Charitropakhyan or Erotica ? viewer discretion advised.

[Singh123456777]

Does anyone remember the story where Bhagat Kabir Ji asked Mata Loi to explain what a woman's charitar mean ? Mata Ji said she would explain in due time.

Then Mata Loi Ji played a charitar. The story goes... two devotess came to visit Bhagat Ji. Bhagat Ji was not at home. There was a stick & a rope lying down. Devotees asked what were those for. Mata Ji said Bhagat ji ties his devotees with rope & beats them up. Devotees were scared & walked away. Bhagat Ji came home, and inquired about the rope & stick. Mata Ji said those two devotees left it. Bhagat ji took the rope & stick and went after devotees. Devotees saw Bhagat ji after them,  they thought Bhagat ji was going to beat them up, they started running away even faster and eventually ran away. Bhagat Ji returned and asked Mata ji , what was all that.

Mata Ji replied that was a minor charitari, not even a charitar. thus giving a hint into the more dangerous charitars that can be played. Bhagat Ji said ram ram, I am satisfied with your answer.

this story if awesomely funny lol

[SikhKhoj]

I am beginning my rebuttal to the Charitropakhyan being authored by Guru Gobind Singh from a historical perspective. Anyone with historical proofs (1695-1825 AD) saying (1) Guru Gobind Singh wrote Charitropakhyan (2) used the pen names Kab Shyam and Kab Raam is invited to the topic.

[mrsingh]

Now that everyone is talking about Charitars can you guys give your opinions about Charitars 21, 22 and 23. Pyara Padam says its about Guru Gobind Singh (the King) while others disagree. Pro D.Granthis are so divided on basic issues. Is the King in the tale Guru Gobind Singh or not? Give proofs.

It seems incredible to me SikhKhoj Paji that these people keep a straight face claiming to be Sikhs whilst asserting that Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was the King of Anandpur mentioned in those charitars 21,22 and 23. I would like to see even a single person on this site defend Padam's point but I am pretty confident nobody will have the himmat to denigrate Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj openly. 

[paapiman]

It seems incredible to me SikhKhoj Paji that these people keep a straight face claiming to be Sikhs whilst asserting that Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was the King of Anandpur mentioned in those charitars 21,22 and 23. I would like to see even a single person on this site defend Padam's point but I am pretty confident nobody will have the himmat to denigrate Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj openly. 

Bro, have you read those charitars?

Bhul chuk maaf

[mrsingh]

Paapi Ji, this is what Piara S. Padam alleges:

and debunked by Gurpreet Singh Sumra

 

Anoop Kaur, Girlfriend of Guru Gobind Singh

(as per Piara Singh Padam)?

- Gurpreet Singh Sumra

Piara Singh Padam

a well known writer who has written many books. In one of his books titled “Dasam Granth Darshan”, Padam has crossed all the limits by saying that some of the sexcapades in erotica known as Charitropakhyan from Sexy Granth also known as Dasam Granth are actual stories, that occurred with Guru Gobind Singh himself.

The stories according to Padam that happened with Guru Gobind Singh ji are eroticas/charitars 16,21,22 and 23 from eroticpakhyan/charitropakhyan.

We will talk about the story of Anoop Kaur, which is in erotica 21, but briefly touch the other erotica/charitar which Padam has attributed to Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Erotica/Charitar 16:
Dohara “teer satudarv ke huto rehat raye sukh paye
Darab het tih thaur hi ramjani ik aayi...”)

Story in brief: Note: king/raja as per Padam is Guru Gobind Singh

A king used to live happily by the bank of satluj river, where a prostitute came to live. She was very beautiful, she got attracted towards Raja, but the Raja didn’t give a damn about her. Then she made the appearance of jogi(hermit) and went into the court of Raja. Raja saw that jogi and thought that he should learn some “jantar mantar “ from that jogi.

So secret arrangements were made and at midnight Raja went there to learn Jantar Mantar. Jogi told Raja to bring Rice,flowers and GOOD ALCOHOL/SHARAB. Then Jogi told King that I will show you magic/chamatkar, I will change gender, as male I will teach you Jantar Mantar and as female I will have sexual intercourse with you.

King said one who teaches Mantar is like Father and Mother, how can I have Sexual Intercourse with you?

Then jogi said that I made this appearance to meet you, now have sex with me, come and lie down on my bed.

If you will try to run then I will make noise and will get you caught as thief and if you will not have SEX with me then I will hurl abuses at you.

Then she pleads with King to have Sex with her, King then tells her that I came to learn Mantar, I will not have sex with you. She tried all the means but could not convince the King to have sexual intercourse with her.

Then she went out and started shouting chor-chor/thief, listening to it people came there. Then she told(people) them that I was just shouting as I had a bad dream. When people left, she told King, that have Sex with me or I will get you caught.

Then king thought that I am in a tight position, if I will have intercourse with her, and if a son is born he will become a pimp and if daughter is born she will become a prostitute.

So King told her to bring “post,bhang,afim,sharab” marijuana,opium,alcohol

Dohara "post,bhang,afeem bahu gehari bhang ghutaai Turat taran layawat bhai mad sat waar chuaai"

Alcohol was obtained after seven rounds of sex. Then after consuming these intoxicants she passed out, then King gave her 60 mohars and ran away.

Erotica/Charitar 21,22,23:
There was a rich lady Anoop kaur, in Anandpur. She was attracted towards Guru Gobind Singh, so she called Magan Das ,Guru Saabs Servant and sent a message that if Guru Gobind Singh ji wants to learn Bhagauti Mantar, then Guru Saab should go and meet her at night.

When Guru Gobind Singh reached there She said she wants to have sexual intercourse with Guru Gobind Singh ji, when Guru Saab refused then she said that you should then pass through(under) my legs. Guru Gobind Singh ji said ,that person will pass through your legs who is impotent and can’t perform sexually:

"Noop kaur yo kahi bhog mau so piye kariye...
aaj humare saath mitar ruchi so rat kariye
ho natar chhado tang tare abb hoye nikariye...
Tang tare so jaayi kel ke jahe na aawe
Baith nipunsak rahe rain sigar na bajawe..."

(charitar 21,part 27-29)

Then when she could not convince Guru Gobind Singh ji, she started shouting chor-chor/thief, Guru Saab started running but was chased and surrounded by other people. Then Guru Gobind Singh ji slapped her brother and took off her brothers turban and told people that this is the thief. Guru Gobind Singh left his shoe there.

Then in the morning Guru Gobind Singhji summoned Anoop Kaur to his court, and told her that what you did was not right---, and at the end Guru Gobind Singh ji asked her for forgiveness and fixed a pension of 20,000 rupees half yearly for Anoop Kaur:

"chhima karo ab triya tume bahur naa kariye raandh
Bees sahansa taka tise dayi chhimai baandh"

(charitar 23,last part) )

Now the point to think is that if this happened with Guru Gobind Singh ji:

1. It means Guru Gobind Singh ji used to tell Sikhs to read and follow Gurbani and himself used to learn Jantar Mantars.

2. Why would Guru Saab learn bhagauti mantar and why would they ask for forgiveness?

3. Great and fearless personality,Guru Gobind Singh, who challenged the tyrant rulers was so afraid of some woman that she started saying chor-chor, and Guru Gobind Singh started running leaving behind his shoes and blanket?

4. Can a woman threaten Guru Gobind Singh, and say that I will get you caught by saying that you are thief?

5. Why did Guru Gobind Singh fixed a pension of 20000?, a large amount even today,not to mention that time.

6. Guru Gobind Singh used to make people consume bhang/marijuana,afeem/opium,sharaab/alcohol?

This is clearly the writing of some drug and sex addict. Whenever the writer or poet feels urge to have some intoxicants he then starts mentioning them. It is also clear from this Erotica and Sexy Granth/Dasam Granth that the poet used to ENJOY sexual intercourse after consuming intoxicants like bhang, afeem, dode, sharab.

Shame on such Sikhs who say that this is the real story of Guru Gobind Singh ji. Wake up Sikhs! It is high time such writers and writings should be condemned. Such book should not even be there in libraries of Gurdwaras rather they should be burnt and banned from further publications.

Sant Samaj,Dere wale babe, Taksali support this Granth at the behest of Hindutva Agencies, because they don’t want Sikhs to read bani in Guru Granth Sahib. They want them to get attached to these sexy stories and want to divide them.

This is the only purpose of the Govt. funded agency called Sant Samaj, to divide Sikhs and declare them as Hindus.

Former Sewadar (Jathedar) of Akal Takht Puran Singh openly declared that Sikhs are offsprings of Luv and Kush.

This Sexy Granth also declares that Guru Nanak is from the family/khandaan of Luv and Guru Gobind Singh from the family of Kush?? Message is clear, Sant Samaj ,Govt. funded agency, wants to declare Sikhs as Hindus.I will write in other article about this Luv Kush story.

It is the duty of every Sikh to challenge who so ever says that this Sexy Granth is the pen man ship of Guru Gobind Singh.

http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/Articles/9

 

Edited July 30, 2015 by mrsingh

[Singh123456777]

If you actually really read Sri dasam Granth it's such a Hindu Pakhand destroyer that a rss person would have a heart attack by reading it. Guru Ji questions a lot of Hindu Pakhand in Sri dasam Granth. Your sources are bullshit mrsingh.

[SikhKhoj]

Singh1234..., what is the identity of the King in Charitars 21-23? Is it Guru Gobind Singh as claimed by Padam and the likes or not?

[paapiman]

Paapi Ji, this is what Piara S. Padam alleges:

and debunked by Gurpreet Singh Sumra

 

Anoop Kaur, Girlfriend of Guru Gobind Singh

(as per Piara Singh Padam)?

- Gurpreet Singh Sumra

Piara Singh Padam

a well known writer who has written many books. In one of his books titled “Dasam Granth Darshan”, Padam has crossed all the limits by saying that some of the sexcapades in erotica known as Charitropakhyan from Sexy Granth also known as Dasam Granth are actual stories, that occurred with Guru Gobind Singh himself.

The stories according to Padam that happened with Guru Gobind Singh ji are eroticas/charitars 16,21,22 and 23 from eroticpakhyan/charitropakhyan.

We will talk about the story of Anoop Kaur, which is in erotica 21, but briefly touch the other erotica/charitar which Padam has attributed to Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Erotica/Charitar 16:
Dohara “teer satudarv ke huto rehat raye sukh paye
Darab het tih thaur hi ramjani ik aayi...”)

Story in brief: Note: king/raja as per Padam is Guru Gobind Singh

A king used to live happily by the bank of satluj river, where a prostitute came to live. She was very beautiful, she got attracted towards Raja, but the Raja didn’t give a damn about her. Then she made the appearance of jogi(hermit) and went into the court of Raja. Raja saw that jogi and thought that he should learn some “jantar mantar “ from that jogi.

So secret arrangements were made and at midnight Raja went there to learn Jantar Mantar. Jogi told Raja to bring Rice,flowers and GOOD ALCOHOL/SHARAB. Then Jogi told King that I will show you magic/chamatkar, I will change gender, as male I will teach you Jantar Mantar and as female I will have sexual intercourse with you.

King said one who teaches Mantar is like Father and Mother, how can I have Sexual Intercourse with you?

Then jogi said that I made this appearance to meet you, now have sex with me, come and lie down on my bed.

If you will try to run then I will make noise and will get you caught as thief and if you will not have SEX with me then I will hurl abuses at you.

Then she pleads with King to have Sex with her, King then tells her that I came to learn Mantar, I will not have sex with you. She tried all the means but could not convince the King to have sexual intercourse with her.

Then she went out and started shouting chor-chor/thief, listening to it people came there. Then she told(people) them that I was just shouting as I had a bad dream. When people left, she told King, that have Sex with me or I will get you caught.

Then king thought that I am in a tight position, if I will have intercourse with her, and if a son is born he will become a pimp and if daughter is born she will become a prostitute.

So King told her to bring “post,bhang,afim,sharab” marijuana,opium,alcohol

Dohara "post,bhang,afeem bahu gehari bhang ghutaai Turat taran layawat bhai mad sat waar chuaai"

Alcohol was obtained after seven rounds of sex. Then after consuming these intoxicants she passed out, then King gave her 60 mohars and ran away.

Erotica/Charitar 21,22,23:
There was a rich lady Anoop kaur, in Anandpur. She was attracted towards Guru Gobind Singh, so she called Magan Das ,Guru Saabs Servant and sent a message that if Guru Gobind Singh ji wants to learn Bhagauti Mantar, then Guru Saab should go and meet her at night.

When Guru Gobind Singh reached there She said she wants to have sexual intercourse with Guru Gobind Singh ji, when Guru Saab refused then she said that you should then pass through(under) my legs. Guru Gobind Singh ji said ,that person will pass through your legs who is impotent and can’t perform sexually:

"Noop kaur yo kahi bhog mau so piye kariye...
aaj humare saath mitar ruchi so rat kariye
ho natar chhado tang tare abb hoye nikariye...
Tang tare so jaayi kel ke jahe na aawe
Baith nipunsak rahe rain sigar na bajawe..."

(charitar 21,part 27-29)

Then when she could not convince Guru Gobind Singh ji, she started shouting chor-chor/thief, Guru Saab started running but was chased and surrounded by other people. Then Guru Gobind Singh ji slapped her brother and took off her brothers turban and told people that this is the thief. Guru Gobind Singh left his shoe there.

Then in the morning Guru Gobind Singhji summoned Anoop Kaur to his court, and told her that what you did was not right---, and at the end Guru Gobind Singh ji asked her for forgiveness and fixed a pension of 20,000 rupees half yearly for Anoop Kaur:

"chhima karo ab triya tume bahur naa kariye raandh
Bees sahansa taka tise dayi chhimai baandh"

(charitar 23,last part) )

Now the point to think is that if this happened with Guru Gobind Singh ji:

1. It means Guru Gobind Singh ji used to tell Sikhs to read and follow Gurbani and himself used to learn Jantar Mantars.

2. Why would Guru Saab learn bhagauti mantar and why would they ask for forgiveness?

3. Great and fearless personality,Guru Gobind Singh, who challenged the tyrant rulers was so afraid of some woman that she started saying chor-chor, and Guru Gobind Singh started running leaving behind his shoes and blanket?

4. Can a woman threaten Guru Gobind Singh, and say that I will get you caught by saying that you are thief?

5. Why did Guru Gobind Singh fixed a pension of 20000?, a large amount even today,not to mention that time.

6. Guru Gobind Singh used to make people consume bhang/marijuana,afeem/opium,sharaab/alcohol?

This is clearly the writing of some drug and sex addict. Whenever the writer or poet feels urge to have some intoxicants he then starts mentioning them. It is also clear from this Erotica and Sexy Granth/Dasam Granth that the poet used to ENJOY sexual intercourse after consuming intoxicants like bhang, afeem, dode, sharab.

Shame on such Sikhs who say that this is the real story of Guru Gobind Singh ji. Wake up Sikhs! It is high time such writers and writings should be condemned. Such book should not even be there in libraries of Gurdwaras rather they should be burnt and banned from further publications.

Sant Samaj,Dere wale babe, Taksali support this Granth at the behest of Hindutva Agencies, because they don’t want Sikhs to read bani in Guru Granth Sahib. They want them to get attached to these sexy stories and want to divide them.

This is the only purpose of the Govt. funded agency called Sant Samaj, to divide Sikhs and declare them as Hindus.

Former Sewadar (Jathedar) of Akal Takht Puran Singh openly declared that Sikhs are offsprings of Luv and Kush.

This Sexy Granth also declares that Guru Nanak is from the family/khandaan of Luv and Guru Gobind Singh from the family of Kush?? Message is clear, Sant Samaj ,Govt. funded agency, wants to declare Sikhs as Hindus.I will write in other article about this Luv Kush story.

It is the duty of every Sikh to challenge who so ever says that this Sexy Granth is the pen man ship of Guru Gobind Singh.

http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/Articles/9

 

Did you read the complete charitars (21, 22 and 23) yourself?

There is so much to learn from them.

Bhul chuk maaf

[mrsingh]

Paapi Ji there is much more to learn from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Sikhs should focus on fully learning the Gurmat lessons in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji first rather than worshipping as an equal to Maharaj the charitars 21,22, 23 that Piara S. Padam falsely alleges relate to Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji's own life!

Paapiman, Raagmala, Singh123, Harjot8963, chatanga1 pls clarify who you consider the King of Anandpur Sahib?

Edited July 31, 2015 by mrsingh

[paapiman]

Paapi Ji there is much more to learn from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Sikhs should focus on fully learning the Gurmat lessons in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji first rather than worshipping as an equal to Maharaj the charitars 21,22, 23 that Piara S. Padam falsely alleges relate to Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji's own life!

Paapiman, Raagmala, Singh123, Harjot8963, chatanga1 pls clarify who you consider the King of Anandpur Sahib?

Daas is not sure, who is the male personality in that charitar, but those charitars teach us great values and morals.

Bhul chuk maaf

[CdnSikhGirl]

Daas is not sure, who is the male personality in that charitar, but those charitars teach us great values and morals.

Bhul chuk maaf

Paapiman, could you please tell us in your own words, what values and morals you learned from it?  

[Singh123456777]

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/51756-part-ii-charitropakhyan-analysis-of-charitars-2-16/?fromsearch=1

[CdnSikhGirl]

Wow this link actually says what I suggested a long time ago, if you remember I actually suggested this, that women in a society where they are oppressed, will find ways to surpass their supression, in whatever means they can.... but you guys all shot it down (including you Singh123456777) suggesting Sikh women back then (and now) were happy to be limited to the house and playing servant to men...and instead went with the idea that the stories were all just warning men about women's negative character as immoral and lustful...
However this paints the picture that the key is equality...

"On one hand, there is a social structure that gladly hands her the sword for the destruction of tyrants, and also gives her equal opportunities to excel and touch the peaks of success in all walks of life. On the other hand however, there is that primitive male-dominated social order which treats her like an object of sexual desire and keeps her confined to the parameters of the house. Such social structure pushes her towards destructive activities. Her extremely sharp intellect and limitless strength is capable of breaching walls of the house; even in that confinement, she has the capacity to destroy the biggest of kings, wealthy and powerful people without using even a single weapon. Therefore, it is up to the male society to decide whether it wants to choose destruction or progression. The path of equality of men and women leads to progression, while inequality will most certainly bring about destruction and chaos. If male society chooses the road of progression and gives her equal opportunities in constructive tasks, evils, oppressions, and immorality will be destroyed. But, if she is sidelined and forced to live under shadow of males, she will keep reminding male society of her limitless force even while treading on the path forced upon her. Male writes at length about her characters, yet he is the one responsible for her destructive form. When male society is aware of the fact that female intellect is capable of transforming any impossibility into plausible situation, then why does it look down on women?"

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/51756-part-ii-charitropakhyan-analysis-of-charitars-2-16/?fromsearch=1

So I guess the lesson is:

1. Don't treat a women like a mere sexual object and she won't act like one
2. Don't oppress women, and supress them from society under men's shadow...because like any group which is oppressed they will fight back how they can.
(with men, it's brute strength, with women it's intellect)
3. The answer is equality - which was already stated in SGGSJ "As Gurmukh look upon ALL with single eye of equality"

Still these messages could have been imparted without explicit details...

Edited July 31, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[SAadmin]

 

So I guess the lesson is:

1. Don't treat a women like a mere sexual object and she won't act like one
2. Don't oppress women, and supress them from society under men's shadow...because like any group which is oppressed they will fight back how they can.
(with men, it's brute strength, with women it's intellect)
3. The answer is equality - which was already stated in SGGSJ "As Gurmukh look upon ALL with single eye of equality"

Still these messages could have been imparted without explicit details...

We should not judge our Guru with our limited preconceived notions, here is another explicit detail for you, this time from akaal ustat in dasam granth and also sri guru granth sahib ji..so are we going to reject the banis just because there is explicit detail- oh my gosh, bloody sky has fallen  what a twisted way of looking at this:

akaal ustat- 

ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕਾਬ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੜਤ ਮਤਿ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਕੋ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਜਾਨ ਲੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं कोक काब हुइ कै पुरान को पड़त मति कतहूं कुरान को निदान जान लेत हो ॥
Somewhere being a poet thou recitest the Pauranic wisdom and somewhere Thou recitest the Pauranic wisdom and somewhere Thou comprehendest the essence of Quran.

-----

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕੀ ਕਹਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं बेद बानी कहूं कोक की कहानी कहूं राजा कहूं रानी कहूं नार के प्रकार हो ॥
Somewhere Thou art the vedic hymns and somewhere the story of the elucidator of the mystery of love; somewhere Thou art Thyself the king, the queen and also various types of woman.

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਨ ਕੇ ਬਜਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਧੇਨ ਕੇ ਚਰਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਲਾਖਨ ਲਵਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं बेन के बजया कहूं धेन के चरया कहूं लाखन लवया कहूं सुंदर कुमार हो ॥
Somewhere Thou art the player of flute, somewhere the grazier of cows and somewhere Thou art the beautiful youth, enticer of lakhs (of lovely maids.)

----

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਿੱਦਿਆ ਕਹੂੰ ਬਿਓਮ ਬਾਨੀ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕੀ ਕਾਬਿ ਕਥੈ ਕਹਾਨੀ ॥
कहूं बेद बि्दिआ कहूं बिओम बानी ॥ कहूं कोक की काबि कथै कहानी ॥
Somewhere Thou art the learning of Vedas and somewhere the voice of heaven. Somewhere Thu art the discourse and story of general poets.

ਕਹੂੰ ਅਦ੍ਰ ਸਾਰੰ ਕਹੂੰ ਭਦ੍ਰ ਰੂਪੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੱਦ੍ਰ ਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਛਿਦ੍ਰ ਸਰੂਪੰ ॥੨੨॥੧੧੨॥
कहूं अद्र सारं कहूं भद्र रूपं ॥ कहूं म्द्र बानी कहूं छिद्र सरूपं ॥२२॥११२॥
Somewhere Thou art iron and somewhere Thou art splendid gold. Somewhere Thou art sweet speech and somewhere Thou art sweet speech and somewhere Thou art critical and fault finding. 22.112.

ਕੋਕ - kama sutra tales, even english translator didn't get the  point of non duality and didn't write the write proper translation above but in other places in dasam granth he has translated fine.

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਬਿਪਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਗੁਨ ਅਤੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁਰਗੁਨ ਸਮੇਤ ਹੋ ॥੨॥੧੨॥
कहूं बेद रीत कहूं ता सिउ बिपरीत कहूं त्रिगुन अतीत कहूं सुरगुन समेत हो ॥२॥१२॥
Somewhere Thou workest in accordance with Vedic rites and somewhere Thou art quite opposed to it; somewhere Thou art without threee modes of maya and somewhere Thou hast all godly attributes. 2.12

Here is one from few from sri guru granth sahib ji where is bhogi is pointer where it points all kinds of bhog - desires including sexual desires-

ਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜੋਗੀਆ ॥
Among Yogis, You are the Yogi;

ਤੂੰ ਭੋਗੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਭੋਗੀਆ ॥
among pleasure seekers, You are the Pleasure Seeker.

ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਮਛਿ ਪਇਆਲਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
Your limits are not known to any of the beings in the heavens, in this world, or in the nether regions of the underworld. ||1||

ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਹਉ ਵਾਰਣੈ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਵ ਨੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
I am devoted, dedicated, a sacrifice to Your Name. ||1||Pause||

 

Again drop your notion of victorian protestant abrahamic view and see gurbani in context what it is..!!

 

 

Edited July 31, 2015 by N30 S!NGH

[CdnSikhGirl]

But we have not proven that it was ever meant to be bani...

1. Evidence mounting that court poets wrote it
2. Even if he was 'pleased' by their rewriting / translation of older hindu scripture, it doesnt mean that he meant for it to be a granth on equal footing to SGGSJ
3. Guru Gobind SIngh Ji himself bestowed Guruship on SGGSJ ONLY.  And told us NOT to bow to any other as Guru. This fact alone makes DG (even if it were the actual words of Guru Ji himself) at lower level than SGGSJ
4. He purposely kept it separate... whether his own work or not... he chose to NOT include it in SGGSJ claiming SGGSJ as the word of God.

So while it might be valuable reading in a historical sense, it's not Guru, and can never be on equal level to SGGSJ.

[SAadmin]

But we have not proven that it was ever meant to be bani...

1. Evidence mounting that court poets wrote it
2. Even if he was 'pleased' by their rewriting / translation of older hindu scripture, it doesnt mean that he meant for it to be a granth on equal footing to SGGSJ
3. Guru Gobind SIngh Ji himself bestowed Guruship on SGGSJ ONLY.  And told us NOT to bow to any other as Guru. This fact alone makes DG (even if it were the actual words of Guru Ji himself) at lower level than SGGSJ
4. He purposely kept it separate... whether his own work or not... he chose to NOT include it in SGGSJ claiming SGGSJ as the word of God.

So while it might be valuable reading in a historical sense, it's not Guru, and can never be on equal level to SGGSJ.

1. He may have asked to write it just how bhai mani singh ji wrote manuscript of dasam granth as Sri guru gobind singh ji narrated it, its a very nitty small semantic point as what matter Guru maharaj approved it and put a seal on it on manuscript.

2. At hazoor sahib, sri guru granth sahib ji is slight higher placed on palki compare to sri dasam granth sahib ji

3. Guruship status is further fragmented into given to multi aspect divine scriptural/ multi aspect saint/sipahi - saint - sri guru granth sahib , soldier- sipahi - sri dasam granth sahib. I beleive there is passage from sarbloh granth talking about this. 

4. Off course he did thats not the reason he kept it because one is word of Guru and other one isn't. I encourage you to read jaap sahib, akaal ustat and proof they are not word of Guru. 

[chatanga1]

 

 chatanga1 pls clarify who you consider the King of Anandpur Sahib?

Chatanga= Biray until you clarify about the Taksal helping congress in 1980 elections please do not ask me questions.

[SAadmin]

Just posting post from one of our member as per request from sikhwi on Poet shyam:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Poet_Shyam

 

 

Controversial Article: This article contains issues which are controversial and may be highly contested. However, to make this article neutral in covering the underlying issues, the following guidelines MUST be followed:

All articles will need to adhere to accepted basic Gurmat principles of respect for and courtesy to others. The basis of a WIKI is trust and regard for each other and to be self-regulating and self-cleansing. All contributions will need to be in good taste. Nonsense and vandalism will be removed and the user barred. If you want to lecture, preach or advocate your personal or political view -Please do it elsewhere, NOT HERE. Advancing your personal agenda will not be allowed. Please do not amend this article before discussing them on the discussion page.  If you have any comments, please enter them here

Poet Shyam is how the author introduces himself in some of the compositions of Dasam Granth. This articles examines the two views that are prevalent on the identity of the writer. The traditional view of the Sikh community coming from generations is that this is the pen-name of the tenth Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh.

However, there is resurgence of the need to re-examine this viewpoint. Some in the community believe that due to various inconsistency in the ideologies of Sikhism as perpetuated in the Guru Granth Sahib and historical dates and facts this stand point cannot be maintained without further detailed investigation.

There are some compositions where the author doesn't identify himself at all. It is upto oneself, if one wants to see Poet Shyam as the author of the whole Granth, or only of the compositions he mentions his name in (Poet Shyam is used as authors name in Gyan Parbodh, 24 Avtar and Charitropakhyan compositions).

Contents

 [hide] 

• 1 Pro Dasam Granth views
• 2 Anti Dasam Granth views
• 3 Internal evidence
  • 3.1 Poet Shyam: Darbari Kavi?
    • 3.1.1 Mahan Kosh
  • 3.2 Sri Gur Pratap Suraj Granth
• 4 Who?
• 5 Infosikh.com on Poet Shyam

Pro Dasam Granth views

• Pro Dasam Granth people often say that the Poet Shyam, Ram and Kaal are the names of one person (Guru Gobind Singh), who used pennames while writing the compositions.

• Other Sikhs are only pro Nitnem Banis, which have been sanctified by the Sikh Rehit Maryada.

• Where the worldly matters are depicted their Shyam is used and where the Spiritual matters are depicted, Ram is used there

But the questions that arises then is that, If all of the Guru's from Guru Angad to Guru Tegh Bahadur wrote Bani under the name of Nanak, to show that all Gurus had Nanak Jot, then why didn't Guru Gobind Singh Ji write Bani using Nanak's name?

Pro Dasam people descibes Ram and Shyam to be part of soul of every human being. Ram and Shyam are used in one swaiya, which itself tells that it's written by Same person. When it comes to Ram, then Ram is one which talks about one and resides in saintly person, and same person contains Shyam when their brain speaks about temporal world. Bhagat Namdev clears Ram Shyam existence in all.

ਸੰਤਾਂ ਮਧੇ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ੝ ਆਛੈ ਗੋਕਲ ਮਧੇ ਸਿਆਮ ਗੋ ॥
The Lord of the Universe, Govind, is within His Saints; Krishna, Shyaam, is in Gokal.

ਨਾਮੇ ਮਧੇ ਰਾਮ੝ ਆਛੈ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਆਮ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗੋ ॥੪॥੩॥
The Lord, Raam, is in Naam Dayv. So here they are: Raam, Shyaam, Govind. ||4||3||

Anti Dasam Granth views

Some say that this is the poet of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Darbar (Court) known only by the name Poet Shyam. This can be seen in Mahan Kosh of Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha, under the entry 'Bawanja Kavi' and also in Kavi Santokh Singh's magnum opus Suraj Prakash Granth. Howhever, Poet Shyam of Dasam Granth does have influence of English, which seems out of place for a poet living in Guru Gobind Singh's time.

More research for Poet Shyam's life is needed. It is request to reader of article pls come forward.

Internal evidence

This has been proven by 'internal evidence', with the original text (including page and line number. Poet Shyam comes several times as the authors name in the compositions, Gyan Parbodh, 24 Avtar and Charitropakhyan. The name Shyam as author poet appears 641 times in Krishan Avtar only (section of 24 Avtar).

Lets see where Poet Shyam appears in Dasam Granth:

• Page 413, Line 2: The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing.1.

• Page 431, Line 11: Both the gods and demons unitedly churned the ocean, which hath been narrated in verse by the poet Shyam.

• Page 433, Line 4: All these names have been reckoned by the poet Shyam according to his own understanding; considering them in small number, poets requested not to slander me.8.

• Page 492, Line 2: The poet Shyam knows him as fourteenth incarnation.4.

• Page 563, Line 1: The poet Shyam has described this incident in the above-mentioned way.323.

• Page 651, Line 12: Seeing the flying fireworks in the sky, the poet Shyam says this figuratively that it appear to him that the gods were flying the citadels of paper in the sky, seeing this miracle.33.

• Page 666, Line 6: This vessels full of oil and ghee fell down from her hands on the earth; the poet Shyam visualized this scene in his imagination; on the other hand, hearing about the killing of Putna, there was great tumult in Braja country and the suffering of the earth ended.104.

• Page 669, Line 4: Then sitting on the sand, all the children clap their hands and the poet Shyam says that all of them sing songs from their beautiful mouths.119.

• Page 669, Line 9: The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna, the Lord of Braja, loves the streets of Braja and he is fully absorbed in the game of hide and seek with other gopa children.121.

• Page 669, Line 11: The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says while mentioning this simile that in order to see this splendour, the sages engaged in various disciplines of yoga are also getting sacrificed.122.

• Page 670, Line 3: They are offering the remaining butter to monkeys causing them to eat; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that in this way Krishna is annoying the gopis.123.

• Page 672, Line 11: Then seeing the marks of sticks on the body of Krishna, the mother, in attachment, began to weep; the 'poet Shyam says that beating of such a saintly personality cannot be thought about, one should not even get angry before him.136.

• Page 673, Line 2: There were small bells tightened over the girdle; the poet Shyam says that the charity and the glory of austerity cannot be described; the mother, in delight, is singing the songs about Krishna from her mouth.138.

• Page 673, Line 13: Krishna kept running and his mother was exhausted; the poet Shyam says that when Krishna was caught, he the Lord of Braja was tied with the ukhal (large wooden mortar).143.

• Page 676, Line 8:The voices of "Bravo, Brovo" were heard in the three worlds and there were supplications "O Lord ! Lighten the burden of the earth." Listen to this story attentively, as described by thepoet Shyam.157.

• Page 678, Line 9: Some of them, twisting the leaves began to play on them like musical instruments; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that seeing this wonderful spectacle, the wives of Indra felt embarrassed in heaven.166.
• Page 685, Line 2

Speaking out his mind, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ gives this simile that the earth, clad in the garments of various colours in imagining herself becoming the chief queen of Krishna.196.

• Page 690, Line 3

At the same time, one thousand golden-horned cows, sacrificing them on Krishna, were given in charity; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that in this way, extending their extreme attachment in mind, this charity was given to Brahmins.220.

• Page 691, Line 1

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna did a very difficult task and with this his name spread in all the ten directions and all this work was done like a juggler, who chews and digests all, keeping himself out of sight.224.

• Page 691, Line 6

Various colours were splashed on women and the women beat the men with staffs (with affection); the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna and beautiful damsels are together playing this tumultuous Holi.225.

• Page 692, Line 10

All are singing there Jaitsri, Malsri and Sri Raga; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna, in pleasure, is playing several musical modes on his flute.231.

• Page 693, Line 2

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that remembering that simile, he is composing the Kabit stanza in his mind and describing that the god of love has awakened in the body of all women and rolling like a snake.233.

• Page 693, Line 7

Krishna, the son of Nand, is playing on his flute and the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that hearing the sound of the flute, the sages and the beings of the forest are getting pleased;

• Page 694, Line 2

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ appears indecisive in his mind about his beauty and says that he has not been able to find a winsome person like Krishna though he has roamed from east to west in order to see one like him.239.

• Page 704, Line 7

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says, "O goddess ! Thou art the death of the demons and lover of the saints and the creator of the beginning and the end;

• Page 706, Line 1

Someone gives the simile of doe for the eyes and the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that like the soul pervading the bodies of the human being, Krishna pervades in the minds of all the gopis.292.

• Page 706, Line 7

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that on one side the gopis are keeping awake and on the other side, Krishna does not get a wink of sleep at night, they are pleased to see Krishna with their eyes;

• Page 721, Line 6

Krishna, the son of Nand, is the giver of comfort to all, enemy of Indra, and master of true intellect; the face of the Lord, who is perfect in all arts, ever gives its mild light like the moon; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the sage Narada also remembers him, who is the destroyer of the sorrow and anguish of the saints;

• Page 723, Line 12

All repeat His Name; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says, that the Lord (Krishna) is the gretest of all; he, who saw him slightly with his mind, he was assuredly allured by his power and beauty in an instant.381.

• Page 724, Line 4

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ has said about this spectacle that Krishna was standing like a warrior with his shield, not caring for the rain of arrows.383.

• Page 725, Line 5

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ has said regarding his going away that he went repenting, like a serpent losing his glory after getting its jewel (Mani) plundered.388.

• Page 728, Line 9

When Krishna and Indra were engaged in talk, there came Kamadhenu, the cow; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that she eulogised Krishna in various ways;

• Page 734, Line 14

Seeing the signs of his eyes, the Bhils are getting terrified, the hearts of all the gopis are allured by Krishna; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that in order to give pleasure to all, the Lord (Krishna) has assumed the garb of a Thug.444.

• Page 736, Line 14

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that amidst all the gopis, Krishna is looking impressive, with antimony in his eyes; his beauty is being seen like the pure beauty of the lotus-flowers;

• Page 737, Line 11

Listening to the sound of the flute of Krishna, all the gopis lost their consciousness; they abandoned their house-work, having been absorbed in the tune of the flute of Krishna; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that at this time Krishna appeared like the deluder-lord of all and the duped gopis have completely lost their understanding;

• Page 740, Line 9

He absorbed himself with the gopis who were blazing with lust; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that in this amorous play, it is beyond comprehension whether Krishan has created the gopis or gopis have cheated Krishna.472.

• Page 741, Line 14

Whatever happened with the gopis, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ tells about it saying that they seemed like fish writhing after quarrelling and separating themselves from the sea.480.

• Page 743, Line 9

He, who gave Lanka to Vibishana and in great fury, killed the demons; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that it was he who protected the saints and destroyed the wicked;

• Page 746, Line 8

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the gopis are swimming the Yamuna` s water and seeing those women of the gait of the elephant acting according to the wishes of their hearts, the deer of the forest are also getting pleased.504.

• Page 750, Line 2

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the gopis are playing with Krishna at nice places on abandoning the city in rainy season and moonlit nights.522.

• Page 750, Line 3

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that gopis have played with Krishna at nice places and it seems that Brahma has created the sphere of gods;

• Page 750, Line 5

On this side, Krishna was accompanied by his boy-friends and on that side the gopis gathered together and started; a dialogue ensued on various issues concerning pleasure; according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’:

• Page 752, Line 5

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that in this way, the love between Krishna and the gopis continued. Krishna accompanied the gopis and leaving the amorous play came back home;

• Page 752, Line 14

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that on hearing the story of the amorous play, Radha, the daughter of Brish Bhan came running; the face of Radha is moonlike and her body is beautiful like gold;

• Page 756, Line 14

The gopis, adorning all their limbs with ornaments, applied antimony to their eyes; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that in this way, they stole the mind of Lord Krishna.557.

• Page 757, Line 4

He, seeing whom the god of love and the moon feel shy, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the same Radha, adorning herself, is playing with Krishna;

• Page 757, Line 9

While describing that spectacle, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ elucidated the glory of the ladies and says that their faces are like the power of the moon and their eyes are like lotus-flowers;

• Page 757, Line 12

The lightning and the doe of the deer are feeling shy and shattering their own pride; narrating that story, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that all the women are allured on seeing the form of Krishna.562.

• Page 758, Line 12

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that all the women are beautiful and seeing the beauty of Krishna, all have merged in him;568.

• Page 760, Line 2

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ is appreciating him, whose beauty is unique; for having whose sight, the bliss increases and listening to whose speech, allsorts of sorrows come to an end;

• Page 760, Line 5

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that all the gopis are playing together with Krishna and they have no consciousness abhout their limbs and raiments;

• Page 761, Line 12

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ lauds him, who is wearing yellow garments; the women are coming towards him singing the musical modes of Sarang and Gauri;

• Page 762, Line 1

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ praises him, who is the enemy of demons, who is a praiseworthy warriors, who is a great ascetic among ascetics and who is a great aesthete among men of taste;

• Page 767, Line 12

He, who had killed the demon named Mur and had measue ed half the body of Bali; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the same Madhave is absorbed in amorous and passionate play with the gopis.613.

• Page 771, Line 1

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says, "Saturated with the relish of music Krishna is dancing on that plane; he is wearing tightly the white cloth, dyed in saffron;

• Page 771, Line 6

Seeing this spectacle even the gods are getting fascinated; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the image of flute-wielder god of love seems magnificent amongst the gopis.633.

• Page 778, Line 4

The gopis began to sing their favourite song; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that they were extremely pleased and all the sorrow of their mind ended.673.

• Page 778, Line 11

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says, "Now it will be talked among women that Krishna has forgotton Radha."676.

• Page 780, Line 9

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna, standing on a beautiful spot, is playing on his flute. "I have been sent to you for this that I may run and bring you there;

• Page 783, Line 13

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that with out seeing the amorous sport of Krishna, why do you persist in sitting here? My mind is eager to see his amorous sport.699.

• Page 785, Line 5

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that messenger was telling Radha that she was impatient to behold her. "O beautiful damsel! I am a sacrifice to you; now you go quickly go Krishna."705.

• Page 788, Line 7

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that this gopi (Radha) does not fear even slightly from Krishna, he is a sacrifice on her boldness when she says that Krishna be brought before her.722.

• Page 789, Line 12

Now leave her and roam with these gopis; or you may go yourself and bring her after persuation;" hearing these words, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna went himself towards her.728.

• Page 790, Line 12

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Radha said, "O Krishna! I was blissfully playing and roaming with you; I endured the ridicule of the people and did not recognize anyone else except you;

• Page 792, Line 12

You are in love with Chandarbhaga and you had compelled me in anger to leave the arena of amorous play;" the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that on saying this much, that deceitful one heaved a long sigh.741.

• Page 793, Line 13

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Radha became absorbed in the love of Krishna; she said smilingly to the Lord of Braja and the winsome luster of her teeth,

• Page 796, Line 6

They were extremely delighted and all their sufferings ended; according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, this time is most fortunate for all of them.760.

• Page 810, Line 14

Obeying the words of the king of Yadavas, that woman applied that balm on his body; seeing the beauty of Krishna, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ has attained extreme happiness;

• Page 821, Line 10

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says, "Those very fortunate gopis are remembering Krishna; losing their consciousness, they are absorbed in the passionate love of Krihsna;

• Page 823, Line 7

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that they learnt all the sciences in sixty-four days; on the sixty-fifth day they went in front of their guru and request him (to accept a religious gift);

• Page 823, Line 13

According to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, this battle continued for twenty days; just as a lion kills the deer, in the same manner Krishna, the king of Yadavas, knocked down that demon.888.

• Page 837, Line 1

Since the day on which Krishna left Braja, he has sent none other except you; whatever love he had extended to us, he has forgotton all that;" according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ he himself had been engrossed with the people of the city of Mathura,

• Page 847, Line 4

By this act, there was so much approbation of Krishna, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that with this praise even uptil this day, the daytime appears white in the sphere of death.998.

• Page 847, Line 12

He stays away from the sins and the savious of the people from all types of ailments; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the same Krishna is the Supreme Pundit who describes the mysteries of the four Vedas 1001.

• Page 848, Line 13

And considered the small nephews as merely nephews and not the creator of the world. In this way, this story happened there, which has ben sung by the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ in praise of Krishna.1006.

• Page 884, Line 14

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that they had not even the slightest fear in this dreadful war and rushed forward shouting "Kill. Kill"; it appeared that the clouds of doomsday were thundering.1185.

• Page 886, Line 8

Someone is fighting with the girdles and someone is fighting by inflicting blows with his spear; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that only those people are fighting, who think of their family-traditions.1192.

• Page 905, Line 11

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says, just as someone removes a grave ailment with the help of medicine or a good poet on listening to a poem of poetaster does not appreciate it in the gathering,

• Page 912, Line 13

In this way, obtaining the boon, Krishna mounted on the chariot with pleased mind; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that on account of his repetition of the name, he obtained the boon of killing the enemy;

• Page 915, Line 10

He died and fell down on the ground and according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ he might have committed the sin of killing many kings, then this arrows of Yama like a Cobra had stung him.1347.

• Page 924, Line 8

Kharag Singh again ran forward killing seven horses and many soldier on foot in the war; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that at the same instant, Kharag Singh killed fifty other great warriors;

• Page 975, Line 11

Twelve Suryas, Varuna, Chandra, Indra, Kuber etc. were struck blows; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that all other warriors struck blows; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that all other warriors who were standing there, were all put to shame.1679.

• Page 990, Line 8

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, while describing that spectacle says that it appears to him that the `anger` had manifested himself apparently in order to see the war-scenes.1766.

• Page 998, Line 2

Krishna killed the army rushing like clouds; a great part of the army was divided into fragments on seeing Krishna; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that there the hope of the warriors for victory ended.1805.

• Page 1004, Line 5

He deprived many chariot-riders of their chariots and wounded ,many of them. The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that in this way Balram exhibited his bravery to the warriours.1835.

• Page 1017, Line 7

His mystery has not been comprehended even by the sage Atri, Parashar, Narada, Sharda, Sheshnaga etc.; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ has described it in poetic stanzas; O Lord ! how can I then please Thee by describing THY glory?1902.

• Page 1023, Line 12

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that surrounding the mountain from all the ten direction, it was set on fire; with the blowing of the powerful wind, the fire burst into flames;

• Page 1024, Line 12

The warriors who came to fight with Krishna, they fought with extreme zest; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that before the strength of Krishna. No warrior can hold patience.

• Page 1029, Line 7

Indra leaving his city alongwith the gods came to see this city and the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna had designed very nicely the outline of this city.1962.

• Page 1030, Line 5

The marriage of Balram was solemnised with Rewati and in this way according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, this episode of the marriage was completed.1967.

• Page 1033, Line 14

And others came alongwith the army in order to welcome him; according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, all the warriors were extremely pleased in their mind.1984.

• Page 1042, Line 3

He did not run away from the battle and began to frighten Pradyumna in order to restrain him from fighting; according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, in this way, this battle continued there.2027.

• Page 1049, Line 4

All the Yadavas were wonder-struck to see this anger of Krishna and the same story has been related by the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ in his Stanzas.2062.

• Page 1058, Line 10

The ministers looking at Krishna, described him as the suitable match; then according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, the king of Oudh felt extreme happiness.2109.

• Page 1067, Line 6

He said to those people," You may now go with me taking this tree to my home;" then all went with Krishna and all this has been narrated by the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ in his poetry.2150.

• Page 1067, Line 8

Then Krishna related the whole story to his family members and the same has been described in totality by the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ in his poetry, with great pleasure.2151.

• Page 1069, Line 6

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ has composed this complimentary story of Rukmani absorbing himself in it and what will happen now, please listen to it with interest.2159.

• Page 1073, Line 7

Krishna also made them understand and came to his place taking his daughter-in-law with him; I, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, am relating the story and pleasing the listeners.2183.

• Page 1079, Line 11

Any powerful warrior, taking his bow and arrows in his hands and in fury, fell upon him, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that he could not return alive.2216.

• Page 1082, Line 6

He, who has praised Krishna, he has earned approbation in the world; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ has related the same virtues, according to his wisdom, by the grace of the saints.2230.

• Page 1083, Line 12

And performing your aarti (circumambulation) by burning the incenses and blowing the conches; buy the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that without love one cannot realise God, the hero of Braja.2237.

• Page 1093, Line 7

He had been adoring Shiva and Ganesha; according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’, he has wasted his precious birth in vain, withoutgetting any merit for this and the nest world.2284.

• Page 1101, Line 13

They used to sleep at night and fight during the day and the story of the battle of both the warriors is related by the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’.2325.

• Page 1102, Line 5

He took a straw in his hand and cleaved it and saw towards Bhima with mysterious look, Bhima likewise cleaved the king according to the saying of ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’.2327.

• Page 1106, Line 3

The heroes like Arjuna and Bhima, sat silently with fear; the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that the poets are a sacrifice to his most charming figure.2343.

• Page 1108, Line 4

In the war, fighting with the enemies, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says, these mighty heroes realised the tax and gave gifts in charity according to the Vedic injunctions;

• Page 1109, Line 9

Yudhishtar was seated there alongwith his four brothers and Krihsna, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that that elegance was indescribable.2359

• Page 1122, Line 6

Leaving the narration of the story of wonderful play, they are seeing Krishna with wonder and the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that Krishna instructed the gopis about knowledge.2425.

• Page 1123, Line 9

The ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that then Devaki came to Krishna and considered him as the True Lord in her mind, as the creator of all the fourteen worlds,

• Page 1127, Line 7

Narada also sings His praises on his Vina (lyre), but according to the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ without love none could realise Krishna as Lord-God.2452.

• Page 1133, Line 7

Discuss in his mind about the Lord on listening about Him from others, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that he will not assume another body and transmigrate.2482.

• Page 1134, Line 2

The frogs croak day and night, the birds always fly, but the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ says that inspite of repeating (the Name) and running hither and thither, none has been able to please Krishna without love.2486.

• Page 1279, Line 7

In his way, the ‘‘‘poet Shyam’’’ has described the episode of the great sage Dutt; this chapter is now being completed hailing the Lord of the world and the mother of the world.498.

 

Poet Shyam: Darbari Kavi?

Some say that this is the poet of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Darbar (Court) known only by the name Poet Shyam. Two of the most reputed books in Sikhi, Mahan Kosh (encyclopedia of Sikhi by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha) and Sri Gurpartab Suraj Granth (by Kavi Santokh Singh) give the name of the 52 Poets in Guru Gobind Singh's court. In both of which, Poet Shyam DOES appear.

Howhever many people that are anti Dasam Granth (Bhai Harmanjit Singh Akali, etc) don't share the view that it is the same Poet Shyam, as for them, it is not believable that even someone in Guru Ji's court could write such poetry. Poet Shyam of Dasam Granth does have influence of English, which seems out of place for a poet living in Guru Gobind Singh's time. Either the Poet Shyam is not one of the Darbari Kavi's OR he was a Darbari Kavi and wrote some/all compositions, and later some people under British rule edited passages in the text. More research for this, and Poet Shyam's life is needed.

Mahan Kosh

The list is from Mahan Kosh by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha under the phrase 'Bavanja Kavi' (Fifty two poets.)

1. Uday Rai 2. Ani Rai 3. Amrit Rai 4. Allu 5. Asa Singh 6. Alim 7. Ishavar Dass, 8. Sukh Dev, 9. Sukha Singh, 1 0. Sukhia, 11. Sudama, 12. Sainapat, 13. Shyam 14. Heer, 15. Hussain Ali, 16. Hans Ram, 17. Kallu, 18. Kuveresh, 19. Khan Chand, 20. Gunia, 21. Gurdas, 22. Gopal, 23. Chandan, 24. Chanda, 25. Jamaal, 26. Tehkin, 27. Dharam Singh, 28. Dhanna Singh, 29. Dhayan Singh, 30. Nannoo, 31. Nishchal Dass, 32. Nihal Chand, 33. Nand Singh, 34. Nand Lal, 35. Pindi Dass, 36. Ballabh, 37. Balloo, 38. Bidhi Chand, 39. Bulland, 40. Brikh, 41. Brij Lal, 42. Mathura, 43. Madan Singh, 44. Madan Giri, 45. Malloo, 46. Maan Dass, 47. Mala Singh, 48. Mangal, 49. Ram, 50. Rawal, 51. Roshan Singh, 52. Lakha.

Sri Gur Pratap Suraj Granth

Kavi Santokh Singh gives this as the list of the Bavanja Kavi's in his magnum opus Suraj Prakash.

1. Nand Lal, 2. Ratee Rai, 3. Amrat Rai, 4. Attu, 5. Asa Singh, 6. Balam, 7. Iswar Das, 8. Sukh Dev, 9. Sukha Singh Sukhia, 10. Sudama, 11. Senapati, 12. Shyam, 13. Haer, 14. Hussain Ali, 15. Hans Rao, 16. Kallu Kubresh, 17. Khan Chand, 18. Gania, 19. Gurdas, 20. Gopal, 21. Chandan, 22. Chanda, 23. Jamaal, 24. Dahkan, 25. Dharam Singh, 26. Dhanna Singh, 27. Dhyan Singh, 28. Nanu, 29. Nihchal Das, 30. Nihal Chand, 31. Nand Singh, 32. Uday Rai, 33. Bullo, 34. Bhudhi Chand, 35. Buland, 36. Brikh, 37. Braj Lal, 38. Mathura, 39. Madan Singh, 40. Madan Gir, 41. Mullo, 42. Maan Das, 43. Mulla Singh, 44. Mangal Ram, 45. Raval, 46. Roshan Singh Makhan, 47. Alam, 48. Lakhan, 49. Udai Rai

Who?

The identity of Poet Shyam is a big mystery. All we can say is that he was a poet living outside of Punjab who had some English influence. The English word 'near' and some others have been used in the poetry with the same meanings as in English.

Infosikh.com on Poet Shyam

Q. In Dasam Granth Sahib Ji there are a number of places where the name Shyam has been used and this confirms that the composition was written by a poet Shyam and not Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Guru Ji has varyingly used the pen-names of ‘Shyam’, ‘Ram’ , ‘Shah Gobind’ and ‘Gobind Das’ in his compositions according to the meter in which they fitted. This is not unusual, other poets like Ghalib, Zafar and Bhai Nand Lal have also adopted multiple pen-names, this should not therefore create any confusion in the minds of the readers of the Dasam Granth. ‘Shyam’ and ‘Ram’ were the nick names with which Mata Gujri Ji used to call Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a child. According to the customs prevalent at that time it was inappropriate for a woman to call out the name of her father-in-law. By calling the young Gobind Rai “Shyam’ and ‘Raam’ Mata Gujri Ji avoided saying the name Gobind, which occurred in the name of her father-in-law, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji.

This misunderstanding about the appearance of names ‘Ram’ and ‘Shyam’ in Dasam Bani was first created by the self-styled puritans called the Bhasurias. They tried to prove that most of the Dasam Granth was written by the poets Ram and Shyam, names which occur in one or two compositions in the Dasam Granth. There is more than sufficient internal and external evidence in every composition to show that all the writings in the Dasam Granth were the works of Guru Gobind Singh. The names Ram and Shyam are used in some places as pen names. Thinking a little deeper, they were actually not pen names but poetic translations of Guruji's names. Guruji's name Gobind is an attributive name of God; so also are Ram and Shyam. In Sikh theology the three words Govind, Raam and Shyam mean the same thing as the following quotations from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove:

dharasan ko lochai sabh koee ||
poorai bhaag paraapath hoee || rehaao ||
shyaam su(n)dhar thaj needh kio aaee ||
mehaa mohanee dhoothaa laaee ||1||

Everyone longs for the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan.
By perfect destiny, it is obtained. ||Pause||
Forsaking the Beautiful Lord, how can they go to sleep?
The great enticer Maya has led them down the path of sin. ||1|| 
(Guru Arjun Dev Ji Raaj Suhi ang 745)

siyam sundar taj an jo cahit jio, kusti tun jok. Bhagat Surdas. Raag Sarang

govid govid govid har govid guni nidhaan....
govid govid govid jap mukh ujhal pardhan Guru Ram Das Ji. Raag Kanara

ram ram kirtan gae ram ram ram sada sahae Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Raag Gaund

In respect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji calling God a poet there are many instances of such here is one;

ਕਬਿ ਕਲ ਸ੝ਜਸ੝ ਗਾਵਉ ਗ੝ਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਜ੝ ਜੋਗ੝ ਜਿਨਿ ਮਾਣਿਓ ॥ ੨॥
KAL the poet sings the Sublime Praises of Guru Nanak, who enjoys mastery of Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||2|| Ang 1389

ਕਬਿ ਕਲ ਸ੝ਜਸ੝ ਨਾਨਕ ਗ੝ਰ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਇਓ ॥ ੧੦॥
Says KAL the poet, the Sublime Praises of Guru Nanak intuitively permeate each and every heart. ||10|| Ang 1390

In all the above quotations from Guru Granth Sahib Ji the words Raam, Shyam and Govind mean the same thing; and so also they do in Dasam Granth Ji where they stand for Guru Gobind Singh. That is why two or sometime all three of these names occur in the same composition. This practice of writing a synonym for the proper noun in the Dasam Granth applies not only to his own name but to many other names also.

If it really was a poet called Shyam who wrote Krishan Avatar as indicated by the name 'Shyam' appearing at the end of some shabads, then why did Shyam not start the composition with his own name? The composition actually starts with Guru Ji declaring himself as the author.

Here is the start of Krishan Avatar :

Chaupai

Je Je Krishan charitra Diakhai
Dasam Beech sabh bakh sunai
All the events that took place in the life of Krishna
Are contained in Tenth chapter of Bhagvata puranas

Giyaran sehas banvein chhanda
Kahe dasam pur baith ananda
It contains 1192 verses
All of which are adapted by the Guru at Anandpur Sahib

At the very beginning it is stated that this compsition has been written by the Guru of Anandpur Sahib, and that can only by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

In fact if one takes a little time to study all the compositions in Dasam Granth Ji, all start in a similar vein. Jaap Sahib Ji starts with "siri mukh vaak patshahi dasmi" - From the sacred lips of the tenth Guru. A compositions have Guru Gobind Singh Ji's stamp at the beginning -

This is the beginning of Vaar Bhagauti Ki.

Victory be to the Wondrous Lord. Invocation to Sri Bhaggauti. Vaar Sri Bhagauti Ki . The Tenth Master.

First and foremost I remember Bhagauti, and then set my mind on Guru Nanak. Then I seek the help fo Guru Angad, Guru Amar Das and Guru Ram Das. Arjan, Sri Hargobind and (Guru ) Har Rai be remembered. Sri Harkrishan be meditated upon whose mere glimpse removes all sorrows. (Guru) Tegh Bahadur be remembered as it causes the home to flourish. They all assist me at all places (1)

Firstly it states clearly that this is the composition of the Tenth master. Secondly only the Tenth Master could leave out his own name when remembering the previous Gurus, a poet in the court of Guru Gobind Singh Ji having recited the names of the nine previous Gurus would never leave out the Tenth masters name. This clearly indicates that the composition is of Guru Gobind Singh Jis pen.s that the composition is of Guru Gobind Singh Jis pen.

Here is the beginning of Gian Prabodh.

Realised through the grace of the True Preceptor. Invocation of Sri Bhagauti. Now begins the Gian Prabodh Branth The Tenth Master.

Sri Akal Ustat

Realized through the grace of the True Protector; Copy of the original in the hand of the Tenth Guru. Blessed am I with the protection of Akal; Available to me is the defense of Sarbloh (All Steel) Blessed am I with the shield of Sarbkal; Available ever is the protection of Sarbloh. Salutations to the Primal Ek Onkar, He permeates over the earth and sea. He is Primal Being, unmanifest and indestructible. His spirit pervades all the fourteen regions.

The opening passage of the Akal Ustat (eulogy to God) makes no mistake as to whose protection Guru Ji seeks.

In the Dasam Granth Ji, Guru Gobind Singh writes 'Netra Trung' for Naina Devi, 'Satdrav' for Satluj, 'Dasampur' for Anandpur, 'Shah Sangram' for Sango Shah, and 'Madra-desh' for the Punjab. Guru Ji has not stuck to a ridgid set of rules when composing gurbani and this should not cause confusion within the Sikhs. Even in our own times Bhai Sahib Vir Singh's maternal uncle Pandit Hazara Singh wrote his name Hazoor Hari while his father Dr. Charan Singh wrote his name Charan Hari. Sardar Dharma Anant Singh, in his book Plato and the True Enlightener of Soul, writes the name of Sant Attar Singh as Mrigindus Atrus.

Q. In Guru Granth Sahib Ji all shabads by the Gurus end in Nanak, yet Nanak very rarely appears in Dasam Granth. Why did all Gurus use Nanak? Because they were followers of Nanak’s philosophy. Was tenth Nanak against Guru Nanak's philosophy?

The anti-Dasam Granth brigade have really excelled themselves in the ignorance department. One cannot compare Guru Granth Sahib Ji with Dasam Granth Ji. They are two separate scriptures dealing with entirely differing areas, concepts and ideas.

Why did Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji create the concept of Miri – Piri?

Why did Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji create the Akaal Takhat opposite Sri Harminder Sahib? If there was already a seat of authority with Guru Granth Sahib Ji installed within it why did Guru Ji feel the need to create Akaal Takhat opposite ?

Why Did Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji erect two Nishan Sahibs at Amritsar?

The answer is quite simple, because each has a different role a different purpose. The two are neede to make a whole. A person cannot be just a sant he needs also to be a sapahi. In the same way Dasam Granth Ji cannot be compared with Guru Granth Sahib Ji as it deals with altogether different areas of human nature.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji starts with Ek-on-kaar, and this concept is explored in Mool Mantra. The Mool Mantra is expanded upon in Japji Sahib, and the whole of Guru Granth Sahib Ji explores and expands on the concept of God and how to reunite with him, emanating from Japji Sahib. Dasam Granth on the other hand, deals with concepts of chivalry, valor, honour, Bir ras, the various fascets of God, His creation and some darker sides of human nature. Since they are different in content and in style then there is no reason why they Dasam Granth should stick to the same rules. So to compare the two is just foolish.

The question can also be posed that why did not Guru Gobind Singh Ji add his compositions to Guru Granth Sahib Ji when Guru Ji created the final form? Guru Ji was the tenth Nanak yet decided not to include his compositions, the fact that he did not does not diminish them in any way, it is the glory of Guru Gobind Singh Ji that in all humility Guru Ji decided not to include his compositions. Yet where Guru Ji’s bani is required, as in the daily nitname of panj banis and in the preparation do Khanday-tha-amrit, then Guru Ji made is absolutely clear that his banis are to be recited. That is the hukam of your Guru, disobey it at your peril!

[Xylitol]

Maharaja Ranjit Singh was ensnared by the wiles of a courtesan and fell for her. Her influence over him enabled traitors to enter the raj and reach very high levels. Consequently, at a key period in Sikh history these traitors conspired with the British and betrayed the raj. The raj fell. As a result every single Sikh man, woman, and child was affected, not just for that generation, but for all generations to come. Besides oppressing the people, the British destroyed the Sikh school system which was one of the best in the world and promoted independent though. That school system has never been recovered, as can be seen by the pendu mentality of many of our people. The British also spread propaganda and worked at creating divisions within our panth, including divisions regarding our Guru Granth Sahib ji and other scriptures and historically important writings. The consequences of one man not have read and understood the Charitropakhyan continue to affect the worldwide panth to this day.