What is Yoga please discuss in details!

[Guest]

I saw that members are interested in discussing Yoga so i'm opening this thread where you can discuss it intelligently.

What we will discuss?

1. What is Yoga?

2. How it works?

3. How can we take advantage of yoga to improve ourselves?

4. Is it against Sikhism?

5. Whats gurus stance on Yoga?

Note: Be sure you don't get into any personal attacks. We all belong to Sikh Gurus and Guru Granth sahib so little differences should not make us enemies of each other.

[jjj]

I saw that members are interested in discussing Yoga so i'm opening this thread where you can discuss it intelligently.

What we will discuss?

1. What is Yoga?

ANSWER : According to the Yogis. Yoga is a technique, method, science designed to meet God. There are several types of Yogas : Kundalini Yoga, Raja Yoga etc. etc. Raja Yoga divided into eight steps. The first steps deal with nama, yiama eg celibacy, fasting, ... poses. Yoga is a technique in which you modify the internal changes of your body and make your mind stable so that you can see God.

2. How it works?

ANSWER : According to my experience. It DOESNT WORK. You can use Yoga for good daily healthful stuff, but it wont take you to God and is not necessary. This is because the positive results to meet God is produced out of Love, Gurbani and Kirtan and this comes naturally by grace, trying to produce them through outside means, techniques, methods like poses, breahtin exericises is all temporary, psuedo and doesnt last.

This is the difference between sehaj yoga(natural path) as taught by Guru Nanak and hatha yoga or raja yoga. In the path of Guru Sahib you get the results from within through Love. In the path of Yoga you get it by force by outwardly means like poses, breathing exercises and these may all be temporarily or even psuedo.

3. How can we take advantage of yoga to improve ourselves?

ANSWER : You can make your health good, have peace of mind.

4. Is it against Sikhism?

ANSWER : No it is not against Sikhism, but Sikhism tells you to rely only and only on God and not on Yoga. You goto be direct with God, bend on your knees and tell him and that "I Love You." instead of being indirect by tryin to do it through Yoga. When there is Love you are higher than Yoga.

5. Whats gurus stance on Yoga?

ANSWER : As far as my knowledge goes Guru Sahib doesnt recommend Yoga at all. Guru Nanak Devji's verses in SGGS which say that Hatha Yoga is harmful for the body and by doing pranayama or poses you are not going to meet God. The best way to meet God is through His Naam and listenning to Guru's command. Guru Sahib has identified Yoga with Naam Jaaping, Kirtan and bhakti. Guru Sahib never made anyone do Hatha Yoga poses, do breathin exercises nor did they themselves do it. Guru Sahib attained God through seva, simran and bhakti and this is what they recommend it to be the Highest.

Note: Be sure you don't get into any personal attacks. We all belong to Sikh Gurus and Guru Granth sahib so little differences should not make us enemies of each other.

[Guest]

Thanks! JJJ and I expect more responses to this thread and discuss Yoga with full details. Lets see what it has in it....

[Guest Javanmard]

Before discussing Yoga it would be nice to know that there are differwnt types of Yoga and that there are different foundational texts for all these techniques.

[Narsingha]

Basic start-off point would be learning Sanskrit, then understand concepts of Pranyaam by going into the Vedic and Puraanic Scriptures, then reading Patanjali's works

..then delving into Haath, Raaj, Bhog and Yudh Yoga in turn

*feels giddy*

[Hari]

Yoga = "to join" "union," there is another word, Yukt, which comes from the same verbal root as Yoga, which is yuj.Yuj = "to join, harness".

So Yoga means "union with Ultimate Reality".

As far as I can remember, the different types of Yoga are:

Hath Yoga, Karm Yoga, Gyan yoga, Raaj Yoga, Kriya Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, Mantra Yoga and Bhakti Yoga.There's a few others I can't recall at the moment.

During the times of the Satguru, Yoga had deteriorated into meaninglessness.I've looked into Yoga, Bhakti Yoga is the best.To submit to Vahiguru, that's the best Yoga.It's too bad my ahankari mind is still stopping me.I've got to tame this monkey some time :evil:

[Narsingha]

Some would argue Raaj Yoga and Yudh Yoga are more applicable to Khalsa maryada? :twisted:

[Guest Javanmard]

There is Rajayoga, expounded in Patanjali's Yogasutras, there is Bhaktiyoga expounded in Narada's Bhaktisutras, there is Jnanayoga expounded in Shankaras's works, there is Kundaliniyga expounded in Kashmiri Agamas and tantras, and there are many many more....

[jjj]

Basic start-off point would be learning Sanskrit, then understand concepts of Pranyaam by going into the Vedic and Puraanic Scriptures, then reading Patanjali's works

..then delving into Haath, Raaj, Bhog and Yudh Yoga in turn

*feels giddy*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Narsingha, who are you? are you some anti-sikh guy? Our Gurus never recommended us doing hatha yoga, pranyama(breathign exercises) and relying on puranic scriptures. Raja yoga is divided into eight steps.. starting from poses (hatha) and pranayama with sitting long hours in meditation.

The best Yoga is Bhakti Yoga (Submitting to Waheguru) and this is the highest. direct. and this is the path of Khalsa !!

[jjj]

There is Rajayoga, expounded in Patanjali's Yogasutras, there is Bhaktiyoga expounded in Narada's Bhaktisutras, there is Jnanayoga expounded in Shankaras's works, there is Kundaliniyga expounded in Kashmiri Agamas and tantras, and there are many many more.

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The biggest satguru is already sggs.. what more you need ?? after taking amrit. the sggs is yoru guru

[Guest]

Yes our guroo's did bhakti yoga. And i think if i m not mistaken baba sri chand ji did hatha yoga (praynaam)!

I have always wonder whats the main difference between bhakti yoga and kundalini yoga??

If both are there to help the person to concentrate on naam abhyaas better. Then why there is conflict within the people.

[jjj]

Yes..Yes... Kundalini Yoga. I hope you had heard of the seven chakras. from the sexual one to the top dasam duar. Kundalini Yoga aims at taking the energy from the sexual chakra tot he top most dasam duaar. For this there are several techniques, but all Yogas have the same basic structure like pranayma, meditation, fasting as preliminary practices and things like that..

so Kundalini Yoga.. they got different ways of taking up this kundalini.

Now why not Yoga?

See in Sikhi we Love God. So if we want something we ask God directly. We take refuge in God. in his kirtan, praises and we surrender to Him. In yoga like kundalini we try to meet Him by doing all sorts of methods techniques... for me it is all outwardly bahana or nakhra .. because its not going to work and the only that will work is **LOVE**

If you want better meditation,concentration then that should come naturally out of love. The more love you have the more concentration and more peace you get. Trying to get it out of yoga is like an outwardly means . Whatever I want.. I will take it from God directly .. by pratharna and not by Yoga, methods of any type of science.

One important thing that someone told me is that on the path of gursikhi a person must walk very very slowly (Sehaj) and if he goes to fast there is possiblity of falling down. So it should be natural and slow and it should come automatically from within and not by force.

In Sikhi u might have all kinds of experiences and visions.. but Gursikhs are only cocnerned with God and are not concerned with any of this miraculous or magical happenings.

[Guest]

Thanks jjj for your feedback.

I m starting kundalini yoga next month. One of the reasons i m starting kundalini is due to lack of concentration while i m doing naam simran. My murshad did it. Because it helps a lot with chakras and stuff. So thats why i want to try it out...One thing i know is to keep balance. That will my main concern is to have balance with yoga, saint and sggs maharaj ji.

Yoga for me is an ladder to get peace of mind(Salvation). And off course its not the only way but i think for me its comfortable.

Kundalini Yoga is also done in sadh-sangat. Which is highly fruitful and bring us more closer and closer to our guroo sahiban's.

[jjj]

N30 Singh, Good for you and good luck. If you want to know more about Yoga you can goto http://www.sivanandadlshq.org These are the actual people who do all these things and they have a FREE BOOK DISTRIBUTION online you can read them. They got some stuff , I mean a lot of stuff on kundalini yoga to and you can see into it.

[Guest Javanmard]

the link you referd to is Swami Shivananda's site. His chele teach REAL Kundalini Yoga. by the way Kundalini Yoga is not for everyone, a serious practicioner of Kundalini should not live in cities, should have a very strict veggie diet within which there are some things he can't eat, absolute chastity etc...

That's waht real Kundalini yoga is about.

[jjj]

by the way Kundalini Yoga is not for everyone, a serious practicioner of Kundalini should not live in cities, should have a very strict veggie diet within which there are some things he can't eat, absolute chastity etc

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Thank You Lalleveshari. As you can see sikhism doesnt believe in the need of absolute castity, a strict veggie diet which excludes eating salt, onions, garlic and not living in cities. Sikhism is a religion of Naam Jaaping in traffic.

[Guest]

Ok guys! I think you got it wrong and let me make it straight. This is not an another propaganda thread to raise issues. This thread has been started to share and describe "YOGA" and I hope you all teach/learn through this thread. This is no way a topic to tell us who is right and wrong. I have posted the points you can discuss and any question/anwser out of our points will be deleted.

Rule: Participate only if you want to share your knowledge or want to discuss it in healthy manners.

[Guest Javanmard]

dear JJJ ,

tell me something I don't know :twisted:

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

I'd say it's very important to recognise that 'Hinduism' seems to have undergone (and is still undergoing) the types of reform Sikhi went through under the influence of British ideology.

Be wary of even famous Hindu groups like Divine Life Society, Swami Chinmayananda, Swami Vivekananda etc. They themselves are the essence of reform, and have been charged with oversimplifying and dangerously distorting yoga. For example, Swami Sivananda taught advait vedanata (non-dualism) yet was noted to have given a very different understanding from the traditional advaitist monasteries and further accused of fundamentalism (referred to by Swami Agehananda Bharati, the sociologist as 'the most grotesque product of the Hindu Renaissance'). Swami Vivekananda created an oversimplified system of four yogas (there are many types of yoga, at least 2 dozen) which led to reported cases of detrimental effects on some practitioners.

I in no way wish to cast doubt on the spiritual status of these Swamis. I do however, wish to warn against the means by which they taught.

[deepspirit]

WOW! What a hot topic! I'd like to clarify some things I said that have been misinterpreted and also to add some info.

First off, I never said that Guru Ram Dasji invented yoga. I said that yoga was an ancient science that was practiced and mastered and exemplified by Guruji.

As has been stated nicely, there are many types of yoga.They all have the same intention, to align the body with the infinite that resides within us. Kundalini works the fastest, and one can retain desired results.

The Siri Singh Sahib Yogi Bhajan should be very closely investigated indeed. Please listen to and read his lectures. You will find him speaking in a way that inspires one to reach to the Guru and to model oneself in God's image. In listening to the SSS lectures, I have made direct references to SGGS. This is all he lectures on, just making it more assessable to those of us who do not have ready access to Gurmukhi. He makes up nothing. Of course, there are those who have slandered and charged him, but if one removes their own ego and listens with an open heart, they will hear the essence of Guruji. He has no intention of being anything more than a man who understands the essence of the infinite and who wants to share that beautiful concept of us as representations of God's infinity. He even refused the granting of sainthood from the akal takhat a few years back. He understands that he is a man, but his vision is to help us achieve the prophecy of 960 million. He is a master of Kundalini yoga since the age of 16, so that is what he teaches. Yoga is a tool, it is not the final destination. Guru is the final destination. THIS is what he teaches. Any confusion is due to our interpretation, not his presentation.

Kundalini yoga is the yoga of awareness. It is a way to heal the body temple. It is a way to manage the householder's life so that we can have the energy to maintain our spiritual and physical lives so that we can merge with Guru. No more, no less. Hatha yoga is very different and so references in the SGGS make sense. Hatha yoga does not have the spiritual componant. Kundalini yoga empties the body as water is emptied from a pitcher. Once the pitcher is emptied, we chant Guru's mantra to fill us with His vibration, thus cleansing the mind, body and engaging our spirit with His.

For those who do know Sanskrit, please do educate us with your research about references to yoga.

I would like to ask, how many who have strong opinions have ever practiced yoga, under the guidance of a trained teacher?

[jjj]

I said that yoga was an ancient science that was practiced and mastered and exemplified by Guruji.

This is completely false. Where have Guru ji practiced sitting in cross-legged holding breaths and doing all sorts of <Admin-cut>? I dont see it. All the Gurus except Guru Nanak became Gurus through seva, like Guru Angad, Guru Amar Das, Guru Ram Das, Guru Arjun Dev. They reflected on Gurbani, Simran and Seva and after the fifth Guru, Guru HarGobind, Guru Har Rai, Guru HarKrishan and Guru Gobind Singh were born ENLIGHTENED from the birth. Guru Tegh Bahadur did it through 25-26 Years of simran.

So to say that the sikh Gurus practiced Yoga, did all the poses, holdign breaths and experimented with kundalini and chakras is completely false. The Gurus ahve again and again said in the SGGS that the only path to God is that of Kirtan. This is the age of singing His praises other than that nothing else gonna work.

I would like to ask, how many who have strong opinions have ever practiced yoga, under the guidance of a trained teacher?

I have. I had practiced pranayama, hatha yoga.. also been into the beginning steps of raja yoga discipline. I have not practiced kundalini yoga as such.. but I have had experiences with kundailni several times. Hatha yoga and pranayama are used as a medium to awaken the kundalini.

My experience is that with yoga you can get all the mystical and extra-odinary experiences, but it wont take you to God. A person who may have no knowledge of Yoga and may have only little love for God and do simran may be 10 minutes a day is more closer to God than someone who wastes 10 hours a day sitting in dhyan and doing Yoga, but has no love.

[jjj]

Please read this shabad below.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

No, no, this is not the time, when people know the way to Yoga and Truth.

The holy places of worship in the world are polluted, and so the world is drowning. ||1||

In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Lord's Name is the most sublime.

.

Some people try to deceive the world by closing their eyes and holding their nostrils closed. ||1||Pause||***

They close off their nostrils with their fingers, and claim to see the three worlds

/// CLOSINT THE EYES AND NOSTRIL IS A YOGIC PRACTICE AND WE CAN SEE CLEARLY THAT THE SATGURU IS TALKING ABOUT THE NAME OF LORD HAS THE HIGHEST WAY. PREMABHAKTI IS THE PATH AND THAT WITHOUT THE NAME OF LORD NO ONE IS LIBERATED.

bin naam har kay mukat naahee kahai naanak daas. ||4||1||6||8||

but without the Lord's Name, no one is liberated; so says Nanak, the Lord's slave. ||4||1||6||8||

Shabad is on page 662-663

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

I won't start a debate on the credentials of Yogi Bhajan; many very well respected people with years of direct experience (MSS Vikram Singh Khalsa, Kamalla Rose Kaur, among many others) have done a very good job of that already.

Could I ask though, deep spirit, do you recognise that he has to some degree created a cult-style group (communal living, dictatorial power structure, personality-worship, arranged marriages, etc) and that doing such a thing will have inevitable negative psychological consequences for certain people?

Yes, I have practiced yoga - hatha yoga. But I feel it is very important to practice something that is I know is authentic (much like my Sikhi) so I'd like to learn from a pre-reform group. There have been numerous articles on the serious damage newly created forms of yoga (Vikram, Ashtanga) are having on the physical health of the practitioners. So I'm personally very wary of learning yoga in the UK without being convinced the teacher knows what they are talking about.

Thankfully I have a contact with an ageing Nath yogi who stays with a family here in the city I live in so I'm off to speak to him pretty soon.

[Guest]

We are not in a position to judge who is truly a Sikh.

Please discuss Yoga, and not whether a certain Jatha is acceptable to be called a Sikh, which was NOT the topic of this discussion.

Any personal attacks directed to a specific person will be edited.

Gurfateh

[Guest]

For All,

I would like to remind everyone that this thread was not started whether you like someone or not but to learn something which came up under "masterbation" thread.

Please, don't be so harsh which is no way sikhism. If it is, then please let me know through PM or open new thread under heading "harsh way of sikhism" so I can learn something new.

Here is what Guru Nanak Dev ji's message. I don't think our Gurus were harsh and hateful?

"This is the quintessence of the Divine discourse, hear thou O Yogi, that without the Name yoga is practiced not. They who are imbued with the Name, remain inebriated night and day. Through the Name attain they the peace. All become renowned through the Name. It is through the Name, that understanding is attained. Without the Name, men wear many religious garbs and them the True Lord has Himself strayed. From the True Guru, the Name is attained, O Yogi and then one comes to know the way of Yoga. Reflect thou in thy mind and see that without the Name, one is emancipated not, O Nanak." (Guru Nanak, Siddh Gosh, pg. 946)

"Be assured that fruitless are his Yogic practices and sacrificial feasts, who forgets the Lord's praise. He who laying aside both his self-conceit and worldly love sings the praise of the Lord, Says Nanak, the mortal of such a type is said to have obtained emancipation whilst alive." (Guru Tegh Bahadur, Bilawal, pg. 831)

Note: This thread is to discuss Yoga with open mind and if you don't carry one then please don't take part in this discussion. If you want to share your knowledge or want to show the right way then feel free to do so but slandering, hate towards specific org is not ALLOWED. This discussion is allowed as far as someone doesn't force his views on others.