Are Jatts/Jaats Shudar?

[BhagatSingh]

1 hour ago, Sher Singh said:

Khatri  is derived from the word  "Khata" .

Khatri is the word Kshatri (Kshatriya - warrior).

There were many people from warriors tribes that became traders for various reasons. (e.g. Bhai Daya Singh ji)

There were many people from warriors tribes that became farmers for various reasons.  (e.g. Bhai Dharam Singhi ji)

There were many people warrior tribes that became barbers for various reasons. (e.g. Bhai Sahib Singh ji)

Etc

Guru Gobind Singh ji (or one of his court poets depending on your belief) describes this phenomenon in Bachittar Natak of Dasam Granth.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਬਿਪ੍ਰ ਕਰਤ ਭਏ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਬੈਸਨ ਕਰਮ ॥
बिप्र करत भए सूद्र ब्रिति छत्री बैसन करम ॥
The Brahmins acted like Shudras and Kshatriyas like Vaishyas.

ਬੈਸ ਕਰਤ ਭਏ ਛਤ੍ਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਸੁ ਦਿਜ ਕੋ ਧਰਮ ॥੨॥
बैस करत भए छत्रि ब्रिति सूद्र सु दिज को धरम ॥२॥
The Vaishyas started ruling like Kshatriyas and Shudras performed the priestly duties of Brahmins.2.

 

Guru Sahib also emphasized his khatri caste, warrior caste. He wanted those from warrior castes to start behaving like warriors instead of doing trade, farming or grooming.

ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੋ ਪੂਤ ਹੌ ਬਾਮਨ ਕੋ ਨਹਿ ਕੈ ਤਪੁ ਆਵਤ ਹੈ ਜੁ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਅਰੁ ਅਉਰ ਜੰਜਾਰ ਜਿਤੋ ਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਕੋ ਤੁਹਿ ਤਿਆਗ ਕਹਾ ਚਿਤ ਤਾ ਮੈ ਧਰੋ ॥
छत्री को पूत हौ बामन को नहि कै तपु आवत है जु करो ॥ अरु अउर जंजार जितो ग्रहि को तुहि तिआग कहा चित ता मै धरो ॥
I am the son of a Kshatriya and not of a Brahmin who may instruct for performing deep meditations; how can I absorb myself in the embarrassments of the world by leaving you;

ਅਬ ਰੀਝ ਕੈ ਦੇਹੁ ਵਹੈ ਹਮ ਕਉ ਜੋਊ ਹਉ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਕਰ ਜੋਰ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਜਬ ਆਉ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋ ॥੨੪੮੯॥
अब रीझ कै देहु वहै हम कउ जोऊ हउ बिनती कर जोर करो ॥ जब आउ की अउध निदान बनै अतिही रन मै तब जूझ मरो ॥२४८९॥
Whatever request I am making with my folded hands, O Lord ! kindly be graceful and bestow this boon on me that when ever my end comes, then I may die fighting in the battlefield.2489.

[Guest guest]

8 hours ago, jaikaara said:

ohh so you are doing a favor by giving 'better' treatment ? Jaan nai liti ji siraf hathha paira kaate ..waah ji keep it up ! you will really do wonders with such thinking .

Opportunistic exaggeration? Are you even worth any opportunity? 

Khanda tattoo...Bhindranwale stickers ..and all the shitty language as much as possible ..b'chaud and m'chaud..and just keep claiming 200 times ..Assi Jatt aa ji..even to buy mooli pyaaj from the market..

Do you think you are even worth any opportunity ? An uncouth , rude mindset is just worthy of a mental asylum and has no place in civilized society.

the comparison was your point, not mine.  you said they did 'worse than the brahmins'.

now your reasoning has failed you turned this nonesense^.  

still waiting for Paapiman to declare his caste, and you would you like to also Jaikarra.

[Guest guest]

Bhagat Singh your posts are good.  They are the only things basically worth reading around here these days.

Paapiman, where did you get your *facts* from?  Maybe go look at The Deva Samhita.

As I keep saying, people want to criticise other caste/religions but not declare their own.  Even then, criticisms based in jealousy.  Too bad.  Nothing wrong with being shudra.  But thats not the point here.  

[Guest Guest]

Khatris are not Kshatriyas... Wake up. Doesn't matter what the gurus said. They're a business community. 

[jaikaara]

15 hours ago, Guest guest said:

the comparison was your point, not mine.  you said they did 'worse than the brahmins'.

now your reasoning has failed you turned this nonesense^.  

still waiting for Paapiman to declare his caste, and you would you like to also Jaikarra.

There you go ! brains buried in the deep muck of caste ...its a hopeless case

By all means the acts of your types are 'worse than brahmins'.

[Koi]

17 hours ago, Guest guest said:

the comparison was your point, not mine.  you said they did 'worse than the brahmins'.

now your reasoning has failed you turned this nonesense^.  

still waiting for Paapiman to declare his caste, and you would you like to also Jaikarra.

Why should they declare their caste? Are you looking for a rishta for them?

[jaikaara]

2 minutes ago, Koi said:

Why should they declare their caste? Are you looking for a rishta for them?

HAHAHAHAHAHA !

[jaikaara]

And dont think i am a Jatt hater ..majority of my friends are Jatts , i dont spare even Khatris if they come up with this caste hatred .

I feel this identity may perhaps not go , what should go is hatred .

[paapiman]

6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Khatris are not Kshatriyas... Wake up.  

Khatri is the Punjabi word, for the Sanskrit word Kshatriya. Khatris are a warrior caste.

All of our Satgurus were of Khatri/Kshatriya origin. They were born in Hindu warrior families. Bedi, Trehan, Bhalla and Sodhi sub-castes trace their origin to Sri Ram Chandar jee.

Khatris were into business too, but this cannot be used to prove that they were Vaish. Maharaaj also did farming. Does that mean Maharaaj were from a Shudar family? No.

 

Bhul chul maaf

[paapiman]

On 4/12/2016 at 9:47 AM, Guest guest said:

Where did they kill hundrerds of thousands of sikhs?

Gurparsaad, will make a new topic on it.

For a start - KP Gill and Beanta - does it ring a bell?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 4/12/2016 at 10:05 AM, Guest guest said:

where are these numbers?

Jatts are close to 60% of the Sikh Panth. The next are Ramgariahas, who are only close to 10%. You will have to agree that the difference is huge. 

Quote

The Jats in Punjab comprise only 21 per cent population of the total 60 per cent Sikhs, yet they have been ruling and dominating politics in Punjab for decades.

Unquote[1]

[1] - http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/dalit-votes-to-decide-ruling-party-of-punjab/1/169026.html

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Sher Singh]

All of the Sikh Gurus were born in Khatri caste. Guru Nanak's father Mahta Kalu was also  a shopkeeper and he tried his best to make his son follow his caste profession of  shopkeeping. But Guru Nanak rejected his tutoring and became a man of spirit.

 

Please note that although the word Khatri appears to be a vernacular form of Sanskrit Kshatriya, the caste is exclusively composed of cloth merchants,  grocers, perfume sellers (or "Gandhis") and traders .

 

Rajputs , the bonafide Hindu Kshatriya caste,  disown all connection with them and treat them same as one of the Baniya castes.  Aggarwal Baniyas, a reputable vaishya caste of Hindus,  also deny any link with them.

 

English ethnographer Sir Herbert Hope Risley also denied the possibility of the link of Khatris with Kshatriyas. He wrote in 'The tribes and castes of Bengal' : "It seems to me that the internal  organization of the caste furnishes almost conclusive proof that they are descended from neither Brahmans nor Kshatriyas...The section-names of the Khatris belong to quite a different type, and rather resemble those in vogue among the Oswals and Agarwals.  The only group to which we can affiliate them is the Vaisyas"   William Hunter gave  opinion  in The Imperial Gazetter.

 

 

[Sher Singh]

Jatts, used to do farming and cattle rearing in ancient times.  Similarly  some other castes like Saini, Kamboj were  also the in same business. None of them are Shudras. 

Jat,  Kamboh, Mahton and  Saini, Sikh castes are  agricultural and landowning castes.  In the estimation of British  among Sikhs only these Sikh castes were temperamentally and  physically suited for active military service  and warfare  like the hardy Scotish Highlanders back home who also made excellent soldiers. The glorious Sikh Regiment, the most decorated regiment of the Indian Army.

Mazhbi Sikhs  are the Shudras.

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, Sher Singh said:

All of the Sikh Gurus were born in Khatri caste. Guru Nanak's father Mahta Kalu was also  a shopkeeper and he tried his best to make his son follow his caste profession of  shopkeeping. But Guru Nanak rejected his tutoring and became a man of spirit.

 

Please note that although the word Khatri appears to be a vernacular form of Sanskrit Kshatriya, the caste is exclusively composed of cloth merchants,  grocers, perfume sellers (or "Gandhis") and traders .

Bro, for Sikhs, Gurbani is the ultimate source. In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee, Maharaaj clearly proves that all four sub-castes of Satgurus trace their origin to Sri Ram Chandar jee. Therefore, all the Satgurus were from Kshatriya caste, not Vaish.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

An Extract from Pracheen Panth Prakash:

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[paapiman]

43 minutes ago, Sher Singh said:

Rajputs , the bonafide Hindu Kshatriya caste,  disown all connection with them and treat them same as one of the Baniya castes.  Aggarwal Baniyas, a reputable vaishya caste of Hindus,  also deny any link with them.

Most likely, many Rajputs consider Jatts to be Shudar too.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

5 hours ago, Sher Singh said:

Rajputs , the bonafide Hindu Kshatriya caste,  disown all connection with them and treat them same as one of the Baniya castes.  Aggarwal Baniyas, a reputable vaishya caste of Hindus,  also deny any link with them.

Paaji, Bhai saab Bhai Gurdas jee (greatest Sikh scholar) has placed Rajputs in the Vaish category, not Kshatriya.

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

[Guest Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I am really appalled to see Sikhs discussing caste. Have we not learned anything?

Stand back and look at yourselves!  This nonsense was put to death if we follow what our Gurus taught, but here you guys are trying to justify which caste is higher over others and trying to justify who belongs to lower castes. So you can tell yourself in your head you are better or higher than someone else? This sense of superiority is exactly what the Gurus tried to rid us of!

Back HOME in PUNJAB...the Caste is very clear...a Shudra is known to everyone...BUT when the Shudra and his Jatt neighbour BOTH MIGRATE (illegally ) to ..say the UK/Canada etc etc..and BOTH work at BRICKLAYING..and earn the SAME POUNDS...and when BOTH RETURN to PUNJAB VILLAGE...now the tables are turned..the Poor shudra is as RICH as the JATT..economic power !!!makes for TROUBLES..as have been reported in caste based clashes at GURDWARAS....etc etc..dera ballan murder in vienna etc etc...

Second change that now emerges..in CANADA..everyone is not only EQUAL..everyone is UNKNOWN...so we get people who are Low caste in Punjab..calling themsleves GILL DHILLON etc..and pretending to be jatts....but IF ever asked their NATIVE VILLAGE..the cat is out of the BAG !!! This FAKE "high Castes" are also a new emergence...and movements are afoot to make the Low castes PROUD of their low caste..thats why we get songs like PUTT CHAMARAAN DE to EQUAL the traditional Putt jattan sardaran de...but its NOT working..INFERIORITY COMPLEXES take generations to go away...so the FAKE GILLS grow....

IF we all follow the SGGS faithfully and IN SPIRIT..as well as LETTER, these problems will die a natural death...

[paapiman]

4 hours ago, Guest Gyani Jarnail Singh said:

I am really appalled to see Sikhs discussing caste. Have we not learned anything?

Stand back and look at yourselves!  This nonsense was put to death if we follow what our Gurus taught, but here you guys are trying to justify which caste is higher over others and trying to justify who belongs to lower castes. So you can tell yourself in your head you are better or higher than someone else? This sense of superiority is exactly what the Gurus tried to rid us of!

Back HOME in PUNJAB...the Caste is very clear...a Shudra is known to everyone...BUT when the Shudra and his Jatt neighbour BOTH MIGRATE (illegally ) to ..say the UK/Canada etc etc..and BOTH work at BRICKLAYING..and earn the SAME POUNDS...and when BOTH RETURN to PUNJAB VILLAGE...now the tables are turned..the Poor shudra is as RICH as the JATT..economic power !!!makes for TROUBLES..as have been reported in caste based clashes at GURDWARAS....etc etc..dera ballan murder in vienna etc etc...

Second change that now emerges..in CANADA..everyone is not only EQUAL..everyone is UNKNOWN...so we get people who are Low caste in Punjab..calling themsleves GILL DHILLON etc..and pretending to be jatts....but IF ever asked their NATIVE VILLAGE..the cat is out of the BAG !!! This FAKE "high Castes" are also a new emergence...and movements are afoot to make the Low castes PROUD of their low caste..thats why we get songs like PUTT CHAMARAAN DE to EQUAL the traditional Putt jattan sardaran de...but its NOT working..INFERIORITY COMPLEXES take generations to go away...so the FAKE GILLS grow....

IF we all follow the SGGS faithfully and IN SPIRIT..as well as LETTER, these problems will die a natural death...

Why cannot we discuss a problem that exists in our community? The below is from another topic.

Quote

Reality is that caste system is a problem in our community. We need to tackle this issue, rather than hide it under the rug. There is plenty of Brahmin bashing going on in our Panth, but IMHO, Jattvaad is not really being confronted on a large scale or explicitly talked about in Kathas.

Unquote

If Jatts (who are a huge majority in the Panth) realize that they were Shudars and were at the same level as Majhbis (before becoming Sikhs), then IMHO, most of the battle against caste bigotry will be won.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest JATT]

Jatt is a race and not a caste

[Guest JATT]

Please note that Jatt is far more older than Sikhi, which is only a few centuries old .  Jatt is a huge, historic and valiant race and Jatts are not defined by a religion, language or occupation, Jatt is a race and a proud race who has every right to be proud of their ancestors.  Also Jatts speak loud and clear who they are whereas other sikhs do not and the reason is that other sikhs hide behind religion and do not want to openly say who they are, the reason is that they are all ex Hindu caste based people, but Jatts were never Hindus we were Buddhists and then converted to Islam and then to Sikhi and Arya Samaj with many remaining as muslims.  We have maintained our racial charachter and not become caste stratified like you.  

[paapiman]

25 minutes ago, Guest JATT said:

 but Jatts were never Hindus 

Presently, majority of the Jatts (Jaats) are Hindus in the world. They were Hindus before they became Buddhists.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

36 minutes ago, Guest JATT said:

Jatt is a race and not a caste

Sikhism is against both, racial and caste based pride.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

37 minutes ago, Guest JATT said:

 Jatt is a huge, historic and valiant race and Jatts are not defined by a religion, language or occupation, Jatt is a race and a proud race who has every right to be proud of their ancestors. 

Can you please explain where your great ancestors were, when Punjab was being enslaved by foreigners for more than 700 years?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 4/16/2016 at 7:09 AM, Sher Singh said:

All of the Sikh Gurus were born in Khatri caste. Guru Nanak's father Mahta Kalu was also  a shopkeeper and he tried his best to make his son follow his caste profession of  shopkeeping. But Guru Nanak rejected his tutoring and became a man of spirit.

 

Please note that although the word Khatri appears to be a vernacular form of Sanskrit Kshatriya, the caste is exclusively composed of cloth merchants,  grocers, perfume sellers (or "Gandhis") and traders .

 

Rajputs , the bonafide Hindu Kshatriya caste,  disown all connection with them and treat them same as one of the Baniya castes.  Aggarwal Baniyas, a reputable vaishya caste of Hindus,  also deny any link with them.

 

English ethnographer Sir Herbert Hope Risley also denied the possibility of the link of Khatris with Kshatriyas. He wrote in 'The tribes and castes of Bengal' : "It seems to me that the internal  organization of the caste furnishes almost conclusive proof that they are descended from neither Brahmans nor Kshatriyas...The section-names of the Khatris belong to quite a different type, and rather resemble those in vogue among the Oswals and Agarwals.  The only group to which we can affiliate them is the Vaisyas"   William Hunter gave  opinion  in The Imperial Gazetter.

 

 

Please have a look at the topic below.

 

Bhul chul maaf