Guest Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Guest jee: Please avoid making irresponsible statement like "These translations are wrong" in the future. We need to respect our scholars.Bhul chuk maafDear Paapiman,Scholars are not Gods. They 'can' make mistakes. Yes, it's possible. Even my own Medical Doctor who is a qualified General Practitioner has been wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Mera laal (beloved) rings a bell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 ਨਵ ਰੰਗ ਲਾਲੁ ਸੇਜ ਰਾਵਣ ਆਇਆ ॥Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh jeeQuoteMy darling of ever-new colour has come to my couch to enjoy me. Unquote [1][1] - http://www.khojgurbani.org/shabad/index/1/1/author-4-bhai-manmohan-singhBhul chuk maafBelow is word for word Google translationਨਵ Newਰੰਗ Colorਲਾਲੁ Redਸੇਜ Sageਰਾਵਣ Rawanਆਇਆ Came Where is the word 'Rawan' in your translation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It is "red" yes, but it can also mean "ruby" or jewel, thereby signifying something precious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Isn't the literal meaning of 'Laal' red? How did the scholars jump from that to 'darling'? That's quite a stretch. I'm going to check the translation with someone who is fluent in Punjabi in real life.Guest jee - Laal means a loved one (one of the meanings). Ask anyone who is fluent in Punjabi. Mothers call their sons as "meray laal". If your Punjabi is limited, please do more study on it, rather than making posts, related to a Punjabi word, on a public forum. Your posts might cause confusion for others. We need to realize that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 16, 2015 by paapiman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Dear Paapiman,Scholars are not Gods. They 'can' make mistakes. Yes, it's possible. Even my own Medical Doctor who is a qualified General Practitioner has been wrong.But that does not give people right to slander them. You said "These translations are wrong", which is an irresponsible statement. One should always investigate an issue, before commenting. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Below is word for word Google translationਨਵ Newਰੰਗ Colorਲਾਲੁ Redਸੇਜ Sageਰਾਵਣ Rawanਆਇਆ Came Where is the word 'Rawan' in your translation?Guest jee - Words have multiple meanings. You need to understand that first. ਸੇਜ - bed, heart, etcਰਾਵਣ - enjoy, Rawan (king of Lanka), etcReference:http://www.khojgurbani.com/worddetail/gurmukhi/ਰਾਵਣ Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 16, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) ਸੇਜ Sage Does the above translation make sense? Can someone please provide any insight?Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 16, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I already know what laal means. You need to educate yourself on what a metaphor means as you appear clueless on it. Laal can never be mistaken for darling. Imagine a mother telling her son 'mera darling' as per your example. See how wierd that sounds. LOL! Darling is generally used by lovers or partners. And it's usually used in place of that person's name. Example "darling (instead of Paapiman), could you get me that tub of ghee?" Get it? LOL!As I mentioned earlier, Darling is a unique word in the English language. To the best of my knowledge, there is no real Punjabi translation.Do you even know what the word slander means? If I disagree with the scholars translation that does not equate slander. Yet another word you need to get educated on. You are blindly supporting this translator simply because they support your poorly constructed argument.Rawan is an important character in Hindu mythology. How did they translate and leave out his name when it was there in the first place?I'm sorry but at this juncture I'm inclined to believe that these translations are very poor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I already know what laal means. You need to educate yourself on what a metaphor means as you appear clueless on it. Laal can never be mistaken for darling. Imagine a mother telling her son 'mera darling' as per your example. See how wierd that sounds. LOL! Darling is generally used by lovers or partners. And it's usually used in place of that person's name. Example "darling (instead of Paapiman), could you get me that tub of ghee?" Get it? LOL!As I mentioned earlier, Darling is a unique word in the English language. To the best of my knowledge, there is no real Punjabi translation.Do you even know what the word slander means? If I disagree with the scholars translation that does not equate slander. Yet another word you need to get educated on. You are blindly supporting this translator simply because they support your poorly constructed argument.Rawan is an important character in Hindu mythology. How did they translate and leave out his name when it was there in the first place?I'm sorry but at this juncture I'm inclined to believe that these translations are very poor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It is "red" yes, but it can also mean "ruby" or jewel, thereby signifying something precious.Yes but I don't believe it's darling. At best 'beloved'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I already know what laal means. You need to educate yourself on what a metaphor means as you appear clueless on it. Laal can never be mistaken for darling. Imagine a mother telling her son 'mera darling' as per your example. See how wierd that sounds. LOL! Darling is generally used by lovers or partners. And it's usually used in place of that person's name. Example "darling (instead of Paapiman), could you get me that tub of ghee?" Get it? LOL! What is wrong, if a mother calls her son as a darling? Daas does not find it weird. Even, in English it is used. Is English your mother tongue?Quotemy darling child.Unquote [1][1] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/darling?s=tAs I mentioned earlier, Darling is a unique word in the English language. To the best of my knowledge, there is no real Punjabi translation.The link has already been provided above. There is a Hindi (one of the languages used in Gurbani) translation for it. You are blindly supporting this translator simply because they support your poorly constructed argument.Two translations, from two different scholars have been provided. Do you think, you have more knowledge than, both of them? So you are saying that both of them are wrong? Rawan is an important character in Hindu mythology. How did they translate and leave out his name when it was there in the first place?Again, words have multiple meanings. How hard is that to understand? There might be multiple meanings to the above tuk. Only one arth has been provided.Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 17, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Yes but I don't believe it's darling. At best 'beloved'.Meaning of darling:Quotea person very dear to another; one dearly loved.Unquote [1][1] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/darling?s=tSo according to you, darling and beloved are different from each other? Are you really serious?Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 16, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry but at this juncture I'm inclined to believe that these translations are very poor.Provide counter evidence from a scholar.Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 16, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Provide counter evidence from a scholar.Bhul chuk maafScholar tera ki lagda?Half of these 'scholars' aren't anything special man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Scholar tera baap lagda?Half of these 'scholars' aren't anything special man. Still bro, we need to give them due respect. Sant Singh jee and Bhai Manmohan Singh jee, definitely have more knowledge than me. Daas has no option, but to respect themBhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tree Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Why on Earth should a scholar suddenly have more say in what Gurbani means? Their human just like everyone else. Rather than asking to "post something from a scholar" use your own mind and see what you can consider. Why are you letting other people think for you rather than debating it with your own god given intelligence. Mera Laal, does mean My Beloved. It was a common term of affection, usually for mothers and their children. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Mere laal jio tera ant na jana shabad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Why on Earth should a scholar suddenly have more say in what Gurbani means? Their human just like everyone else. Rather than asking to "post something from a scholar" use your own mind and see what you can consider. Why are you letting other people think for you rather than debating it with your own god given intelligence. Even doctors are humans. Why do we go to them? Reason - They have spent years studying medical science. Similarly, scholars of Gurbani (especially the ones in Taksals) have spend many years studying Gurbani.One cannot compare a scholarly opinion, with an opinion of a fool like me.Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Do you even know what the word slander means? If I disagree with the scholars translation that does not equate slander. Yet another word you need to get educated on. You are blindly supporting this translator simply because they support your poorly constructed argument.Saying - "These translations are wrong" is form of slander as it conveys certainty, with no scholarly evidence presented.Saying - "These translations might be wrong" or "These translations seem to be wrong to me"is not slander, as the person is uncertain. There is a big difference between the two.Anyways, this issue is off-topic. Please start a new topic, if you want to discuss this further. Don't be discouraged to ask questions. You can also become a registered member of this forum. Some forum members have great knowledge and you can learn plenty from them.Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 17, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Below is word for word Google translationਨਵ Newਰੰਗ Colorਲਾਲੁ Redਸੇਜ Sageਰਾਵਣ Rawanਆਇਆ Came Where is the word 'Rawan' in your translation?So according to the meanings you provided, the meaning of that tuk would be:"New color red, Rawan came to Bed"Does that make sense to you?Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tree Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Even doctors are humans. Why do we go to them? Reason - They have spent years studying medical science. Similarly, scholars of Gurbani (especially the ones in Taksals) have spend many years studying Gurbani.One cannot compare a scholarly opinion, with an opinion of a fool like me.Bhul chuk maaf Even Doctors can misdiagnose and even scholars can be wrong. I'm not against going to Scholars but becoming solely reliant on them is a rather narrow approach. Guru HarKrishan Ji blessed an illiterate to the point a Scholar couldn't hold a candle to the depth he understood the Gita compared to him. If you think Scholars are infallible then be my guest. But Rather than asking others to present other scholars, counter the points with your own Gyan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tree Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Just one question.Yes or No answer. No long Paragraph. Can a Scholar be wrong or not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Even Doctors can misdiagnose and even scholars can be wrong. I'm not against going to Scholars but becoming solely reliant on them is a rather narrow approach. Guru HarKrishan Ji blessed an illiterate to the point a Scholar couldn't hold a candle to the depth he understood the Gita compared to him. If you think Scholars are infallible then be my guest. But Rather than asking others to present other scholars, counter the points with your own Gyan. It is possible for a scholar to make a mistake. Daas does not have much gyan of Gurmat. Using one'e own gyan, when one knows very well that he is very low in spirituality, will be big foolishness and an exercise to augment one's ego. Furthermore, Daas is not a language expert. So commenting on Gurbani language and grammar, without scholarly evidence, will make me look stupid. It is similar to me talking about medical concepts on a science forum, while having poor knowledge of Biology.Evidence is the key. One cannot come on a forum and claim that certain translations are wrong, without providing any sort of evidence.Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It is possible for a scholar to make a mistake. Daas does not have much gyan of Gurmat. Using one'e own gyan, when one knows very well that he is very low in spirituality, will be big foolishness and an exercise to augment one's ego. Furthermore, Daas is not a language expert. So commenting on Gurbani language and grammar, without scholarly evidence, will make me look stupid. It is similar to me talking about medical concepts on a science forum, while having poor knowledge of Biology.Evidence is the key. One cannot come on a forum and claim that certain translations are wrong, without providing any sort of evidence.Bhul chuk maafUsing one's own intellect is perfectly fine. The ego kicks in when someone refuses to accept their wrong despite having countless pieces of evidence thrown at them and considers themselves infalliable. You admit you lack gyan on Gumat. I assume this means Sikhi in general, so why are you on here discussion and debating then? The Scholars have done the work for you. Feel free to follow them. You just admitted they may be wrong so it would be polite if rather than asking for Scholarly backing simply try and counter the points yourself or using the knowledge you possess/resources you muster.People are debating to the best of their ability. If their wrong then its a simple case of proving them wrong easily. A instance might occur where the person could actually be right and the scholar wrong. I don't want to take part in this debate. I just feel that rather than asking for Scholarly backing, prove the points wrong with whatever you can. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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