Viewing Husband as God (with evidence)

[paapiman]

I really want to know, which guy on here has a wife or expects their wife to worship them?

Most likely, none. A person who expects to be worshiped (as God) by anyone is definitely going to hell and probably receive some severe punishments. The onus is on Sikh women to uphold this Sikh principle.

Similarly, in a mother-child relationship, it is the duty of the child to respect his mother as a Guru and bow to her. A Sikh mother will never expect her child to worship her as a Guru or God.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[CdnSikhGirl]

Paapiman you once told me that the instruction for "Gurmukhs" to see the divine light in ALL, is actually for just Brahamgyanis, because you said it's impossible for us as humans to see the divine light in everyone. Yet very contradictory to the previous, you are supporting the commandment of women to do this very thing with their husbands... So unless you think of all women as being Brahamgyanis (and it obvious you don't since you don't even see women as fully humans and see us as a 'downgrade' to males) I don't see how you can explain yourself out of this one.

You are expecting women to do something you yourself say is only possible if you are a Bahamgyani, by seeing their husband AS God. Why would our Gurus command women to do something which is impossible??

Why do you think it's so difficult for you to see God in women - but you expect women to see God in males, nay, not only see God IN males, but see males AS God???  How can you ever expect a woman to see a man (her husband) AS God, when you say that same man is not even capable of living the qualities of what is commanded of a "Gurmukh" in Gurbani (what you say is a Brahamgyani) let alone living the qualities of our actual creator... ???  
"As Gurmukh, look upon ALL with a single eye of equality, for in EACH AND EVERY heart the divine light is contained" 

If her husband can not even follow the above command issued to all Gurmukhs by seeing the divine light equally in his wife (who is most definitely a part of the ALL) then how can you support commanding her to see him AS God - which is commanding her to follow an instruction you say is only possible for a "Brahamgyani"?? (btw Gurmukh means TRUE Sikh following Gurbani and living by it, not a Brahamgyani) - but I digress...

And even if a woman does see God in her husband, it certainly does NOT mean she must obey him or that she is his servant or subordinate.
And perhaps most importantly - It does NOT mean that she is any less God than he is!!!!!  You ignore this one truth...whether or not YOU personally see it: It doesn't change the fact that in reality God is in ALL equally - as we can see in the above quoted line from Gurbani (and many others as well). So whether or not the husband sees it in his wife too, the divine light is in her EQUALLY to him regardless. They are on equal level as Divine.

A loving and TRUE Gurmukh husband would recognize God in his wife equally.  And if he doesn't, then he really is not living the qualities of a Gurmukh, let alone God! 

A True Gurmukh husband would look upon his wife as God as well. 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[Ragmaala]

I do not want my wife to worship me .

But one thing that I do want is that she stays faithful and chaste in marriage, and is good in imparting Sikh values to kids.

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

I do not want my wife to worship me .

But one thing that I do want is that she stays faithful and chaste in marriage, and is good in imparting Sikh values to kids.

 

We all want this of our spouse... that they are faithful. I don't know any husband that wants their wife chaste (as that means they are not having physical relationship at all) but I think you meant 'monogamous' which means only with each other :) 

Ragmaala please quote my above post... (or someone) because Paapiman never responds to my posts, I think he has me blocked so I don't think he will see that and I really want him to respond! 

[Lucky]

A True Gurmukh husband would look upon his wife as God as well. 

 

A true gurmukh sees GOD in every one and every thing...........Sabh Gobind hai, Gobind bin na koyee

 

[Lucky]

Most likely, none. A person who expects to be worshiped (as God) by anyone is definitely going to hell and probably receive some severe punishments. The onus is on Sikh women to uphold this Sikh principle.

Similarly, in a mother-child relationship, it is the duty of the child to respect his mother as a Guru and bow to her. A Sikh mother will never expect her child to worship her as a Guru or God.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

OK, so you are in effect saying that Men have a different role in this world than women ?

Meaning, that women have an EXTRA duty to worship their husband ? and husband has a non-respecting/sit-back/easy ride ??........isn't that islam ???

How does this really make sense to you ?...

[paapiman]

OK, so you are in effect saying that Men have a different role in this world than women ?

Meaning, that women have an EXTRA duty to worship their husband ? and husband has a non-respecting/sit-back/easy ride ??........isn't that islam ???

How does this really make sense to you ?...

Paaji, Islam does not have the concept of Pati Parmeshwar.

Bhul chuk maaf

[Lucky]

what's the soul bride ?

 

[Lucky]

Paaji, Islam does not have the concept of Pati Parmeshwar.

Bhul chuk maaf

If what you understand by pati parmeshwar is about wife worshipping husband, then what do you understand about sabh gobind hai ?

Do you think gurbani contradicts itself ?.....because that is what it sounds like.

Don't you think that you should try and understand or see gurbani so that there are no contradictions ?

 

[paapiman]

If what you understand by pati parmeshwar is about wife worshipping husband, then what do you understand about sabh gobind hai ?

Do you think gurbani contradicts itself ?.....because that is what it sounds like.

Don't you think that you should try and understand or see gurbani so that there are no contradictions ?

 

Bro, Gurbani has no contradictions, but not all interpretations of Gurbani verses will apply to all people (who are at varying points in the spiritual ladder). It is so simple to understand. Gurbani can talk about the merits and demerits of an object. Does that mean, Gurbani is contradicting itself? - No. One can learn from both, the pros and cons of a single object/concept.

"Sabh Gobind hai" - is a fact, but it does not apply to a person like me. Daas understands the concept a bit, but I cannot see God in all.  What do you want me to do? What will you do, if a rat comes into your house? Will you see God in him and do his seva or try to kill/get rid of him? Daas will try to get rid of it, by any means.

If a wife is told to look upon her husband as God. How is that contradicting with "Sabh Gobind hai"?

• The instruction to a wife is to an ordinary woman
• "Sabh Gobind hai" - applies to a Brahamgyani

When Baba Ghaniya jee was serving water to the enemies (while other Singhs were killing them), he was not just applying the Gurmat principle of "Sabh Gobind hai", but he was actually physically seeing Satguru jee in them. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited October 18, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

If what you understand by pati parmeshwar is about wife worshipping husband, then what do you understand about sabh gobind hai ?

Do you think gurbani contradicts itself ?.....because that is what it sounds like.

Don't you think that you should try and understand or see gurbani so that there are no contradictions ?

 

Paaji, it is possible that a person can claim that the below two arths, are contradicting each other.

 

ਧਨਿ ਧਨਿ ਤੂ ਮਾਤਾ ਦੇਵਕੀ ॥

Blessed, blessed are you, O mother Dayvakee;

ਜਿਹ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਰਮਈਆ ਕਵਲਾਪਤੀ ॥੨॥

into your home the Lord was born. ||2||

 

Quote (N30 paaji)

Blessed blessed mother devki (dwelling place -five elemental- body, mind)

in its home- surat ( consciousness/awareness) has awaken to itself, came to being. 

Uthanka arth is dedicated to krishan maharaj sargun saroop.

Unquote

 

How come Gurbani is praising Lord Krishna (a demi-God), and praising the Almighty God using the same verses?

The answer to this lies in the Uthanka of the Shabad. A devotee of Lord Krishna had requested Bhagat jee to praise him. Bhagat jee accepted his request. He recited the verses to make him happy, but also made sure that the verses reflect Gurmat Sidhant. Two different interpretations, depending on the spiritual level.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

 

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

A true gurmukh sees GOD in every one and every thing...........Sabh Gobind hai, Gobind bin na koyee

 

that was my point. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

 

• The instruction to a wife is to an ordinary woman
• "Sabh Gobind hai" - applies to a Brahamgyani

 

 

1 It goes without saying at this point - ALL of us are to see God in ALL. This is not instruction for a Brahamgyani, but to ALL Gurmukhs.  To ALL Sikhs.

2 You say you are unable to see God in ALL and that only a Brahamgyani is capable to do so.

3 But then you command women to do the very thing you say is impossible for anyone but a Brahamgyani by seeing God in her husband, not only seeing God IN her husband, but seeing her Husband AS God (which btw no human should ever have this title as no part of a whole can ever equal the whole)!!

This is a huge contradiction!

How can you expect a woman to see God in you, when you yourself can not see God in others (including her), claiming only a Brahamgyani is capable of doing so?? Are you saying all married women are Brahamgyanis? And If she IS capable of seeing God in you, which in your case might be extremely difficult but if she does, you know that makes her very much higher than you spiritually!!!! (And yet you think it makes her somehow lower than you.. Making no sense at all - you are looking at this from a sense of entitlement - like you deserve to be treated like a God just for being male hahhaa man you have seriously missed the mark!!) You are commanding that a woman sees you AS God, when you don't even posses the qualities of a Gurmukh as per Gurbani instruction, let alone our actual Creator! 
If she does somehow see God in you, but you do not see God in her, It means she is actually living qualities of a Gurmukh, while you are not.  
In other words SHE would be higher status than you spiritually speaking... LOL

And seeing God in others does NOT mean obedience to, or submission, or bowing down to them, or even waiting on them hand and foot.  I see God in my neighbour because of all the good she does.  Does it mean I am obedient to her? No way!  We both have our own minds and opinions on things.  So even if a wife does see God in her husband, it doesn't mean she must be obedient to him or serve him all day.  And she would also be seeing God in all others as well.  

Where did you ever get the idea that Gurbani instruction is written only for a Brahamgyani? LOL What a lame excuse!!!  You say you are in grade 3 of spiritual school, please don't pull those of us in grade 6 or 7 back to grade 3 with you!!! By your own admission you are very low stages spiritually.  Please don't try to pull others down to your level, when they are already at the level of seeing God in ALL. Or at least willing to TRY to see God in ALL...while you are still comparing women to rats and insects! LOL

I can't belive that you actually think Gurbani is telling women to look at men as a God over them and that simply being male you are "entitled" to be worshiped as a God by women. And then you put women down as a "downgrade to males" and "half human" LOL It's your own spiritual progression you are hindering...

Edited October 18, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[paapiman]

Please listen to Vidya Martand Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale. 

Acquiring the keys to heaven is equivalent to wife's obedience towards her husband (spiritual one).

http://kam1825.podbean.com/e/ali-and-fatima/

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[CdnSikhGirl]

On October 18, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ragmaala said:

I do not want my wife to worship me .

But one thing that I do want is that she stays faithful and chaste in marriage, and is good in imparting Sikh values to kids.

 

Ten thousand thumbs up!! And she will also want the same from you!! But remember faithful means one thing keeping it to marriage and chaste means none at all... So which way u want it? Lol

[CdnSikhGirl]

On January 18, 2016 at 7:16 AM, paapiman said:

Please listen to Vidya Martand Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale. 

Acquiring the keys to heaven is equivalent to obedience of a wife towards her husband (spiritual one).

http://kam1825.podbean.com/e/ali-and-fatima/

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Spiritual one yes... All of us are soul brides and only real husband is Waheguru. This is all humans male and female both.  But the real mind bender is that there really is only one consciousness - our separate identities the "humai" or ego identity is not real. The consciousness behind every one of us is the same ONE consciousness. So who is being obedient to who? Is the character in the play being obedient to the actor? Is the dream character being obedient to the dreamer?? In both cases (used also in Gurbani to describe our plight) of course neither can even know that they are in fact the other.  It's ALL an illusion....

This thread started out about physical wife and husband though and is not the same thing.  Certainly both husband and wife should obey each other's wishes. If there is conflict they should work it out together. Nobody should be ordered around in marriage. If that's how you personally want a marriage I wish you luck.  I fear there won't be love as it's hard to really have a loving relationship when one person has a power relationship over the other. It's why we always say that boss / employee or doctor / patient etc are wrong to be in relationship. Because any authority or power of one over the other in a sexual relationship will mean one will take advantage of the other and there will be imbalance. Love can't happen in that instance --- maybe infatuation and lust over the other persons authority could happen. It's why some employees long to sleep with a boss. They figure they can get promotions etc. Sex becomes something like a bargaining chip for advancement. That should never happen in marriage. 

 

[Soulfinder]

Really good thread veer ji.

[dalsingh101]

How comes certain people (who expect their wives to view them as gods) haven't incorporated Charitrio Pakhyaan and its message into their analysis? 

What if a women finds herself married to a fudhoo bundha? An abusive husband? An erratic type. An unreasonable person. A bully. A weak willed coward etc. etc. Do you not know that this happens quite frequently?

Only a fool would view such a person as a god.

[tva prasad]

15 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

How comes certain people (who expect their wives to view them as gods) haven't incorporated Charitrio Pakhyaan and its message into their analysis? 

What if a women finds herself married to a fudhoo bundha? An abusive husband? An erratic type. An unreasonable person. A bully. A weak willed coward etc. etc. Do you not know that this happens quite frequently?

Only a fool would view such a person as a god.

The "pati-parmeshwar" concept is more about salvation than anything else, to be honest. It is a way in which a woman can keep her mind under control and persevere towards enlightenment. 

It is a way in which a woman can loose her ego. She agrees to her husband and serves him with devotion resulting in one-pointed focus, only on her husband. This devotion becomes a barrier against kaam. As she continues to serve him, she forgets herself in the devotion thus she looses her ego. During the ancient times, women were not permitted to read spiritual texts so they were liberated through this way. 

One must try to understand this ancient philosophy from a spiritual point of view as it is spiritual in its essence. Even if the husband is abusive, etc. a wife can still be liberated as she is liberated by her devotion rather than the man, himself. However,  a husband should always strive to be a good husband for his wife, none the less. 

[dalsingh101]

3 hours ago, tva prasad said:

The "pati-parmeshwar" concept is more about salvation than anything else, to be honest. It is a way in which a woman can keep her mind under control and persevere towards enlightenment. 

It is a way in which a woman can loose her ego. She agrees to her husband and serves him with devotion resulting in one-pointed focus, only on her husband. This devotion becomes a barrier against kaam. As she continues to serve him, she forgets herself in the devotion thus she looses her ego. During the ancient times, women were not permitted to read spiritual texts so they were liberated through this way. 

One must try to understand this ancient philosophy from a spiritual point of view as it is spiritual in its essence. Even if the husband is abusive, etc. a wife can still be liberated as she is liberated by her devotion rather than the man, himself. However,  a husband should always strive to be a good husband for his wife, none the less. 

This frequently doesn't happen. All sorts of thing can mess this up. From innate tendencies, to learnt behaviour during childhood. CP instructs men to grasp women's minds. Most blokes who are expecting women to worship them are going to be VERY disappointed in my opinion. 

[tva prasad]

16 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

This frequently doesn't happen. All sorts of thing can mess this up. From innate tendencies, to learnt behaviour during childhood. CP instructs men to grasp women's minds. Most blokes who are expecting women to worship them are going to be VERY disappointed in my opinion. 

As @paapiman has mentioned on this thread that, as it is a child's duty to "worship" their parents, in a sense, even so is the wife's duty to worship her husband. She is not doing it for the husband but rather herself. No one expects a woman to worship them, it is rather a duty for women, in this concept. A parent does not expect their children to worship them nor a teacher expects worship from a student, it is the duty of the other party. 

Different strategies have been developed over time to keep the human mind in check. It is quite evident that the male and female minds work differently, hence different techniques have been prescribed. This technique works rather well for the female mindset. In my humble opinion, this is not oppression of women or a technique aimed to make men feel superior, it is rather a way to reach the ultimate goal of enlightenment. Even if the husband is abusive,  etc. this technique still works. 

As a wife is the central point of a householder's lifestyle, without her there wouldn't be such a lifestyle. It is easier for her to follow this technique, more so during the olden times when women were housewives. 

At the end of the day, a woman gets to choose her own actions so it's completely up to her to choose this path or not. 

[dalsingh101]

2 hours ago, tva prasad said:

As @paapiman has mentioned on this thread that, as it is a child's duty to "worship" their parents, in a sense, even so is the wife's duty to worship her husband. She is not doing it for the husband but rather herself. No one expects a woman to worship them, it is rather a duty for women, in this concept. A parent does not expect their children to worship them nor a teacher expects worship from a student, it is the duty of the other party. 

Different strategies have been developed over time to keep the human mind in check. It is quite evident that the male and female minds work differently, hence different techniques have been prescribed. This technique works rather well for the female mindset. In my humble opinion, this is not oppression of women or a technique aimed to make men feel superior, it is rather a way to reach the ultimate goal of enlightenment. Even if the husband is abusive,  etc. this technique still works. 

As a wife is the central point of a householder's lifestyle, without her there wouldn't be such a lifestyle. It is easier for her to follow this technique, more so during the olden times when women were housewives. 

At the end of the day, a woman gets to choose her own actions so it's completely up to her to choose this path or not. 

That's way too simplistic. It's like Fred West's children worshipping him. Or some other pedo who happens to have kids. It's mad. If people haven't figured out that not all parents/spouses are benevolent creatures, and that they too can have serious issues for one reason or another they must be living in some sort of psychological cave. 

 

You know, if I met an apna , who had a decent sister or daughter who somehow ended up with some abusive husband (this does happen in our community), and his advice to her was to worship the fudhu like a god - I'd have absolutely zero respect for them as a man. I wouldn't even want to see their face. I bet most who would promote this would be proper momma's boys too. And I'm not idealising females either, I know plenty can be proper self-absorbed c**ts. 

[Singh123456777]

Tbh, a lot of men these days are pussy ass bitches who dont even deserve to be called men.  

[dalsingh101]

28 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Tbh, a lot of men these days are pussy ass bitches who dont even deserve to be called men.  

And I would bet that many of these in our community would try and hide behind the concept of their wife blindly seeing them as gods, rather than go through the arduous process of increasingly their manliness. If more blokes strove to do this, we wouldn't have half the problems we have out in the west in my opinion. 

Some people have such unrealistic expectations of women (and I bet it is driven from lack of experience in that department), it's no wonder certain apneean say 'sod this' and run of with Tom, Dick and Flannah. Thank Waheguru for CP which helps us balance out our understanding of inter-gender relationships in an earthy, realistic way!

Three cheers for CP!!

[paganvegan]

Sikhs are meant to view God as their husband and not the other way around. God is our husband regardless of our gender. Men don’t deserve to be treated or viewed as God, for God is Perfect and men are imperfect. Men only deserve respect from women if they respect women first. If a man beats his wife she should beat him too. If he swears at her she should also swear back at him. If he drinks so should she, if he sleeps around a woman  MUST ALSO DO THE SAME and sleep around as much as she can. She should divorce him as soon as possible and take her kids with her if he is ever abusive towards them. Mostly, in the punjabi culture men beat their wives because their wives  view them as God. Women should always view their husbands as Shytes and kick and bad mouth them from day one of their marriage lol 

Sikhism believes in equal rights for both men and women. There is no gender bias in this religion, if there is, it is due to not following sikhi.