Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ragmaala

Charitropakhyan or Erotica ? viewer discretion advised.

Recommended Posts

Ragmaala Ji, I think the point he was trying to make is that if these were in fact supposed to be moral stories, then the moral message could have easily been conveyed without the explicit sexual details.  The stories could have been written much more G Rated, while still conveying the moral message.  And perhaps it would have reached more people that way since one wouldn't be embarrassed to read more G rated version of the stories in front of their daughters etc.  

My problem isn't even with the fact that they are sexually explicit... my issue is the fact that the finger seems to be pointed squarely at women for the majority of immoral acts, or at least that's how it comes across. Maybe it's because I could never find myself ever stooping so low as to desecrate my body (an act that can never be taken back) just to influence someone etc. - I truly do not believe that the majority of immorality rests on the fault of women... yes there are some stories that  show men in a bad light as well, however since the majority of stories depict women in this light, it certainly suggests that women share the majority of the immorality in the world.. at least that's how charitropakhyan comes across.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ragmala

I will only say that Guru ji knows something that both me and you dont understand yet.  :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guru Sahib wanted the Khalsa to be strong that we could even watch a porno movie without being erected

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

If that's what he wanted, there are other ways to go about it.  For example Ragmaala posted above, constant exposure to the human body in a nonsexualized way, mutes those feelings. Exposure in a way that it actually evokes sexual thoughts I don't think will ever achieve that objective! Even if there are negative cinsequences... otherwise why do people even today still get themselves in trouble over a quick roll in the hay??  Everyone knows there can be consequences... teens for example know they can get pregnant, or get someone pegnant, forcing them to drop out of school etc. but they still do it anyway! Do you really think reading about those possible consequences will stop their urges?? LOL. 

Also, if it was designed as a manual to warn men how they can be duped by women using sex, it is also as much a manual for those type of women to learn HOW to successfully do the duping!!! And what of the men who are the ones doing the immorality and duping, and the women who are gullible??

And anyway, it doesn't mean all women are like that, and it doesn't mean all men are gullible. And a man can be respectful and trustful of women, while not also suspecting them of being immoral and a deceiver.  We all know virtuous women and we all know there are prostitutes who stand on the street corners.  We all know virtuous men who are faithful to their wives, and we all know men who actually go looking for prostitutes and would cheat. We all know men who do the deceiving and immoral acts. Charitropakhyan does not accurately portray the real life.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks Ragmala, you are absolutely correct in this approach,  the eternal truth can only be verified by those who are beyond intellect-based scholarly evidential approach and are merged in The ONLY ONE, as you referred to Hazur Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj. we have to accept that any large of amount of intellect we may have, we still operate within the realm of Kalyug will interpret things within that realm only, once we accept our reality that inner calm will start to come in as most doubts, questions, etc will wither away.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

and what if those beyond intellect-based, when they receive this inner calm, the answers they receive at that point, point the direction away from dasam granth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly think that most of the stories are about women for the following reasons:

1. Women tend to be a bit more perceptive about this kind of stuff than (most) men, as women are often more perceptive about many other subtle inter-personal feelings as well. So basically, men needed more help.

2. Most leaders and rulers, then and now, are men. If an enemy cannot defeat a leader militarily, economically, or politically, then they will often use the honeypot (sex) to trap and defame him. A leader without moral authority is rarely a leader for long.

Have you reached this state? How can you speak for them? You are basically steering people and dictating what they are to believe even if their own experience surpasses it. 

All sants and sampradas universally accept the entirety of Dasam Granth Sahib, including Charitropakhyan. I have never found any deviation from any such person despite searching for one for a few years. 

Edited by Xylitol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

All sants and sampradas universally accept the entirety of Dasam Granth Sahib, including Charitropakhyan. I have never found any deviation from any such person despite searching for one for a few years. 

Try looking outside of the small percentage of the Panth that are jathas, or sects and you will find many who are skeptical... for very good reasons.

Also, if DG is supposed to be a Universal Granth for ALL Sikhs, then why would such a large section be devoted to a message intended only for male leaders / kings? Why would that stuff not have been kept separate and specified who the intended audience were?  If on the other hand it was intended for everyone, all sikhs, then how do you explain the moral story that a Singhni is supposed to take from sexually explicit tales of women deceiving men with sex?  If DG was meant for all Sikhs, then Singhnis should also be warned about sexually deviant males.... 

And the moral points could easily have been said without using sexually explicit descriptions... if the intention was to impart moral messages, then there was not the need to use language so descriptive that for the vast majority of men, they would likely read it and be aroused...

But then you will use the common argument that one must be very highly spiritual advanced to understand it and not be affected by lust... but that makes no sense, because
1) someone that highly spiritually advanced would likely not need such a moral message as they would have surpassed kaam already, and
2) if one needs to be highly advanced spiritually to even understand it, then obviously DG was not meant to be read by the vast majority of Sikhs and hence, it could not have been a universal message for all Sikhs
3) Even more to the point, suggesting that it was only meant for (male) Kings and Leaders... 

So from your own description, how can DG be for ALL Sikhs?  And if it's not for ALL Sikhs, then how can it be revered as equal to SGGSJ, which IS UNIVERSAL message for ALL Sikhs??  See the contradiction here?  And it's these contradictions which cause many to look at Charitropakhyan with skepticism... because Gurbani is supposed to be universal with a message for ALL Sikhs.  


Nobody is disputing authentic banis (Jaap Sahib, Tav Prasad Savaiye etc) from Guru Gobind Singh Ji which are contained in DG at all... and that too even though he chose to keep them separate from SGGSJ.  

 

 

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly think that most of the stories are about women for the following reasons:

1. Women tend to be a bit more perceptive about this kind of stuff than (most) men, as women are often more perceptive about many other subtle inter-personal feelings as well. So basically, men needed more help.

2. Most leaders and rulers, then and now, are men. If an enemy cannot defeat a leader militarily, economically, or politically, then they will often use the honeypot (sex) to trap and defame him. A leader without moral authority is rarely a leader for long.

BINGO!

Edit: Just remembered Bill Burr did a bit about Charitropakhyan in his routine.


https://youtu.be/rdvSwStGErs
 

Edit 2: Why don't videos show up as videos anymore but links instead?

Edited by BhagatSingh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try looking outside of the small percentage of the Panth that are jathas, or sects and you will find many who are skeptical... for very good reasons.

 

Actually, an incredible number of Sikhs do sangat with sants, especially in India. I'm not sure if it is the majority, but it might be. 

Maharaj's updesh, through Gurbani and through granths commissioned by him encompasses all areas of life. Maharaj had an immense project ongoing in his court wherein scholars were busy translating ancient granths into common languages. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, an incredible number of Sikhs do sangat with sants, especially in India. I'm not sure if it is the majority, but it might be. 

Maharaj's updesh, through Gurbani and through granths commissioned by him encompasses all areas of life. Maharaj had an immense project ongoing in his court wherein scholars were busy translating ancient granths into common languages. 

And a lot of these texts they were working on were lost during the escape from Anandpur - through Sirsa River. That night Sirsa was especially angry and chaotic and it gobbled up about Sava Mann of writings.

So we don't know the full extent of the things they were working on. Imo we don't have the full Charitropkhayan with us. We don't know the full picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest sikharchives

Admin note: We no longer will accept anti dasam granth post under gupt anonymous ids, please create a proper id register with us and you can post. I have saved the original post as back up, when you fully register with us and we can send you back up via pm to post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That night was a very dreadful night, Guru Ji took it upon Himself to make our lives better. Where will we find such a Guru ?

Alas, so much literature was lost, and so much might have been left behind, but that is true detachment even to scholarly work.

I wonder if we weren't just ready to receive that knowledge, so sirsa river did the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I was at a nihang taksal and they give santheya of Sri charitarpkhyian to bibi's as well. So Satkiran please don't think that only males read it. There are many instances as well that male treachery are accounted for in Sri charitarpkhyian. The name of Sri charitarpkhyian actually means the wiles of humans. 

That's actually true, i m not sure why there is so much misinformation regarding charitropakhyan composition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that everyone is talking about Charitars can you guys give your opinions about Charitars 21, 22 and 23. Pyara Padam says its about Guru Gobind Singh (the King) while others disagree. Pro Dasam Granthis are so divided on basic issues. Is the King in the tale Guru Gobind Singh or not? Give proofs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's actually true, i m not sure why there is so much misinformation regarding charitropakhyan composition.

The reason why there is so much misinformation is that people like Satkiran and mrsingh keep only bringing up the woman stuff up. Then everybody has the thinking that it's only about women etc.

 

Another reason there is a lot of misinformation is that our kathakars are not studied in these type of Banis. In puratan sampradas these type of Banis are studied for years but those days are gone. Now any joe can become a kathakar after studying for a few years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason why there is so much misinformation is that people like Satkiran and mrsingh keep only bringing up the woman stuff up. Then everybody has the thinking that it's only about women etc.

You are too kind in referring to them as people.

 

 

Another reason there is a lot of misinformation is that our kathakars are not studied in these type of Banis. In puratan sampradas these type of Banis are studied for years but those days are gone. Now any joe can become a kathakar after studying for a few years.

The puratan samprdais can explain Gurbani, or canonized texts better than any of these overnight professors like dhunda/jeeonwala etc.

 

Gurbani also warns us that those who take blind Gurus(teachers) will be blind too.

Edited by chatanga1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...