Are Jatts/Jaats Shudar?

[paapiman]

On 7/8/2016 at 6:54 AM, Guest JATT said:

 

Jat Princely states

• 1. Pilania Jats, Rajas of Unchagaon (Bulandshahar)
• 2. Dalal Jats, Rajas of Kuchesar (Bulandshahar)
• 3. Kakran Jats ,Rajas of Sahanpur (Bijnor)
• 4. Tomar Jats, Rajas of Pisawa (Aligarh)
• 5. Thenua Jats, Rajas of Mursan (Aligarh)
• 6. Thenua Jats, Rajas of Hathras
• 7. Thenua Jats, Rajas of Beswa (Aligarh)
• 8. Thenua Jats, Rajas of Jatoi (Aligarh)
• 9. Tevatia Jats, Rajas of Ballabhgarh (Faridabad,Haryana)
• 10. Bamraulia Jats, Rajas of Gohad (Bhind, MP)
• 11. Sinsinwar Jats, Rajas of Bharatpur
• 12. Bamraulia Jats, Rajas of Dholpur
• 13. Thenua Jats, Rajas of Mokimpur (Bulandshahar)
• 14. Marhal Jats, Nawabs of Karnal (Haryana)
• 15. -- Jats, Rajas of Paschim Kanth (Moradabad)
• 16. -- Jats, Rajas of Purab Kanth (Moradabad)

Here is the info on the Jatts that you requested Mr Majbhi.

 

 

How about we focus on Punjabi Jatts?

Can you please list all Jatt kingdoms in Punjab, before Sikhism (starting from 1020) ?

 

Bhul chul maaf

[paapiman]

On 7/7/2016 at 0:01 PM, Guest guest said:

the jatts were fighting them all the way, and standing by the Gurus the whole time.  you can go and check the history.

On the other hand, there were plenty of Jatts, who were against Sikhs too. Many Jatts were informers and got many Sikhs/Hindus killed. Read Sri Panth Prakash (which is written by a Sikh of Jatt origin).

Also, plenty of non-Jatt Sikhs were with the Satgurus too.

 

Bhul chul maaf

[paapiman]

12 hours ago, Guest JATT said:

This is why we Jatts are rightly proud of our ancestors.

Have a look at the topic below. Sikhs (composed of various castes/races) fought two wars with Jatts and easily defeated them.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

16 hours ago, Guest JATT said:

This is why we Jatts are rightly proud of our ancestors. 

Bro, we can possibly keep discussing this topic for days, but IMHO, it might be a waste of time.  If one claims that Jatts contributed greatly to the Panth, it makes sense, but then one will also have to agree that they have caused massive damage too. Tyrants (of Jatt origin) have possibly killed hundreds of thousands of Sikhs.

If you are born in a Sikh family, you should be proud of Gurbani, Sikh Satgurus, saints, warriors, martyrs, scholars, ethics, values, principles, history, morals, etc. Your ancestral pride should be for all Sikhs, who came from various castes/races.

When a person become a Sikh (by taking Khanday da amrit), his race/caste is Khalsa. He is above all castes/races.

 

Bhul chul maaf

[paapiman]

On 7/7/2016 at 0:00 PM, Guest guest said:

oh so you area majbhis?

jatts arent the problem.  

Daas is a non-Majbhi.

IMHO, attitude of some Jatts has a definite connection with the mass exodus of so-called low caste people from Sikhism.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, Guest guest said:

if jatts so are bad, why are people of your caste so busy trying to steal their surnames etc?  too bad

If some people are stealing Jatt surnames, they might be trying to fit in the society. It does not make much sense. They should take Khanday da Amrit, become Singhs and seek protection/assistance of the Almighty Waheguru.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

14 hours ago, Guest JATT said:

In Sikh history outside of Jatts there is no Sikh history.

Please read below:

Quote

 Almost all the participants whose names are recorded in connection with the battle of Bhangani (i.e. pre-Khalsa period) were non-Jats.34 The first three well-known martyrs from amongst’ the Sikhs, during Guru Tegh Bahadur’s time, were Bhai Mati Das, Bhai Sati Das and Bhai Dyala, all non-Jats. Out of the five Beloved Ones (the Five Pyaras), only one was a Jat, and he too belonged to Hastinapur, outside the Punjab. According to Koer Singh, Guru Gobind Singh said: “Vaisayas, Sudras and Jats I have incorporated in the Panth.”35 Of the twenty five Muktas mentioned by Koer Singh, three were Bhatias, five Khatris, four Aroras, three Lubanas, and two water-carriers.36 The castes of the rest are not given. The forty men at Chamkaur included five Bhatias, four Aroras, some Khatris and Kalals (distillers), two Rangretas (sweeper caste), two Brahmins, Sangat Singh of the Trans-Indus areas, sons of the Guru and the Guru Himself.37 Those who took part in Banda’s campaign, at least in its initial stage, were recruited chiefly from the lower caste Hindus.38 About Sarhind’s conquest by Banda, Irvine writes, ‘The scavengers and leather dressers and such like persons’, who were very numerous among the Sikhs, committed excesses of every description.39

Unquote[1]

[1] - http://sikhinstitute.org/perspective/ch_ii-i.html

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Kira]

 Amrit destroys all Castes, all Amritdhari are casteless, if you are going to be proud of anything, be proud you have Mata Sahib Kaur as a Mother and Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj as a father. Be proud your brother Baba Deep Singh Ji fought decapitated against an overwhelming army, be proud that your sister Mata Bhag Kaur Ji who rallied troops and brought them back into the fold of Sikhi. 

 

Those are what we should be proud of.

[paapiman]

19 hours ago, Guest JATT said:

The Kanheya Misl (Kanhiya) was one of Misal in Punjab. The leader of this Misal was Sardar Jai Singh Kanhaiya a Sindu Jatt.

 

The Nakkai was one of Misal in Punjab. The leader of this Misal belonged to Nakka, Bhunewal, was its capital. A Jatt Hira Singh Sidhu was the founder of this Misl.

Both, Sardar Jai Singh jee and Sardar Hira Singh jee were of Sandhu Jatt origin, not Sindu or Sidhu.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 4/14/2016 at 1:29 AM, Guest Guest said:

 Doesn't matter what the gurus said. 

Are you serious? If you are a non-Sikh, then it is understandable.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest PAKISTANI JATT]

On 7/8/2016 at 7:00 AM, Guest JATT said:

Jatts are a great and ancient peoples.  Jatts therefore had associations with peoples and races and religions from millenia.  There links with early Islam and Arabs is no secret.  It appears that the Jats not only lived in different parts of the Arab lands, they also observed their social customs and traditions in their daily life and that the local people got influenced by them in different ways as the studies of Qazi Ather Mubarakpuri show.

Some Arab writers have referred to the Jats peculiar style of hair cut which had been adopted by some Arabs. Inclusing Mohammed who copied the hairstyle of Jats.  It is today the hairstyle still copied by some muslims.  In the same way some special clothes were known after them and so called al-Thiyab al-zuttia (Jats cloths), which were available in the Arab Markets.  Moreover, in the light of some references in the Arabic poetical works, that certain form of Indian song were known of the Arabs since the ancient period and these were most probably introduced by the Jats as this was called Song of Jats (Ghina al –Zutt) . These points are enough to suggest that the Jats were fully free in the Arab lands to follow and observe the customs and tradition of their native land. This is also supported by the fact that the Jats who had been living in the places around Basrah continued to talk in their original language at least up to the period of the pious caliphs. We are informed by the author of Majma al-Bahrain that they had once spoken even to the fourth caliph Ali in their own language.

It is very interesting that we come to know through the studies of Maulana Mubarakpuri that the Jats residing in Bahrain, Yemen and other coastal regions in a large number had influenced the local Arabs by their language to such extent that the latter lost the originality of their language. For the same reason the language of the people of the tribes of Banu Abd Qais and Azd was declared to be mixed due to their mingling and frequent interaction with Persian and Jat people.

In the same way, it is recorded in Jami-i-Tirmezi, the well known collection of Hadith that the famous Sahabi Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Masood once saw some persons in the company of Muhammad in Makkah, he observed that their hair and body structure is just like the Jats. There are also some other references in the Arabic source to the existence of the Jats in Madinah in that period. They also included a physician (Tabib) who was once consulted during the illness of Aisha, the wife of Muhammad. 

According to a Hadith, Abdulla Bin Masood, a companion of the Islamic prophet Muhammad saw some strangers with Muhammad and said that their features and physique were like those of Jats.^[35] This indicates that Jats may have been in Arabia even during Muhammad's time. It is mentioned in the Abadis i.e., the authentic traditions of Mohammad compiled by Imam Bukhari (d. 875 A.D - 256 A.H) that an Indian tribe of jats had settled in Arabia before Mohammad’s times . Bukhari also tells us that an Indian Raja (king) sent a jar of ginger pickles to Muhammad. This shows that the Indians resided in an adjacent area. Furthur writing about the period of the Companions in his book "Al adab al Mufarrad" has stated that once when Aisha (Muhammads's wife) fell ill, her nephews brought a Jat doctor for her treatment. We hear of them next when the Arab armies clashed with the Persian forces which were composed of Jat soldiers as well. The Persian Command Hurmuz used Jat soldiers against Khalid ibn al-Walid in the battle of 'salasal' of 634 A.D (12 hijri). This was the first time that Jats were captured by the Arabs. They put forward certain conditions for joining the Arab armies which were accepted, and on embracing Islam they were associated with different Arab tribes.^[37] This event proves that the first group of people from the Indian subcontinent to accept Islam were Jats who did it as early as 12 hijri (634 A.D) in the time of `Umar ibn al-Khattāb.

The Persian King Yazdgerd III had also sought the help of the Sind ruler who sent Jat soldiers and elephants which were used against the Arabs in the Battle of al-Qādisiyyah .

According to Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (Tabari), Ali ibn Abi Talib A.S had employed Jats to guard Basra treasury during the battle of Jamal. Template:Cquote Amir Muawiya had settled them on the Syrian border to fight against the Romans. It is said that 4,000 Jats of Sind joined Mohammad Bin Qasim's army and fought against Raja Dahir. Sindhi Jats henceforth began to be regularly recruited in the Muslim armies

Further the famous jurist Abu Hanifa was known to be a Jat.  Some of the most famous people in Jurisprudence were jats.

This shows that Mohammed himself was influenced by Jats.

This shows that Mohamed’s wife was treated by Jat Doctors.

This shows that Jatts were a great warrior race that fought the Persians and arabs and were prized by prophets themselves.

This shows that Jats were the most trusted people who guarded the treasury in Basra.

60% of the JATT Qaum is Muslim.

First Prime Minister of Pakistan was Jatt Muslim.

Creators of Pakistan were mostly Jatt Muslim.

Greatest Pakistani Generals mostly Jatt Muslim.

More Jatt Muslims than entire population of Sikhs who are not jatts compared to Muslims who descend from royal races like Jatts, Rajputs, Syeds, Khatri's etc

 

[Guest guest]

22 hours ago, paapiman said:

Do you seriously think that Syeds, Pathans. Lodhis, Afghans and Mughals considered Jatts as a huge threat? More than 700 years of foreign rule and no Jatt leader was able to take over Punjab. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

yes they did,  which is why Guru Gobind Singh asks Aurangzeb not to fear them if he wants to approach him.  no jatt leader WANTED to take over panjab, and they werent united togther either.

[Guest guest]

22 hours ago, paapiman said:

Tyrants (of Jatt origin) have possibly killed hundreds of thousands of Sikhs.

 

based on what?  so you are not majhabi or whatever, you are no doubt still ashamed to admit what you were

[Guest guest]

22 hours ago, paapiman said:

Read Sri Panth Prakash (which is written by a Sikh of Jatt origin).

written for a british agent for the british.  the amount of hatred and spew, you think that is a historical text.

[paapiman]

39 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

yes they did,  which is why Guru Gobind Singh asks Aurangzeb not to fear them if he wants to approach him.  no jatt leader WANTED to take over panjab, and they werent united togther either.

Aurengzeb never feared Jatts. It is very hard to believe that one of the strongest and richest man of his times, would be scared of Jatts (so-called low caste people) who did not even have a sizable kingdom under their control at that time.

There is an incident when some Jatts were guarding Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master).  They all ran away when they heard that Mughals troops were coming. 

Since approximately 1020, no Jatt leader was strong enough to take over entire Punjab, before Sikhism. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

10 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

based on what?  

Gurparsaad, will make a separate topic on the list of all tyrants of Jatt ancestry, who were responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of Sikhs.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest guest]

22 hours ago, paapiman said:

How about we focus on Punjabi Jatts?

Can you please list all Jatt kingdoms in Punjab, before Sikhism?

 

Bhul chul maaf

don't really take a interest in such stuff, but a simple google search would suffice you, e.g.:

In 900 A D a King of this gotra (Balharas) was a powerful ruler in the Western Punjab. He has been greatly praised by historian Sulaiman Nadwi, who came to India as a trader. According to him this ruler was one of the four big rulers of world at that time in 857 A D. He was a friend of the Arabs and his army had a large number of elephants and camels. His country was called Kokan (Kaikan) 'near river Herat. ^[48]

 

you can use your own brain to figure out that- if there were jatt kingdoms in sindh and rajasthan pre-sikh era, why not panjab?

 

you wont find much khatri history pre islam in panjab either, because 'you know who' destroyed everything

 

[Guest guest]

22 hours ago, paapiman said:

Have a look at the topic below. Sikhs (composed of various castes/races) fought two wars with Jatts and easily defeated them.

 

he's writing about his own grandfather, for the british, in that text. yo think that is unbiased?  what a joke.

[Guest guest]

8 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Aurengzeb never feared Jatts. It is very hard to believe that one of the strongest and richest man of his times, would be scared of Jatts (so-called low caste people) who did not even have a sizable kingdom under their control.

There is an incident when some Jatts were guarding Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master).  They all ran away when they heard that Mughals troops were coming. 

No Jatt leader was strong enough to take over entire Punjab, before Sikhism. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

go look in the Dasam Granth, which you are so fond of defending

[Guest guest]

21 hours ago, paapiman said:

Please read below:

Quote

 Almost all the participants whose names are recorded in connection with the battle of Bhangani (i.e. pre-Khalsa period) were non-Jats.34 The first three well-known martyrs from amongst’ the Sikhs, during Guru Tegh Bahadur’s time, were Bhai Mati Das, Bhai Sati Das and Bhai Dyala, all non-Jats. Out of the five Beloved Ones (the Five Pyaras), only one was a Jat, and he too belonged to Hastinapur, outside the Punjab. According to Koer Singh, Guru Gobind Singh said: “Vaisayas, Sudras and Jats I have incorporated in the Panth.”35 Of the twenty five Muktas mentioned by Koer Singh, three were Bhatias, five Khatris, four Aroras, three Lubanas, and two water-carriers.36 The castes of the rest are not given. The forty men at Chamkaur included five Bhatias, four Aroras, some Khatris and Kalals (distillers), two Rangretas (sweeper caste), two Brahmins, Sangat Singh of the Trans-Indus areas, sons of the Guru and the Guru Himself.37 Those who took part in Banda’s campaign, at least in its initial stage, were recruited chiefly from the lower caste Hindus.38 About Sarhind’s conquest by Banda, Irvine writes, ‘The scavengers and leather dressers and such like persons’, who were very numerous among the Sikhs, committed excesses of every description.39

Unquote[1]

[1] - http://sikhinstitute.org/perspective/ch_ii-i.html

 

Bhul chuk maaf

anti-jatt article- the whole purpose of it is to discount the jatt hypothesis by McLeod etc- but he tries to do so with illogical negative proof- "oh there is no evidence of this wasnt true", and low and behold- author doesnt list his name!  

[Guest guest]

15 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Aurengzeb never feared Jatts. It is very hard to believe that one of the strongest and richest man of his times, would be scared of Jatts (so-called low caste people) who did not even have a sizable kingdom under their control.

There is an incident when some Jatts were guarding Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master).  They all ran away when they heard that Mughals troops were coming. 

No Jatt leader was strong enough to take over entire Punjab, before Sikhism. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

mughal nervousness about sikhs started when Guru Arjan Dev strated recruting jatts enmasse, according to western historians, based on the artical you posted above.

the jatts harassed alexander the great and abdali shah etc

[paapiman]

52 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

yes they did,

Bro, read the extract below from Sri Panth Prakash (written by a Sikh of Jatt ancestry). Look at the thoughts of that time, regarding Jatts. They were no match for the mighty Mughals or the Pathans.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest guest]

1 minute ago, paapiman said:

Bro, read the extract below from Panth Prakash (written by a Sikh of Jatt ancestry). Look at thoughts of that time regarding Jatts. They were no match for the mighty Mughals or the Pathans.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

those look like rhetocial questions made to imply the oppsoite.  why dont you post the whole page?

[Guest guest]

24 minutes ago, paapiman said:

 

There is an incident when some Jatts were guarding Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master).  They all ran away when they heard that Mughals troops were coming. 

 

lol very mature comment.  is this an incident narrated amongst your own caste people?

[Guest guest]

http://www.jatland.com/home/The_Jats_-_Their_Role_in_the_Mughal_Empire/Chapter_II

jatt site, but what do you expect?  you can verify the info in the refs at the bottom.