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What is Yoga please discuss in details!

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okay lets get this right, what exactly does kundalini yoga practice consists of ???

holding breaths? doing all kinds of poses? fasting, observing brahmacharya !

let us also discuss what is the path that our Gurus set for us to meet God... was it about doing all kinds of poses, holding breaths and doing deep meditation or was it the path of Jaaping Naam, Kirtan and seva?

The two are different. One path takes refuge in the Lord and another path takes refuge in the system of yoga, techniques that one might think may elevate him to the God-level.

Lets discuss this first. Later I will post from the SGGS , of what the supreme path in kali yuga is .

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Gurfateh

I absolutely don't wish to slander 3HO Sikhs. I have the UTMOST respect for 3HO Sikhs who take so much crap in day to day life in the US for their Sikhi. I also have a huge amount respect for Shivcharan Singh ji UK wale.

I was simply responding to Deepspirit's description of YB. However I would be failing myself if i didn't present my views and concerns about the internal organisation of 3HO. I in no way wish to demean 3HO Sikhs contribution to the panth. Bless their little white cotton socks.

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Guest Javanmard

It's not a question of slander I think but it's about being critical. The attitude of 3HO Sikhs is problematic. Many Panjabi SIkhs look at them with some kind of admiation out of their colonial guilt as in: They're better SIkhs than us. Maybe some 3HO people have a better personality than some Panjabis but what we question here is their SIkhi, not their devotion or enthousiasm. The place Yogi Bhajan assumes amongst them is on the verge of blasphemy. They're not very learned in classical Indian culture or even Panjabi culture, the notion of parampara does not exist for them nor does raag kirtan. Their kundalini yoga is made up and so is their "new age aquarius" bana and their maryada. Yogi Bhajan does not have a proper parampara.

Despite all these things they go around Panjab teaching Panjabi SIkhs how to be "proper" SIkhs when they can't even pronounce Panjabi properly!

SIkhs in India have written their history with blood

Yogi Bhajan and his lot have written theirs with dollars

God will decide!

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Guest

lalleshvari... i agree with u to some extent... but i think its wrong to tarnish all of them because u may not like harbhajan singh... whoever comes to him comes to learn - and is it their fault if they are misled in the way to recite gurbani?.... i sympathise with gorey.kaley. converts because its very very hard to give up ur previous life to follow a tottally new religion which has a tottally new language/culture/traditions/heritage etc i have upmost respect for any gursikh no matter where they came from - learning a new language is hard esspecially if you have no relationship or link with its origin - so pronunciation errors will occur... no one is perfect.. and everyone aims to improve themselves

i agree if they are being taught wrong then they will be doing wrong.. i personally dont know much about harbhajan singh... would u mind sharing with us why u have a bad viewpoint on him.. thanx :D

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Guest Javanmard

Sorry Steel Bangle but it's too easy. Ignorance is a sin! Iammanuel Kant has shown that we fall in traps because we want to. If people can't develop their aqal (reasoning) regarding spiritual teachers then they are as guilty as the teacher.

I am not against converts but I have got something against 3HO as an organisation, some 3HO people for their self-perpetuating blindness and Yogi Bhajan for being an impostor!

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All,

I think we all missed the point of this discussion. We all need to go with the topic. Topic is for Yoga and message of Sikhism. Just see where are we taking it? You can start new thread, if you really want to discuss 3HO and we have no problem with it BUT its not good to turn good topic into blaming contest. We are not in favour or against anyone through this site. If you want to discuss 3HO then feel free to discuss them but this topic is for Yoga which I have no knowledge about although our whole intention is to learn. If Yoga harms us then feel free to discuss it but bringing names into discussion will take it towards something else and we all going to end up swearing at each other.

If you want to turn this discussion into name calling then feel free to do so but I would like to say this that at the end you won't get anything but this thread will be closed without any fruitful results.

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Sikhism is not against Yoga. You can do Yoga to enhance your spiritual life, but Yoga, but Yoga alone cannot take you to almighty.

Gurbani can make the dead alive , sustain the Sikh without food and water...so obviously Gurbani, Naam Simran is higher.

If we find the self getting to much to handle or something that we cant control, nothing is more powerful than a humble ardaas !

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Please learn more about what yr writing about...yog literally means that which gets you to the experience of parmatma! Therefore, there are lots of types of yog. Sikhi is a type of yog (surat shabad yog, incorperating jnan and bhakti), what you're talking about is ashtangyoga or more specifically the aasana elements of it. Go read wikipedia or something.

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Gurbani can make the dead alive , sustain the Sikh without food and water...so obviously Gurbani, Naam Simran is higher.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do Sikhs, including those who are regarded by many here and elsewhere to be "brahmgyanis" or having "high avasthas" etc (I won't ask that we discuss right now what qualifies those who dish out such titles to actually award the said inviduals with such merits, but that would be an interesting discussion) still eat food and drink water and ultimately die?

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in baba harnam singh ji rampur khera's jeevan sakhi, we have an incident narrated where baba ji didn't eat or drink anything for a long period of time, if memory serves it was either one month or 40 days. he was sealed in a cave, when he came out he had not lost even one pound of weight.

he had done this to test a shabd that claimed Gurbani was food and water.

I believe bhramgyani's eat and drink in order to avoid attracting too much attention to themselves. Like Bhai Gurdass ji says, even when powerful, they act weak. IT may also be that they choose to not waste kamai on things like this when they could just use that to advance spiritually - but that's just a guess on my part.

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Niranjana, they eat for the same reasons that Maharaj Ji ate food etc. While in a human body, they (Mahapursh) follow the Maryada (can't think of a better word) that comes with it, everything is done in Waheguru's hukam. Also, showing kara-mat for no reason is not what Sikhi is about.

People don't think about why Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought battles and went through such hardships for us. They could have used karamat but showed us what is expected of us, by setting an example.

Saying that, there are several examples of Mahapursh demonstrating that even death is in their control:

Sant Karam Singh Ji (Hoti Mardan) announced to the Sangat that they had 8 days to live. The Sangat got together and did an ardas then sent a Sewadar to ask Baba Ji to extend their time. After repeated requests, they told the Sewadar that he had 2years 8 days remaining and asked if he was willing to 'swap' this for the 8 days that they (Baba Ji) had. The sewadar agreed and died exactly 8 days later. Baba Ji left their sareer exactly 2 years later. This was witnessed by a large number of the Sangat at that time.

Sant Isher Singh Ji (Rarasahib wale) wrote, in their diary, how long they had left in that sareer. This was 10 years before they left the sareer. In their final year, as the day approached, they announced to Pritam Singh, who is still alive in Canada, that they are extending their time here by 30 days.

So while these things are not impossible, Brahmgyanis, as Maharaj Ji did, lead by example. What would be achieved and what lesson taught by not eating? Gurbani clearly states what is possible for a Gursikh, but only a handful ever reach that level.

Anyway, this is way off topic now. I suspect your reason for asking this question is to ask W-bol why anyone needs to do anything at all.

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I suspect your reason for asking this question is to ask W-bol why anyone needs to do anything at all.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something to that effect, would be interesting to hear what he has to say.

As per the above mentioned Sants using what is now being described as "Karamat" to "test Gurbani" or "meet the wishes of the Sangat", what exactly provided them with the due sanction to perform "Kaamat" when even the Gurus as you have pointed out never did so, even at the consequence of being beheaded.

But, like you say, this is another question for another topic...w-bol, I believe your answer has been covered by TSingh.

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Niranjana, there are plenty of examples of the Gurus performing miracles. As i stated, they only act in Akaals hukam. In essence, there is no difference between a true Sant and God, as Gurbani clearly states. (apologies in advance if this causes controversy, and for going waaay off-topic)

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It would take too many pages....

but here are a few anyway:

Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Mecca, in Baghdad (the Sakhi with the Pir's son), Punja Sahib, Turning bitter fruit sweet etc etc.

I know you're familiar with Suraj Parkash, Bhai Gurdas' Varan, Janam Sakhis etc. yet you ask me......

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What exactly within Bhai Gurdas Ji's Varan would you constitute as an act of "Karamat"?

Yes, I am familiar with Suraj Prakash and Janam Sakhis, however that doesn't mean I subscribe to their each and every view.

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This Shabad is by Bhai Gurdaas Ji in Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 1

puCy pIr qkrwr kr eyh PkIr vfw AwqweI]

pushhae peer thakaraar kar eaeh fakeer vaddaa aathaaee||

The pir dabated and came to know that this faquir is much more powerful.

eyQy ivc bgdwd dy vfI krwmwq idKlweI]

eaethhae vich bagadhaadh dhae vaddee karaamaath dhikhalaaee||

Here in Baghdad he has shown a great miracle.

pwqwlW AwkwS lK EVk BwlI Kbr su sweI]

paathaalaa(n) aakaash lakh ourrak bhaalee khabar s saaee||

Meanwhile he (Baba Nanak) talked about myriads of netherworlds and skies.

Pyr durwiex dsqgIr AsI iB vyKW jo quih pweI]

faer dhuraaein dhasathageer asee bh vaekhaa(n) jo thuhi paaee||

Pir Dastegir asked (the Baba) to show him whatever he had seen.

nwl lIqw bytw pIr dw AKIN mIt igAw hvweI]

naal leethaa baettaa peer dhaa akhee(n) meett giaa havaaee||

Guru Nanak Dev taking along with him the son of the pir, melted into thin air.

lK AkwS pqwl lK AK Purk ivc sB idKlweI]

lakh akaash pathaal lakh akh furak vich sabh dhikhalaaee||

And in a wink of eye visualized him the upper and lower worlds.

Br kckOl pRSwd dw DuroN pqwloN leI kVweI]

bhar kachakaal prashaadh dhaa dhhuro(n) pathaalo(n) lee karraaee||

From the nether world he brought a bowl full of sacred food and handed it over to pir.

zwhr klw n CpY CpweI ]óö]

zaahar kalaa n shhapai shhapaaee ||aa||

This manifest power (of the Guru) cannot be made to hide.

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Thanks Xylitol.

As a side note, I would argue that the above translation has many issues with it, for instance:

lakh akaash pathaal lakh akh furak vich sabh dhikhalaaee||

And in a wink of eye visualized him the upper and lower worlds.

The English translation incorrectly translates Akaash Pathaal as ‘upper and lower worlds’. Punjabi sateeks however translate Akaash as sky and Pathaal as earth.

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Gurbani can make the dead alive , sustain the Sikh without food and water...so obviously Gurbani, Naam Simran is higher.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do Sikhs, including those who are regarded by many here and elsewhere to be "brahmgyanis" or having "high avasthas" etc (I won't ask that we discuss right now what qualifies those who dish out such titles to actually award the said inviduals with such merits, but that would be an interesting discussion) still eat food and drink water and ultimately die?

Actually gurbani talks how one can sustain from food and water.

Thithai uvavh Na Bhuk Hai, Mann Charya Dasamaie Akash ||

When mind(surati) resides in dasam dvar there is no hunger there.

I dont have the ang number because i got this tuk from the katha of japji sahib by gyani thakur singh ji .

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Thithai uvavh Na Bhuk Hai, Mann Charya Dasamaie Akash ||

When mind(surati) resides in dasam dvar there is no hunger there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neo,

Is the reference to "hunger" (bhuk) in the above quote refer to physical hunger or in its possible more appropriate context hunger within the mind (desires)?

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Thithai uvavh Na Bhuk Hai, Mann Charya Dasamaie Akash ||

When mind(surati) resides in dasam dvar there is no hunger there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neo,

Is the reference to "hunger" (bhuk) in the above quote refer to physical hunger or in its possible more appropriate context hunger within the mind (desires)?

interesting take on this, never thought of it that way. However in my opnion both interpretations are correct. Gurbani cannot be bound to only one interpertations especially when there is three context how gurbani is interpertated - 1) vikharayan 2) Uthanka 3) Adhyatamic arths.

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However in my opnion both interpretations are correct. Gurbani cannot be bound to only one interpertations especially when there is three context how gurbani is interpertated - 1) vikharayan 2) Uthanka 3) Adhyatamic arths.

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I don't believe we are seeking to confine Gurbani in anyway, however by the same token, I do have an issue with the practice of 1001 different arths of a single line of Gurbani (which appears in many cases to be little more than aping the habits of Pandits from yesteryears) just as I do with the Prof Sahib Singh "1 line 1 meaning" analysis.

That aside, the question still stands, the type of commentary made here on this thread is not too different from what one gets to hear in Gurdwaras, where every parcharak likes to focus on "magical" stories concerning the Gurus and the Singhs of old, which frankly reduces the subject matter to fairy tales in most cases.

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but don't you feel the example of baba harnam singh ji actually shows this gurbani tuk's practical effect? that it's an example showing people the bani is true?

although i do agree, that sometimes over-focus on riddh sidh does reduce it. sometimes.

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