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Bhangra/Gidha Vs Sikhism


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On 5/22/2018 at 3:59 PM, Soulfinder said:

bhangra, parties,dancing and bollywood

Certainly the way these things are normally done, is not spiritual.

But you can certainly do it in a spiritual way.

E.g. Bollywood - normally puts out BS movies but sometimes you get movies like Oh My God.

 

You must ask yourself -

In what way would a Brahmgyani perform Bhangra?

In what way would a Brahmgyani host a Party?

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9 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

But you can certainly do it in a spiritual way.

E.g. Bollywood - normally puts out BS movies but sometimes you get movies like Oh My God.

 

Veer ji 99.5% of all the movies made in bollywood & hollywood tv serials etc are based just on kaam and krodh there is nothing related to bhagati simran in them.

Its really rare for movies like Oh My God to be made.

 

Also i have posted the side effects of tv on bhagati on this thread.

 

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9 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

You must ask yourself -

In what way would a Brahmgyani perform Bhangra?

In what way would a Brahmgyani host a Party?

Veer ji a Puran Brahmgyani would never ever host any of the above mentioned events as they are 100% against gurmat which a mahapursh would never ever promote or think about it. 

 

In reply of this i have a saakhi from Sant Baba Harnam Singh Ji Rampurkhera Wale jeevani about a amritdhari singh who hosted a wedding party with meat from live animals in a pind and what happened afterwoods to him.

 

If you want or anyone here i can put it on here or a seperate new thread based on it.

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7 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

Veer ji 99.5% of all the movies made in bollywood & hollywood tv serials etc are based just on kaam and krodh there is nothing related to bhagati simran in them.

Its really rare for movies like Oh My God to be made.

I agree.

Most of the content in the world, most of youtube, facebook, other social media, film industry, art industry, music industry, most of it is all low vibration material (vibration that is attachment to material objects).

It is generally not advisable for a gursikh to indulge in this content.

7 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

Veer ji a Puran Brahmgyani would never ever host any of the above mentioned events as they are 100% against gurmat which a mahapursh would never ever promote or think about it. 

The Music industry is full of bad quality and low vibration songs.

This was also true at the time of the Gurus.

However the circumstance, Guru Sahibs did compose Music and Shabads for inducing high vibration (vibration that is of spiritual nature).

 

Maybe you don't know how a Brahmgyani might host a Brahm-oriented party or how he might dance to the tune of Akal Purakh sahib.

But believe me a Brahmgyani can do these things in a high vibration.

As one does bhagti and simran, and develops higher states.

As one develops those qualities of the Brahmgyani in themself, they will start doing things in high-vibration , which they previously did in low-vibration.

Even everyday activities like driving, talking, washing, etc get transformed into a high-vibration spiritual dance when the mind is attuned to the feet of Akal Purakh sahib.

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3 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Maybe you don't know how a Brahmgyani might host a Brahm-oriented party or how he might dance to the tune of Akal Purakh sahib.

But believe me a Brahmgyani can do these things in a high vibration.

I have heard that all Mahapursh do satsang and kirtain darbars like Baba Harnam Singh Ji Rampurkhera Wale used to do Naam Abiyass Kaam Samgam every year to help sangat and many respected mahapurshs like Sant Kartar Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale were invited to these samgams as i have read in their jeevani.

 

Also a Brahmgyani is like a magnet for other mahapurshs as i have a group photo of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawale with many other Sants when they formed Sant Samaj back in the 60s.

 

Mahapurshs get anand ras in kirtain and simran and thats why Baba Isher Singh Ji Rare wale did kirtain to unite people with Sikhi.

 

I can give many examples related to this.

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3 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

But believe me a Brahmgyani can do these things in a high vibration.

As one does bhagti and simran, and develops higher states.

As one develops those qualities of the Brahmgyani in themself, they will start doing things in high-vibration , which they previously did in low-vibration.

Even everyday activities like driving, talking, washing, etc get transformed into a high-vibration spiritual dance when the mind is attuned to the feet of Akal Purakh sahib.

Never ever estimate the power of a Brahmgyani as the 8th,13th sukhmani sahib ashtpadi talk about the power and the nidha slander of a sant.

 

The eyes of a puran mahapursh and bachan have a lot of powerful shakti that even a sant's nazar has soo much shakti that i can give examples from saakhis i have heard and read. 

 

Finally a Sadhus bachan is atal which no power can ever change.

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Brahmgyan is the MANN, not the body.  It's mann's avastha.

Music is sacred and originates from the raags that come from various notes of naad (Waheguru's voice). True, music can be polluted in many ways with it's association and lyrics. But the mool and origins of saroop can never be polluted and one can connect to these higher vibrations of satch's voice at some lower avasthas than brahmgyan.

 

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7 hours ago, Lucky said:

Brahmgyan is the MANN, not the body.  It's mann's avastha.

Music is sacred and originates from the raags that come various notes of naad (Waheguru's voice). True, music can be polluted in many ways with it's association and lyrics. But the mool and origins of saroop can never be polluted and one can connect to these higher vibrations of satch's voice at some lower avasthas than brahmgyan.

The same is true of Dance, it is sacred and it comes from the vibrations of Waheguru, who is known as Shrirang, the one who dances with Maya.

It through his dace, that the universe came to be. It is through his dance, that life continues. It is through his dance that it will all cease one day.

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16 hours ago, amardeep said:

Here is a beautiful tuk

Page 1383, Line 18
ਫਰੀਦਾ ਦੁਨੀ ਵਜਾਈ ਵਜਦੀ ਤੂੰ ਭੀ ਵਜਹਿ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
Fareed, the world dances as it dances, and you dance with it as well.
Guru Arjan Dev  

Thanks for bringing this verse up. This verse can actually be used to prove that dancing is prohibited in Sikhism.

The above tuk is not said in a positive sense. It is similar to saying, "the whole world is engrossed in maya and so are you".

The next verse will make it more clear.

ਸੋਈ ਜੀਉ ਨ ਵਜਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਅਲਹੁ ਕਰਦਾ ਸਾਰ ॥੧੧੦॥

That soul (or person) alone does not dance with it, who is under the care of the Lord God. ||110||

Let's look into more sources*:

* - This might go a bit off-topic, but it would be good to understand the above verse in details, as it has come up in this discussion.

 

1. Bhai Manmohan Singh jee:

Farid! The world dances as the devil makes it dance and thou too are playing with it;

that person alone dances not, who is under the Lord's care.

 

2. Amir Bhandar Teeka (Interesting footnote from Saarkutavali):

image.png.b9749c843535720f5e815097c9d1492e.png

image.png.ab378bdf1a2bfa39df03278c15f29a0a.png

 

3. Prof. Sahib Singh jee:

image.thumb.png.b2f4bdbc5f690125102a8f5f267516fa.png

 

4. Gurbani Arth Bhandar:

image.thumb.png.a779326d625c186062ad88760cdd0f2d.png

image.thumb.png.7c939ad440f754ffc70a217da2651034.png

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 5/22/2018 at 8:39 AM, BhagatSingh said:

You believe that Bhangra and Dance, in general, is prohibited in Guru Granth Sahib, and I assume Bhangra and Dance is not part of your Spiritual Practice.

So that's why I say that this is a - narrower perspective to say that spiritual practices other than my own (naam simaran) cannot bring you closer to Waheguru ji.

Daas has already answered your concern above. Examples were also provided.

Daas does not believe that spiritual practices other than the ones approved in Gurmat, cannot bring you closer to Waheguru jee. They might, but Sikhs must refrain from following them. Dancing is one of them.

Narrower perspective is to say "my way or the highway". One can believe that some practice is good for a person, without actually following it or encouraging it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Daas has already answered your concern above. Examples were also provided.

Daas does not believe that spiritual practices other than the ones approved in Gurmat, cannot bring you closer to Waheguru jee. They might, but Sikhs must refrain from following them. Dancing is one of them.

Narrower perspective is to say "my way or the highway". One can believe that some practice is good for a person, without actually following it or encouraging it. 

Thanks for clarifying but I understood you the first time.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my post but my comment was from within the perspective of Gurmati.

From within the Gurmati perspective, it would be narrow to claim that Dancing is prohibited.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

They might, but Sikhs must refrain from following them. Dancing is one of them. 

Please respond to the remainder of my post where I address the issue of prohibitive practices.

Read from -

As for practices that are prohibited in Guru Granth Sahib -

I mean there are certain practices like that.

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There is an injunction in one of the Rehatnamas, which prohibit a Sikh from dancing (which would include Bhangra, Gidha, etc).

It goes something like this - "Sikh hovai so nachay so tankheeyaa" (A Sikh, who dances, is eligible for punishment).

Can anyone please pinpoint the exact source of it?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 5/22/2018 at 8:39 AM, BhagatSingh said:

I would say Dancing is not something that is discouraged in Guru Granth Sahib.

The verses you put forth so far do not discourage it at all.

Ang 158

ਨਚਿਐ ਟਪਿਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

By dancing and jumping Lord's worship is not performed.

Also, we have the bachan from a Rehatnama prohibiting dancing. This info (along with the rest provided in this thread) is more than enough to prove that dancing is highly discouraged in Sikhism.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Ang 158

ਨਚਿਐ ਟਪਿਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

By dancing and jumping Lord's worship is not performed.

Also, we have the bachan from a Rehatnama prohibiting dancing. This info (along with the rest provided in this thread) is more than enough to prove that dancing is highly discouraged in Sikhism.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

People who do Bhangra doesn’t claim it’s an act of worshiping god. So they would probably agree with this verse and continue their dance 

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1 hour ago, amardeep said:

People who do Bhangra doesn’t claim it’s an act of worshiping god. So they would probably agree with this verse and continue their dance 

Actually you can do Bhagti while dancing or doing bhangra.

While you are performing the steps, your mind is free to do naam simaran.

So what about ਨਚਿਐ ਟਪਿਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥?

This verse is referring to the Monkey mind.

The dancing mind, meaning the mind that is moving from one thought form to the next, cannot do Bhagti.

We know this is referring to the mind, because right in the next tuk it says -

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥

When you kill your mind in the Anhad Shabad then Bhagti is obtained.

@Lucky knows all about how to die in the Anhad Shabad. He posts about it in meditation experience thread.

 

@paapiman

@Soulfinder

@dalsingh101

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1 hour ago, amardeep said:

People who do Bhangra doesn’t claim it’s an act of worshiping god. So they would probably agree with this verse and continue their dance 

But it is possible that many who do Bhangra will claim that it is not against Sikhism. That is the problem. Sikhism highly discourages dancing. It doesn't matter if it's done for recreational purposes or for spiritual purposes.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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14 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Actually you can do Bhagti while dancing or doing bhangra.

Please provide name of any Mahapurakh/Sant (Sikh one) who has stated this or encouraged this. In the op, Sant Jarnail Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale termed Bhangra as Neechpuna.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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50 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Actually you can do Bhagti while dancing or doing bhangra.

While you are performing the steps, your mind is free to do naam simaran.

So what about ਨਚਿਐ ਟਪਿਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥?

This verse is referring to the Monkey mind.

The dancing mind, meaning the mind that is moving from one thought form to the next, cannot do Bhagti.

We know this is referring to the mind, because right in the next tuk it says -

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥

When you kill your mind in the Anhad Shabad then Bhagti is obtained.

@Lucky knows all about how to die in the Anhad Shabad. He posts about it in meditation experience thread.

 

@paapiman

@Soulfinder

@dalsingh101

Talking of monkeys and dancing i have quickly did a search on it and i will try to add a lot more when i found referrences or panktis to the subject.

 

But in the meantime here is a video by Veer Jagraj Singh Basics of Sikhi as you mentioned dancing and monkeys.

 

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On 5/27/2018 at 1:50 AM, paapiman said:

There is an injunction in one of the Rehatnamas, which prohibit a Sikh from dancing (which would include Bhangra, Gidha, etc).

It goes something like this - "Sikh hovai so nachay so tankheeyaa" (A Sikh, who dances, is eligible for punishment).

Can anyone please pinpoint the exact source of it?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Here it is (This will clearly apply to Bhangra/Gidha, etc):

Quote

A Gursikh should not sing worldly songs, nor should he dance

Unquote[1]

[1] - https://www.allaboutsikhs.com/sikh-rehat-maryada/chaupa-singh-rahit-nama-v15-2080

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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1 hour ago, BhagatSingh said:

Actually you can do Bhagti while dancing or doing bhangra.

While you are performing the steps, your mind is free to do naam simaran.

So what about ਨਚਿਐ ਟਪਿਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥?

This verse is referring to the Monkey mind.

The dancing mind, meaning the mind that is moving from one thought form to the next, cannot do Bhagti.

We know this is referring to the mind, because right in the next tuk it says -

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥

When you kill your mind in the Anhad Shabad then Bhagti is obtained.

@Lucky knows all about how to die in the Anhad Shabad. He posts about it in meditation experience thread.

 

@paapiman

@Soulfinder

 

 

I just think you twist sh*t up to fit some preconceived perceptions myself. We all do this, but the way you go on, is like you aren't aware of this.

How comes you're such a big expert on these deeper than deep topics?  

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@dalsingh101

That's not an argument.

18 hours ago, paapiman said:

Please provide name of any Mahapurakh/Sant (Sikh one) who has stated this or encouraged this. In the op, Sant Jarnail Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale termed Bhangra as Neechpuna.

And neither is this.

18 hours ago, paapiman said:

Sikhism highly discourages dancing. It doesn't matter if it's done for recreational purposes or for spiritual purposes.

Gatka as it is performed in nagar kirtans is also a dance form.

17 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

But in the meantime here is a video by Veer Jagraj Singh Basics of Sikhi as you mentioned dancing and monkeys. 

What bhai sahib is talking about exists in the body also.

The 5 thieves and thought forms which pull us  in different directions also have bodily  components.

This is because we are embodied souls.

The 5 Thieves are self-preservation tactic of the body.

So to orient the body and have it dance in tune with the order of Akal Purakh sahib is key.

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1 hour ago, BhagatSingh said:

And neither is this.

Take it as a question. Answer - yes or no. If yes, please provide details. Hope that makes sense.

"Please provide name of any Mahapurakh/Sant (Sikh one) who has stated this or encouraged this. In the op, Sant Jarnail Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale termed Bhangra as Neechpuna."

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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3 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

That's not an argument.

It wasn't meant to be. It was statement of fact. 

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