say.

You are going in circles with the same Tuk over and over again.


PLEASE Everyone do not further this discussion until as I said earlier. Satkirin Ji you state what your understanding of the video is and what points were brought up.

Even those on the other side of the debate against Baba Hari Singh Ji didn't go in circles like this and recognized what he said to provide a useful discussion that this was supposed to be.

I can explain what is saying in the Rehras Sahib which is by the way correct, don't bring up things you didn't research and just quoting some nonsense interpretation. I can explain to you but I can't understand for you. 

Admin freeze the thread it is not going anywhere, just hurling accusations and creating animosity in the forum.

Instead of the circle jerk debate, why don't bring up something which we can all learn, all I can see is hate spewing in this forum. Why don't you guys messages each other without involving forum.

 

That's what this was supposed to be.

The points brought up in the video are really interesting...

For so long we have argued that we need a complete maryada... Now we can see the issues and decide how to solve them.

[mrsingh]

Harjot Paji relax. There is no hate. This is a civilised discussion of two different ideological positions.

You believe in the DDT Maryada. Fine. I respect your right to believe that way.

However, what you need to appreciate is why the majority of the Sikh Panth do not and will never accept the DDT Maryada.

Damdami Taksal are well known and historically documented for having refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs prior to the 1930's.

And there of further reports of them having carried out such blatant anti-Sikh discrimination even after that.

Then comes DDT's unforgivable support of Indira Gandhi + Congress in the 1980 elections. A decision hated by most of the Panth.

If it was not for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, the name Damdami Taksal (first mentioned in the 1970's) would have faded away from Panthic consciousness as the Sanatan sect that refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs and supported Indira Gandhi in the 1980 elections, which in turn led to the next 35 years of suffering for the Panth.

So I respectfully ask you to see why other Sikhs that are the majority of the Panth are not open to accepting the DDT Maryada.

There is not a shred of hatred and I don't believe Dhumma followers need to abandon their Maryada or respect for Sri Chand.

Let all Sikhs believe what they want and let us respect that those that follow a slightly different Maryada can still be considered Sikhs but obviously where some disagree with DDT ideology vis a vis impurity we will all agree to disagree.

 

Edited July 21, 2015 by mrsingh

[Harjots8963]

Harjot Paji relax. There is no hate. This is a civilised discussion of two different ideological positions.

You believe in the DDT Maryada. Fine. I respect your right to believe that way.

However, what you need to appreciate is why the majority of the Sikh Panth do not and will never accept the DDT Maryada.

Damdami Taksal are well known and historically documented for having refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs prior to the 1930's.

And there of further reports of them having carried out such blatant anti-Sikh discrimination even after that.

Then comes DDT's unforgivable support of Indira Gandhi + Congress in the 1980 elections. A decision hated by most of the Panth.

If it was not for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, the name Damdami Taksal (first mentioned in the 1970's) would have faded away from Panthic consciousness as the Sanatan sect that refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs and supported Indira Gandhi in the 1980 elections, which in turn led to the next 35 years of suffering for the Panth.

So I respectfully ask you to see why other Sikhs that are the majority of the Panth are not open to accepting the DDT Maryada.

There is not a shred of hatred and I don't believe Dhumma followers need to abandon their Maryada or respect for Sri Chand.

Let all Sikhs believe what they want and let us respect that those that follow a slightly different Maryada can still be considered Sikhs but obviously where some disagree with DDT ideology vis a vis impurity we will all agree to disagree.

 

Everyone do not further this discussion until as I said earlier. Satkirin Ji you state what your understanding of the video is and what points were brought up.

[mrsingh]

Harjot Paji I think the following video contains much of what the disagreement centred upon.

 

[Harjots8963]

Harjot Paji I think the following video contains much of what the disagreement centred upon.

 

No. That is a different topic altogether Mr. Singh Ji.

 

[hsingh8963]

Oh you mean don't do like Damdami Taksal does? 
Because they pick and choose tuks to suit their agenda:

They use this one, without taking the lines immediately following, you lose the context, which tells us that the idea of physical pollution (and useless rituals to purify oneself) are false deeds, that the one who is impure is the one who 'sucks the blood' of others (using metaphor to speak of exploitation of others). So, like majority of Gurbani it uses allegory to take a physical reference and shift our thinking to our own mind, thoughts and deeds. DDT however, uses it alone to try to say that blood causes pollution. How can blood be pollution if blood is life force of all animals?  They pick and chose this tuk to try to declare women as impure because of menstruation.
 
ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
Je raṯ lagai kapṛai jāmā ho▫e palīṯ.
If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted

They pick and chose this next one and changed the context which is that a true sati is one who takes God as their true husband... as soul-bride.  But to push their agenda of women being inferior, they again took the tuk out of context and twisted it to sound like it's telling physical wives to see and serve their physical husband as a God.  If the original context was to forget these physical attachments and take God as your true husband, and surrender to God's will alone, then how can you view a physical husband AS God?  Certainly we are to see the divine light in ALL humans, but an individual part of a whole, can never equal the whole.  And if a wife is being told to serve a physical husband as a God, then how can she take God as her true husband as a soul bride? DDT took this tuk out of context to push their agenda. 

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ 
Kaho Nānak jin pari▫o parmesar kar jāni▫ā. 
Says Nanak, she who looks upon the Transcendent Lord as her Husband,
ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੯੯॥ 
Ḏẖan saṯī ḏargėh parvāni▫ā. ||4||30||99|| 
is the blessed 'satee'; she is received with honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||30||99||

And these are only two examples, and there are more! So you can't tell one person not to do something, that you are supporting Damdami Taksal doing the same thing.
That makes you a bit of a hypocrite! 

 

Still waiting.... 

[Guest]

Ok time to close the thread. We will close the thread by tom, please take your time at this point to provide your closing statements in which we can all learn:

 

[mrsingh]

Harjot Veer and N30 Paji, in respect of a new (Amritdhari) Maryada acceptable to both sides of the spectrum I believe that we should not define ourselves as Sikhs according to the Maryada we follow. Our loyalty to the Sikh Panth and it's primary societal objective of Sarbat da Bhala should be more important than enforcing the respective Maryada's that we believe upon other Sikhs.

By so doing we can brush aside all the usual disagreements about Meat consumption, Bhang use, Alcohol consumption, Bachittar Natak, Charitropakiyan, Raagmala, Larrivar, Dera's and focus on the things that can unite us which are destroying the Sikh Panth in the form of a silent Genocide such as female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, drugs, illiteracy and poverty.

The simple definition for a Sikh should be what it always was in puratan times - namely anybody who bows down before Guru Sahib. That way we stop referring to the tens of millions of sincere Gurdwara Sangat as non-Sikhs and accept them as fellow sehajdhari brothers and sisters within a stronger, larger and more inclusive Sikh Panth better able to help the weak.

Once we get initial Unity on a simple basic point like that with all samparda's and jathebandi's uniting to jointly tackle the social problems afflicting the Sikh Panth by working shoulder to shoulder with pyaar, then after the 2021 Punjab census (where we are currently heading to be a minority by 2021) can a revised attempt be made for an updated Amritdhari Maryada.

It's vital that we recognise that there are good Sikhs from across the whole spectrum who might have a different Maryada and slightly different beliefs to us. But what should matter to us is their actions on behalf of the Panth. We need to recognise that all the main samparda's and jathebandi's are infiltrated by anti-Sikh elements in kesdhari roop keen to sow the seeds of dischord. As respectful discussion is good for the Panth but animosity and hatred will destroy us. As the reality boils down to the fact that when the Pakistani Genocide of 1947 occurred and when Congress Genocide of 1984 were perpetrated none of the killers of innocent Sikhs cared about which jathebandi, biraderi or samparda a Sikh had affiliation for.

All that mattered is that the innocents were Sikh and hence had to be killed. 

As our enemies fear everything that Sikhi stands for. United we stand and divided we fall.

 

Edited July 22, 2015 by mrsingh

[paapiman]

 

Damdami Taksal are well known and historically documented for having refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs prior to the 1930's.

 

 

Please provide evidence. There used to be separate amrit sanchar for Majhbee Sikhs, but I don't think they rejected people because of their caste.

Bhul chuk maaf

Damdami Taksal have a different Rahiraas to the majority of the Panth. Why should the Panth accept their Rahiraas?

 

Even Nanaksar and Nihang Dals have a different Sri Rehraas Sahib jee.  

Bhul chuk maaf

Paapi presumably like Dhumma you fully agree with Damdami Taksal's support for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections.

DDT has other branches too. There is one in Amritsar under Baba Makhan Singh jee, another at Bhindran under Baba Mohan Singh jee.

Bhul chuk maaf

 

It's fine if you want to worship Vishnu and Ram Chander but why can't you see that others do not wish to do so.

Who said, we should worship devtay? Do you know, there is a difference in praising/respecting someone and worshiping him?

Bhul chuk maaf

 

 

(English translation): Dohra

The story of Ram will remain known through Ages and all shall ever narrate it.

Raghubar (Ram) went to heavens and took his entire city with him.

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Ram):

- That does not mean, we should worship Lord Raam. Maharaaj is stating a fact. His story is still known today, in Kaljug too.

Dohra Those who will listen to or sing this (Ram’s) story;

sufferings and sins will not come near him.

This will be the fruit (profit) of the meditation upon the name of Vishnu.

No disease or illness will be able to touch him. 1

(So, Damdami Taksal worships Vishnu also):

 

- Do you know that Lord Vishnu has taken a boon from Almighty God, that his bhagtee should be equal to bhagtee of God?

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited July 23, 2015 by paapiman

[namdhari55]

Damdami Taksal are well known and historically documented for having refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs prior to the 1930's.

 

 

what is the source for this?

This doesnt make since because Baba Deep Singh Ji is a Mazhabi and he is the first jathedhar of the Taksal

[paapiman]

what is the source for this?

This doesnt make since because Baba Deep Singh Ji is a Mazhabi and he is the first jathedhar of the Taksal

Bro, Baba Deep Singh jee was of Jatt background. 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[Guest]

From time of Sant Baba Kartar Singh Ji Bhindranwale in 1960's Damdami Taksal did start to allow chooreh to shak Amrit in separate Amrit sanchar so that prove Damdami Taksal Maryada is correct now

[Guest]

The Bindranwala's have their origin in Giani Sunder Singh (1883-1930) of Bhinder Kalan village (in Firozpur district).

Sunder Singh was known as ‘Sri Maan 108 Giani Sunder Singh Nirmala’; he was a student of Pandit Jawala Das Udasi;[1]

Giani Sunder Singh’s mission was a combination of Udasi and Nirmala activities and they used the weapon of khanday-di-pahul and series of akhand path to attract crowds of people; and achieve success. Notably Mazhabi Sikhs were refused initiation.

Giani Sunder Singh was succeeded by Giani Gurbachan Singh (1902-1961); now the jatha (which had come to be known as ‘Jatha Bhindran’ because Giani Sunder Singh belonged to Bhinder Kalan village) was divided into two factions: one headed by Giani Kartar Singh and the other by Giani Mohan Singh;[2] Giani Kartar Singh (1932-1977) died in 1977.

In 1961 the name Damdami Taksal began to gain prominence at Giani Zail Singh's insistence compared to the original name of Jatha Bhindran. Because Guru Gobind Singh Ji set up the taksal (educational seminary) at Talwandi Sabo (Takht Sri Damdama Sahib) which was headed by Shaheed Baba Deep Singh, the false claim was made by Jatha Bhindran operating near Chowk Mehta that Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Baba Deep Singh Ji had founded their group despite Jatha Bhindran only appearing in the 20th century and Damdami Taksal having no link whatsoever to Takht Sri Damdama Sahib.

[paapiman]

 

Giani Sunder Singh’s mission was a combination of Udasi and Nirmala activities and they used the weapon of khanday-di-pahul and series of akhand path to attract crowds of people; and achieve success. Notably Mazhabi Sikhs were refused initiation.

 

Please provide evidence.

Bhul chuk maaf

[chatanga1]

Paapi presumably like Dhumma you fully agree with Damdami Taksal's support for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections.

  Only Damdami Taksal and Santa Sinh's Buddha Dal supported Indira Gandhi.

No like on this post from A-satkirn, she probably busy cooking up some lies.

Can you please provide some proof that DT supported congress/indira in these elections?

 

[chatanga1]

Oh you mean don't do like Damdami Taksal does?

That makes you a bit of a hypocrite! 

 

We are not their spokesmen on here and nor do we answer for them. However you answer for the lies you write by trying to deflect the attention to the DT.

and calling others hypocrits when you're a shameless liar?

[chatanga1]

Then comes DDT's unforgivable support of Indira Gandhi + Congress in the 1980 elections. A decision hated by most of the Panth.

As our enemies fear everything that Sikhi stands for. United we stand and divided we fall.

you are the same poster from Sikh sangat uklondon something. Unless you are copying his words.

on the one hand you talk about us falling when divided but yet on the other hand are peddling lies to help us fall.

The majority of the Panth hated DT support of gandhi/congress? Doesn't history show us something else?

Again I ask that you prove that the DT helped congress/gandhi into power.

 

 

 

 

[mrsingh]

Can you please provide some proof that Damdami Taksal supported congress/indira in these 1980 elections?

 

With all due respect Chatanga Paji i'm staggered that you are not aware of this historical reality and fact.

I'm quite sure this fact is alluded to in the majority of books alluding to 1984 even Tully to Kepley Mahmood to Suri et al.

I am not as big a scholar as DalSingh101, SikhKhoj or Amardeep Ji but no doubt they can furnish you with references.

Even aside from bilbliographical references, I can only assume that you were not born by the time of June 1984?

I was. Tony Proactive was as well and he can no doubt confirm this undeniable historical and political fact.

As the whole basis for Akali Dal and Damdami Taksal antagonism in 1980 was rooted in the fact that Damdami Taksal openly campaigned for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections. Given that Indira Gandhi was out of power in the years between 1977-1980 it was an unfortunate hammer blow for our Panth that she was re-elected as Prime Minister in 1980 with Damdami Taksal support in that year, resulting in the subsequent 35years of Genocide and suffering the Panth has had to endure as a consequence of Indira Gandhi maniacal desire for power.

 

 

you are the same poster from Sikh sangat uklondon something. Unless you are copying his words.

Mr = UKLondonSikh was the handle :-) I remember I got banned last time any debate of consequence between myself and your good self got to conclusion, so if we have any unfinished business you wish to discuss feel free to express it openly here :-)

on the one hand you talk about us falling when divided but yet on the other hand are peddling lies to help us fall.

Mr = No Paji, pointing out historic truth which are at the root of our Panth's suffering for the last 35 years cannot be dismissed as lies in your mind just because you are a supporter of Sant Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma's Damdami Taksal.

The majority of the Panth hated DT support of gandhi/congress?

Mr = Yes a majority of Sikhs supported Akali Dal in the 1980 elections. Damdami Taksal however openly backed Indira Gandhi and Congress (no matter how inconvenient this historic truth may be to those like Sant Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma DDT nowadays)

Doesn't history show us something else?

Mr = Not in relation to Damdami Taksal support for Indira Gandhi and Congress in 1980, no. Presumably you are also aware, that Israel initially backed Hamas in its early stages? It is absolute open knowledge that Zail and those like Rahgunandan Lal Bhatia did everything they could to defeat Akali Dal politically in the 1980 election by aggressively enlisting the support of Sikhs but in the end only Damdami Taksal and Santa Budha Dal backing Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 general elections.

Mr = If you don't see Sikh support for Indira Gandhi and Congress in 1980 as a massive historic mistake hurting the Panth then it goes some way to explaining why you support Sant Baba Harnam Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale (Dhumma) Damdami Taksal today.

 

Edited July 26, 2015 by mrsingh

[hsingh8963]

Ahhh so it's you SinghSabha1699

 

I had a feeling

[mrsingh]

Haha thanks brother Harjot.

Glad you definitely know now that there was no personal animosity during the discussion :-)

Hope you are well and family are in Chardi Kala :-)

 

 

Edited July 27, 2015 by mrsingh