Ragmaala Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 - When Guru ji talks about the creation of human body, starting from Bindu- When Guru ji talks about meat, baby drinking milk, then he grows up to become a youth enjoying meat of opposite member.- The union of shiv & shakti- The union of soul & creator- there are many lines which say like a lustful person enjoys sex similarly a bhagat enjoys naam. people can interpret it wrong saying you can enjoy sex too.- and many other similar themeslook for yourself.but I think you have proved your point papiman.ps, papiman, you should create a thread where Guru Ji scolds us badly, for example where we are called donkeys, mothers who canot give birth to bhagats better stay barren, how niguras name is even bad, how someone is like a son of prostitute if he doesnt behave certain way, we need these shittar and slaps from guru ji so we stay sharp!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 More Erotica in SSGGSJ: ਨਵ ਰੰਗ ਲਾਲੁ ਸੇਜ ਰਾਵਣ ਆਇਆ ॥My Darling Beloved is new and fresh; He has come to my bed to enjoy me. ਕਾਮਣਿ ਤਉ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਕੰਤੁ ਮਨਾਇ ॥O bride, decorate yourself, after you surrender and accept your Husband.ਮਤੁ ਸੇਜੈ ਕੰਤੁ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਏਵੈ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਇ ॥Otherwise, your Husband will not come to your bed, and your ornaments will be useless. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 bro, calm down with the word erotica...ppl r going to take it the wrong way esp the beginnersthese r advanced concepts used for those who r almost there to their union with God... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 bro, calm down with the word erotica...ppl r going to take it the wrong way esp the beginnersthese r advanced concepts used for those who r almost there to their union with God...Bro, the need of the time is to focus on the word "Erotica", as some people are having trouble with it, being used explicitly in Sri Charitropakhyan Sahib jee. How come these people (nindaks), are not questioning these tuks in SSGGSJ? Why the double standards?Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 Another one: ਕਹਾਂ ਸੁ ਸੇਜ ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਵੇਖਿ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥Where are those beautiful women, reclining on their beds, whose beauty would not allow one to sleep? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 In my humble opinionThese translations are wrong. Although my Punjabi is limited, I don't believe there is a word called 'darling' in Punjabi. What next? Honey? Sugar? 'Sweetums'? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even Google translate does not give the word 'Darling', when I tried translating the above verse. Punjabi culture is generally very conservative. Punjabis are not free with expressions of love between lovers like in the West.Secondly, as per my understanding what is written in SGGS Ji is allegory or metaphors and not explicit. Whereas from what I've read on the stories from this site from Dasam Granth, they are explicit. Please educate yourselves on the difference. One are metaphos and the other are stories/tales. This thread is a poor attempt to find parallels between SGGS Ji and Dasam Granth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) In my humble opinionThese translations are wrong. Although my Punjabi is limited, I don't believe there is a word called 'darling' in Punjabi. What next? Honey? Sugar? 'Sweetums'? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even Google translate does not give the word 'Darling', when I tried translating the above verse. Punjabi culture is generally very conservative. Punjabis are not free with expressions of love between lovers like in the West.Secondly, as per my understanding what is written in SGGS Ji is allegory or metaphors and not explicit. Whereas from what I've read on the stories from this site from Dasam Granth, they are explicit. Please educate yourselves on the difference. One are metaphos and the other are stories/tales. This thread is a poor attempt to find parallels between SGGS Ji and Dasam Granth.Guest jee, are you a Punjabi scholar? The above translations (on this page) are from a scholar (with slight changes).Do you know who wrote Kamasutra? and where it was written?How you do know, that the Gurbani of Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee does not have deeper meanings? Are you a scholar? Have you read the Gurumukhi version of Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee or just the English translations? We, as Sikhs know that they (above verses) are metaphors. Ask non-Sikh Punjabis, what will they think of first, when the above verses are read to them? Why did Satguru jee use sexual imagery? He could have used non-sexual ones.Are you trying to say that if a story is explicit in nature, one cannot learn anything from it?SSGGSJ and SDGSJ are equal, as both are Gurbanis. If one has too much problem with Gurbani of tenth master, then one can always leave Sikhism.Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 13, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 These translations are wrong. Although my Punjabi is limited, I don't believe there is a word called 'darling' in Punjabi. What next? Honey? Sugar? 'Sweetums'? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guest jee - Do you know, how many languages are used in SSGGSJ? ਨਵ ਰੰਗ ਲਾਲੁ ਸੇਜ ਰਾਵਣ ਆਇਆ ॥My Darling Beloved is new and fresh; He has come to my bed to enjoy me. The word "ਲਾਲੁ " means "darling". Please have a look below.[1] - http://www.shabdkosh.com/hi/translate?e=darling&l=hi Please be more responsible in the future, before posting. On one hand, you are saying that your Punjabi is limited and on the other hand, you are claiming that the translations done by a scholar above, are wrong. Better to keep mum, if you have limited knowledge in a field (applies to me too). Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Secondly, as per my understanding what is written in SGGS Ji is allegory or metaphors and not explicit. Whereas from what I've read on the stories from this site from Dasam Granth, they are explicit. Please educate yourselves on the difference. One are metaphos and the other are stories/tales. This thread is a poor attempt to find parallels between SGGS Ji and Dasam Granth.Guest jee - Do you know how many metaphors and allegories are used in SDGSJ? Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 12, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Certain words in any given language will not have a direct translation. In my humble opinion, The word 'darling' is unique to the English language. You can come up with words that are close to it but not exactly what it is.The google translate for darling is 'mithari' which is totally a different word from what you gave. I'm not doubting the Scholars however I believe the correct word would be maybe love.If you're Punjabi speaker you'll know what I mean. We do not have a direct translation for the word darling only words that may be close to it. I could be wrong here, I do not deny that. Anyway this is besides the point. The point is this, SGGS Ji is written in metaphors whereas the stories (from what I've read at this site) from Dasam Granth are tales/events and are explicit. Therefore they are not comparable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Anyway this is besides the point. The point is this, SGGS Ji is written in metaphors whereas the stories (from what I've read at this site) from Dasam Granth are tales/events and are explicit. Therefore they are not comparable.Guest jee - How much knowledge do you have of SDGSJ? There are metaphors and allegories used in SDGSJ. Please acquire more knowledge about it, before posting comments. Bottom line: Explicit sexual imagery is used in SSGGSJ. One cannot deny this fact. If one has problem with Erotica in SDGSJ, then how come they have no problem with the above tuks, in SSGGSJ? How come, they are still Sikhs? Why not leave Sikhism?Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 13, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 In my humble opinionThese translations are wrong. Although my Punjabi is limited, I don't believe there is a word called 'darling' in Punjabi. What next? Honey? Sugar? 'Sweetums'? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even Google translate does not give the word 'Darling', when I tried translating the above verse. Punjabi culture is generally very conservative. Punjabis are not free with expressions of love between lovers like in the West.Secondly, as per my understanding what is written in SGGS Ji is allegory or metaphors and not explicit. Whereas from what I've read on the stories from this site from Dasam Granth, they are explicit. Please educate yourselves on the difference. One are metaphos and the other are stories/tales. This thread is a poor attempt to find parallels between SGGS Ji and Dasam Granth. Are you a registered member of this forum?Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Dear Paapiman,Please get someone to explain to you what is a metaphor and what does explicit mean and the difference between the two, in real life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Certain words in any given language will not have a direct translation. In my humble opinion, The word 'darling' is unique to the English language. You can come up with words that are close to it but not exactly what it is.Laal would be more appropriately translated as beloved, rather than darling beloved. However to maximise the nuance of beloved, other words can be added "darlinbg beloved", "precious beloved", "sweet beloved" etc but in the Gurbani pangti quoted above the word "laal" can be both words or either beloved only. Personally I would prefer to see it as "beloved" only. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Dear Paapiman,Please get someone to explain to you what is a metaphor and what does explicit mean and the difference between the two, in real life.Guest jee: Please avoid making irresponsible statement like "These translations are wrong" in the future. We need to respect our scholars.Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnPathToSikhi Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Guest jee: Please avoid making irresponsible statement like "These translations are wrong" in the future. We need to respect our scholars.Bhul chuk maafI would consider that translation incorrect. Classic example of lost in translation. It is wrong even from a verbatim context. Would you not agree? There is no reference to 'Rang' in the translation. A simple translation of 'Rang Laal' would be 'Colour Red'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I would consider that translation incorrect. Classic example of lost in translation. It is wrong even from a verbatim context. Would you not agree? There is no reference to 'Rang' in the translation. A simple translation of 'Rang Laal' would be 'Colour Red'.Bro, that translation is by Dr.Sant Singh Khalsa. He is a scholar.Words have multiple meanings. Did you check the link above? There are 11 words in Hindi, for the word darling:http://www.shabdkosh.com/hi/translate?e=darling&l=hiਨਵ ਰੰਗ ਲਾਲੁ ਸੇਜ ਰਾਵਣ ਆਇਆ ॥ਨਵ - means new, nine, etcਰੰਗ - means color, kind, love, happiness, bliss, enjoyer, etcਲਾਲੁ - means darling, loved one, red, expensive stone, etc Referencehttp://www.khojgurbani.com/worddetailBhul chuk maaf Edited September 15, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnPathToSikhi Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 There are 11 words in Hindi, for the word darling:http://www.shabdkosh.com/hi/translate?e=darling&l=hiYou are referring to multiple meanings for each word and the expectation is to arrive at only a single meaning that you want to tag as 'eroticism', in your own ego to prove someone else wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Mods: Please have this topic locked. I think paapiman has gone overboard on this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) You are referring to multiple meanings for each word and the expectation is to arrive at only a single meaning that you want to tag as 'eroticism', in your own ego to prove someone else wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Mods: Please have this topic locked. I think paapiman has gone overboard on this one.Bro, take it easy. Do you think, you have more knowledge than Dr.Sant Singh Khalsa? That translation was not done by me.Don't you get enraged when idiots talk nonsense about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. Don't they go overboard?Talking nonsense and doing ninda of Gurbani, does not make those heretics right. Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 15, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Laal would be more appropriately translated as beloved, rather than darling beloved. However to maximise the nuance of beloved, other words can be added "darlinbg beloved", "precious beloved", "sweet beloved" etc but in the Gurbani pangti quoted above the word "laal" can be both words or either beloved only. Personally I would prefer to see it as "beloved" only.Bro, there are two words - ਰੰਗ and ਲਾਲੁ. Sant Singh jee has probably translated ਲਾਲੁ as "Darling" and ਰੰਗ as "Beloved", which makes compete sense.Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnPathToSikhi Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Bro, take it easy. Do you think, you have more knowledge than Dr.Sant Singh Khalsa? That translation was not done by me.Bhul chuk maafI tried to make a point to you and so have others here that Gurbani cannot be interpreted only rigidly in a particular way. You read and the Guru speaks to you. Possibly differently for every one, every time.Forget any sexual or erotic imagery/context in any Gurbani since there is none. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) I tried to make a point to you and so have others here that Gurbani cannot be interpreted only rigidly in a particular way. You read and the Guru speaks to you. Possibly differently for every one, every time.Forget any sexual or erotic imagery/context in any Gurbani since there is none.Bro, do you know the purpose of this topic? Did you read the first post, on this thread?Many Gurbani tuks have multiple meanings/interpretations. Where has Daas denied that?Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 15, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Dr Sant Singh Khalsa was from the 3HO movement and he did not know Gurmukhi or Punjabi. His translation was mostly done by the notes of Sri Yogi Bhajan and by looking into older translations and making the language more sharp. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 ਨਵ ਰੰਗ ਲਾਲੁ ਸੇਜ ਰਾਵਣ ਆਇਆ ॥Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh jeeQuoteMy darling of ever-new colour has come to my couch to enjoy me. Unquote [1][1] - http://www.khojgurbani.org/shabad/index/1/1/author-4-bhai-manmohan-singhBhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Laal would be more appropriately translated as beloved, rather than darling beloved. However to maximise the nuance of beloved, other words can be added "darlinbg beloved", "precious beloved", "sweet beloved" etc but in the Gurbani pangti quoted above the word "laal" can be both words or either beloved only. Personally I would prefer to see it as "beloved" only.Isn't the literal meaning of 'Laal' red? How did the scholars jump from that to 'darling'? That's quite a stretch. I'm going to check the translation with someone who is fluent in Punjabi in real life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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