paapiman Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion.Please forgive me for being explicit.The purpose of this discussion would be to show anti-Dasam Gurbani heretics, that sexual imagery is also present in SSGGSJ. If one has so much problem with Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee , then how come they don't problems with these verses in SSGGSJ?If these people say that the below verses have different meanings, then they must also be open to the possibility that Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee can have deeper meanings too. Please note: Daas will be asking some rhetorical questions at the end of these verses. These questions can be used to prove that, one can even question certain verses of SSGGSJ and start rejecting them. Bhul chuk maaf Edited August 13, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 ਗੋਤਮੁ ਤਪਾ ਅਹਿਲਿਆ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੁ ਲੁਭਾਇਆ ॥ Ahalyaa was the wife of Gautam the seer. Seeing her, Indra was enticed. ਸਹਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਚਿਹਨ ਭਗ ਹੂਏ ਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਪਛੋਤਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ When he received a thousand marks of disgrace on his body, then he felt regret in his mind. ||1|| - The word " ਭਗ " refers to Vagina. What was the need for Satguru jee to use such explicit word? ਜਹ ਕੀ ਉਪਜੀ ਤਹ ਰਚੀ ਪੀਵਤ ਮਰਦਨ ਲਾਗ ॥ From where one is born (vagina), one indulges in pleasure from it, where one drinks milk from (breasts), one wishes to rub/massage them. - What is the need for Satguru jee to be so sexually explicit? Why talk about vagina and massaging breasts? This can easily invoke lust. ਉਤੰਗੀ ਪੈਓਹਰੀ ਗਹਿਰੀ ਗੰਭੀਰੀ ॥ O you with swollen breasts, let your consciousness become deep and profound. - Why is Satguru talking about swollen/big breasts? This can easily invoke lust. ਅਜੁ ਨ ਸੁਤੀ ਕੰਤ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਗੁ ਮੁੜੇ ਮੁੜਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ This night, I did not sleep with my Husband , and now my body is suffering in pain. - Why is Satguru jee talking about sleeping with husband? This can easily invoke lust. Note: In the below verses: ਪਿਰਿ - can refer to Husband ਰਾਵਿਅੜੀ - enjoying, which could be taken as sexual enjoyment ਰਾਵੇ - ਭੋਗਦਾ ਹੈ - which can refer to sexual enjoyment ਪਿਰਿ ਰਾਵਿਅੜੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਲੀ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਨਹ ਦੂਰੀ ਰਾਮ ॥ She enjoys and ravishes her Husband, and blends into the Word of the Shabad, pervading and permeating everywhere; the Lord is not far away. ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਈ ॥੨॥ O Nanak, the bride enjoys and ravishes her Beloved; God is pervading and permeating everywhere. ||2|| ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵੇ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੜੀਏ ਪਿਰ ਕਾ ਮਹਲੁ ਤਿਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥ Ravishing/enjoying with her Husband, she is imbued with His Love; she obtains the Mansion of His Presence. - Why is Satguru jee talking about enjoying with husband? This can be taken in the wrong sense and invoke lust. Another verse with Sexual Imagery: ANG 198 ਜਿਉ ਕਾਪੁਰਖੁ ਪੁਚਾਰੈ ਨਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ or a eunuch caressing a woman. ||1|| ਕਾਪੁਰਖੁ - can refer to a transgender or an impotent man ਪੁਚਾਰੈ - can mean licking and kissing (Please see Pg. 6 for evidence) Another meaning: How can an impotent man satisfy the sexual desires of a woman (Please see Pg.6 for evidence from Fareedkot wala teeka) More Verses ਅਨਦੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਨਾਰੀ ॥ Literally it means - enjoy with beautiful women. ਸਸੁੜਿ ਸੁਹੀਆ ਕਿਵ ਕਰੀ ਨਿਵਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਥਣੀ ॥ O mother-in-law, how can I bow? Because of my stiff nipples, I cannot bow. ------ ਸੇ ਭੀ ਢਹਦੇ ਡਿਠੁ ਮੈ ਮੁੰਧ ਨ ਗਰਬੁ ਥਣੀ ॥੧॥ - I have seen them come crumbling down. O bride, do not be so proud of your nipples. ||1|| ਨਵ ਰੰਗ ਲਾਲੁ ਸੇਜ ਰਾਵਣ ਆਇਆ ॥ My Darling Beloved is new and fresh; He has come to my bed to enjoy me. ਕਾਮਣਿ ਤਉ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਕੰਤੁ ਮਨਾਇ ॥ O bride, decorate yourself, after you surrender and accept your Husband. ਮਤੁ ਸੇਜੈ ਕੰਤੁ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਏਵੈ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ Otherwise, your Husband will not come to your bed, and your ornaments will be useless. -------- ਕਹਾਂ ਸੁ ਸੇਜ ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਵੇਖਿ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ Where are those beautiful women, reclining on their beds, whose beauty would not allow one to sleep? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hindu_insulting_Maharaj Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Good time 4u to insult the truth of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Majaraj now that u knew N30 wasn't here to ban you. How dare u insult Maharaj to score points 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Also include this "charitar" from the vaars of Bhai Gurdas: ਕਾਮਣਿ ਕਾਮਣਿਆਰੀਐ ਕੀਤੋ ਕਾਮਣੁ ਕੰਤ ਪਿਆਰੇ।The enchantress wife with her charms made the husband dote on her. ਜੰਮੇ ਸਾਈਂ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਵੀਵਾਹਿਆ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।He forgot the parents who had given him birth and had got him married. ਸੁਖਾਂ ਸੁਖਿ ਵਿਵਾਹਿਆ ਸਉਣੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਿਚਾਰਿ ਵਿਚਾਰੇ।Having made vows of offerings and considerd many good and bad omens and auspicious combinations, his marriage had been arranged by them. ਪੁਤ ਨੂਹੈਂ ਦਾ ਮੇਲੁ ਵੇਖਿ ਅੰਗ ਨ ਮਾਵਨਿ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਵਾਰੇ।Seeing at the meetings of the son and the daughter-in-law, the parents had felt overjoyed. ਨੁੰਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਮੰਤ ਕੁਮੰਤ ਦੇਇ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਛਡਿ ਵਡੇ ਹਤਿਆਰੇ।The bride then started continuously advising the husband to desert his parents instigating that they had been tyrants. ਵਖ ਹੋਵੈ ਪੁਤੁ ਰੰਨਿ ਲੈ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।Forgetting the benefactions of parents, the son alongwith his wife got separated from them. ਲੋਕਾਚਾਰਿ ਹੁਇ ਵਡੇ ਕੁਚਾਰੇ ॥੧੨॥Now the way of the world has become grossly immoral. http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/37/pauri/12/line/4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 You DO kow that what is meant by "Ravishing her Husband" that "her" is Soul-Bride and "Husband" is God... you DO know that don't you??? It has nothing to do with physical women and men and sex. I'm sorry that you can't undertsand allegory Paapiman. O' Nanak the bride enjoys and ravishes (not sexually, but using exstacy as a means to describe the overwhelming feeling of being ONE with God) her Beloved (God), you neglect what is written on the very same line just after the comment - God is pervading and permeating everywhere. This PROVES UNEQUOVICALLY that it's speaking about Soul-Bride and Husband-Lord. She enjoys and ravishes her Husband - again "she" is soul bride and "Husband" is God. AGAIN you neglect what is written immediately after it on the exact same line! Blends into the word of the sbahad, pervading and permeating everywhere the Lord is not far away!How dare you take Gurbani, which is using allegory to explain the relationship of soul to Waheguru, to suggest that it's erotic! I expected more of you Paapiman!This night I did not sleep with mu husband, and now my body is suffering in pain. Again it's speaking of Husband Lord (God). When we do not 'sleep with' meaning when we are not close to God we suffer in pain of separation.Really, I am appalled that even you would stoop this low Paapiman! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Good time 4u to insult the truth of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Majaraj now that u knew N30 wasn't here to ban you. How dare u insult Maharaj to score pointsProvide evidence, not personal opinions. There are people out there, who are insulting Gurbani. They need to be tackled hard.Become a registered member and discuss.Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Also include this "charitar" from the vaars of Bhai Gurdas: ਕਾਮਣਿ ਕਾਮਣਿਆਰੀਐ ਕੀਤੋ ਕਾਮਣੁ ਕੰਤ ਪਿਆਰੇ।The enchantress wife with her charms made the husband dote on her. ਜੰਮੇ ਸਾਈਂ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਵੀਵਾਹਿਆ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।He forgot the parents who had given him birth and had got him married. ਸੁਖਾਂ ਸੁਖਿ ਵਿਵਾਹਿਆ ਸਉਣੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਿਚਾਰਿ ਵਿਚਾਰੇ।Having made vows of offerings and considerd many good and bad omens and auspicious combinations, his marriage had been arranged by them. ਪੁਤ ਨੂਹੈਂ ਦਾ ਮੇਲੁ ਵੇਖਿ ਅੰਗ ਨ ਮਾਵਨਿ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਵਾਰੇ।Seeing at the meetings of the son and the daughter-in-law, the parents had felt overjoyed. ਨੁੰਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਮੰਤ ਕੁਮੰਤ ਦੇਇ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਛਡਿ ਵਡੇ ਹਤਿਆਰੇ।The bride then started continuously advising the husband to desert his parents instigating that they had been tyrants. ਵਖ ਹੋਵੈ ਪੁਤੁ ਰੰਨਿ ਲੈ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।Forgetting the benefactions of parents, the son alongwith his wife got separated from them. ਲੋਕਾਚਾਰਿ ਹੁਇ ਵਡੇ ਕੁਚਾਰੇ ॥੧੨॥Now the way of the world has become grossly immoral. http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/37/pauri/12/line/4Bro, is the above charitar, regarding a particular personality?Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Sex is everywhere. You cannot avoid it.You see bees dancing around, butterflies dancing, birds playing with each other, pollen transferring from one flower to another, night giving into day, when shakti rises to meet shiva that is also sex, when you are chanting mantra, your tongue is a linga rubbing against the roof of mouth, that is also called maithuna.Once a devotee said to Baba Ishar Singh Ji that your belly is getting fact, Baba Ji replied we are pregnant with bindu of Guru Nanak, we have internalized Guru Nanak inside.Even pooran mahapurakhs have sex with God, not physically , but on a way deeper level.Man this stuff is deep and way beyond our understanfin, Gurbani is deeeeeep, we have no idea, our ego makes us think we can interpret it but no sir....So the sexual imagery is not to be seen as sexual but something beyond comprehension.Paapiman, ur intentions seem honest, but no matter how hard you try the nindaks of dasam bani will not stop, so let them be, hopefully Guru sahib bless them with understanding.wjkk wjkf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Provide evidence, not personal opinions. There are people out there, who are insulting Gurbani. They need to be tackled hard.Become a registered member and discuss.Bhul chuk maafPaapiman, you just took Gurbani which is speaking about the relationship and union between Soul-Bride and Husband Lord and turned it into mere porn. And Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji IS GURU! You just directly INSULTED our Guru! Dasam Granth was never given Guruship by Guru Gobind Singh Ji... even if he wrote some of it. However there exists historical evidence as was shown recently which suggests that at least some of it was written by court poets and even if Guru Ji was 'pleased' with their workks, its not the same as telling us to follow it as he gave Guruship to ONLY SGGSJ and told us to ONLY bow to SGGSJ. Therefore there is a HUGE debate about whether it can all be considered bani. Now we are not talking about those authentic banis that are not disputed at all!!!! But you just made a mockery out of SGGSJ - where allegory has been used to describe the elation one finds (male or female) as soul-bride to husband-lord... our relationship to God. There is no suggestion at ANY of it being sexual in nature. You have crossed the line Paapiman and you just effectively disgraced yourself in front of everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSG Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I think we are missing the point here.Why does one read Gurbani ?My understanding is that for enhancing one spiritually , to become close to the almighty , to get rid of the 5 thieves (lust , anger ,greed,ego,materialism) etc.., this relationship is between you and almighty . If you feel by reading any granth you are hitting this areas , and becoming a better person then read it , practice it , if not then dont , as simple as that , and the more spiritually enlightened one becomes the closer to the truth they become. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Just to re-iterate stop discussing Charitropakhyan. Plus I thought such topics were only once a month.In my personal opinion only, It is not for common people. It is only for men-women who are extremely extremely attractive and are at risk of being seduced by members of opposite sex and subsequently at danger of losing their religion to a trickery. Or you are a billionaire & a member of opposite sex is trying to trick you or you hold a very high position in Government like a president and enemies want to use whatever trick possible at their hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Paapiman, ur intentions seem honest, but no matter how hard you try the nindaks of dasam bani will not stop, so let them be, hopefully Guru sahib bless them with understanding.Choice is simple, for these nindaks of Gurbani.Insult of SDGSJ = Insult of SSGGSJ = Get out of Sikh panth.Bhul chuk maaf Edited August 12, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Choice is simple, for these nindaks of Gurbani.Rejection of SDGSJ = Rejection of SSGGSJ = Get out of Sikh panth.Bhul chuk maafWho are you to tell others to get out of Sikh panth? You don't even consider yourself to be Sikh!!! We've already proven that DG is NOT the same and NOT EQUAL to SGGSJ as Guruship was only given to SGGSJ alone BY GURU JI HIMSELF!!! This is proven by the fatc that even the places which revere DG as totally being bani they STILL keep it at a lower level than SGGSJ!!!If you want to ignore Guru Gobind Singh JI's instruction to see SGGSJ alone as Guru then fine, but don't think you have any right to tell others to get out of Sikh panth! Edited August 12, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ban Paapiman Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Admin + mods please eh paapiman nu ban karo.He has crossed all limits. This paapiman troll admits he is not SikhSo we are we tolerating this troll insult our Guru Sahib Ji Maharaj? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 In my personal opinion only, It is not for common people. It is only for men-women who are extremely extremely attractive and are at risk of being seduced by members of opposite sex and subsequently at danger of losing their religion to a trickery. Or you are a billionaire & a member of opposite sex is trying to trick you or you hold a very high position in Government like a president and enemies want to use whatever trick possible at their hand. Bro, you have a good point. This Gurbani can be of great help to people who work at high levels of military, government, corporate industry, administration, etc and also for people who are attractive and wealthy.Having said that, some Charitars can even teach a layman, great morals and ethics, which can be applied in daily life.People, who are below the age of 25 or people, who are greatly affected by Kaam (lust) should also avoid reading these Charitars. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BhagatSingh Posted August 12, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.Did I understand it correctly? Paapiman, ur intentions seem honest, but no matter how hard you try the nindaks of dasam bani will not stop, so let them be, hopefully Guru sahib bless them with understanding.Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to today's society.Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into. Edited August 12, 2015 by BhagatSingh 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.Did I understand it correctly?Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to today's society.Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.Lol! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Who are you to tell others to get out of Sikh panth? You don't even consider yourself to be Sikh!!! We've already proven that DG is NOT the same and NOT EQUAL to SGGSJ as Guruship was only given to SGGSJ alone BY GURU JI HIMSELF!!! This is proven by the fatc that even the places which revere DG as totally being bani they STILL keep it at a lower level than SGGSJ!!!If you want to ignore Guru Gobind Singh JI's instruction to see SGGSJ alone as Guru then fine, but don't think you have any right to tell others to get out of Sikh panth! Nobody has proven shit. You think what the so called scholar sikh koj really proved anything? You are just blind and will stay blind cause you do not want to believe no matter how true a thing might be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to today's society.Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Nobody has proven shit. You think what the so called scholar sikh koj really proved anything? You are just blind and will stay blind cause you do not want to believe no matter how true a thing might be.I didn't say anything about Sikh Khoj... I said that DG is NOT at the SAME level or EQUAL to SGGSJ was proven by the facts:1. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Guruship to SGGSJ ONLY and explicitly instructed to bow to ONLY SGGSJ as Guru. 2. Places that keep both SGGSJ and DG, DG is always sitting at a lower level than SGGSJ, in respect of the higher place SGGSJ has OVER DG. Neither of these facts, have anything to do with the historical issues brought up by Sikh Khoj, which are a separate issue all together. Edited August 12, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Nobody has suggested that it was meant to be entertainment (except maybe this Paapiman fellow) what has been suggested is that it was written to denigrate women and make them look to all be deceiving conniving immoral trollops and to plant suspicion and distrust of women in the minds of us men. Guru Granth Sahib Ji in contrast only uses husband and wife as a metaphor to describe our souls relationship to the divine. Big difference! Any reference to bride in Gurbani is speaking of our soul as in marriage Union to Waheguru. To suggest that it's sexual in any way at all (especially ignoring the what's written right after it) is blatant disrespect of Gurbani and this Paapiman should be moderated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest is shyam poet = Guru? Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Paapiman's insult of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaja is clear.True Gurbani is being considered the equal of erotica written by ShyamPaapiman will probably be one of the first people to watch 3H0's charitropakhyan film as the shakti of sex is all around so why oppose porn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Seems like you have edited your post? Somewhere you wrote 'Now there is historical proof that DG is not fully written by guru gobind Singh Ji' or something to that effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I didn't say anything about Sikh Khoj... I said that DG is NOT at the SAME level or EQUAL to SGGSJ was proven by the facts:1. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Guruship to SGGSJ ONLY and explicitly instructed to bow to ONLY SGGSJ as Guru. 2. Places that keep both SGGSJ and DG, DG is always sitting at a lower level than SGGSJ, in respect of the higher place SGGSJ has OVER DG. Neither of these facts, have anything to do with the historical issues brought up by Sikh Khoj, which are a separate issue all together. Namaskar Sri Kharag KO. I bow down just the same way I do to Maharaj to shastar at home. Crystal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to today's society.Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.Good points bro. Gurparsaad, the katha of Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee will be out in the future. That should eliminate many doubts too.Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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