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What is the "Void" that author is referring to here ?

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Void is pure emptiness pure awareness of awareness its infinite ocean of awareness being thats all, there is nothing beyond it. Void is bit unfortunate term pure empitness or nirgun would be right term. However, realization of nirgun only is not full realization. I am not sure if author has had full realization but according to advaita absolute and gurmat advait sidhant full realization is nirgun and also sargun, its full ekta of sargun and nirgun realization -sargun nirgun nirankar (under pinning both)- Ikongkar - One universal awareness expressing itself in form ...also in other traditions - emptiness is form, form is emptiness, always being always becoming- pure stillness in its movement

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Void is pure emptiness pure awareness of awareness its infinite ocean of awareness being thats all, there is nothing beyond it.

No, "Void" is NOT pure emptiness/awareness of awareness. And the real thing is beyond this Void. In-fact, this so-called Void is the last attempt of the Mind to deceive the progressing Soul. Many Saints have spoken about this area, which is very dangerous because nothing is going to help there, except the Guru. If one stuck in that region, then there won't be any further births but still stuck in the region.

This is the area where the real Mind resides, this area is beyond the 3 qualities.......in other words, this is the area where Kaal resides (hidden away from all his creation - Kaal's creation); this area was given to Kaal by the God.

Moreover, please do NOT start debating that this is Radhaswami thinking. I mentioned that because these things are discussed by many Saints/Brahmgyani but not much published information, is available; whereas the starters (not that they wanted to start) of Radhaswami path have published and discussed these concepts widely; so it's easier to locate the information. In-fact, its only the Radhaswamis that have explained the Anurag Sagar (by Bhagat Kabir) in great detail. Today's Radhaswamis are entirely different (just like the mainstream Sikhs).

At last if I'm not wrong, then Sant Waryam Singh Jis books would have this information available.

Edited by das

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I am providing void interpretation based on zen traditions which is pure emptiness pure awareness of awareness (knowledge of knowledge its not blank as someone there to witness void) again void its unfortunate term.

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I think Void is the correct term if we are referring to Shunya (Sanskrit word). And yes, it is the knowledge of knowledge and pure awareness of awareness.......but NOT the knowledge itself.

Bottom line is neither me nor you have attained that state, so we're just putting what we learnt (understood at our current stage) from various sources.

and also the first article stated this thread is NOT talking about real "Void" because no Mantra could reach that region; that area "Shunya" is devoid of sound also.....that's the reason it is called Shunya/Void. Only the Soul who has gone beyond that area could help there, no matter what. I remember reading something along these lines in one of the books of Sant Waryam Singh Ji.

Edited by das

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Its bhramgyan-knowledge experiential partakh gyan itself-  thats atam updesh resonated with me from sant jagjit singh harkhowale katha. Awareness of awareness and knowledge of knowledge are two side same coin, pure awareness is substratum -underlining reality of any experience. It can be expereinced in deep meditation, experience is one thing but realization- permanent spontaneous -sehaj samadhi abidance in it is another thing its matter of grace. Maharaj kirpan bakshan.

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I agree he is probably referring to the state of Sunn Smaadh. Sant Waryam Singh / Sant Isher Singh ji also refer to similar voids that need to be crossed. I will try and dig out the relevant passages.

This diagram is my attempt in trying to understand the path as described by Bhai Sewa Singh Ji Tharmala via Gurbani and how the mind has to cross these stages. (It still might be wrong but it what I understand at the present time). From the stages of Sunn "Naam/Shabad" pulls you out carries you across.

Journey_of_the_Mind_-_Sewa_Singh_Tharmal

  1. Mind is stuck in thoughts of TreGun Maya (Rajo Gun, Tamo Gun and Sato Gun)
  2. Tregun/Thoughts/1st Bhavsagar is crossed with the aid of the Gur-shabad/Gur-mantar
  3. When trying to exit the Tregun maya one will have to cross the 5 elements (Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Space). 5th, Space is also known as the beginning of Sunn.
  4. One eventually enters Nij Sunn where one has to wait.
  5. Eventually a loud Shabad/Blast manifests. If one can latch onto this blast with their surti then they are carried across into Anhad Sunn (realm of panj shabad). The Sunn stage is a difficult to cross as one call fall back into dreams or hallucinations (2nd BhavSagar).
  6. From Anhad Sunn the sounds eventually merge to form a single tone called Naam/Naad.
  7. With pure clean surti/consciousness attached to this Naam/Naad one eventually merges with Waheguru

 

 

Edited by Sat1176

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Atam updesh which was resonated with me from sant jagjit singh harkhowale katha of abhed upasana- nirgun upasana where seeker considers itself as atma with full unity with paratma - one considers itself as aseem gyan (eternal ocean of divine knowledge(without an thought)- pure awareness) where its each surat-consciousness arises from ocean as wave and subsides back in the ocean to the point there is no distinction. This is from non duality-advait perspective. I believe this framework of naam is just as valid. Its complex topic better to find out experientially. 

 

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On 22/7/2015 at 3:07 AM, das said:

No, "Void" is NOT pure emptiness/awareness of awareness. And the real thing is beyond this Void. In-fact, this so-called Void is the last attempt of the Mind to deceive the progressing Soul. Many Saints have spoken about this area, which is very dangerous because nothing is going to help there, except the Guru. If one stuck in that region, then there won't be any further births but still stuck in the region.

This is the area where the real Mind resides, this area is beyond the 3 qualities.......in other words, this is the area where Kaal resides (hidden away from all his creation - Kaal's creation); this area was given to Kaal by the God.

Moreover, please do NOT start debating that this is Radhaswami thinking. I mentioned that because these things are discussed by many Saints/Brahmgyani but not much published information, is available; whereas the starters (not that they wanted to start) of Radhaswami path have published and discussed these concepts widely; so it's easier to locate the information. In-fact, its only the Radhaswamis that have explained the Anurag Sagar (by Bhagat Kabir) in great detail. Today's Radhaswamis are entirely different (just like the mainstream Sikhs).

At last if I'm not wrong, then Sant Waryam Singh Jis books would have this information available.

Absolutely Agree , this is the region of mahashoonya, Or hahoot in sufism.

This region is Described by saints as nothing,empty, Go in any direction and its still nothingness.

Above This region , there is Bhuvar gupha(The region of sohum jaap) and after that starts the region Of Satpurush,Sachkhand. 

Only a Param Sant satguru's grace/guidance can take you above this realm.

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Usually Void or Sunn, in spirituality,  is referred to the  cosmic  space between 2 levels, 2 realms, 2 khands, ..... 

The Void between the region of Brahm(not the Brahmlok or place of residence of god Brahma of the hindu trinity) , and Satlok/Sach Khand, is so much filled with utter darkness, that it is impossible to cross without the  Jot, the Light of Shabad Guru.

And to give us an idea of that utter darkness in that Void space, Satguru Guru Angad Dev Maharaj describes it to us in His following Sat Bachans:

ਜੇ ਸਉ ਚੰਦਾ ਉਗਵਹਿ ਸੂਰਜ ਚੜਹਿ ਹਜਾਰ ॥

Jae So Chandhaa Ougavehi   Sooraj Charrehi Hajaar ||

If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared,


ਏਤੇ ਚਾਨਣ ਹੋਦਿਆਂ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰ ਅੰਧਾਰ ॥੨॥

Eaethae Chaanan Hodhiaaan Gur Bin Ghor Andhhaar ||2||

Even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2|

Here, He is saying that there is already a spiritual darkness (agyanta) without a Guru, but also, He refers to the utter darkness before reaching His Darbar.

He says, even with the light of 100 moons and 1000 suns all together, without a Guru (Shabad Guru), then too there would be utter darkness to even think of going through it all alone by itself.

It would be as good as an attempt of suiciding.

 

That is why Sree Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj clearly tells us in the Bani (Ang 864 - 3) :

ਮਤ ਕੋ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥

Math Ko Bharam Bhulai Sansaar ||

Let no one wander in doubt in the world.

 

ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Gur Bin Koe N Outharas Paar ||1|| Rehaao ||

Without the Guru, no one can cross over. ||1||Pause||

For the Guru alone, the Shabad Guru, has the Light of Waheguru Akal Purukh Himself, to pierce that horrible darkness and more,  to reach safe back in the lap of Waheguru Akal Purukh.

That Shabad Guru or Nam, is also the one to which the Bani refers when it says:

Nanak, Nam jahaaz hae, jinee chareeya se utareeya paar.

That Shabad Guru is Nam, in whose company/ or by boarding onto it, one crosses the Maha Bhavsagar and reach our Nijh Ghar, not otherwise. 

For that very reason, the Bani in almost each Ang, stresses  upon Nam bhakti alone.

 

As we know, on this respect it also says :

Awar kaaj tere kitay na kaam, mil Sadh Sangat bhaj kewal Nam.

Nothing is of your avail where salvation is concerned, so join the sangat of a Sadh, and do or practice Nam bhakti alone

Gurbani is perfectly clear and transparent, that it leaves no doubts as per what we ought to do, if we want to merge in Him only, otherwise we are free to wander in the chaurasee ka chakar

 

Stay blessed.

SSA.

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